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Offline Rushy

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #380 on: June 07, 2014, 08:56:04 PM »
I think the real question here is: what the hell is currency?

Imports/exports? If so, if we had a unified world government would currency even be necessary?

Ultimately it is just something that is used for barter on a high frequency basis. No economy has ever truly moved past a barter system, where you expect to receive roughly the same amount you give.

You still need some kind of abstract means of indicating wealth. Otherwise you're back to swapping sheep for hens for wood for corn for bricks for clothes etc

There's no real difference between sheep for hens and sheep for dollars, in fact, from a purely objective standpoint the person receiving the hens is getting a much better deal than the person getting dollars. Chances are high that the person who traded for hens actually needed/wanted hens. No one needs or wants dollars, they want the things that they can trade for dollars.


Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #381 on: June 07, 2014, 09:04:02 PM »
There's no real difference between sheep for hens and sheep for dollars,

Personally I consider size and expiration risk a difference. Dollar fold neatly into your pocket. Dollars don't die. Etc.

in fact, from a purely objective standpoint the person receiving the hens is getting a much better deal than the person getting dollars. Chances are high that the person who traded for hens actually needed/wanted hens. No one needs or wants dollars, they want the things that they can trade for dollars.

Not necessarily. I have pigs. You have hens. I want hens. Lets trade. I get hens. You get pigs. You are a Jew/Muslim/Vegetarian. I win. You lose.

People want currency for the fluidity of trade it offers them.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #382 on: June 07, 2014, 09:11:20 PM »
Personally I consider size and expiration risk a difference. Dollar fold neatly into your pocket. Dollars don't die. Etc.

Dollars get miffed up rather easily. I think I'd have a harder time destroying a hen then I would a dollar.

Not necessarily. I have pigs. You have hens. I want hens. Lets trade. I get hens. You get pigs. You are a Jew/Muslim/Vegetarian. I win. You lose.

Then why would I trade for pigs in the first place? What kind of logic runs in your head? It needs a firmware update.

People want currency for the fluidity of trade it offers them.

It makes trading easier, but not necessarily more fluid, especially between entities trading vast amounts of wealth.

Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #383 on: June 07, 2014, 09:21:33 PM »
Then why would I trade for pigs in the first place? What kind of logic runs in your head? It needs a firmware update.

Because the person selling fire wood wants shoes. And the person selling shoes wants candles. And the person selling candles wants horses. And the person selling horses wants pigs.

Ghost of V

Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #384 on: June 07, 2014, 09:25:52 PM »
Then why would I trade for pigs in the first place? What kind of logic runs in your head? It needs a firmware update.

Because the person selling fire wood wants shoes. And the person selling shoes wants candles. And the person selling candles wants horses. And the person selling horses wants pigs.

wut

Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #385 on: June 07, 2014, 11:50:30 PM »
And there our story ends.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #386 on: June 08, 2014, 12:06:43 PM »
Then why would I trade for pigs in the first place? What kind of logic runs in your head? It needs a firmware update.

Because the person selling fire wood wants shoes. And the person selling shoes wants candles. And the person selling candles wants horses. And the person selling horses wants pigs.
Honestly, I don't think most people did that kind of complex bartering.  Leave that to the merchants.

Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #387 on: June 08, 2014, 12:28:59 PM »
Honestly, I don't think most people did that kind of complex bartering.  Leave that to the merchants.

How can a merchant operate without some kind of abstract means of indicating value?

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #388 on: June 08, 2014, 01:41:25 PM »
Honestly, I don't think most people did that kind of complex bartering.  Leave that to the merchants.

How can a merchant operate without some kind of abstract means of indicating value?
Being a merchant means you can estimate value.
Ex:
Merchant knows that Appleville has lots of apples but almost no pigs.
Merchant also knows that pig town (a few days trip) has lots of pigs.  He also knows that their apple pie festival is next week. 

So the merchant will get apples and trade them for pigs which he will then trade for more apples.  Or vice versa. 
As a merchant he knows the supply and demand of the area he peddles so he can anticipate who would buy what.
Sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses.

Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #389 on: June 08, 2014, 03:33:10 PM »
So the merchant will get apples

How does he get apples? Does he just take them like a theif?

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #390 on: June 08, 2014, 03:42:54 PM »
How does he get apples? Does he just take them like a theif?

I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #391 on: June 08, 2014, 08:46:39 PM »
So the merchant will get apples

How does he get apples? Does he just take them like a theif?
What Rushy said.
Or he trades them with something else.  Or someone owes him a debt.

Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #392 on: June 08, 2014, 10:17:58 PM »
Or someone owes him a debt.

How do you record that debt?

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #393 on: June 08, 2014, 10:48:22 PM »
How do you record that debt?

On a piece of paper, maybe? How is this relevant?

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Offline Sean

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #394 on: June 09, 2014, 01:37:58 AM »
This is when a thread should be locked
Quote from: sandokhan
You are rushying to unwarranted conclusions

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #395 on: June 09, 2014, 10:13:17 AM »
This is when a thread should be locked
Incorrect.
Bitcoins have not crashed in value.

Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #396 on: June 09, 2014, 09:34:54 PM »
How do you record that debt?

On a piece of paper, maybe? How is this relevant?

And how do you stop me writing "Rushy owes me 6000 sheep" on a piece of paper?

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #397 on: June 09, 2014, 10:27:36 PM »
How do you record that debt?

On a piece of paper, maybe? How is this relevant?

And how do you stop me writing "Rushy owes me 6000 sheep" on a piece of paper?
It's called a signature.
We still use it.

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #398 on: June 10, 2014, 04:27:51 PM »
Honestly, I don't think most people did that kind of complex bartering.  Leave that to the merchants.

How can a merchant operate without some kind of abstract means of indicating value?
Being a merchant means you can estimate value.
Ex:
Merchant knows that Appleville has lots of apples but almost no pigs.
Merchant also knows that pig town (a few days trip) has lots of pigs.  He also knows that their apple pie festival is next week. 

So the merchant will get apples and trade them for pigs which he will then trade for more apples.  Or vice versa. 
As a merchant he knows the supply and demand of the area he peddles so he can anticipate who would buy what.
Sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses.

I think Pigville should rethink its choice of festival.

Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #399 on: June 10, 2014, 09:16:44 PM »
It's called a signature.
We still use it.

What's to stop me faking your signature? What's to stop me adding a few zeros?

And what if I want to sell the debt. How do I prove to someone else that it's actually your signature?