Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2019, 03:40:35 PM »
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I'm sorry, but we cannot meaningfully proceed with this conversation if you refuse to acknowledge how this works. None of the quotes you provided come even close to substantiating your position. All you've done is define "level" within the context of RET, and "explained" the consequences of tilting a spirit level. Meanwhile, your misunderstanding is in understanding how it happens, not that it does.

All of the quotes directly addressed, how it happens… I know exactly how the bubble moves… it moves when an external force is applied to it, that is the point the refences make and that make your calculations irrelevant because they are based on

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Knowing this, we can apply basic classical mechanics to estimate the time the bubble would take to traverse the 2.5cm tube if this, and nothing else, were the factor responsible for the bubble's movement.

Your calculations are based on gravity and nothing else working on the level, but as I pointed, gravity is not what moves the bubble. Gravity is what determines where the bubble lands when it is stationary. Your calculations have nothing to do with anything, because it is external force…something other than gravity that actually makes the bubble move.
And the fact that the bubble moves by external force, is the key issue here.  With gravity, when you change the position of the spirit level, the bubble moves because the relative gravitational force changes.  With UA, when you move the level, there shouldn’t be any change in the relative force applied so there should not be any movement to the bubble. 

Not only are your calculations irrelevant, they are also wrong. It is the sensitivity of the level which determines how “fast” the bubble moves.  And the sensitivity is determined by the radius of the vial and to a lesser extent, the length of the level.  Without taking those into account, your calculations are meaningless. They don't even take the most important factors into account.

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The sensitivity of the vial determines how quickly the bubble moves when one end of the spirit level is lifted… Higher and lower sensitivity is achieved by changing the shape of the vial.

http://www.hultafors.com/about-our-products/spirit-levels-a-higher-level/what-is-a-spirit-levels-sensitivity/

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Statements like "fluids are more sensitive to gravitational pull than solids" only serve to further illustrate your inability to understand simple physics, and that's long before we even start discussing FET

Yes, liquids are more sensitive to gravity. Although gravity acts on equal amounts of mass the same way, gravity acting on 1 kg of solid may not be capable of changing its shape or move, whereas the same force on 1 kg of liquid may cause it to flow.

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As always, I suggest an experimental approach if you want to broaden your understanding. Take a spirit level and try using it in a moving elevator, particularly as it accelerates and decelerates. Observe its impact (or lack thereof) on the bubble until you've reached your conclusions.

I know what would happen in an accelerating elevator.  The bubble will always be at the highest level of the vial, but unless I am holding it level, it will not be in the middle.  What's your point? 

Oddly enough, I have the opportunity to “experiment” with levels on a regular basis.  Just did this weekend when we were camping and trying to level the camper.  The battery was dead on the drill so we had to jack it up manually.  The bubble didn’t move at all for about ten minutes and then with one turn of the jack jumped immediately from hardly visible on the left side to directly in the middle.  That’s because we have crappy level.  By the logic of your calculations, and your lack of understanding of why a bubble moves in a spirit level, I guess if we sat there and waited long enough, the bubble would have just moved on its own and the camper would have levelled itself through UA.

And notwithstanding everything I have said, you still have not explained how UA could be responsible for moving the bubble in a spirit level.  Before answering that, keep in mind that the bubble will always migrate to the highest level of the vial, but the highest level is the middle only when it is level.  How does UA act upon a spirit level in such a way that it causes the bubble to move to the middle?


Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2019, 03:51:14 PM »
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The difference in gravity between two sides of a non-level spirit level are far too small to have an effect here

That makes no sense.  If the difference in gravity between two sides of a non-level spirit level were too small to have an effect, then how do you know it is not level?  Something is effecting it enough to show that its not level, and if a spirit level works by gravity then it stands to reason that that "something" is gravity.

When it is not level, what force is keeping the bubble from migrating to the middle? 

Not to mention the fact that NASA, manufacturers and people who use spirit levels as professionals disagree with you. 

Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2019, 09:36:31 PM »
A spirit level does work because of gravity, but that's not what makes the bubble rest in the middle.
If the level is...level then the force of gravity would be the same across the liquid. That's what makes "water find its level".
But why would the bubble be in the middle? That's because the tube is slightly curved so the bubble rests in the middle.
If the level is at an angle then the highest point is no longer in the middle of the tube so the bubble moves.
It's not because a difference in gravity from one side of the level to the other.
This is how I understand it working:



When the level is level the highest point of the tube is in the middle so that's where the bubble goes.
When the level is tilted the highest point of the tube isn't in the middle so the bubble is to one side.

Obviously the curve is exaggerated in that diagram.

This is because of the force of gravity but if the force was replaced by the force of UA then why wouldn't it work just the same?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2019, 10:49:10 PM »
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When the level is level the highest point of the tube is in the middle so that's where the bubble goes.
When the level is tilted the highest point of the tube isn't in the middle so the bubble is to one side.

Obviously the curve is exaggerated in that diagram.

This is because of the force of gravity but if the force was replaced by the force of UA then why wouldn't it work just the same?

The point that you both seem to be missing is that gravity is not what makes the bubble move...it is what determines where the bubble lands when the level is stationary.  In the RE model, gravity is what determines that the bubble lands at the highest point of vial.  Why would UA do that?  How does UA maintain the bubble in the middle?

And for the record, I am not saying that it wouldn't, I just don't see how it would and so far Pete has only attacked anything that I have said and deflected answering the question.

Try this as a thought experiment.

Imagine a spirit level at an angle accelerating upwards at an angle at the constant rate of UA.  What happens to the bubble?  Nothing.  It will float at the top of the vial, but will never move to the middle.  That would be true of both UA and gravity.

Then imagine accelerating the low end at a faster rate than UA  What happens to the bubble?  It moves to the middle. 

Then imagine returning the low end to the original rate of acceleration (remember again this is a thought experiment  ;))  With gravity, once you have it level, it stays that way until you move it. Once you move it and gravity determines where the bubble falls, it stays there. But what happens with UA?

One of two things...the low end falls again which would indicate that in order to maintain level a force greater than UA is required.  How can that be?

Or it remains level.  What causes it to remain level?  The only thing I can think of is that because the whole thing is accelerating at the same rate,  the UA force is equal along the whole spirit level and maintaining the bubble in the middle.

Two problems with this. First, if that is true, it is no longer analogous to gravity, according to Pete, because in the RE model "level" doesn't mean that the force of gravity is equal across the whole spirit level.  Something else is at work in both models apparently and so far, I haven't been offered any viable alternatives.

Secondly, if equal UA force across the whole spirit level is what maintains it at level, does that mean when it wasn't level, the force was not equal? How can that be if UA is a constant, consistent force that effects everything equally at all times?

Do you see the problem?  I hope that we can all agree at least that in order for the bubble to land in the middle when the level is tilted, you have to move the level.  In the RE model it lands in the middle and stays there because you have changed the level of gravitational pull across the length of the level and made it equal.  In the UA model, you aren't changing the level of “gravitational” pull across the length of level and making it equal...because it already was equal.

Pete wants to have it both ways.  Gravity and UA are analogous but one is a constant consistent force that effects everything equally at all times regardless of position or location and one is not a constant consistent force whose effect on anything is dependent on location and position.

That is not what analogous means.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 03:10:19 AM by pricelesspearl »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2019, 07:13:08 AM »
The point that you both seem to be missing is that gravity is not what makes the bubble move...it is what determines where the bubble lands when the level is stationary.
We're not "missing" it - you're just wrong when you claim it. Gravity causes the liquid to move, which in turn moves the bubble. Sure, you can apply an external force to briefly move the bubble out of its place, but gravitational forces will soon push it back into equilibrium. That state of equilibrium is the only thing that matters here. A spirit level is largely useless when it's not stationary, save for a few bizarre edge cases.

Two problems with this. First, if that is true, it is no longer analogous to gravity, according to Pete, because in the RE model "level" doesn't mean that the force of gravity is equal across the whole spirit level.
This isn't a problem - the difference you're fixating on is imperceptibly tiny. I already explained to you just how tiny it is, and why it's impossible for it to be of significance here.

But hey, if we're fixating on tiny differences - since the level is straight in shape and a Round Earth is curved, it is impossible for all points of the spirit level to be equidistant from the Earth's centre of gravity. Therefore, the gravitational forces will not be equal across the whole spirit level. Of course, this is of no significance, but it's yet another way in which your claim fails to maintain consistency with RET.

Something else is at work in both models apparently and so far, I haven't been offered any viable alternatives.
I already pointed out you ignored celestial gravitation, but I still don't think that will be very useful to you when you're so confused about mainstream physics. You can't successfully challenge either model without understanding it.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 07:18:53 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2019, 11:42:19 PM »
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This isn't a problem - the difference you're fixating on is imperceptibly tiny. I already explained to you just how tiny it is, and why it's impossible for it to be of significance here

The difference I am fixated on is the difference between where the bubble is before you move the level and the where the bubble lands after you move the level.  If the difference is visible, then obviously the change is perceptible

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I already pointed out you ignored celestial gravitation

Celestial bodies are in motion and would create a fluctuating level of gravitational force, like the moon on the ocean.  When a level is level at high tide, and it is not moved in the meantime, it is still level at low tide.

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But hey, if we're fixating on tiny differences - since the level is straight in shape and a Round Earth is curved, it is impossible for all points of the spirit level to be equidistant from the Earth's centre of gravity

It's not impossible at all. Take a look at the attachment.



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Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2019, 07:10:57 AM »
The difference I am fixated on is the difference between where the bubble is before you move the level and the where the bubble lands after you move the level.  If the difference is visible, then obviously the change is perceptible
I already explained to you why your hypothesis is incorrect. If the difference in magnitude of gravitational force was what causes the bubble's displacement, and we assume RET is correct, it would take at least 13 minutes for it to settle. This does not occur in reality. Either RET is wrong or you're mistaken. Since an explanation that's consistent with RET is readily available, I propose that you're mistaken.

Once again, what's being contested is not that spirit levels work. They do. The problem is that you don't have a clue about why they work, and refuse to accept an explanation or to test your hypothesis.

Oh, and since I apparently missed this before:

It will float at the top of the vial, but will never move to the middle.
The "top of the vial" is "the middle". It is impossible for the bubble to simultaneously float to a position and not do so.

The tube of a spirit level is curved. That's why it works.

It's not impossible at all. Take a look at the attachment.
You were talking about the gravitational force across the whole spirit level, not two points on the spirit level. Swing and a miss.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 07:26:11 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2019, 08:56:22 AM »
In the RE model, gravity is what determines that the bubble lands at the highest point of vial.  Why would UA do that?  How does UA maintain the bubble in the middle?
OK. The key thing is why does water "find its level"?
It's because of gravity.
Let's think about why a ball rolls down a hill.
There are two forces acting on it:



The downward arrow is gravity, the arrow pointing up the slope is friction.
A component of the downward gravity force acts down the slope, if that force is bigger than the friction force then the ball rolls, otherwise it doesn't.
The ball will roll until the forces are in balance. If the ball is on a level then the only force is gravity, as that is acting perpendiclar to the surface it's on there is no force sideways so it doesn't move. Gravity pulls the ball down, the surface it's resting pushes back up with an equal and opposite force (assuming a solid surface) so the ball is stationary.

Newton's first law - an object will remain at rest or moving at a constant velocity unless acted on by a force.

Water is a liquid. You can think of it as a jumble of balls, molecules, and the fact it's a liquid means the bonds between them are not strong and the molecules can move past one another.

This means that if you tip a container full of liquid you are effectively causing a slope so the same as above happens. The molecules tumble down the slope until the slope levels out and there is no more sideways force acting on them. I'm probably simplifying a bit there but this is why liquid "finds its level", the more viscous a liquid is the longer it will take to settle as the molecules move past one another more slowly.

If the tube in a spirit level was completely cylindrical then there would be no bubble, there'd just be a line of air at the top. The bubble is caused by the curve of the tube as I've shown above. If you tilt the tube the water stays level and because of the curve the bubble moves to the "top" of the inclined tube.

The cause of all this is the force of gravity pointing downwards.
If you replace the force of gravity by a force due to acceleration the same thing would happen. The whole premise of the equivalence principle is that if you're in a stationary lift on earth or a lift in zero g accelerating upwards at 9.8m/s2 you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Both cause you and everything else to experience a downwards force. That means if you jump then you fall back down and water will find its level - and that's what makes a spirit level work.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2019, 12:07:02 PM »
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But the force of gravity on either end is the same on both ends too, so what's the difference?
I think this would work fine with UA.

The force of gravity is the same on both ends only if it is level.  The reason the bubble migrates to the low end is because the force of gravity is stronger on the low end.  That is how a spirit level works...the bubble in the middle indicates that the gravitational force is equal across the length of the spirit level. 

With gravity, when the bubble is not in the middle, it indicates an unequal gravitational force across the length of the spirit level. With UA, then, when the bubble is not in the middle, that would mean an unequal force created by acceleration across the length. But if both ends are accelerating at the same rate, how can that be?
I don't understand this...

Are you claiming the top of any body of water is not being held in place by the same force that is holding the bottom of the body of water in place? Would not the top of the body of water be experiencing more force in order to keep it in place?

Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2019, 03:01:04 PM »
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The cause of all this is the force of gravity pointing downwards.
If you replace the force of gravity by a force due to acceleration the same thing would happen. The whole premise of the equivalence principle is that if you're in a stationary lift on earth or a lift in zero g accelerating upwards at 9.8m/s2 you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Both cause you and everything else to experience a downwards force. That means if you jump then you fall back down and water will find its level - and that's what makes a spirit level work.

I don't disagree with any of that this, but you are missing the point.  The question is why is there no difference?.  The force of gravity on a spirit level depends on its position and location. The reason the bubble moves from off center and lands center when you move it is because when you move the level you are adjusting or "realigning" how the force of gravity is acting on the vial. The force of gravity on the vial has changed.  How gravity is effecting the vial is different because its location is different.

The force of UA upon a spirit level does not depend upon its position or location. The force of UA is constant and consistent on everything at all times.  It never changes.  When you move the spirit level, you are not adjusting or "realigning" how the force of UA is acting on the vial. How UA is effecting the vial is no different just because its location is different. The force of UA on the vial before you move the level is exactly the same.as the force of UA on the vial after you move the level.  The force of UA on the vial never changes no matter where it is at or what position it is in so why does moving the spirit level change where the bubble lands?

Sorry to keep repeating, but it is the central point to the issue and everybody just seems to ignore it.

The changed force of gravity after you move the position of level is why the bubble lands in the middle.  There is no change in the force of UA after you move the position of the level, so there is no reason (that I can think of) that UA should be responsible for the bubble landing in the middle.

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Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2019, 03:19:30 PM »
You keep restating your mistake over and over. No one's ignoring it. We told you time and time again why it's wrong.

The significant change is in direction (relative to the spirit level's horizontal plane), not magnitude. The change in direction is analogous between the two models. The change in magnitude is irrelevant (but also analogous thanks to CG). There is no difference because, by definition, the two models are indistinguishable in this context.

Stop saying the same thing over and over and work on understanding what I and AATW have explained to you.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 03:42:52 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2019, 04:06:21 PM »
The question is why is there no difference?.

Because gravity is a force acting downwards. By "downwards" I mean relative to your position, assuming you are standing up.
It's actually towards the centre of mass of the earth and on a globe earth downwards is relative to your position, but to all intents and purposes gravity acts downwards.
Were the earth flat, there was no gravity and it was UA creating the force we call gravity then that force would act downwards and be equivalent.
The headline is both produce a force which acts in a downwards direction relative to your position.

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The reason the bubble moves from off center and lands center when you move it is because when you move the level you are adjusting or "realigning" how the force of gravity is acting on the vial. The force of gravity on the vial has changed.  How gravity is effecting the vial is different because its location is different.

Well, there would be a very slight difference because one end is higher than the other but that difference is so trivial that it's not what causes the bubble to move. Pete has done the maths for you.
The real difference is that the spirit level is no longer parallel to the ground so the force of gravity is no longer perpendicular to the tube - again, see my diagrams.
You have changed the orientation of the tube, the level of the liquid is still parallel to the ground because of the downward force of gravity but because the tube is not level the bubble is now off centre because the top of the tube is not at the centre.
This is true whether the force is caused by gravity or UA.

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Sorry to keep repeating, but it is the central point to the issue and everybody just seems to ignore it.

No-one is ignoring you but Pete actually does have a good grasp of physics - better than me, I think. And he is right here.
It's not the changed force of gravity, it's the changed orientation of the tube. The force acting downwards remains constant whatever is causing the force.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2019, 05:47:25 PM »
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You were talking about the gravitational force across the whole spirit level, not two points on the spirit level. Swing and a miss.

If two points on a straight line are equal distance from a third point, all a points are.  It's inherent in the definition of "straight"., but I've filled it in on a new attachment for your benefit.

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The significant change is in direction (relative to the spirit level's horizontal plane), not magnitude.

In the RE model, a change in direction results in a stronger gravitational pull.  The lower something sits, the stronger the pull. So if lowering one end of the level causes the bubble to visibly move,  the change is gravitational force is perceptible.

But if you want to continue arguing that UA and gravity are analogous, and that "level" with gravity does not mean that that force of gravity is equal across the level, that is fine with me.

That just means that "level" with UA does not mean that that the force of UA is equal across the level.  Congratulations, you just blew a big fat hole in the whole UA theory which requires UA to be constant and consistent.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 06:12:15 PM by pricelesspearl »

Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2019, 08:15:25 PM »
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Were the earth flat, there was no gravity and it was UA creating the force we call gravity then that force would act downwards and be equivalent.
The headline is both produce a force which acts in a downwards direction relative to your position.

The point is that it would never change.  So there would be no reason for something to change due to its effects.  Something  doesn't move unless some force greater than what is already working on it causes it to move.  The UA force always stays the same, there is the same amount of force on the level before you move as there is after you move it, so there should be no reason that UA is what caused the bubble to land in the middle.


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Well, there would be a very slight difference because one end is higher than the other but that difference is so trivial that it's not what causes the bubble to move. Pete has done the maths for you.

Nobody is saying that the gravitational pull between the low end and the high end is what makes the bubble move.  External extra force is what makes the bubble move.  The level of gravitational force is what determines where it lands after you move it.  I have made that same point multiple times.  At any rate, the difference between the low end and the high end is significant enough to keep the bubble on the low end and prevent it from moving.  That is not "trivial"

Pete's math is irrelevant. It is based on the assumption that gravity (and only gravity) is moving the bubble in a stationary vial. It is based on the premise that I am arguing that it is the difference in gravitational pull between the low end and the high end is what makes the bubble move, but as explained above, that is not, nor has it ever been my position. If the vial is stationary and only gravity is working on it, of course bubble is not going to move. The gravitational force remains the same so there is no reason it should. The movement of the bubble I am talking about is the difference between where the bubble begins and where it lands after you move it..  And it makes no sense to say that movement is “trivial” when it is obviously enough to make the bubble move. 

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You have changed the orientation of the tube, the level of the liquid is still parallel to the ground because of the downward force of gravity but because the tube is not level the bubble is now off centre because the top of the tube is not at the centre
This is true whether the force is caused by gravity or UA
.

How does UA "know" what center is"?  What is it about UA that makes it able to detect when the top of the tube is at the center? 

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The force acting downwards remains constant whatever is causing the force.

No, gravitational force is not “constant” It varies depending on location and position. Gravitational force gets stronger the closer you get to the center of the earth. That’s Physics 101 and there is no reason to think that same concept would not apply to a level when you move it in a direction closer the center of the earth. It is subject to the same gravitational laws as everything else.  And again, it makes no sense to say that the change in gravitational force is “trivial”, when you can clearly see the that the bubble moves when you position it differently.

In the RE model, level is defined as when all points are perpendicular to gravity. How is it defined in the FE model?  Can someone please complete this sentence...With UA, something is level when.....???  That is all I am looking for. What does level mean with UA? 

« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 12:29:21 AM by pricelesspearl »

Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2019, 09:05:48 PM »
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The real difference is that the spirit level is no longer parallel to the ground so the force of gravity is no longer perpendicular to the tube - again, see my diagrams.

I get all that.  The bubble will always seek the highest point of the vial, but only when it is level will the highest point be in the middle.  I understand that perfectly. But why does the bubble seek the highest with UA?  In the RE model, it seeks the highest level because the gravitational pull is equal. And it is only equal because you have changed the orientation.

Is that the same with UA...it seeks the highest level because the UA force is equal and it only becomes equal when it is in the "correct" orientation?  If so, that begs the question was the UA force unequal before it was in the correct orientation?

That is the question Pete does not want to answer.

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Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2019, 11:54:33 AM »
If two points on a straight line are equal distance from a third point, all a points are.  It's inherent in the definition of "straight".
No. That's the definition of a "circular arc". Instead of drawing lines of different lengths and marking them as "4.25in", grab a ruler and draw a few points equidistant from a central point.

In the RE model, it seeks the highest level because the gravitational pull is equal. And it is only equal because you have changed the orientation.
This continues to be incorrect. Saying it many times won't make you less wrong. In case you forgot - if you were right about this, and the change in magnitude was the significant factor, the process of the spirit level reaching equilibrium would take at least 13 minutes. It does not do that.

If so, that begs the question was the UA force unequal before it was in the correct orientation?
That's not what "begging the question" means. Also, once again, the significant change here is that in direction, not in magnitude.

I also answered your question multiple times, despite pointing out that it's inconsequential: you're looking for celestial gravitation.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 12:02:27 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2019, 02:16:28 PM »
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No. That's the definition of a "circular arc". Instead of drawing lines of different lengths and marking them as "4.25in", grab a ruler and draw a few points equidistant from a central point.

I didn’t draw anything.  I used an editing program that automatically measures.  If any two points on a straight line are equal distance from a third point, then by definition all points in between are also equal.  If that were not the case, at least one point in between would have to be higher or lower than the initial points…and it would no longer be a straight line.  Look at the most recent iteration.  That line does not look like an arc to me.   Feel free to measure the distances yourself.  It should be easier to do when the exact endpoints are visible.

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This continues to be incorrect. Saying it many times won't make you less wrong. In case you forgot - if you were right about this, and the change in magnitude was the significant factor, the process of the spirit level reaching equilibrium would take at least 13 minutes. It does not do that.

So your calculations show that when an eternal force is applied to a level, which causes the bubble to move, it takes 13 minutes for the bubble to stop moving?  Is that what your calculations show?

Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2019, 02:59:21 PM »
The UA force always stays the same, there is the same amount of force on the level before you move as there is after you move it

That is also true with gravity. What has changed is the orientation of the tube

The level of gravitational force is what determines where it lands after you move it.

The direction of the gravitational force is what determines where it lands.

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The movement of the bubble I am talking about is the difference between where the bubble begins and where it lands after you move it..  And it makes no sense to say that movement is “trivial” when it is obviously enough to make the bubble move.

This and your comment that "why does the bubble seek the highest with UA?" makes me think maybe your error is you're too fixated on the bubble moving. It's not really the bubble that moves, it's the liquid. The bubble is simply the part of the tube the liquid isn't in. As I said before were the tube straight there wouldn't be a bubble, there would just be a line of air. It's not that the bubble moves to the top, more that the liquid moves to the bottom, The bubble is simply the bit where the liquid isn't. It moves as a consequence of the liquid moving.

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How does UA "know" what center is"?  What is it about UA that makes it able to detect when the top of the tube is at the center?
UA doesn't know anything, nor does gravity. Both simply produce a force which (for the purpose of this conversation) acts in a downwards direction.
When you move the tube it's not the gravity (or UA) which changes, it's the orientation of the tube. Again, see my diagrams. The liquid is pulled downwards, the surface of the liquid forms a straight line - that straight line is perpendicular to the force pulling the liquid down.

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No, gravitational force is not “constant” It varies depending on location and position. Gravitational force gets stronger the closer you get to the center of the earth. That’s Physics 101

It is but irrelevant for the purpose of this discussion. What's relevant is that gravity points downwards. As does the force caused by UA in FET

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In the RE model, level is defined as when all points are perpendicular to gravity. How is it defined in the FE model?  Can someone please complete this sentence...With UA, something is level when.....???  That is all I am looking for. What does level mean with UA?
With UA, something is level when all points are perpendicular to the force created by UA. UA accelerates the earth upwards, the force points downwards. As it does with gravity. Yes yes, technically it's towards the centre of mass of the earth but that is to all intents and purposes downwards.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 03:01:31 PM by AllAroundTheWorld »
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2019, 03:19:19 PM »
I used an editing program that automatically measures
I don't care how you did it - you're contradicting basic geometry. Fix it. The fact that you're spitting out PDFs out of Nitro Pro and that you can't even center your lines properly does not make you look better - it makes you look worse.

For the avoidance of doubt - a set of all equidistant points from another point, for a given distance, is a circle. A subset of that is a circular arc. Neither of those are straight. Therefore, your claim that a straight line will have all its points be equidistant from another point cannot be true.

So your calculations show that when an eternal force is applied to a level, which causes the bubble to move, it takes 13 minutes for the bubble to stop moving?  Is that what your calculations show?
No. I already told you what they show.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 03:23:44 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

Re: Spirit Levels on a Flat Earth
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2019, 03:42:43 PM »
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With UA, something is level when all points are perpendicular to the force created by UA. UA accelerates the earth upwards, the force points downwards. As it does with gravity. Yes yes, technically it's towards the centre of mass of the earth but that is to all intents and purposes downwards

Why is that true?  The amount of UA force on the level is the same whether it is perpendicular or not.