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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2014, 04:15:36 AM »
Innocent people don't get convicted in America? Didn't know that one.
Sean's claim seems to be that someone that's found innocent would be called to court again, and again, and again. Of course, we know how rarely that happens, so that argument won't have much sway on us, but imagine how convincing it must sound to someone who only thinks of it as a principle! Then again, with the way the American judiciary works, that probably would happen...
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Offline Sean

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2014, 04:18:07 AM »
The principle is sound though
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2014, 04:20:03 AM »
The principle is sound though
By "the principle" you must mean something completely different from what I described, unless you simultaneously agree and disagree with the idea.
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Offline Blanko

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2014, 04:28:32 AM »
Wait, what? The issue is that potentially very guilty people have to attend court more than once, even in light of new evidence?

Jeez, you people are putting more strain on regular citizens through jury duty than you are on your criminals.

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2014, 04:53:41 AM »
Didn't we have a discussion a few weeks ago where the Eurofags criticized our justice system for being too hard on criminals?  And now they're complaining that it's too soft?

Offline Blanko

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2014, 04:58:30 AM »
Exactly. It's simultaneously too soft and too hard. And you people say your system is fine.

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2014, 05:11:18 AM »
Blanko, I hate the goddamn system!  But until someone comes along with changes that make sense, I'll stick with it.

Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2014, 11:11:51 AM »
I think her good looks have probably influenced this trial.

If an ugly tattooed bloke was on trial he would probably still be in jail.

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Offline Hoppy

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2014, 12:45:33 PM »
I think her good looks have probably influenced this trial.

If an ugly tattooed bloke was on trial he would probably still be in jail.
The English courts would take that stance, Amercan courts are not like that.
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Offline spank86

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2014, 01:29:41 PM »
I think, in the US, you can appeal a guilty verdict, but that's it. Which makes sense

Well that's not precuisely true, In the Louise Woodward case the district prosecutor appealed to the supreme court after an appeal court reduced her sentence to involuntary manslaughter.

Seems to me like that parallels this situation quite closely.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2014, 01:56:40 PM »
Punishments are too hard. Process is not thorough enough.

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Offline beardo

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2014, 02:06:05 PM »

"Time for a trip to Italy..."
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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2014, 04:31:51 PM »
I think her good looks have probably influenced this trial.

If an ugly tattooed bloke was on trial he would probably still be in jail.
The English courts would take that stance, Amercan courts are not like that.

I think you mean the Italian court.

American courts allow cameras into their court rooms (the UK has started to do that now as well unfortunately) which may make a court case a bit like the x-factor.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2014, 04:49:51 PM »
(the UK has started to do that now as well unfortunately)
But transparency and accountability.
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Offline Sean

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2014, 08:38:02 PM »
Amanda Knox a victim here. The poor girl was basically prosecuted for being a 20-year-old woman with an active sex and social life. The way she was portrayed in court and treated by the system is disgusting. "A sex game gone wrong" theory was actually just made up I guess? Also there was no new evidence in the case. The Italians ruined her life, she spent 4 years in prison and their still is a stigma attached to her name.

She wasn't sad enough, some thought. She couldn't weep for her friend while being bashed on an international stage for her ridiculous behavior of being 20 and in college and partying a bit.

She was told she had HIV and had to give the names of people she had sex with, but that was just a trick by prosecutors. Heh nice.
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Offline Tau

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2014, 09:51:43 PM »
In Murica we operate by the idea that you can only be tried for a law once, and that's how it should be.
And if the judiciary makes a mistake, or new evidence comes into light, we should just go "You may have gotten away this time, but we'll get you yet!". 10/10 best system let's implement immediately.

Yes, that is exactly how it should work. Because in America we are innocent until proven guilty, and "if at first you don't succeed, try try again" is kind of a dumb way to go about things when you're talking about people's lives. If you are proven not guilty you shouldn't spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder. That's idiotic. I'd rather a few guilty people get away than a few innocent people be jailed unjustly.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2014, 10:10:39 PM »
Yes, that is exactly how it should work.
That will require some backup.

Because in America we are innocent until proven guilty
Yeah, that's how it works here too.

and "if at first you don't succeed, try try again" is kind of a dumb way to go about things when you're talking about people's lives.
It's a good thing that's prohibited by EU regulations, then.

If you are proven not guilty you shouldn't spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder.
I certainly agree. That's exactly how we do it. It seems to me that the problem here is that the vocal American legal experts of this forum never bothered to read the European Convention on Human Rights and assumed that just because extraordinary cases exist, the rules are completely different for us than they are for you.

That's idiotic. I'd rather a few guilty people get away than a few innocent people be jailed unjustly.
But the European system is better at that. If this is your objective, you should strive to understand other Western legal systems and adopt the good things out of them. Currently, the American judiciary is the laughing stock of the West, what with your ability to just make up a crime when you want to jail someone. Granted, the UK, Australia, Canada, and other Anglosphee countries are guilty of that to some extent, too, but your case is the most extreme. In fact, the very priority of the American system seems to be to put everyone that even looks guilty in jail (or to declare war on them because they're TRRRRRISTS).
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 10:13:56 PM by pizaaplanet »
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Offline spank86

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2014, 10:18:18 PM »
Isn't it true in all nations that either side can appeal to a higher Court if they lose in one of the lower?

And isn't this just an example of that?

Or am I missing something?

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Offline markjo

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2014, 11:04:23 PM »
Isn't it true in all nations that either side can appeal to a higher Court if they lose in one of the lower?
You appeal guilty verdicts, not innocent verdicts.
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Offline spank86

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Re: Amanda Knox guilty again.
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2014, 12:39:08 AM »
Isn't it true in all nations that either side can appeal to a higher Court if they lose in one of the lower?
You appeal guilty verdicts, not innocent verdicts.
Well YOU do sure, but can't the prosecution appeal to a higher court?