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Other Discussion Boards => Technology & Information => Topic started by: Rushy on January 28, 2014, 02:23:09 AM

Title: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 28, 2014, 02:23:09 AM
As titled ask plain and concise questions about the Bitcoin protocol or bitcoins in general.

The other thread basically turned into people who haven't looked into Bitcoin trying to discuss Bitcoin with more people who haven't looked into Bitcoin. I think it's important at least some of you learn about cryptocurrency now rather than later.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Снупс on January 28, 2014, 02:42:05 AM
What are Bitcoins and why do they matter?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rama Set on January 28, 2014, 02:43:21 AM
How often is the algorithim difficulty upped and who has the job of making that crucial decision?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Alchemist21 on January 28, 2014, 02:58:42 AM
Why are you so obsessed with bitcoins?

And isn't asking for donations basically being a cyber-beggar?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 28, 2014, 03:11:24 AM
What are Bitcoins and why do they matter?

Well first I'd like to point out a major difference between Bitcoin (the protocol/network) and bitcoins, the currency. Bitcoin is a system that solves, from an engineering standpoint, the Byzantine Generals' Problem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_fault_tolerance). What this ultimately means is the Bitcoin is a network in which everyone can agree with each other without knowing each other over just about any line of communication. Essentially Bitcoin does not require the Internet per se, but the Internet makes what it does a lot easier. The protocol itself is an autonomous Peer-to-Peer client that communicates with other clients like itself. In no way can any one person modify their client and damage the network. For example I could modify my client to say some nonsense, like I have 10 billion bitcoins. Other clients wouldn't agree with mine, and therefore mine would be ignored by the majority.

Bitcoins on the other hand, refers to the currency, which is actually just a result of the network keeping track of keys attached to addresses. The currency itself is still revolutionary, as it is a financial system in which transactions are not censored and can not be reversed. A bitcoin can not be duplicated and it is impossible to spoof the network into thinking that you have money when you really don't. The currency itself is the next logical step in the evolution of finance. The technology Bitcoin has put forward will do to finance what the Internet did to communication.

How often is the algorithim difficulty upped and who has the job of making that crucial decision?

Bitcoin mining (the process of adding transactions to the network) is, quite simply, SHA-256 hashing. The network protocol determines what SHA-256 hash it is looking for, this also determines how hard it is to find the hash. Every 2040 blocks the network calculates how much time it took to reach 2040 blocks. It should take 20,400 minutes, or two weeks, to find 2040 blocks. If the protocol computes that it has been less than two weeks, it increases the difficulty, if it has been more than two weeks, it will decrease the difficulty. Bitcoin difficulty does not have to up or down, although it is very rare to have the difficulty go down. It should always, on average, take about 10 minutes for the network to find a block.

Why are you so obsessed with bitcoins?

And isn't asking for donations basically being a cyber-beggar?

1. Everyone needs a hobby. I also genuinely think Bitcoin technology is the future.

2. Yes.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: spoon on January 28, 2014, 04:16:56 AM
My economics class has taught me that an effective currency has six basic characteristics:

-Portability
-Durability
-Divisibility
-Uniformity
-Limited Supply
-Acceptability

Please explain how bitcoin is "the future" by qualifying it as superior to other currencies, such as paper, in each of these six categories.

If their are downsides to bitcoin, explain how the benefits outweigh those downsides.

If improvements need to be made to bitcoin before it surpasses other currencies in effectiveness, state what those improvements are and how they are going to happen.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 28, 2014, 04:41:06 AM
-Portability

Bitcoin itself is available anywhere you have Internet access. You can print out your own physical notes with verification codes for physical portability outside of Internet zones. It is important to note that you shouldn't make transactions with people you don't trust if you don't have Internet access.

-Durability

Bitcoins can not be destroyed. They can, however, be lost. Exactly how many are lost is unknown.

-Divisibility

Bitcoin is divisible up to 10^8. If for example a single bitcoin is worth $1 million, then you could still send cents in a transaction.

-Uniformity

This is actually an interesting concern. Because a bitcoin can be traced back to all of its transactions, it is possible to "taint" a bitcoin by using it for something illegal. For example if a person with bitcoin address x smuggled drugs, and later made a legitimate purchase somewhere and sent his bitcoin to address y, address y now has a technically "tainted" bitcoin. This can be avoided using high transaction addresses or coin tumblers. For example an exchange may deal with thousands of bitcoins every day, so it becomes impossible to determine who received what bitcoin from the exchange.

In other words, bitcoin addresses can be tracked, but individual bitcoins can not.

-Limited Supply

Well this is certainly interesting. The US dollar doesn't have a limited supply, but Bitcoin does, most economists don't agree Bitcoin is the better currency, so clearly your class taught you a concept most economists don't agree on.

Anyway, there will only ever be 21 million bitcoins. Right now there are ~12 million. Miners bring more into existence until the year ~2140, where the protocol will no longer create new coins.

-Acceptability

This is a problem with Bitcoin, but it is being solved over time. Overstock and TigerDirect now take Bitcoin whereas they didn't before. Bitcoin can overcome the "no one uses it so no one uses it" problem, it will just take time.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Vindictus on January 28, 2014, 04:57:24 AM
Why is there so much turmoil in the Reddit bitcoin community? The subreddit regularly appears in subredditdrama.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 28, 2014, 05:01:32 AM
Why is there so much turmoil in the Reddit bitcoin community? The subreddit regularly appears in subredditdrama.

Put fanatical libertarians, anarchists, capitalists, investors, and developers all in tiny ass room and watch the fireworks.


There are a lot of different kind of people in Bitcoin and I can tell you it used to be a lot worse. People that think taxes are theft, banks are demonic, think Bitcoin is made by the NSA and controlled by the NWO/Illuminati etc. Alternate currencies are always coming in trying to stir shit up. Litecoin (a coin I consider to not be secure) trying to pull people over to their side, etc. Bitcoin is a perfect storm of politics and money. Drama is unavoidable.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: spoon on January 28, 2014, 05:06:42 AM
Disregarding 'Acceptability' for obvious reasons:

Portability: Paper currency printed by a central government wins. Hassles like internet access and printing + verification codes make it much more complicated than what is already in place.

Durability: What do you mean by lost? I don't want to cast judgment before I know what you mean. Physical money can obviously be lost. That amount is not easy to determine either.

Divisibility: Alright, point bitcoin.

Uniformity: At a glance, the idea of tracking monetary transactions seems to be an invasion of privacy. Besides that, I don't see anything wrong with "tainted" money. I'd be willing to bet that a substantial portion of the currency in circulation has been used in an illegal transaction. What exactly happens to a tainted bitcoin?

Limited Supply: There is currently a limited supply of USD in circulation. That amount changes, but there isn't some cave that hasn't been discovered full of trillions of hundred dollar bills. If I understand correctly, the amount of bitcoin in circulation is dependent on miners and an algorithm. Correct me if I'm wrong. To answer the question of which is more effective in terms of limited supply, it is a matter of opinion. Do you trust an algorithm more than you trust the people that make decisions about how much money is in circulation?

--

All things considered, I can't see it sweeping the world any time soon.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 28, 2014, 05:17:30 AM
Portability: Paper currency printed by a central government wins. Hassles like internet access and printing + verification codes make it much more complicated than what is already in place.

E-mail is more complicated than good old fashioned snail mail, but the benefits of learning how to use it outweigh the benefits of keeping snail mail. Will things other than bitcoin exist? Of course. But using Bitcoin is more advantageous in the long run than not using it.

Durability: What do you mean by lost? I don't want to cast judgment before I know what you mean. Physical money can obviously be lost. That amount is not easy to determine either.

As in never to be recovered. If I have 10 bitcoins on a hard drive and I light the hard drive on fire, those bitcoins are gone. Forever. This can be avoided by keeping backups and not forgetting your encryption password.

Uniformity: At a glance, the idea of tracking monetary transactions seems to be an invasion of privacy. Besides that, I don't see anything wrong with "tainted" money. I'd be willing to bet that a substantial portion of the currency in circulation has been used in an illegal transaction. What exactly happens to a tainted bitcoin.

Because addresses can be generated at free will, privacy isn't a large concern (it is a concern, though). You can generate a new address every time you receive any sum of coin. There are 2^256 possible addresses. To give you an idea of how big that number is, if I hooked a computer up to the sun (for energy) and this computer generated 1 billion addresses every second... the sun would burn out before it generates even half of the addresses.

Limited Supply: There is currently a limited supply of USD in circulation. That amount changes, but there isn't some cave that hasn't been discovered full of trillions of hundred dollar bills. If I understand correctly, the amount of bitcoin in circulation is dependent on miners and an algorithm. Correct me if I'm wrong. To answer the question of which is more effective in terms of limited supply, it is a matter of opinion. Do you trust an algorithm more than you trust the people that make decisions about how much money is in circulation?

I can tell you exactly how many bitcoins will be generated. Can you tell me how many dollars will be printed? The federal reserve can print how ever much it wants whenever it wants, the Bitcoin protocol, however, can only generate what is allowed.

Asking if I "trust" the protocol is irrelevant. Do I trust 2 + 2 to equal 4? Bitcoin is open source, you're welcome to look at the protocol's code yourself.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Alchemist21 on January 28, 2014, 05:33:07 AM
Is it possible for 2 people to select who the third-party is in a transaction?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: spoon on January 28, 2014, 05:34:11 AM
E-mail is more complicated than good old fashioned snail mail
Irrelevant.

Will things other than bitcoin exist? Of course. But using Bitcoin is more advantageous in the long run than not using it.
Justify this statement.
As in never to be recovered. If I have 10 bitcoins on a hard drive and I light the hard drive on fire, those bitcoins are gone. Forever. This can be avoided by keeping backups and not forgetting your encryption password.
As far as destruction of currency is concerned, paper money wins. It can be regulated if the amount lost is significant enough to be noticed. As you have said, the amount of bitcoin in circulation is much more rigid. Backups, encryption passwords? Is this a joke? It's my money and I need it now!
Because addresses can be generated at free will, privacy isn't a large concern (it is a concern, though). You can generate a new address every time you receive any sum of coin. There are 2^256 possible addresses. To give you an idea of how big that number is, if I hooked a computer up to the sun (for energy) and this computer generated 1 billion addresses every second... the sun would burn out before it generates even half of the addresses.
What is the process involved in "generating a new address"?
I can tell you exactly how many bitcoins will be generated. Can you tell me how many dollars will be printed? The federal reserve can print how ever much it wants whenever it wants, the Bitcoin protocol, however, can only generate what is allowed.

Asking if I "trust" the protocol is irrelevant. Do I trust 2 + 2 to equal 4? Bitcoin is open source, you're welcome to look at the protocol's code yourself.
Flexibility of a currency != unlimited supply.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Пардисфла on January 28, 2014, 08:58:08 AM
If I install Bitcoin, will I get a virus?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: spank86 on January 28, 2014, 09:22:01 AM
As in never to be recovered. If I have 10 bitcoins on a hard drive and I light the hard drive on fire, those bitcoins are gone. Forever. This can be avoided by keeping backups and not forgetting your encryption password.
As far as destruction of currency is concerned, paper money wins. It can be regulated if the amount lost is significant enough to be noticed. As you have said, the amount of bitcoin in circulation is much more rigid. Backups, encryption passwords? Is this a joke? It's my money and I need it now!

Perhaps if you considered bitcoin or similar to be an online banking tool?

When compared to that a lot of the negatives in terms of losses and ease of access disappear.

Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on January 28, 2014, 02:11:19 PM
How much, roughly, (in old-skool currency) have you managed to spend with bitcoins and how much did you spend acquiring them?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on January 28, 2014, 02:43:42 PM
I can tell you exactly how many bitcoins will be generated. Can you tell me how many dollars will be printed? The federal reserve can print how ever much it wants whenever it wants, the Bitcoin protocol, however, can only generate what is allowed.
What's to stop someone from changing the protocol to allow for more bitcoins to be generated?  Also, if the number of bitcoins is to be limited, how can they generate enough for everyone to use?  What's to prevent bitcoin hoarding?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on January 28, 2014, 07:16:15 PM
Why would anyone mine bitcoins if it's cheaper just to purchase them? Conversely, what happens in 2140 when mining stops, and nobody devotes any more of their processing time to bitcoin?

Also,

You mean the equipment or the electricity? At 1.5 W/Gh/s it costs roughly $16M to churn out $4.4M in Bitcoin. The equipment itself varies, based on the tech (65nm vs 20nm) and availability (preorder vs shipping).

1. ASIC miners make a shitload of money. They are literally money printers and people are paying through the nose to grab one.

How can both of these statements simultaneously be true?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on January 29, 2014, 01:10:03 AM
The US dollar doesn't have a limited supply
Incorrect.
most economists don't agree Bitcoin is the better currency
[Citation Needed]
so clearly your class taught you a concept most economists don't agree on.
Based on what he said in his post, incorrect.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 29, 2014, 01:56:35 AM
Irrelevant.
Hardly.

Justify this statement.
Read this thread.

As far as destruction of currency is concerned, paper money wins. It can be regulated if the amount lost is significant enough to be noticed. As you have said, the amount of bitcoin in circulation is much more rigid. Backups, encryption passwords? Is this a joke? It's my money and I need it now!
You don't have to worry about paper money being destroyed because it's like monopoly money, the government can print unlimited amounts forever. Everyone knows the government is just great at regulating the economy.

What is the process involved in "generating a new address"?
I've made it a point not to get too technical in this thread, but generating a new address is basically creating a private key, public key, and a hash of the public key (which is the address). All addresses are created via SHA-256 and RIPEMD160 and start with a ECDSA key.

What that all means is that you can create as many addresses as you want. The process of address creation intrinsically has nothing to do with the Bitcoin protocol. There is no record of generated addresses or anything. Only addresses that receive or transmit bitcoins are shown on the blockchain.

Flexibility of a currency != unlimited supply.
Unlimited means there is no limit to how much can be created. Gold is limited. Bitcoins are limited. Dollars are unlimited. The government can print however many they want, and they typically do just that. It's like having an economic cheat code.

If I install Bitcoin, will I get a virus?
That depends on what client you install. You shouldn't install a client that is not open source and you should always verify the PGP signature. Why am I even telling you this? You should already know all that.

How much, roughly, (in old-skool currency) have you managed to spend with bitcoins and how much did you spend acquiring them?
I don't make a habit of talking about my personal finances on the interwebs.

What's to stop someone from changing the protocol to allow for more bitcoins to be generated?
Nothing. The problem lies in that you will be the only one to have changed your protocol. You are now a bitcoin network of 1. Congratulations on your expansive but worthless collection of Markjo-coins.

  Also, if the number of bitcoins is to be limited, how can they generate enough for everyone to use?
You can have 10^-8 bitcoin.

  What's to prevent bitcoin hoarding?
Nothing. Additionally, there is nothing wrong with hoarding.

Why would anyone mine bitcoins if it's cheaper just to purchase them?
They probably wouldn't.

Conversely, what happens in 2140 when mining stops, and nobody devotes any more of their processing time to bitcoin?
This is when transaction fees will increase. Right now transaction fees are very tiny because miners care more about the large block of coins in their reward.

How can both of these statements simultaneously be true?
Some people mine on GPUs, which use a lot of energy for very little reward. I said ASICs specifically make a shitload of money.

@Ben Franklin, either ask a question or make a real argument. I have no time for your petty one word replies.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on January 29, 2014, 02:07:11 AM
Dollars are unlimited. The government can print however many they want, and they typically do just that.
Incorrect.  The value of a dollar is, at least in part, proportional to the number of dollars in circulation.  Having too many dollars in circulation has the effect of devaluing the dollar and that generally is not considered a good thing.

Quote
What's to stop someone from changing the protocol to allow for more bitcoins to be generated?
Nothing. The problem lies in that you will be the only one to have changed your protocol. You are now a bitcoin network of 1. Congratulations on your expansive but worthless collection of Markjo-coins.

  Also, if the number of bitcoins is to be limited, how can they generate enough for everyone to use?
You can have 10^-8 bitcoin.
So you're saying that no one can ever change 10^8 to 10^12 at the source?

Quote
  What's to prevent bitcoin hoarding?
Nothing. Additionally, there is nothing wrong with hoarding.
Incorrect.  If no one is spending bitcoins, then what's the point?  Currency only has value when you try to exchange it for something else.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 29, 2014, 02:17:31 AM
Incorrect.  The value of a dollar is, at least in part, proportional to the number of dollars in circulation.  Having too many dollars in circulation has the effect of devaluing the dollar and that generally is not considered a good thing.

The only thing the value of the dollar is correlated to is how much people think it is worth. USD inflation is about ~1% a year but the Federal Reserve prints more money than 1% of the total amount in circulation in a year.

So you're saying that no one can ever change 10^8 to 10^12 at the source?

Of course they can. Bitcoin is open source, you can change whatever you want to. Getting millions of other people to change theirs too is the problem. Bitcoin is a network, there is no giant server that says "BITCOIN" on it and controls the whole network.

If no one is spending bitcoins, then what's the point?  Currency only has value when you try to exchange it for something else.

Well then, its a good thing people are spending bitcoins then, isn't it? You need to come up with some better points, markjo. I won't entertain your trolling forever.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Alchemist21 on January 29, 2014, 02:47:23 AM
You skipped my question about 3rd parties.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rama Set on January 29, 2014, 03:09:21 AM
I am not sure if tis has been covered elsewhere but what inherent properties, if any, of bitcoin makes it a secure currency against counterfeiting and money-laundering?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 29, 2014, 03:18:45 AM
You skipped my question about 3rd parties.

There is no third party in bitcoin. You have a sender and a receiver. No one else partakes in bitcoin transactions. Miners record transactions, they can not modify them in any way. You don't get to choose which blocks your transaction goes into, I'm not even sure why you would want to.

I am not sure if tis has been covered elsewhere but what inherent properties, if any, of bitcoin makes it a secure currency against counterfeiting and money-laundering?

Bitcoin can not be counterfeited as of today. If for any reason elliptic curve cryptography is broken in the future then my previous statement will no longer be true. However since cryptography is prevalent throughout the internet, bitcoins would be my least worry if elliptic curves are broken.

Money laundering is a different beast entirely. Bitcoin addresses can be traced, so it isn't exactly a good currency to use for theft or other illegal activities in the first place. That said, it has been used for money laundering. The dollar would actually win out between the two as being the best vehicle for illegal activity.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Alchemist21 on January 29, 2014, 04:16:40 AM
Oh.  I thought transactions were mediated by a 3rd party client.

As for the transactions it's good that they can't be controlled, because otherwise I could see a situation where a ring of hackers modify their client to artificially increase their number of bitcoins and use each others' clients to validate the change for the network.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 29, 2014, 05:09:52 AM
Oh.  I thought transactions were mediated by a 3rd party client.

As for the transactions it's good that they can't be controlled, because otherwise I could see a situation where a ring of hackers modify their client to artificially increase their number of bitcoins and use each others' clients to validate the change for the network.

A client that is different from the others cannot modify the others, even if there are more of them. Each version of Bitcoin is not just an updated client, it is literally a different network. This is why Litecoin, Peercoin, Dogecoin, etc. exist. They are Bitcoin clients, just with minor (or in the case of Peercoin, major) changes.

There is nothing stopping me from turning Bitcoin into RushyCoin. The problem lies in convincing everyone to use RushyCoins instead of Bitcoins, a feat no competing network has accomplished.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Vindictus on January 29, 2014, 05:13:53 AM
Can I tip you in dogecoins?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 29, 2014, 05:19:08 AM
Can I tip you in dogecoins?

I'd prefer you donate to a charity. I never seriously ask for money, the donation address below is a joke.

Unless of course you plan on giving me a billion dogecoins, I'll take that.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on January 29, 2014, 05:24:55 AM
@Ben Franklin, either ask a question or make a real argument. I have no time for your petty one word replies.
Why do you post incorrect things in a thread where you are supposed to be answering questions? You should at least disclose when you're talking about things you don't understand.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 29, 2014, 05:31:02 AM
Why do you post incorrect things in a thread where you are supposed to be answering questions? You should at least disclose when you're talking about things you don't understand.

Point out precisely why and how it's wrong and I'll correct my statement. Continue to post one-word replies with no evidence and I'll simply ignore you entirely.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on January 29, 2014, 06:03:25 AM
Point out precisely why and how it's wrong and I'll correct my statement. Continue to post one-word replies with no evidence and I'll simply ignore you entirely.
There is not an unlimited supply of US dollars. If there was, it wouldn't be a viable currency, by definition.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: spank86 on January 29, 2014, 08:03:35 AM
Point out precisely why and how it's wrong and I'll correct my statement. Continue to post one-word replies with no evidence and I'll simply ignore you entirely.
There is not an unlimited supply of US dollars. If there was, it wouldn't be a viable currency, by definition.

There's not an unlimited supply of anything, the supply of US dollars does however have the potential to be almost unlimited, far more so than bitcoin.

Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on January 29, 2014, 08:28:14 AM
There's not an unlimited supply of anything, the supply of US dollars does however have the potential to be almost unlimited, far more so than bitcoin.
...I find it far more likely that someone would find a way to exploit Bitcoin to produce infinite bitcoin than I do that the Federal Reserve would order infinite dollar bills, and that the Bureau of Engraving and Printing and would then proceed to attempt to produce infinite dollars.

Of course, I don't see either of those events at likely, just one more so. Regardless, the control of the money supply is quite closely monitored and regulated. Hence, it is not unlimited. To suggest that there is an unlimited supply, or the "potential to be unlimited" is pretty clear evidence you haven't even read some basic Wikipedia articles, let alone taken an introductory Economics class.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on January 29, 2014, 09:02:50 AM
There's not an unlimited supply of anything, the supply of US dollars does however have the potential to be almost unlimited, far more so than bitcoin.
...I find it far more likely that someone would find a way to exploit Bitcoin to produce infinite bitcoin than I do that the Federal Reserve would order infinite dollar bills, and that the Bureau of Engraving and Printing and would then proceed to attempt to produce infinite dollars.

Of course, I don't see either of those events at likely, just one more so. Regardless, the control of the money supply is quite closely monitored and regulated. Hence, it is not unlimited. To suggest that there is an unlimited supply, or the "potential to be unlimited" is pretty clear evidence you haven't even read some basic Wikipedia articles, let alone taken an introductory Economics class.
They don't need to print the money on to notes. Just type the number into a computer. In that sense US dollars are limitless. They can transfer 1000 trillion dollars into the treasury account if they like. But they won't because it would ruin the seriously good racket they have going right now.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 29, 2014, 09:25:15 AM
They don't need to print the money on to notes. Just type the number into a computer. In that sense US dollars are limitless. They can transfer 1000 trillion dollars into the treasury account if they like. But they won't because it would ruin the seriously good racket they have going right now.
That's not how money works, not even in America.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: spank86 on January 29, 2014, 09:33:18 AM
There's not an unlimited supply of anything, the supply of US dollars does however have the potential to be almost unlimited, far more so than bitcoin.
...I find it far more likely that someone would find a way to exploit Bitcoin to produce infinite bitcoin than I do that the Federal Reserve would order infinite dollar bills, and that the Bureau of Engraving and Printing and would then proceed to attempt to produce infinite dollars.

Of course, I don't see either of those events at likely, just one more so. Regardless, the control of the money supply is quite closely monitored and regulated. Hence, it is not unlimited. To suggest that there is an unlimited supply, or the "potential to be unlimited" is pretty clear evidence you haven't even read some basic Wikipedia articles, let alone taken an introductory Economics class.

I'm aware of the consequences of producing infinite money, but the potential IS there, and money can also be forged fairly effectively (even assuming you actually require a paper copy), certainly easier than a bitcoin can currently be forged assuming you have an internet connection to verify it.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on January 29, 2014, 03:11:02 PM
They don't need to print the money on to notes. Just type the number into a computer. In that sense US dollars are limitless. They can transfer 1000 trillion dollars into the treasury account if they like. But they won't because it would ruin the seriously good racket they have going right now.
That's not how money works, not even in America.
they'd have to send bonds the other way. I didn't want to make a huge detailed post just to tell Franklin that he is wrong again.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 29, 2014, 04:55:52 PM
they'd have to send bonds the other way. I didn't want to make a huge detailed post just to tell Franklin that he is wrong again.
Being wrong is not a good way to tell others they're wrong. It creates a (false?) perception that only legitimises their claims.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Alchemist21 on January 29, 2014, 05:16:38 PM
If it was truly unlimited I don't think the trillion-dollar platinum coin idea would have been shot down.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on January 29, 2014, 08:42:05 PM
How is the amount of the transaction fee decided?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on January 29, 2014, 09:16:51 PM
If it was truly unlimited I don't think the trillion-dollar platinum coin idea would have been shot down.

in the UK we have one and one hundred million pound banknotes used to legitimise the Scottish pounds.

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65436000/jpg/_65436606_1993-237a4.jpg)
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Снупс on January 29, 2014, 09:25:21 PM
What do I need to know before starting with Bitcoin? Because I went to the site and there was scary talk at the sign up and many privacy concern that I can't understand right now because I'm tired. What's the most important info for a noob?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Blanko on January 29, 2014, 09:26:42 PM
What do I need to know before starting with Bitcoin? Because I went to the site and there was scary talk at the sign up and many privacy concern that I can't understand right now because I'm tired. What's the most important info for a noob?

Don't bother.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on January 29, 2014, 10:16:30 PM
What's the most important info for a noob?
It's a pyramid scheme that's too late to be worthwhile getting into.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on January 29, 2014, 10:21:15 PM
They don't need to print the money on to notes. Just type the number into a computer. In that sense US dollars are limitless. They can transfer 1000 trillion dollars into the treasury account if they like. But they won't because it would ruin the seriously good racket they have going right now.
...Please take an Economics class. The money supply is carefully regulated, and by fucking definition is limited. If it wasn't limited, it wouldn't be currency. If there exists an organization for the primary purpose of controlling the money supply, it is not unlimited. This isn't complicated.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on January 29, 2014, 10:52:26 PM
They don't need to print the money on to notes. Just type the number into a computer. In that sense US dollars are limitless. They can transfer 1000 trillion dollars into the treasury account if they like. But they won't because it would ruin the seriously good racket they have going right now.
...Please take an Economics class. The money supply is carefully regulated, and by fucking definition is limited. If it wasn't limited, it wouldn't be currency. If there exists an organization for the primary purpose of controlling the money supply, it is not unlimited. This isn't complicated.
Who regulates the Federal Reserve?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on January 29, 2014, 10:57:20 PM
They don't need to print the money on to notes. Just type the number into a computer. In that sense US dollars are limitless. They can transfer 1000 trillion dollars into the treasury account if they like. But they won't because it would ruin the seriously good racket they have going right now.
...Please take an Economics class. The money supply is carefully regulated, and by fucking definition is limited. If it wasn't limited, it wouldn't be currency. If there exists an organization for the primary purpose of controlling the money supply, it is not unlimited. This isn't complicated.
Who regulates the Federal Reserve?
...I'd rather not have to teach you all about US political structure, so here's Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System#Accountability).
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Пардисфла on January 29, 2014, 11:00:56 PM
Why are we even arguing about this? The value of anything, including currency, is determined by what people will exchange for it. The US dollar only has value for as long as a significant number of people continue to recognise it as valuable. It may only be regulated insofar as people acknowledge the legitimacy of its regulating body.

This is true of all things, but especially fiat currencies, which have no practical value to justify their legal value. Bitcoin is no different from the US dollar in this regard.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on January 29, 2014, 11:07:34 PM
They don't need to print the money on to notes. Just type the number into a computer. In that sense US dollars are limitless. They can transfer 1000 trillion dollars into the treasury account if they like. But they won't because it would ruin the seriously good racket they have going right now.
...Please take an Economics class. The money supply is carefully regulated, and by fucking definition is limited. If it wasn't limited, it wouldn't be currency. If there exists an organization for the primary purpose of controlling the money supply, it is not unlimited. This isn't complicated.
Who regulates the Federal Reserve?
...I'd rather not have to teach you all about US political structure, so here's Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System#Accountability).
So who regulates the FED? The FED does. Being as Ron Paul's Federal Reserve Transparency Act failed, the bank does what the hell it likes. If it wants to make infinite money, no one can stop it. Not even Mr Obummer.

Unless of course you can point me to the bit that shows where money supply is regulated and by whom ...
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Blanko on January 29, 2014, 11:10:52 PM
How much is money worth if there is an infinite amount of it, Thork?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on January 29, 2014, 11:12:38 PM
How much is money worth if there is an infinite amount of it, Thork?
As I mentioned earlier, printing it to oblivion would render it useless and ruin their economic system. That doesn't meant they can't print as much as they want whenever they want. In reality they print as much as you can stomach.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Blanko on January 29, 2014, 11:17:50 PM
They can print as many numbers on pieces of paper as they want. That doesn't mean they'll hold the value that is expected of money.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on January 29, 2014, 11:18:43 PM
They can print as many numbers on pieces of paper as they want. That doesn't mean they'll hold the value that is expected of money.
That's called inflation.  :-B
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on January 30, 2014, 12:29:44 AM
So who regulates the FED? The FED does. Being as Ron Paul's Federal Reserve Transparency Act failed, the bank does what the hell it likes. If it wants to make infinite money, no one can stop it. Not even Mr Obummer.

Unless of course you can point me to the bit that shows where money supply is regulated and by whom ...
I don't think you understand how American politics work. The FED is not the ultimate source of power and authority.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 30, 2014, 01:23:03 AM
How is the amount of the transaction fee decided?

By everyone else's transactions fees. If everyone happens to be paying $100, you'll have to pay it too. Luckily everyone on the planet are greedy, and normally pay less than a penny.

I can be a bit more specific than that though. Bitcoin has a major disadvantage of only being able to process a maximum a 7 transactions a second (or otherwise notated as a maximum block size of 1MB). Transactions take up space in a block and transaction fees are how transactions "fight" their way into a block. Miners want money, so they pick people with the highest transaction fees. What this means is if too many people are making transactions and you have a very small fee or none at all (yes, you can choose to send bitcoins with a fee of 0) then you might not make it into a block and your transaction floats in purgatory forever (the network later rejects it entirely, you won't lose you money this way).

There is no way around this, unfortunately. It is a issue currently being discussed. Currently the only way to allow more transactions is to increase block size, in which the blockchain will start getting big, as in a few terabytes in less than a year, which is seen as detrimental to Bitcoin's status as "decentralized."

The sort of good news is that Bitcoin hasn't come close to approaching 7 transactions a second. In November 2013 it saw 3 per second.

What do I need to know before starting with Bitcoin? Because I went to the site and there was scary talk at the sign up and many privacy concern that I can't understand right now because I'm tired. What's the most important info for a noob?

That really depends on what you plan on doing with it. First off, there is no official Bitcoin site. Because Bitcoin is an open source, decentralized project, no one can claim rights to it or power over it. That said, you can trust this site, at least for now:

https://bitcoin.org/en/

Read the introduction. Watch the video. Do all of it even if you've read this thread because Bitcoin is something you need to truly understand. It has never existed before and it can't be described using any existing technology. If you still have questions after that, let me know.


@Thork, Ben Franklin, Blanko have your discussion somewhere else, you are derailing the thread.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: spoon on January 30, 2014, 01:33:13 AM
You've (somewhat) described what it is and how it functions, but in what aspect is it superior to the dollar? What makes it worth it to make a switch? What is so awful about our current currency?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 30, 2014, 01:57:15 AM
You've (somewhat) described what it is and how it functions, but in what aspect is it superior to the dollar?

It isn't meant to be a replacement for the dollar (and it quite frankly, isn't going to). It however has a lot of benefits over the dollar. It can't be counterfeited, it has instant transactions that can't be censored, it can be readily traced, and you can be your own bank if you take reasonable steps to secure your funds. With the dollar the only way to secure your funds is to physically have them in your possession in some sort of vault, which is notably more terrible than just about anything else.

What makes it worth it to make a switch?

That really just depends on what you do with your money. If your total economic interaction involves swiping your credit card at Wal-Mart, then there is zero reason to use Bitcoin. Bitcoin shines if you need something like international transactions or instant transfers. I funded a business in Sweden without having to hassle with my bank and waiting for wire transfers to go through as time was of the essence. To me this is important enough to warrant the use of Bitcoin. Things like remittances would also be very useful if done via Bitcoin since the fees are relatively small. Bitcoin is also very attractive if your country has a dying or no currency at all of its own. No longer do countries have to default to using another country's currency just to maintain their own economy.

What is so awful about our current currency?

It's expensive to transport, secure, and handle. It can be readily counterfeited, despite billions invested in the attempt to stop such things, it cannot be handled by a lone person.  I can go on but I could have a very specific discussion about it forever. It really just depends, again, on what you use it for. Bitcoin really wouldn't help the average person, at least I don't see how it would.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Alchemist21 on January 30, 2014, 02:27:44 AM
"Being your own bank" doesn't sound like an advantage because your savings wouldn't accumulate interest.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 30, 2014, 02:31:14 AM
"Being your own bank" doesn't sound like an advantage because your savings wouldn't accumulate interest.

Bank interest is normally below the inflation threshold regardless, so chances are your savings are losing value despite gaining in numeric volume.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: spoon on January 30, 2014, 02:42:15 AM
Bank interest is normally below the inflation threshold regardless, so chances are your savings are losing value despite gaining in numeric volume.
Source?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 30, 2014, 03:48:58 AM
Bank interest is normally below the inflation threshold regardless, so chances are your savings are losing value despite gaining in numeric volume.
Source?

https://www.wellsfargo.com/savings-cds/

http://www.us.hsbc.com/1/2/home/personal-banking/savings-accounts

https://www.chase.com/savings/savings-account#!chasesavingtabs:chasesavingstab2


Just to name a few, all offer an average of 0.01%, with their "high yield" savings being around 0.05%. Inflation in a good year for any fiat currency is 1% and can sometimes be as high as 5%. Please, please point me to a bank with a savings account >1% while having less than $150,000 in savings. I will thank you, hell, I might even pay you.

With fiat currencies your savings are guaranteed to lose value.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: spank86 on January 30, 2014, 01:55:26 PM

Unless of course you can point me to the bit that shows where money supply is regulated and by whom ...

this is all getting very flat earthy  ;D

If someone did regulate the federal reserve, say the Um-bongo corporation, wouldn't you next simply ask who regulates them?


Bank interest is normally below the inflation threshold regardless, so chances are your savings are losing value despite gaining in numeric volume.
Source?

The last 30 years of reality?

Savings on normal accounts have almost never got close to inflation.

They might however have risen in value compared to other currencies so a current account in sterling may have beaten American inflation if transferred back and this is the point where bitcoin could be more profitable than normal banking.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on January 30, 2014, 04:19:30 PM
"Being your own bank" doesn't sound like an advantage because your savings wouldn't accumulate interest.

Bank interest is normally below the inflation threshold regardless, so chances are your savings are losing value despite gaining in numeric volume.

This is patently untrue. Over the history of banking, the interest rates paid on savings has been above the inflation rate. You're biasing yourself due to the trend over the past 25 years.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on January 30, 2014, 04:39:18 PM
Do you see that trend changing anytime soon? 
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 30, 2014, 05:09:48 PM
Money ain't grow on trees, son.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on January 30, 2014, 08:35:10 PM
Please, please point me to a bank with a savings account >1% while having less than $150,000 in savings. I will thank you, hell, I might even pay you.

https://www.commbank.com.au/personal/accounts/savings-accounts/netbank-saver.html

As a bonus, there's no fees, they pay 2.5% interest compounded daily.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on January 30, 2014, 10:14:57 PM
How is the amount of the transaction fee decided?

By everyone else's transactions fees. If everyone happens to be paying $100, you'll have to pay it too. Luckily everyone on the planet are greedy, and normally pay less than a penny.

I can be a bit more specific than that though. Bitcoin has a major disadvantage of only being able to process a maximum a 7 transactions a second (or otherwise notated as a maximum block size of 1MB). Transactions take up space in a block and transaction fees are how transactions "fight" their way into a block. Miners want money, so they pick people with the highest transaction fees. What this means is if too many people are making transactions and you have a very small fee or none at all (yes, you can choose to send bitcoins with a fee of 0) then you might not make it into a block and your transaction floats in purgatory forever (the network later rejects it entirely, you won't lose you money this way).

There is no way around this, unfortunately. It is a issue currently being discussed. Currently the only way to allow more transactions is to increase block size, in which the blockchain will start getting big, as in a few terabytes in less than a year, which is seen as detrimental to Bitcoin's status as "decentralized."

The sort of good news is that Bitcoin hasn't come close to approaching 7 transactions a second. In November 2013 it saw 3 per second.

So if nobody used any transaction fees, then it would just be first come/first served? If there is currently more transaction space than there are transactions, why would anyone bother with a transaction fee?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 30, 2014, 10:25:04 PM
This is patently untrue. Over the history of banking, the interest rates paid on savings has been above the inflation rate. You're biasing yourself due to the trend over the past 25 years.

Can't tell if serious.

https://www.commbank.com.au/personal/accounts/savings-accounts/netbank-saver.html

As a bonus, there's no fees, they pay 2.5% interest compounded daily.

Oh, so you are serious. Well, first off, I was quite obviously referencing US banks (or banks that operate in the US). You are referencing an AU bank that uses AUD. So let's take a look at AUD's inflation.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/inflation-cpi

No wonder that bank pays such a high interest rate, AUD has a pretty ridiculous inflation rate at 2.7% last quarter. Oops. Looks like your money still lost value. Even when inflation is at 2.2% you get the equivalent value increase of 0.3%. One quarter it was at 5%! I wouldn't dare put my savings in AUD.

So if nobody used any transaction fees, then it would just be first come/first served? If there is currently more transaction space than there are transactions, why would anyone bother with a transaction fee?

Yes and no. Miners can decide whether to include transactions with no fees in their blocks, and a lot choose not to.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on January 30, 2014, 11:29:37 PM
How many Bitcoins are from money laundering operations?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on January 30, 2014, 11:38:53 PM
Is the popularity of bitcoin responsible for the crash in gold prices recently, as libertarians look to invest in something they see as not manipulated?

Could bitcoin actually be a FED decoy so they can buy all the gold up cheap whilst you are all messing around with something that doesn't exist?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on January 30, 2014, 11:40:31 PM
Yes and no. Miners can decide whether to include transactions with no fees in their blocks, and a lot choose not to.

So if there were no transactions available with fees, would those miners just get no blocks at all?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Vindictus on January 31, 2014, 12:01:06 AM
You don't save money using a netbank saver, you use a term deposit. Interest rates are really low, but a term deposit should yield you around 3-4% p.a.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 31, 2014, 01:39:04 AM
How many Bitcoins are from money laundering operations?

This question doesn't make sense. The literal answer is that all bitcoins are a result of mining. Perhaps you could rephrase it?

So if there were no transactions available with fees, would those miners just get no blocks at all?

No, they could still get blocks, they could simply refuse to place transactions in them.

This brings me to an interesting prisoner's dilemma with Bitcoin. You can mine empty blocks, effectively stopping the network. If the miners purposely damage the network they in turn can't spend their own bitcoins on anything. If a miner has enough power to damage the network, then it stands to reason they have enough power to continue supporting it. Chances are, they gain more from supporting it than they do trying to damage it, which so far has prevented large scale attacks on the network.

Is the popularity of bitcoin responsible for the crash in gold prices recently, as libertarians look to invest in something they see as not manipulated?

I don't see how. Bitcoin is still too small to have seen any capital flight from gold solely because of it. Did it contribute? Maybe, but there's no point in me just speculating that.

Could bitcoin actually be a FED decoy so they can buy all the gold up cheap whilst you are all messing around with something that doesn't exist?

It exists in the same physical world that gold exists. I can't help you if you think you're in the matrix or something, though.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on January 31, 2014, 01:58:38 AM
How do you mine empty blocks?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 31, 2014, 02:22:13 AM
How do you mine empty blocks?

Set your miner to not to add any transactions it picks up from the network. Each miner changes these settings differently and obviously the default settings is to include as many as can fit in the block with a priority to higher fee transactions.

Also, you'll have to be solo mining, as pools aren't stupid enough to mine empty blocks. I hope you're an eccentric millionaire, because you'd have to spend about $50 million on equipment just to own a small percentage of the network and have a chance of attacking it. Cointerra alone is shipping about $40 million of equipment and that's only 15% of the network.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on January 31, 2014, 11:16:18 AM
How many Bitcoins are from money laundering operations?

This question doesn't make sense. The literal answer is that all bitcoins are a result of mining. Perhaps you could rephrase it?

Can you tell me how you exchange currencies into Bitcoins?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on January 31, 2014, 11:18:17 AM
I still don't understand how that would even cause a problem.
Does the bitcoin masters send transaction processing to random pools/individuals and thus if that pool isnt doing anything with transactions, the transaction is resent elsewhere after a timeout period?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Снупс on January 31, 2014, 05:53:57 PM
I realize this is a naïve and probably dumb question, but bear with me and humour me if you can because I'm a noob. This article (http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/4-reasons-bitcoin-hoarders-are-screwed/) (yes, I know, Cracked and whatnot) lists some of the downsides of bitcoins, and I'm mostly curious about #3 and #2.

Namely, for #3, what's stopping people from doing that? Is there a downside they'd suffer or something?

For #2—this one's mostly curiosity—how would you even go about figuring out taxes from bitcoins? Is it literally just converting what you spent to what bitcoins were worth at the time you spent it, or...?

Again, probably stupid questions, but I don't know much about bitcoins.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rama Set on January 31, 2014, 06:33:30 PM
For #2-You are talking about a capital gains/loss on currency transactions.  It should be analogous to trading in any other foreign currency.  You would have an unrealized gain/loss, which is the difference between the value of bitcoin you hold at market value and what you paid for it (book value).  The realized gain/loss in what you pay tax on and is the same calculation on unrealized gain/loss, but only for net bitcoins converted to your native currency.

You could set up a business or corportation to handle your bitcoin and then be able to write off transaction fees, miners, and electrical bills plus all other related expenses.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on January 31, 2014, 08:27:57 PM
Rama is correct. Doing the accounting for bitcoin wouldn't be any different than working with any other capital asset like shares.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 01, 2014, 02:33:53 AM
Can you tell me how you exchange currencies into Bitcoins?

Through various online exchanges or in person using a site called Localbitcoins. Each one has its positives and negatives. Coinbase is certainly the easiest but it is primarily for US residents. Assuming you live in the UK, Bitstamp would probably be the best option. People who use Localbitcoins normally charge a 10% premium simply because the risk they take meeting in person and exchanging large volumes of cash.

I still don't understand how that would even cause a problem.
Does the bitcoin masters send transaction processing to random pools/individuals and thus if that pool isnt doing anything with transactions, the transaction is resent elsewhere after a timeout period?

I've read this question over and over but I still have no idea what you're asking. Please rephrase it.

Namely, for #3, what's stopping people from doing that? Is there a downside they'd suffer or something?

Yes and no. Like I was saying in an earlier post, having 51% of the network would cost you upwards of $100 million, meaning a group of really devoted very, very rich people could tank Bitcoin.

The funny thing is, if you own 51% of the network, at current bitcoin prices you would make about $2 million... a day. To most sane people that isn't a small amount of money, especially to be taking in on a per diem basis. Why the hell would you crash a network that is rewarding you with $2 million a day?

By the time anyone with enough money and time to do this (i.e. governments), Bitcoin will cost billions (possibly more) to overtake. I'm not worried about this, some conspiracy theorists might be, though.

For #2—this one's mostly curiosity—how would you even go about figuring out taxes from bitcoins? Is it literally just converting what you spent to what bitcoins were worth at the time you spent it, or...?

This has not been ruled on by the IRS yet. "Best guesses" include treating Bitcoin as a capital asset (because no country on the planet currently recognizes it as currency). The IRS really, truly doesn't know because it has never encountered this before. See Rama's explanation of capital asset taxation.

Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on February 01, 2014, 03:42:50 AM

I still don't understand how that would even cause a problem.
Does the bitcoin masters send transaction processing to random pools/individuals and thus if that pool isnt doing anything with transactions, the transaction is resent elsewhere after a timeout period?

I've read this question over and over but I still have no idea what you're asking. Please rephrase it.
You said that to mine an empty block, (which is bad for the network) a miner must not add transactions to the network.  What does this mean?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 01, 2014, 03:47:54 AM
You said that to mine an empty block, (which is bad for the network) a miner must not add transactions to the network.  What does this mean?

Basically all miners are default programmed to take any transactions they pick up from the network and add them to the block the miner is currently working on, with priority given to transactions with higher fees.

A miner can instead, choose to ignore them. All of them. This will result in him mining an empty block, a block that does not confirm any transactions whatsoever. If a miner that has enough computer power to do this over and over again, Bitcoin comes to a halt and the network will no longer function.

This is a theoretical possibility, but not a real concern. A miner with enough power to stop the network would probably continue to support the network because the miner would make more money supporting Bitcoin than destroying it.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on February 01, 2014, 02:02:17 PM
Quote
This has not been ruled on by the IRS yet. "Best guesses" include treating Bitcoin as a capital asset (because no country on the planet currently recognizes it as currency). The IRS really, truly doesn't know because it has never encountered this before. See Rama's explanation of capital asset taxation.

As I understand it, the UK government is treating bitcoins like gold.

See, this is one area which doesn't conern me about bitcoins. Regardless of the value, you can just take x% of the coins as taxes.

For instance, if someone buys something for 1Bc, then you owe 0.2Bc in Value Added Tax.

The only problem would be that it isn't easy to track which transactions are made, but we have an identical problem with cash-in-hand work and transactions.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on February 01, 2014, 02:25:31 PM
You said that to mine an empty block, (which is bad for the network) a miner must not add transactions to the network.  What does this mean?

Basically all miners are default programmed to take any transactions they pick up from the network and add them to the block the miner is currently working on, with priority given to transactions with higher fees.

A miner can instead, choose to ignore them. All of them. This will result in him mining an empty block, a block that does not confirm any transactions whatsoever. If a miner that has enough computer power to do this over and over again, Bitcoin comes to a halt and the network will no longer function.

This is a theoretical possibility, but not a real concern. A miner with enough power to stop the network would probably continue to support the network because the miner would make more money supporting Bitcoin than destroying it.
I thought a block was a chunk of encrypted data that you just decrypted with brute force. 
Its also transactions using bitcoin?

Why would the network stop working?  Wouldn't someone else just take the transaction?  Or is the transaction so complex that it takes a long time to process? (Like mining new bitcoin)
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 01, 2014, 04:29:47 PM
As I understand it, the UK government is treating bitcoins like gold.

No major government other than Germany and Russia has let out any official statements regarding Bitcoin. Germany loves it and Russia is hostile to it.

See, this is one area which doesn't conern me about bitcoins. Regardless of the value, you can just take x% of the coins as taxes.

For instance, if someone buys something for 1Bc, then you owe 0.2Bc in Value Added Tax.

The only problem would be that it isn't easy to track which transactions are made, but we have an identical problem with cash-in-hand work and transactions.

Unless you're transacting in thousands of dollars then the easiest way is to... pretend it never happened.

I thought a block was a chunk of encrypted data that you just decrypted with brute force. 
Its also transactions using bitcoin?

Yes, blocks are what confirm transactions and add them to the blockchain. Without them, transactions would not exist.

Why would the network stop working?  Wouldn't someone else just take the transaction?  Or is the transaction so complex that it takes a long time to process? (Like mining new bitcoin)

Once you mine a block the hash target changes and miners must all start trying to mine a new block. If one exceptionally powerful miner is mining all the blocks, no one else will get any at all.

Mining new bitcoin and confirming transactions is the same thing. The new bitcoins are the miner's reward for mining blocks.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on February 01, 2014, 04:33:30 PM
Quote
Unless you're transacting in thousands of dollars then the easiest way is to... pretend it never happened.

The tax man may not see it that way.

If there's any value at all in bitcoins, you can be sure as hell the inland revenue is interested in their exchange.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 01, 2014, 05:01:26 PM
The tax man may not see it that way.

If the tax man were to have his way, you'd be adding sales tax at your yard sale.

If there's any value at all in bitcoins, you can be sure as hell the inland revenue is interested in their exchange.

Of course they're interested in it, but if I buy soap off some dinky little site with Bitcoin, I doubt they're really going to miss that 5 cents in taxes.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on February 01, 2014, 05:08:03 PM
I thought a block was a chunk of encrypted data that you just decrypted with brute force. 
Its also transactions using bitcoin?

Yes, blocks are what confirm transactions and add them to the blockchain. Without them, transactions would not exist.
So by being able to add a transaction to the blockchain is a way for the system to confirm that it's an authentic transaction?
 
Quote
Why would the network stop working?  Wouldn't someone else just take the transaction?  Or is the transaction so complex that it takes a long time to process? (Like mining new bitcoin)

Once you mine a block the hash target changes and miners must all start trying to mine a new block. If one exceptionally powerful miner is mining all the blocks, no one else will get any at all.

Mining new bitcoin and confirming transactions is the same thing. The new bitcoins are the miner's reward for mining blocks.
I see.  So the chain would get longer and longer without being processed.  Makes sense.

Question:
Couldn't someone hijack a lot of zombie PCs and use them?  I realize you'd need millions of PCs operating at 10-20% processing to the mining but do you think that would be enough?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 01, 2014, 05:20:30 PM
So by being able to add a transaction to the blockchain is a way for the system to confirm that it's an authentic transaction?

Correct. If the transaction is not on the blockchain, it doesn't exist.
 
Couldn't someone hijack a lot of zombie PCs and use them?  I realize you'd need millions of PCs operating at 10-20% processing to the mining but do you think that would be enough?

You'd need more than millions, the entire world's home computers could try to mine Bitcoin and that wouldn't be enough to damage the network. The Bitcoin network is more powerful than the top 500 super computers... combined. And it only gets stronger every day.

And even if you did have that many computers... why would you hurt the network when you could make enough money to be the richest man in the world within a year?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on February 01, 2014, 06:06:06 PM
Couldn't someone hijack a lot of zombie PCs and use them?  I realize you'd need millions of PCs operating at 10-20% processing to the mining but do you think that would be enough?

You'd need more than millions, the entire world's home computers could try to mine Bitcoin and that wouldn't be enough to damage the network. The Bitcoin network is more powerful than the top 500 super computers... combined. And it only gets stronger every day.

And even if you did have that many computers... why would you hurt the network when you could make enough money to be the richest man in the world within a year?
Wait, what?  How the hell does the network have more power than the top 500 super computers combined yet to make a dent would require all the home PCs in the world?
What, are super computers too generic for the bitcoin decryption algorithm?  Do they have have such a poor optimization compared to the actual bitcoin network?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 01, 2014, 08:13:11 PM
Wait, what?  How the hell does the network have more power than the top 500 super computers combined yet to make a dent would require all the home PCs in the world?

Super computers aren't designed to hash SHA-256 and in comparison to a specialized computer they are actually pretty slow.

What, are super computers too generic for the bitcoin decryption algorithm?

In a word: yes.

  Do they have have such a poor optimization compared to the actual bitcoin network?

Super computers are generally designed to solve an array of complex problems. Bitcoin miners are designed to solve one very simple problem and to solve it quickly.

The CPU in my computer has a much higher clock rate and more cores than most bitcoin miners out there, but a CPU is designed to solve all sorts of problems, and as a result it isn't particularly good at solving any of them. My 3770k must calculate ~13,000 operations to hash SHA-256. A specialized miner can calculate it with one.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: spank86 on February 02, 2014, 12:40:10 AM
Quote
Unless you're transacting in thousands of dollars then the easiest way is to... pretend it never happened.

The tax man may not see it that way.

If there's any value at all in bitcoins, you can be sure as hell the inland revenue is interested in their exchange.

There's money in WOW's money too...
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 02, 2014, 02:59:08 AM
There's money in WOW's money too...
You do not own WoW money at any point in time, though. You're also not allowed to sell it (partially because you don't own it).
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on February 02, 2014, 04:50:05 AM
There's money in WOW's money too...
You do not own WoW money at any point in time, though. You're also not allowed supposed to sell it (partially because you don't own it).
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on February 02, 2014, 04:56:20 AM
Wait, what?  How the hell does the network have more power than the top 500 super computers combined yet to make a dent would require all the home PCs in the world?

Super computers aren't designed to hash SHA-256 and in comparison to a specialized computer they are actually pretty slow.

What, are super computers too generic for the bitcoin decryption algorithm?

In a word: yes.

  Do they have have such a poor optimization compared to the actual bitcoin network?

Super computers are generally designed to solve an array of complex problems. Bitcoin miners are designed to solve one very simple problem and to solve it quickly.

The CPU in my computer has a much higher clock rate and more cores than most bitcoin miners out there, but a CPU is designed to solve all sorts of problems, and as a result it isn't particularly good at solving any of them. My 3770k must calculate ~13,000 operations to hash SHA-256. A specialized miner can calculate it with one.

If Intel were smart, they'd get their R&D department to develop a very powerful miner, and then run R&D as a self-funded enterprise.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 02, 2014, 05:05:55 AM
If Intel were smart, they'd get their R&D department to develop a very powerful miner, and then run R&D as a self-funded enterprise.

Actually from an investment standpoint that'd be really stupid. A company as large as Intel can't afford to risk millions of dollars on R&D and waste precious foundry resources trying to money grab from Bitcoin, especially when their interaction alone could crash the currency because people would wonder if they can trust Intel.

Larger companies will become interested once Bitcoin is larger. Until then they won't touch it with a ten foot pole and I really don't blame them.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on February 02, 2014, 06:10:36 AM
What, in your opinion, is the biggest downside with Bitcoin compared with traditional currency?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 02, 2014, 03:59:01 PM
What, in your opinion, is the biggest downside with Bitcoin compared with traditional currency?

That it takes at least 10 minutes just to start verifying a transaction.

Transactions are, technically, instant, and most clients by default prevent you from what is called "double spending" or sending your money to two addresses. When you double spend, only one address truly gets the coins. For example, if I went to a Subway that accepts bitcoins, and I get a sandwich, I can send them an instant transaction and they'll see on the network that I have sent them 0.03 bitcoin. What I can then do is send that same 0.03 bitcoin to an address that I own. Typically whatever transaction is sent first gets the coin. Meaning if I'm going to double spend I will send them to myself first and then to Subway, so that Subway thinks I paid them. 10 minutes later when I have left the store with my sandwich, Subway is going to find out that they have been cheated.

Obviously anyone making a large payment (i.e. a car) would wait for verification. That's fine and dandy, but if something like a fast food chain is accepting bitcoins they open themselves up to at least a small percent of customers that are going to bamboozle them.

Whereas cash once I give someone a 20 dollar bill they aren't going to find out they don't have 20 dollars 10 minutes later. Unless it was counterfeit or something and they didn't check.

Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on February 03, 2014, 08:13:38 PM
If Intel were smart, they'd get their R&D department to develop a very powerful miner, and then run R&D as a self-funded enterprise.

Actually from an investment standpoint that'd be really stupid. A company as large as Intel can't afford to risk millions of dollars on R&D and waste precious foundry resources trying to money grab from Bitcoin, especially when their interaction alone could crash the currency because people would wonder if they can trust Intel.

Larger companies will become interested once Bitcoin is larger. Until then they won't touch it with a ten foot pole and I really don't blame them.

So Intel can't spend millions on something like bitcoin, but they can spend millions on lasers designed to move around individual atoms to make a stick person animation?
Also, why could a large company getting involved with bitcoin mining crash the currency?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 04, 2014, 01:32:19 AM
So Intel can't spend millions on something like bitcoin, but they can spend millions on lasers designed to move around individual atoms to make a stick person animation?

Those lasers are also used to make their chips. That video was to spur investors to see how 'great' their technology is. You really think they just blew a bunch of money on a machine to make that?

Also, why could a large company getting involved with bitcoin mining crash the currency?

Intel could too easily gain majority control of the network. No one would trust them and therefore move their money to another currency like Litecoin or Peercoin, thus crashing Bitcoin. Intel would have to completely redesign their chips to capture either of those markets, so I doubt after one investment sinkhole they'd try it again. Actually they wouldn't have to redesign the chips for Peercoin, but Peercoin's network punishes you for mining by lowering the reward as you keep going. Making large scale mining on Peercoin a bad investment.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on February 04, 2014, 11:13:44 AM
How is the dollar to bitcoin conversion calculated?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on February 04, 2014, 03:36:33 PM
So Intel can't spend millions on something like bitcoin, but they can spend millions on lasers designed to move around individual atoms to make a stick person animation?

Those lasers are also used to make their chips. That video was to spur investors to see how 'great' their technology is. You really think they just blew a bunch of money on a machine to make that?

Also, why could a large company getting involved with bitcoin mining crash the currency?

Intel could too easily gain majority control of the network. No one would trust them and therefore move their money to another currency like Litecoin or Peercoin, thus crashing Bitcoin. Intel would have to completely redesign their chips to capture either of those markets, so I doubt after one investment sinkhole they'd try it again. Actually they wouldn't have to redesign the chips for Peercoin, but Peercoin's network punishes you for mining by lowering the reward as you keep going. Making large scale mining on Peercoin a bad investment.

I think that having bitcoin crash just because a large company gets involved in mining would make it nearly impossible for bitcoin alternatives to make it to mainstream popularity. Eventually, if bitcoin gains legitimacy, I could envision the largest hardware companies, and banks controlling the vast majority of the network.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 04, 2014, 07:19:33 PM
How is the dollar to bitcoin conversion calculated?

The exchange rate at that given time. If you didn't know, the exchange rate is driven entirely by supply and demand. There is no set dollar to bitcoin value and bitcoin has no consumer index value because there aren't any items priced in bitcoin.

I think that having bitcoin crash just because a large company gets involved in mining would make it nearly impossible for bitcoin alternatives to make it to mainstream popularity. Eventually, if bitcoin gains legitimacy, I could envision the largest hardware companies, and banks controlling the vast majority of the network.

Large hardware companies and banks won't take any action until bitcoin is right in their face. They'll ignore it until it is far too late. The logical thing to do would be to crush it now, yes, but look at Blockbuster, who saw Netflix coming for miles away and didn't do squat until it steamrolled them. Bureaucracies are slow to react and technology moves fast.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 05, 2014, 01:08:17 AM
http://www.hsgac.senate.gov/download/regulation-of-bitcoin-in-selected-jurisdictions


The US Law Library of Congress Global Research Center has published a short report on how other governments are treating Bitcoin to summarize the situation and better ascertain how Congress should feel about Bitcoin.

Also, this for people who still might not understand what Bitcoin really is, Andreas Antonopoulos explains it in these quotes much better than I ever can or will:

http://www.igotbitcoin.com/66-bitcoin-quotes-140-characters-less/#axzz2sPGBU3da
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Alchemist21 on February 05, 2014, 01:24:31 AM
Who started Bitcoin and why?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 05, 2014, 01:28:04 AM
Who started Bitcoin and why?

The creator called himself by a surname (Satoshi Nakamoto) and claimed it was an experiment. No one ever found out who it really was and I can't even say that it really was an experiment. For all I know this is all a plot by the NSA.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: squevil on February 07, 2014, 07:02:41 PM
https://www.bitcoingiftvouchers.co.uk/
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: jroa on February 08, 2014, 09:41:47 PM
Why did Bitcoins drop from over $1000 to around $700 overnight?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 08, 2014, 09:44:32 PM
Why did Bitcoins drop from over $1000 to around $700 overnight?

Someone sold about 3000 bitcoins all at once and at market value. Basic supply and demand. Supply went up so the price dropped.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Hoppy on February 09, 2014, 12:56:01 AM
Whoever sold them got 2.1 million, not bad.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 09, 2014, 01:19:56 AM
Whoever sold them got 2.1 million, not bad.

They got a lot more than that. Probably closer 2.5 to 2.9 million. The price is a curve from about 950 to 770 and later dropped to 700.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: jroa on February 10, 2014, 12:58:14 PM
The price dropped because a Japanese company that was exchanging BC went off line.  The selling of 3000 BC was in response to this. 
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 10, 2014, 07:27:31 PM
The price dropped because a Japanese company that was exchanging BC went off line.  The selling of 3000 BC was in response to this.

No, it wasn't. MtGox stopped withdrawals days after the large sales.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 11, 2014, 07:28:43 PM
If a single company can enter the network and essentially ruin that economy just by their entrance, wouldn't that make bitcoin much too volatile to rely on?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 11, 2014, 10:52:54 PM
If a single company can enter the network and essentially ruin that economy just by their entrance, wouldn't that make bitcoin much too volatile to rely on?

It's irrelevant because while it certainly could happen... it won't. The chance of Intel entering the market is null.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rama Set on February 11, 2014, 11:28:12 PM
Inb42big2fail
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 11, 2014, 11:52:53 PM
Depending on someone not doing something that they very easily could is not very good protection.  Bill Gates could easily invest to cause Bitcoin to fail for no reason other than he doesn't like it (as an example).
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 12, 2014, 02:36:47 AM
Depending on someone not doing something that they very easily could is not very good protection. 

I'm not depending on them not doing it. Did you know someone can sneak up behind you at just about any point in the day and slice your throat with a kitchen knife? You're not depending on other people to not do that, you know it has an inconsequential chance of happening.

Bill Gates could easily invest to cause Bitcoin to fail for no reason other than he doesn't like it (as an example).

If Bill Gates invested it would:

1. Be on the news.
2. Bitcoin would skyrocket.

So yes please, 1 ticket for Bill Gates investment.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 12, 2014, 03:53:42 AM
There are laws to help deter that from happening.  There is nothing that really deters a company such as Intel to get into Bitcoins and ruin the system.  If Bill Gates didn't like Bitcoin, he wouldn't announce it and would likely do it through companies by giving them money to help bring about its downfall.  I'm sure if Microsoft decided to go into Bitcoin, that news wouldn't be taken too well with the opensource community.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Пардисфла on February 12, 2014, 04:01:16 AM
I'm sure if Microsoft decided to go into Bitcoin, that news wouldn't be taken too well with the opensource community.

Why?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 12, 2014, 04:19:15 AM
There are laws to help deter that from happening. 

Do you really think this is even remotely true? Bitcoin is not a regulated investment vehicle. If anyone buys more than $1 million in Bitcoin everyone knows about it. The price even goes up.

There is nothing that really deters a company such as Intel to get into Bitcoins and ruin the system.

Investors would greatly deter Intel from wasting money getting into Bitcoins. The company would lose billions, not only in research and development with manufacturing fees, but in market cap as their stock holders would sell everything for the knowledge that Intel clearly doesn't have a clue what they're doing. Since Intel probably does know what they're doing, they won't touch Bitcoin. You're stuck on a non-issue.

If Bill Gates didn't like Bitcoin, he wouldn't announce it and would likely do it through companies by giving them money to help bring about its downfall.

It really sounds like you don't even know who Bill Gates is and you just recognize the name as having a lot of money.

  I'm sure if Microsoft decided to go into Bitcoin, that news wouldn't be taken too well with the opensource community.

Like Parsifal asks, why on Earth do you think this?

Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 12, 2014, 04:42:00 AM
Microsoft hates freedom and magically turns everything into Bill Gates's fat face.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 12, 2014, 02:01:05 PM
I'm just assuming that Microsoft is seen as a bad thing due to the fact that just about everything they put on the market it highly criticized. As for the Bill Gates reference I was more focusing on the money side of it than anything else so feel free to insert name of other billionaires there if you'd like.  Relying on inaction when the action isn't deterred by the system is terrible protection.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 13, 2014, 01:31:34 AM
Relying on inaction when the action isn't deterred by the system is terrible protection.

Didn't we just discuss why it is deterred? Are you just repeating the same point over and over again?

Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 13, 2014, 02:09:20 AM
I've voiced my concern about it.  I'm not satisfied with the response but I'm not going to keep rehashing it.  Carry on.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Пардисфла on February 13, 2014, 03:13:14 AM
I'm just assuming that Microsoft is seen as a bad thing due to the fact that just about everything they put on the market it highly criticized.

Microsoft has contributed code to Linux, but that hasn't stopped it from being the most popular base for open-source OSes in the world.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: jroa on February 13, 2014, 05:00:47 AM
Everyone knows that Microsoft only contributed in order to fix compatibility problems for its own products, not to actually make the kernel better. 
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Пардисфла on February 13, 2014, 05:06:20 AM
Everyone knows that Microsoft only contributed in order to fix compatibility problems for its own products, not to actually make the kernel better. 

Irrelevant.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on February 14, 2014, 06:10:48 PM
Perhaps not Intel, but IBM has some very unorthodox R&D ventures.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 14, 2014, 11:35:12 PM
Perhaps not Intel, but IBM has some very unorthodox R&D ventures.

Uhh.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on February 25, 2014, 04:15:22 PM
How is this possible?

www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/02/25/282384924/bitcoin-exchange-mt-gox-goes-dark-after-theft-report
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Saddam Hussein on February 25, 2014, 05:48:03 PM
Hipsters just got robbed.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rama Set on February 25, 2014, 07:46:35 PM
Hipsters have to make a lot of lattes to get that 250M back
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 25, 2014, 10:24:37 PM
How is this possible?

www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/02/25/282384924/bitcoin-exchange-mt-gox-goes-dark-after-theft-report

MtGox is run by an idiot. I've been telling people that for years. When you trust your money to someone, is it that hard of a stretch to google some information about them and make sure they're not a complete dumbass? MtGox proves that the answer is "yes, it is too hard for me to look that up."
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rama Set on February 25, 2014, 10:29:04 PM
Incompetence or Ponzi scheme?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 26, 2014, 01:54:33 AM
Incompetence or Ponzi scheme?

Never attribute to malice that which is easily explained by stupidity. They've been straight dumb from the start.

(http://i.imgur.com/xMeW43a.jpg)

Really. He is really this stupid. Why anyone ever trusted the Magic the Gathering Online eXchange is beyond comprehension.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on February 26, 2014, 02:38:41 AM
How is this possible?

www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/02/25/282384924/bitcoin-exchange-mt-gox-goes-dark-after-theft-report

MtGox is run by an idiot. I've been telling people that for years. When you trust your money to someone, is it that hard of a stretch to google some information about them and make sure they're not a complete dumbass? MtGox proves that the answer is "yes, it is too hard for me to look that up."
Be that as it may, how do you steal bitcoins?  Aren't they unique in that even if you copied the files you couldn't use it without being caught?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on February 26, 2014, 05:18:50 AM
Be that as it may, how do you steal bitcoins?  Aren't they unique in that even if you copied the files you couldn't use it without being caught?

Yes, they all have unique identifiers that can be tracked, but you can launder bitcoins just like cash. Run them through an anonymous exchange or tumbler and those coins are gone forever. Bitcoins are the cash of the internet, which has its positives and its negatives. MtGox's coins weren't stolen in one big batch, either. They've been leaking coins because, again, its run by an idiot who didn't know how to run a multi-million dollar business.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 01, 2014, 01:51:52 PM
Bitcoins are the cash of the internet
No, they aren't. They are a minority curiosity but people like amazon and wall-mart and iTunes accept almost any currency across the world apart from bitcoins. They are hardly THE cash of the internet.

Frankly, I'm with the Finland on this issue.
http://r.duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forexminute.com%2Fbitcoin%2Ffinland-says-bitcoin-is-not-a-currency-but-commodity-22446

Sell your bitcoins dude, I don't think they will ever be worth much more than they are right now. Its just a giant game of the emperor's new clothes and sooner or later the trust is going to go, and that's all bitcoin has. Nothing else backs it.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 01, 2014, 03:47:06 PM
No, they aren't. They are a minority curiosity but people like amazon and wall-mart and iTunes accept almost any currency across the world apart from bitcoins. They are hardly THE cash of the internet.

That was a pretty terrible argument. It's not even worth typing up a response longer than this.

Frankly, I'm with the Finland on this issue.
http://r.duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forexminute.com%2Fbitcoin%2Ffinland-says-bitcoin-is-not-a-currency-but-commodity-22446

Sell your bitcoins dude, I don't think they will ever be worth much more than they are right now. Its just a giant game of the emperor's new clothes and sooner or later the trust is going to go, and that's all bitcoin has. Nothing else backs it.

You can't even tell me what a bitcoin is, you sure as hell can't tell me what to do with them. As soon as you learn what they are and how they do what they do, then you'll know why it's not going away. Until then, feel free to not post here ever again.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 01, 2014, 04:30:16 PM
No, they aren't. They are a minority curiosity but people like amazon and wall-mart and iTunes accept almost any currency across the world apart from bitcoins. They are hardly THE cash of the internet.

That was a pretty terrible argument. It's not even worth typing up a response longer than this.
you might at least make some effort to justify your outlandish claim that bitcoin is the cash of the internet. Its an absurd statement.

Frankly, I'm with the Finland on this issue.
http://r.duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forexminute.com%2Fbitcoin%2Ffinland-says-bitcoin-is-not-a-currency-but-commodity-22446

Sell your bitcoins dude, I don't think they will ever be worth much more than they are right now. Its just a giant game of the emperor's new clothes and sooner or later the trust is going to go, and that's all bitcoin has. Nothing else backs it.

You can't even tell me what a bitcoin is, you sure as hell can't tell me what to do with them. As soon as you learn what they are and how they do what they do, then you'll know why it's not going away. Until then, feel free to not post here ever again.
From their high of over $1,100 they are now worth about half of that. I hope you haven't put too much of your savings into them.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Saddam Hussein on March 01, 2014, 05:11:38 PM
Thork is right on this point.  Bitcoins are nowhere near as accepted as they would need to be to be called the "cash of the Internet."  They might be someday in the future, but they're definitely not now.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 01, 2014, 05:18:44 PM
you might at least make some effort to justify your outlandish claim that bitcoin is the cash of the internet. Its an absurd statement.

It is the only method of payment on the internet that can not be reversed.

From their high of over $1,100 they are now worth about half of that. I hope you haven't put too much of your savings into them.

This is what people were telling me when bitcoin hit $30 and then dropped to $2. "Wow I hope you sold them all!" You don't know what a Bitcoin is and you don't understand the technology or why it will be worth a lot, lot more in the future. Just wallow in your ignorance if you want, but feel free to wallow quietly as to not disturb me.

Thork is right on this point.  Bitcoins are nowhere near as accepted as they would need to be to be called the "cash of the Internet."  They might be someday in the future, but they're definitely not now.

He apparently doesn't understand what I meant, and neither do you. Just because someone doesn't take a currency, doesn't make it "not cash." If I didn't take physical dollar bills, would that make dollar bills not cash?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on March 01, 2014, 05:23:06 PM
you might at least make some effort to justify your outlandish claim that bitcoin is the cash of the internet. Its an absurd statement.

It is the only method of payment on the internet that can not be reversed.

From their high of over $1,100 they are now worth about half of that. I hope you haven't put too much of your savings into them.

This is what people were telling me when bitcoin hit $30 and then dropped to $2. "Wow I hope you sold them all!" You don't know what a Bitcoin is and you don't understand the technology or why it will be worth a lot, lot more in the future. Just wallow in your ignorance if you want, but feel free to wallow quietly as to not disturb me.

Thork is right on this point.  Bitcoins are nowhere near as accepted as they would need to be to be called the "cash of the Internet."  They might be someday in the future, but they're definitely not now.

He apparently doesn't understand what I meant, and neither do you. Just because someone doesn't take a currency, doesn't make it "not cash." If I didn't take physical dollar bills, would that make dollar bills not cash?

If by "I" you mean most businesses in America then yes.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 01, 2014, 05:29:32 PM
If by "I" you mean most businesses in America then yes.

Different currencies are accepted in different places. I can't pay for a pizza in America with a handful of Euros. I can't throw dollar bills at my monitor to buy things from Amazon. But oh wait, I can buy things on Amazon with my bitcoins. Sounds almost like... cash.... for the internet? Weird.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 01, 2014, 06:19:27 PM
But oh wait, I can buy things on Amazon with my bitcoins.
You can? I never heard of that. If true, that's awesome.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 01, 2014, 07:07:46 PM
But oh wait, I can buy things on Amazon with my bitcoins.
You are losing the plot. Below is a way to pay with bitcoin when you buy amazon goods.

http://wefivekingsblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/buy-on-amazoncom-with-bitcoin.html

Let me run you through the steps.
Step 1) Find the item you want on Amazon.com and determine its total cost.
Step 2) Email your order to me at sgking37922[at]gmail.com.
Step 3) After sending your email, send a sufficient number of bitcoins to cover the total cost ("Order Total") of the item from step 1, plus a one percent fee for my services, to the bitcoin address at the top left of this page.

What? I have to trust this gonk to order on my behalf, copy and paste screen shots of what I want and then give him my bitcoins + 1% AND hope he doesn't rip me off?

And how does he order the goods for you?
Quote from: http://wefivekingsblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/buy-on-amazoncom-with-bitcoin.html
In providing these services, I am (1) providing liquidity for your Bitcoins (i.e., I purchase goods on your behalf with my US Dollars in exchange for your Bitcoins),
With FUCKING US DOLLARS! >o<
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 01, 2014, 07:09:06 PM
You can? I never heard of that. If true, that's awesome.

I admit that Amazon doesn't take them directly, I have to buy an Amazon gift card from Gyft.com and then use it on Amazon. I can buy things on Amazon with Bitcoin, it just takes a few extra steps.

Overstock and TigerDirect take Bitcoin directly, so I'll give it a few years before Amazon does the same. Bitcoin has very low fees compared to PayPal and credit cards, so Amazon, being a business that has a profit margin of less than 1%, won't ignore Bitcoin forever. It just doesn't make business sense not to take it.

What? I have to trust this gonk to order on my behalf, copy and paste screen shots of what I want and then give him my bitcoins + 1% AND hope he doesn't rip me off?

And how does he order the goods for you? With FUCKING US DOLLARS! >o<

You are literally the dumbest.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 01, 2014, 07:13:19 PM
But oh wait, I can buy things on Amazon with my bitcoins.

Overstock and TigerDirect take Bitcoin directly, so I'll give it a few years before Amazon does the same.

You are literally the dumbest.
No, you are here ensuring I can't possibly claim that title.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 01, 2014, 07:25:55 PM
No, you are here ensuring I can't possibly claim that title.

Go ahead and tell me what you think is wrong with those three sentences and I'll correct your poor reading comprehension afterwards.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on March 01, 2014, 08:54:06 PM
You can? I never heard of that. If true, that's awesome.

I admit that Amazon doesn't take them directly, I have to buy an Amazon gift card from Gyft.com and then use it on Amazon. I can buy things on Amazon with Bitcoin, it just takes a few extra steps.

Overstock and TigerDirect take Bitcoin directly, so I'll give it a few years before Amazon does the same. Bitcoin has very low fees compared to PayPal and credit cards, so Amazon, being a business that has a profit margin of less than 1%, won't ignore Bitcoin forever. It just doesn't make business sense not to take it.

What? I have to trust this gonk to order on my behalf, copy and paste screen shots of what I want and then give him my bitcoins + 1% AND hope he doesn't rip me off?

And how does he order the goods for you? With FUCKING US DOLLARS! >o<

You are literally the dumbest.
I'm sorry but Thork is right.  If you have to convert bitcoins into another currency prior to using them, you aren't buying anything with them.  At best you can say "I can buy gift cards with bitcoins from this one place".  And that's all well and good if all you want are gift cards and the website doesn't go out of business.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 01, 2014, 08:57:29 PM
I'm sorry but Thork is right.  If you have to convert bitcoins into another currency prior to using them, you aren't buying anything with them.  At best you can say "I can buy gift cards with bitcoins from this one place".  And that's all well and good if all you want are gift cards and the website doesn't go out of business.

Because there are places outside the internet, obviously you can't use internet currency everywhere. If I go to the UK I have to convert my dollars to pounds. That doesn't mean the dollar isn't a currency. The Overstock CEO even stated he has to convert some of the coins in order to pay his employees. The cash of the internet is only used on the internet. Go figure.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on March 01, 2014, 09:13:15 PM
I'm sorry but Thork is right.  If you have to convert bitcoins into another currency prior to using them, you aren't buying anything with them.  At best you can say "I can buy gift cards with bitcoins from this one place".  And that's all well and good if all you want are gift cards and the website doesn't go out of business.

Because there are places outside the internet, obviously you can't use internet currency everywhere. If I go to the UK I have to convert my dollars to pounds. That doesn't mean the dollar isn't a currency. The Overstock CEO even stated he has to convert some of the coins in order to pay his employees. The cash of the internet is only used on the internet. Go figure.
Except it's not.
Amazon.com is pure internet.  There is no physical store yet they won't take bitcoins.

And it's not even just them.  I could agree with you if 10% of websites took bitcoin but they don't.  You can probably count on two hands the number of sites that accept bitcoin as payment.  Worse yet, bitcoin is too unstable to be a usable currency.  With US Dollars to British Pounds, the ratio is roughly the same for a long time.  It might change from 2x to 3x but that's it. 
Bitcoin, as we've seen, has went from 100x the US dollar to 30x in only a few days. 
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 01, 2014, 09:18:12 PM
Amazon.com is pure internet.  There is no physical store yet they won't take bitcoins.

Except that part where they ship physical products to people and pay people and... yeah. "Pure internet." Totally.

And it's not even just them.  I could agree with you if 10% of websites took bitcoin but they don't.  You can probably count on two hands the number of sites that accept bitcoin as payment.  Worse yet, bitcoin is too unstable to be a usable currency.  With US Dollars to British Pounds, the ratio is roughly the same for a long time.  It might change from 2x to 3x but that's it. 
Bitcoin, as we've seen, has went from 100x the US dollar to 30x in only a few days.

The market is growing, so the price volatility is an irrelevant argument. Volatility decreases as the amount of users increase.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 01, 2014, 11:17:58 PM
I admit that Amazon doesn't take them directly, I have to buy an Amazon gift card from Gyft.com and then use it on Amazon. I can buy things on Amazon with Bitcoin, it just takes a few extra steps.
Fair enough. That's still pretty neat.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Saddam Hussein on March 02, 2014, 01:14:16 AM
Amazon.com is pure internet.  There is no physical store yet they won't take bitcoins.

Except that part where they ship physical products to people and pay people and... yeah. "Pure internet." Totally.

Instead of actually addressing his point, you nitpick his choice of words.  What a great argument.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 02, 2014, 01:22:50 AM
Instead of actually addressing his point, you nitpick his choice of words.  What a great argument.

This entire argument is about my choice of words. Trying to be meta about the same kind of argument you commented on is laughable at best.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 02, 2014, 11:49:23 AM
I admit that Amazon doesn't take them directly, I have to buy an Amazon gift card from Gyft.com and then use it on Amazon. I can buy things on Amazon with Bitcoin, it just takes a few extra steps.
Fair enough. That's still pretty neat.
Why is it neat? Why take all the extra steps when you can just use your local currency? A currency that likely hasn't lost half its value in the last 2 months and didn't require a third party broker who took a slice?
And a gift card? How annoying. If I want something that is £7.49 what happens to my £2.51 change? Oh, Amazon hold that money for me offering no interest until my next purchase. What if instead I want to use that £2.51 to buy a cup off coffee? With regular cash, no problem.

The biggest problem with bitcoin, and it hasn't been addressed yet, is that it is only accessible to the technically astute. You can't have a currency that isn't accessible to everyone. Money as we know it, is recognised and used by everyone. Its an easier way to trade than barter, which is why we use it. Bitcoin isn't.

I'm sure Rushy will rush back saying how easy it is and that only a moron couldn't use it and blah blah, but its not as easy to use as cash. And there in, will lie its downfall.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 02, 2014, 01:49:08 PM
Why is it neat? Why take all the extra steps when you can just use your local currency? A currency that likely hasn't lost half its value in the last 2 months and didn't require a third party broker who took a slice?
Because I cannot generate my local currency by computing hashes.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 02, 2014, 02:33:39 PM
Why is it neat? Why take all the extra steps when you can just use your local currency? A currency that likely hasn't lost half its value in the last 2 months and didn't require a third party broker who took a slice?
Because I cannot generate my local currency by computing hashes.
No, you generate it by doing something useful, like going to work.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 02, 2014, 02:38:34 PM
No, you generate it by doing something useful, like going to work.
That sounds like effort. I think I'd rather get my Amazon stuff for not doing things. If I can earn physical items through no effort of my own, I'm probably gonna do it.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 02, 2014, 03:07:05 PM
No, you generate it by doing something useful, like going to work.
That sounds like effort. I think I'd rather get my Amazon stuff for not doing things. If I can earn physical items through no effort of my own, I'm probably gonna do it.
Do you see how this isn't going to work as a currency?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: beardo on March 02, 2014, 03:49:22 PM
Why are people posting in this thread?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: jroa on March 02, 2014, 04:15:10 PM
But, Thork is the only one who posts on this thread.  ???
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 02, 2014, 04:29:17 PM
The biggest problem with bitcoin, and it hasn't been addressed yet, is that it is only accessible to the technically astute.

Aww, you think I'm technically astute.

You can't have a currency that isn't accessible to everyone. Money as we know it, is recognised and used by everyone. Its an easier way to trade than barter, which is why we use it. Bitcoin isn't.

I guess the Internet is doomed to be only used by nerds and geeks. No one could possibly operate it without technical expertise and... yeah. That argument totally worked in the 90's.

I'm sure Rushy will rush back saying how easy it is and that only a moron couldn't use it and blah blah, but its not as easy to use as cash. And there in, will lie its downfall.

It is just as easy to use, it's just that a lot of people have never used it before. Algebra is easy, but it feels pretty damn hard when you're in fifth grade. It just seems like a lot to learn, it really isn't.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Blanko on March 02, 2014, 04:46:10 PM
Wait, is someone trying to argue that cryptocurrencies should replace conventional currencies?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 02, 2014, 07:37:24 PM
Wait, is someone trying to argue that cryptocurrencies should replace conventional currencies?

Yes. Everyone on the planet should switch to Bitcoin right now.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Alchemist21 on March 03, 2014, 03:10:55 AM
Bitcoin is starting to sound more like shares of stock than currency.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 03, 2014, 03:28:11 AM
Bitcoin is starting to sound more like shares of stock than currency.

Let me know when Bitcoin starts paying dividends.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on March 03, 2014, 03:37:19 AM
Bitcoin is starting to sound more like shares of stock than currency.

Let me know when Bitcoin starts paying dividends.
Irrelevant.  Lots of stocks don't pay dividends.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 03, 2014, 01:52:39 PM
Do you see how this isn't going to work as a currency?
I've been paid for work in BTC before, and I spent it on stuff. That, as far as my simple, pragmatic mind is concerned, makes it good enough to be a currency.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on March 03, 2014, 08:12:31 PM
Do you see how this isn't going to work as a currency?
I've been paid for work in BTC before, and I spent it on stuff. That, as far as my simple, pragmatic mind is concerned, makes it good enough to be a currency.

You were a fool for not holding on to it longer.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 03, 2014, 10:20:38 PM
Irrelevant.  Lots of stocks don't pay dividends.

Irrelevant. I never said they did.

I've been paid for work in BTC before, and I spent it on stuff. That, as far as my simple, pragmatic mind is concerned, makes it good enough to be a currency.

This isn't the first time I've heard this. What work was it, if you don't mind me asking?

You were a fool for not holding on to it longer.

People are idiots for buying computers. Don't they realize that a twice as powerful computer will be out a year from now? Also, no one is a fortune teller. Bitcoin can go down as fast as it went up.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 03, 2014, 11:31:58 PM
Irrelevant.  Lots of stocks don't pay dividends.

Irrelevant. I never said they did.
Actually its more like a commodity. Like Copper or Gold. Only it doesn't exist and hence has no intrinsic value at all. 

I've been paid for work in BTC before, and I spent it on stuff. That, as far as my simple, pragmatic mind is concerned, makes it good enough to be a currency.

This isn't the first time I've heard this. What work was it, if you don't mind me asking?
He pushes vegetables up his arse in front of his webcam.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Saddam Hussein on March 04, 2014, 01:14:56 AM
I've been paid for work in BTC before, and I spent it on stuff. That, as far as my simple, pragmatic mind is concerned, makes it good enough to be a currency.

This isn't the first time I've heard this. What work was it, if you don't mind me asking?
He pushes vegetables up his arse in front of his webcam.

It sounds like you were one of his viewers.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 04, 2014, 01:21:13 AM
It sounds like you were one of his viewers.
You wouldn't believe how much he paid me.

You were a fool for not holding on to it longer.
Yes, I regret it every now and then. But hey, the fact that I could have earned much more doesn't change the fact that I earned a bit.

This isn't the first time I've heard this. What work was it, if you don't mind me asking?
It was a small programming project. I don't want to say more because the NSA will literally carpetbomb my region if they find out. >o<
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on March 04, 2014, 02:23:48 AM
Irrelevant.  Lots of stocks don't pay dividends.

Irrelevant. I never said they did.

Then why did you bring up dividends when bitcoins were compared to stocks?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 04, 2014, 02:50:07 AM
Then why did you bring up dividends when bitcoins were compared to stocks?

Why not?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on March 04, 2014, 03:00:37 AM
Then why did you bring up dividends when bitcoins were compared to stocks?

Why not?

Because it's irrelevant.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 04, 2014, 05:20:45 AM
Because it's irrelevant.

It isn't, though.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: jroa on March 04, 2014, 06:20:09 AM
Rushy used to be a great debater.  Now, he is only an empty shell of a bit coin want to be.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on March 04, 2014, 02:10:51 PM
Because it's irrelevant.

It isn't, though.
Then perhaps you should point out the relevance.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on March 04, 2014, 08:15:12 PM
Hey Rushy, is Flexcoin a safe place to stash my bitcoins?
Quote from: http://flexcoin.com/
Flexcoin is shutting down.

On March 2nd 2014 Flexcoin was attacked and robbed of all coins in the hot wallet. The attacker made off with 896 BTC, dividing them into these two addresses:

1NDkevapt4SWYFEmquCDBSf7DLMTNVggdu

1QFcC5JitGwpFKqRDd9QNH3eGN56dCNgy6

As Flexcoin does not have the resources, assets, or otherwise to come back from this loss, we are closing our doors immediately.

Users who put their coins into cold storage will be contacted by Flexcoin and asked to verify their identity. Once identified, cold storage coins will be transferred out free of charge. Cold storage coins were held offline and not within reach of the attacker. All other users will be directed to Flexcoin's "Terms of service" located at "Flexcoin.com/118.html" a document which was agreed on, upon signing up with Flexcoin.

On the other hand, never mind.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 04, 2014, 09:46:11 PM
Hey Rushy, is Flexcoin a safe place to stash my bitcoins?
God damn it, how many times does this need to be said? If you stash your BTC online, you take a risk. If you store them with a 3rd party, you take a risk. No, Flexcoin is not a safe place to stash your BTC. This is elementary knowledge.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Пардисфла on March 05, 2014, 12:58:22 AM
Hey Rushy, is Flexcoin a safe place to stash my bitcoins?
God damn it, how many times does this need to be said? If you stash your BTC online, you take a risk. If you store them with a 3rd party, you take a risk. No, Flexcoin is not a safe place to stash your BTC. This is elementary knowledge.

You just got markjo'd.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 05, 2014, 02:24:04 AM
Hey Rushy, is Flexcoin a safe place to stash my bitcoins?

On the other hand, never mind.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on March 05, 2014, 03:31:05 AM
Hey Rushy, is Flexcoin a safe place to stash my bitcoins?
God damn it, how many times does this need to be said? If you stash your BTC online, you take a risk. If you store them with a 3rd party, you take a risk. No, Flexcoin is not a safe place to stash your BTC. This is elementary knowledge.

B-b-but Flexcoin was supposed to fix the problems with bitcoins.
Quote from: http://www.flexcoin.com/103.html
How Flexcoin Solves Bitcoin’s Problems

Flexcoin solves nearly every problem that exists with the Bitcoin currency today.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 05, 2014, 04:14:37 AM
You just got markjo'd.
I couldn't help it :(
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on March 05, 2014, 02:20:36 PM
Wow.  Bitcoins are being stolen all over the place. I guess storage isn't bank level yet.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 05, 2014, 07:44:52 PM
Wow.  Bitcoins are being stolen all over the place. I guess storage isn't bank level yet.

This is because most, if not all, Bitcoin startups are currently run by guys in their early twenties with a lot of money and very little work experience which can not be trusted, especially since these small startups turned into multi-million dollar companies overnight.

I'm waiting to see what large Wall Street level companies such as Circle (www.circle.com) plan to do with Bitcoin. It takes a long time to get real money transmission companies in the works because of all the bureaucratic red tape. You don't see any Mom & Pop corner banks and its because starting or being a bank is not easy, cheap, or fast. Too many people treat these Bitcoin startups as banks when they're tinker toys at best when compared to a real multi-million dollar company.

Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 05, 2014, 10:56:50 PM
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
One in the hand is never worth 2 in the bush.

You don't see any Mom & Pop corner banks and its because starting or being a bank is not easy
That's absolute nonsense.

There are thousands. Below is a list of the banks in just the UK. Yes, we have 5 massive banks that are on every high street, but we have hundreds of independent one branch banks. Mom and pop banks if you like. Most cater for high wealth individuals because most people just want to be able to use a cash card in any town, but if you want to put your savings in a small private bank, its no problem. You'll likely get better rates of interest too.
http://www.altiusdirectory.com/Finance/uk-banks-list.php

You also have hundreds in the states.
http://www.altiusdirectory.com/Finance/list-of-banks-in-usa.php
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 06, 2014, 12:31:05 AM
One in the hand is never worth 2 in the bush.

I'm sure that notion has gotten you far in life.

There are thousands. Below is a list of the banks in just the UK. Yes, we have 5 massive banks that are on every high street, but we have hundreds of independent one branch banks. Mom and pop banks if you like. Most cater for high wealth individuals because most people just want to be able to use a cash card in any town, but if you want to put your savings in a small private bank, its no problem. You'll likely get better rates of interest too.
http://www.altiusdirectory.com/Finance/uk-banks-list.php

You also have hundreds in the states.
http://www.altiusdirectory.com/Finance/list-of-banks-in-usa.php

Those are more like credit unions than banks. They don't offer the complete services that a large bank can provide. They are also, funnily enough, more prone to losing your funds. Who would have thought?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on March 06, 2014, 01:45:19 AM
Too many people treat these Bitcoin startups as banks when they're tinker toys at best when compared to a real multi-million dollar company.
Yes, because no one could ever hack a "real multi-million dollar company."  ::)
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/jan/03/banks-race-to-replace-millions-of-hacked-cards/
http://thehackernews.com/2013/12/JPMorgan-Chase-bank-card-hacked_5.html
http://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240208933/More-than-half-top-bank-websites-hacked-study-shows
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 03:12:01 AM
Yes, because no one could ever hack a "real multi-million dollar company."  ::)
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/jan/03/banks-race-to-replace-millions-of-hacked-cards/
http://thehackernews.com/2013/12/JPMorgan-Chase-bank-card-hacked_5.html
http://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240208933/More-than-half-top-bank-websites-hacked-study-shows
I don't think the average user cares whether or not their bank can be hacked. What they care about is whether or not they'll lose their money as a result.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 07:08:33 PM
Those are more like credit unions than banks. They don't offer the complete services that a large bank can provide. They are also, funnily enough, more prone to losing your funds. Who would have thought?
Only you. In the UK they are regulated by the FSA and your savings are protected by your government in the exact same way as they would be with a high street megabank. As for losing your funds more often, I'd love to see a citation for that please. Most do not indulge in the casino banking that gets high street banks in the shit. Depositor for depositor there is no way they lose anywhere like the funds.

The main point being your deposits are protected ... which they aren't with bitcoin as many bohemian investors are finding out.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 06, 2014, 07:24:17 PM
The main point being your deposits are protected ... which they aren't with bitcoin as many bohemian investors are finding out.

Bitcoin is a currency, not a bank.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 07:27:06 PM
Its not a currency. We established this already.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on March 06, 2014, 08:19:23 PM
The main point being your deposits are protected ... which they aren't with bitcoin as many bohemian investors are finding out.

Bitcoin is a currency, not a bank.

Irrelevant to Thork's point.  Bitcoin deposits are not protected by any government or financial institution.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 08:21:19 PM
Its not a currency. We established this already.
We really haven't. We've established that you don't think it's one.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 08:28:31 PM
Well it has been tested to see if it is a currency and the results are in.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-19/bitcoin-becomes-commodity-in-finland-after-failing-currency-test.html
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-03-05/why-bitcoin-might-not-count-as-money-in-japan
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Latest-News-Wires/2014/0301/Bitcoin-is-not-real-money-Kudlow
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/business/technology/a/21808265/buffett-says-bitcoin-not-a-currency/
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/03/01/bitcoin_is_not_real_money_121766.html
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/11/ernst-young-warn-bitcoin-payment-problems

So I have the backing of Ernst and Young, Warren Buffet, Kudlow, Japan and Finland. You have Rushy.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 08:54:37 PM
By that logic, Taiwan is not a country because several countries do not consider it to be one. Same goes for North Korea, I guess. Let's stop worrying about them making nukes, they don't even exist!

That is to say, your logic needs to be brushed up. You're better than that, Thork. You know better than to make arguments from authority.

I'm not quite as driven as you were in your Google spree, but here's an example of one government that does consider it to be a currency: http://abnk.assembly.ca.gov/sites/abnk.assembly.ca.gov/files/AB_129_0_ABPCA_CX27_Dickinson_RN_SN_20140107_FAROUKMA_20140121_FN_R092121.pdf
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 09:05:42 PM
here's an example of one government that does consider it to be a currency: http://abnk.assembly.ca.gov/sites/abnk.assembly.ca.gov/files/AB_129_0_ABPCA_CX27_Dickinson_RN_SN_20140107_FAROUKMA_20140121_FN_R092121.pdf
Which government? Your source states the laws on alternative currencies. It certainly doesn't go so far as to quantify Bitcoin as one. In fact it doesn't even mention Bitcoin. Bitcoin is only mentioned in the comments which were cobbled together by some guy call Mark Farouk. Not by the ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE ON BANKING AND FINANCE as your .pdf disingenuously implies.

C'mon, you're better than that. Make an effort to read your source before posting it.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 09:36:47 PM
Your source states the laws on alternative currencies. It certainly doesn't go so far as to quantify Bitcoin as one. In fact it doesn't even mention Bitcoin.
I challenge you to find one legal act, in any country, that references Bitcoin by name in its literal text.

But, since you want a source that's been carefully processed for you, here you go <3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_Bitcoins_by_country
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 09:38:35 PM
No, I don't want to know where they are legal. I want to know where they are considered a currency. Please stop moving the goalposts.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 09:39:45 PM
I want to know where they are considered a currency.
C'mon, you're better than that. Make an effort to read the source before commenting about it.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 09:40:57 PM
In which country are they CONSIDERED A CURRENCY?

Your source does not provide that information.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 09:47:23 PM
In which country are they CONSIDERED A CURRENCY?

Your source does not provide that information.
Actually, it does, but since you won't bother reading it: Germany and the United States are notable examples. I already showed you a California law about alternative currencies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_currency) (of which Bitcoin is one, but you pretended that it's not one).

I'll take pity on you and stop trolling you for a moment. It would seem that you've picked a very specific definition of "currency", but failed to specify it, which is what is stopping you from succeeding here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency

If by "currency" you mean "banknotes", then Bitcoin is not a currency, and neither is the money you store with Best Bank Plc. If you mean a system of money, then it is one, by the virtue of it being used as one.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 09:54:57 PM
You have shown where bitcoin is legal. That nations accept alternative currencies. That people can trade bitcoins.

What you haven't shown anywhere, is that anyone other than you and Rushy consider Bitcoin as a currency. Absolutely no nation on earth has said "yes, its a bonafide currency". Not one.

either retract
Its not a currency. We established this already.
We really haven't. We've established that you don't think it's one.
or provide a source where bitcoin has been accepted as a currency by any official body, nation, bank or financially regulated establishment.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 09:59:02 PM
Bitcoin is an alternative currency. I showed you nations that accept alternative currencies as currencies.

Now, please fulfill the following requests:
I challenge you to find one legal act, in any country, that references Bitcoin by name in its literal text.
Make an effort to read the source before commenting about it.

In addition to that, specify which definition of "currency" you're arguing against.

provide a source where bitcoin has been accepted as a currency by any official body, nation, bank or financially regulated establishment.
k m8
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/11/22/cyprus-university-first-to-accept-bitcoins-for-tuition/
EDIT: Or straight from the source: http://www.unic.ac.cy/digitalcurrency
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 10:10:03 PM
You haven't proved anyone accepts bitcoin as an alternative currency. You just keep going around in circles.

As for a Cypriot university they aren't a financial institution. You're just getting desperate now. You had 200 odd central banks, 1000s of regulators and quangos, thousands of commercial banks, the IMF, ECB or anyone else and NOT ONE OF THEM CONSIDERS BITCOIN AS A CURRENCY. I can exchange pheasants for vegetables at my local farm but that doesn't make a pheasant a unit of currency. Its called bartering. That is what the university is doing. Trading a service for a commodity. A university cannot decree bitcoin a currency. It has to be a financial body.

I'll take that as an admission of failure on your part. Don't post anything else unless it is someone making bitcoin a currency by law.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on March 06, 2014, 10:23:28 PM
In which country are they CONSIDERED A CURRENCY?

Your source does not provide that information.
Actually, it does, but since you won't bother reading it: Germany and the United States are notable examples.

If Germany accepts bitcoin as a currency, then why is it that if you go to a currency exchange there, you have to pay VAT to exchange bitcoin for euros, but not US dollars, or any other country's legal tender?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 10:28:30 PM
In which country are they CONSIDERED A CURRENCY?

Your source does not provide that information.
Actually, it does, but since you won't bother reading it: Germany and the United States are notable examples.

If Germany accepts bitcoin as a currency, then why is it that if you go to a currency exchange there, you have to pay VAT to exchange bitcoin for euros, but not US dollars, or any other country's legal tender?
Why is bitcoin subject to Capital gains tax? Currencies aren't.

Gold is. Gold coins with a currency value aren't.
http://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold-coins/britannia-1oz-gold-coin/2014-gold-britannia-one-ounce-coin/

Note distinction between currency and commodity.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 06, 2014, 10:38:45 PM
Currencies are subject to capital gains tax. If I convert USD to EUR and EUR gains value, then I convert EUR back to USD. Then boom, I've just made a capital gain and I have to report it on my taxes.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/988

The only time it doesn't count as a gain or loss is if the exchange rate didn't change. I.E. instant currency conversions. If I hold EUR for a long time and then convert it, it qualifies as capital gains (or loss), and not income.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 10:53:35 PM
No. Foreign currencies are capital gains exempt. Trading stock is not.

I can go on holiday, make a killing from a currency exchange rate an no capital gains tax. Trading is different because its the only way a government can tax professional currency traders.

Bitcoin however always attracts capital gains tax, once the threshold is met. It isn't exempt in any way like foreign currencies. As you are lazy, I will quote for you
Quote from: http://www.capitalgainsallowance.com/capital-gains-tax-exemption/
There are a number of different assets which when disposed of, never attract capital gains tax, because the assets themselves are actually exempt. Examples of this include the foreign currency you purchase for yourself or your relatives whilst spending time abroad

and

Quote from: http://www.capitalgainsallowance.com/capital-gains-tax-exemption/
this transaction will be exempt from capital gains tax, so long as two conditions have been met. These are that the gift is not a form of trading stock which you have purchased for the purposes of reselling
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 10:57:31 PM
As for a Cypriot university they aren't a financial institution.
They're an official body, and a financially-regulated institution. I fulfilled your request, and doubly so. Meanwhile, you're ignoring mine. I think it's clear who's failing to admit things here. <3
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 11:01:58 PM
If Germany accepts bitcoin as a currency, then why is it that if you go to a currency exchange there, you have to pay VAT to exchange bitcoin for euros, but not US dollars, or any other country's legal tender?
Presumably because purchases in Bitcoins are VAT-exempt in Germany (http://www.frank-schaeffler.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/2013_09_27-Antwort-Koschyk-Bitcoin3.pdf), but given that European countries are fixing that problem now (e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26426550) I don't think we'll have to worry about it for much longer.

EDIT: Oh, it looks like your information is outdated. Germany took care of that law already: http://www.welt.de/finanzen/article120823372/Zahlungen-mit-Bitcoins-sind-umsatzsteuerfrei.html
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 11:02:04 PM
As for a Cypriot university they aren't a financial institution.
They're an official body, and a financially-regulated institution. I fulfilled your request, and doubly so. Meanwhile, you're ignoring mine. I think it's clear who's failing to admit things here. <3
When I talk about institutions, I mean Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan Chase. Not the Royal Society of West Yorkshire Morris Dancers who happen to have got their tax form in on time this year.

You have failed to prove it is a currency. You merely gave an example of it being used for barter.

What have you asked me to provide? I gave you a half dozen sources saying its not a currency. That's the basis for the argument. Its the only thing I have asked you to retract.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 11:06:18 PM
You have failed to prove it is a currency. You merely gave an example of it being used for barter.
Right, this confirms beyond a doubt that you're using an obscure definition of currency.

What have you asked me to provide?
The definition of "currency" as you're using in your claims. A law document referring to Bitcoins by name in its literal text.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 11:12:16 PM
You have failed to prove it is a currency. You merely gave an example of it being used for barter.
Right, this confirms beyond a doubt that you're using an obscure definition of currency.
::)

What have you asked me to provide?
The definition of "currency" as you're using in your claims. A law document referring to Bitcoins by name in its literal text.
Its actually because its not a currency that its legal in the first place.
http://www.extremetech.com/internet/152349-bitcoin-isnt-illegal-because-it-isnt-real-money

Game set and match.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 11:15:50 PM
The definition of "currency" as you're using in your claims. A law document referring to Bitcoins by name in its literal text.
Its actually because its not a currency that its legal in the first place.
http://www.extremetech.com/internet/152349-bitcoin-isnt-illegal-because-it-isnt-real-money

Game set and match.
Your response doesn't even attempt to address what I said. Have you been drinking again?

Also, that article says that Bitcoin is not legal tender in the US. We kind of already knew that. Not reading your sources, huh?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 11:17:35 PM
I think you'd have more luck trying to convince me the earth is round. You've put up a very flaccid fight this evening.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 11:19:37 PM
Look who's talking. You gave me an article that says Bitcoin is a currency because you forgot to read it. :)

Quote
What the legitimacy of Bitcoin comes down to is what accepts it as currency, which in turn prompts the question of what, exactly, currency is. If currency is considered to be government-authorized tender, then Bitcoin isn’t currency. If currency is considered to be an item that is widely accepted by legal businesses in exchange for goods or services, then Bitcoin still isn’t currency. If currency is considered to be an item that is accepted in exchange for goods or services, but doesn’t need to be widespread, then Bitcoin can indeed be classified as currency. One thing is for certain, though: The government doesn’t view Bitcoin as legal tender, and instead classifies it as a virtual currency.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 11:21:04 PM
Oh I read it. Let me pick out a quote.

Quote from: http://www.extremetech.com/internet/152349-bitcoin-isnt-illegal-because-it-isnt-real-money
In what will no doubt anger some fans of the digital currency, financial services lawyer Dan Friedberg says it’s because the government doesn’t view Bitcoin as a real currency. Zing.
Are you angry?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 11:22:21 PM
Oh I read it. Let me pick out a quote.

Quote from: http://www.extremetech.com/internet/152349-bitcoin-isnt-illegal-because-it-isnt-real-money
In what will no doubt anger some fans of the digital currency, financial services lawyer Dan Friedberg says it’s because the government doesn’t view Bitcoin as a real currency. Zing.
Are you angry?
I'm not, because my quote is cooler than yours.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 11:24:59 PM
Here, have some more US government officials calling it a currency: http://rt.com/usa/bitcoin-legitimate-senate-hearing-931/

Are you angry? :*
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Saddam Hussein on March 06, 2014, 11:28:06 PM
Did you just link to RT?  For shame.  Just look at the nutty comments.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 11:29:07 PM
You just linked to RT.  For shame.
Heck, I'd even quote the Daily Mail if it ruffles Thork's feathers.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 11:29:59 PM
Oh I read it. Let me pick out a quote.

Quote from: http://www.extremetech.com/internet/152349-bitcoin-isnt-illegal-because-it-isnt-real-money
In what will no doubt anger some fans of the digital currency, financial services lawyer Dan Friedberg says it’s because the government doesn’t view Bitcoin as a real currency. Zing.
Are you angry?
I'm not, because my quote is cooler than yours.
Mine had the word Zing at the end. Yours had 3 'ifs' and the word virtual in front of the word currency.

If Parsifal has a virtual girlfriend, is she a real girlfriend? No. Sadly not.

Here, have some more US government officials calling it a currency: http://rt.com/usa/bitcoin-legitimate-senate-hearing-931/

Are you angry? :*
Not really.

Quote from: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/virtual
vir·tu·al adjective \ˈvər-chə-wəl, -chəl; ˈvərch-wəl\ 

: very close to being something without actually being it
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 11:32:42 PM
Quote from: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/virtual
vir·tu·al adjective \ˈvər-chə-wəl, -chəl; ˈvərch-wəl\ 

: very close to being something without actually being it
Or, if we continue reading your source:
: existing or occurring on computers or on the Internet

xoxo
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 11:35:11 PM
Quote from: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/virtual
vir·tu·al adjective \ˈvər-chə-wəl, -chəl; ˈvərch-wəl\ 

: very close to being something without actually being it
Or, if we continue reading your source:
: existing or occurring on computers or on the Internet

xoxo
Like Parsifal's girlfriend?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 11:36:12 PM
Like Parsifal's girlfriend?
Why would you say such a mean thing about me? :(
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 11:36:56 PM
Like Parsifal's girlfriend?
Why would you say such a mean thing about me? :(
He was on here bragging only this week, that he's been seeing other people behind your back. :'(

http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=648.msg19252#msg19252
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 11:39:44 PM
He was on here bragging only this week, that he's been seeing other people behind your back. :'(

http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=648.msg19252#msg19252
That insensitive bastard.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 11:40:45 PM
She's only virtual. Don't get your knickers in a twist.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Saddam Hussein on March 06, 2014, 11:51:25 PM
I am interrupting this stupid discussion to post this article:

http://mag.newsweek.com/2014/03/14/bitcoin-satoshi-nakamoto.html

Apparently, redditors and bitcoin users have gotten butthurt over this and are now harassing and threatening the reporter.  Stay classy, anarchists/libertarians/conspiracy theorists of the Internet.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 11:56:10 PM
I am interrupting this stupid discussion to post this article:

http://mag.newsweek.com/2014/03/14/bitcoin-satoshi-nakamoto.html

Apparently, redditors and bitcoin users have gotten butthurt over this and are now harassing and threatening the reporter.  Stay classy, anarchists/libertarians/conspiracy theorists of the Internet.
QED reddit is still shit
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on March 06, 2014, 11:56:58 PM
What is a reddit?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 07, 2014, 12:32:18 AM
What is a reddit?
You're better off not knowing >o<
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 07, 2014, 02:59:28 AM
No. Foreign currencies are capital gains exempt. Trading stock is not.

I can go on holiday, make a killing from a currency exchange rate an no capital gains tax. Trading is different because its the only way a government can tax professional currency traders.

Bitcoin however always attracts capital gains tax, once the threshold is met. It isn't exempt in any way like foreign currencies. As you are lazy, I will quote for you
Quote from: http://www.capitalgainsallowance.com/capital-gains-tax-exemption/
There are a number of different assets which when disposed of, never attract capital gains tax, because the assets themselves are actually exempt. Examples of this include the foreign currency you purchase for yourself or your relatives whilst spending time abroad

and

Quote from: http://www.capitalgainsallowance.com/capital-gains-tax-exemption/
this transaction will be exempt from capital gains tax, so long as two conditions have been met. These are that the gift is not a form of trading stock which you have purchased for the purposes of reselling

There are no laws regarding bitcoin. Capital gains tax is an assumption, not a rule. Also, foreign exchange is not exempt. Did you even bother to read the link I gave you? I don't care what some random ass websites you go to. I posted Federal law. It might be different in the UK, but currency exchange is taxed in the US as a capital gain.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DuckDodgers on March 07, 2014, 03:25:42 AM
That law has a $200 dollar exemption limit.  A typical vacationer would likely not make a gain of over $200 while exchanging currency for a 1-2 week trip.  Your typical currency day-trader will likely exceed that limit and would therefore be subject to the capital gains tax while the vacationer would not.  However, with the high volatility of bitcoin prices, it would be much more likely to be subject to this $200 limit.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DuckDodgers on March 07, 2014, 07:05:26 PM
To further Thork's argument that it is a commodity and not a currency, Japan is going to treat it like a commodity and not regulate it as well as subject it to sales and capital gains tax,  http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/07/japan-government-has-no-plans-to-regulate-bitcoin-transactions-after-mt-goxs-demise/.  Though the link does say the UK is expected to declare it a currency.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 07, 2014, 07:39:57 PM
To further Thork's argument that it is a commodity and not a currency, Japan is going to treat it like a commodity and not regulate it as well as subject it to sales and capital gains tax,  http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/07/japan-government-has-no-plans-to-regulate-bitcoin-transactions-after-mt-goxs-demise/.  Though the link does say the UK is expected to declare it a currency.

The UK also revoked the 20% tax they implemented on Bitcoin in order to attract more startups. Also, whether any specific country treats Bitcoin as a currency or not is irrelevant. Bitcoin is a currency, if countries care or not to recognize that is a moot point.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 15, 2014, 06:25:03 PM
OMG BITCOIN SURE GOT TOLD

(http://www.loadingartist.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/x2014-03-15-making-money.png.pagespeed.ic.XHQkYa_b4J.png)
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Saddam Hussein on March 15, 2014, 06:43:41 PM
(http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/image/1246)
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 15, 2014, 07:00:36 PM
The problem isn't that people pretend Bitcoin is money, rather, the problem is that quite a lot of people pretend it isn't.

OMG BITCOIN SURE GOT TOLD

The comic is funny and not necessarily hating on Bitcoin. The author actually accepts Bitcoin donations.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on March 26, 2014, 03:23:36 AM
Hmmm....  It seems that the IRS doesn't think that Bitcoin is a currency either.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-25/bitcoin-is-property-not-currency-in-tax-system-irs-says.html
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 26, 2014, 03:31:34 AM
Hmmm....  It seems that the IRS doesn't think that Bitcoin is a currency either.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-25/bitcoin-is-property-not-currency-in-tax-system-irs-says.html

This is actually very good news to me. In my income bracket I now pay 0% taxes on Bitcoin. Suckers.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on March 26, 2014, 03:42:53 AM
Did you miss the part about paying on the capital gains for your bitcoin investment?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 26, 2014, 03:45:00 AM
Did you miss the part about paying on the capital gains for your bitcoin investment?

This is actually very good news to me. In my income bracket I now pay 0% taxes on Bitcoin. Suckers.

(http://nwhomesearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Chart-of-Taxes.png)

As long as I don't sell more than 36K in bitcoin capital gains each year I can get away with 0% taxes. That means I could live the rest of my life on 36K a year and never have to pay any form of income taxes (assuming the tax rate doesn't change). Like I said, good news for me, I can easily live on 36k a year until I get out of college.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 26, 2014, 04:23:33 AM
As long as I don't sell more than 36K in bitcoin capital gains each year I can get away with 0% taxes. That means I could live the rest of my life on 36K a year and never have to pay any form of income taxes (assuming the tax rate doesn't change). Like I said, good news for me, I can easily live on 36k a year until I get out of college.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/1975125_442045255926325_1809951961_n.png) (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tax-Evasion-Memes/441870742610443)
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 26, 2014, 04:37:32 AM
[dumbass picture]

Yes, Pizza. When tens of thousands of dollars appear in my bank account I'm sure my bank totally won't perform the automatic money laundering reports mandated by law and give them to the IRS. The IRS will then totally not care about the possible thousands of dollars I may or may not owe them on taxes if I go over my tax bracket. I can only hope that although you're being facetious that you are also being sarcastic. Bitcoin is full of anarchist idiots that are going to get themselves heavy fines, or worse, thrown in jail, all over a few thousand dollars that they somehow think they "earned" by riding the Bitcoin tidal wave.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 26, 2014, 05:03:37 AM
I can only hope that although you're being facetious that you are also being sarcastic.
Surely you know me well enough to do more than just hope that.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 26, 2014, 05:04:49 AM
Surely you know me well enough to do more than just hope that.

Poe's Law requires that I don't.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 26, 2014, 05:06:02 AM
Poe's Law requires that I don't.
But that makes it harder for me to play the troll/sarcasm card whenever convenient. :(
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Vindictus on March 26, 2014, 07:15:47 AM
Rushy is poor.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on March 26, 2014, 01:48:22 PM
As long as I don't sell more than 36K in bitcoin capital gains each year I can get away with 0% taxes. That means I could live the rest of my life on 36K a year and never have to pay any form of income taxes (assuming the tax rate doesn't change). Like I said, good news for me, I can easily live on 36k a year until I get out of college.
For long term capital gains, perhaps.  Short term capital gains are a different story.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 26, 2014, 07:26:55 PM
For long term capital gains, perhaps.  Short term capital gains are a different story.

Yes, Markjo, thank you for once again stating the obvious and adding nothing to the discussion whatsoever.

But that makes it harder for me to play the troll/sarcasm card whenever convenient. :(

That's okay, there never was a troll card. If someone tells you they're trolling they are by default not trolling at all.

Rushy is poor.

 :(
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Saddam Hussein on March 26, 2014, 08:38:24 PM
Bitcoin is just a silly gimmick.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on March 27, 2014, 01:41:32 AM
For long term capital gains, perhaps.  Short term capital gains are a different story.

Yes, Markjo, thank you for once again stating the obvious and adding nothing to the discussion whatsoever.

Good, then you realize that you do pay tax on capital gains for bitcoins that you hold for less than a year.  Glad that doesn't contradict what you said earlier:
As long as I don't sell more than 36K in bitcoin capital gains each year I can get away with 0% taxes.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 27, 2014, 02:29:36 AM
Good, then you realize that you do pay tax on capital gains for bitcoins that you hold for less than a year.  Glad that doesn't contradict what you said earlier:

It doesn't and I can tell that irks you in ways I can't begin to fathom. Rushy's AAA investment strategy has made your poor trolling attempts a mockery of only yourself.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on March 27, 2014, 02:40:39 AM
Why would your tax liability irk me in the slightest?  ???
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on March 27, 2014, 02:46:59 AM
Why would your tax liability irk me in the slightest?  ???

(http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/12/122165/2587701-9733518266-13834.gif)

Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on March 27, 2014, 02:56:41 AM
Why would your tax liability irk me in the slightest?  ???

(http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/12/122165/2587701-9733518266-13834.gif)
(http://media2.giphy.com/media/ELE38BM27p1JK/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on April 06, 2014, 07:38:56 AM
(http://media.coindesk.com/2014/03/BjP4akHCIAIaqcy.jpg)
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Vindictus on April 06, 2014, 08:00:38 AM
Just remember, when you're a millionaire bitcoiner, that I didn't make fun of you.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on April 21, 2014, 10:19:31 AM
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2i9i3v9.png)

At what point on the graph above did you buy your bitcoins Rushy?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on April 21, 2014, 06:24:04 PM
Let's say I had only US dollar bills, and wanted to order something anonymously online with Bitcoin. How possible is it to be untraceable?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: junker on April 21, 2014, 06:26:30 PM
Let's say I had only US dollar bills, and wanted to order something anonymously online with Bitcoin. How possible is it to be untraceable?

Silk Road is shut down, Franklin  >o<
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on April 21, 2014, 08:44:59 PM
Pretty sure it's back. Or something like it.

But for what it's worth, you have to give an address when ordering something right? Unless you have a TORPostal service...
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on April 21, 2014, 09:04:26 PM
Pretty sure it's back. Or something like it.
Another site identical to the original was set up by different people, who then proceeded to rob the fuck out of everyone and run away.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on April 21, 2014, 10:35:21 PM
At what point on the graph above did you buy your bitcoins Rushy?

I don't talk about my finances on the interwebs.

Let's say I had only US dollar bills, and wanted to order something anonymously online with Bitcoin. How possible is it to be untraceable?

You would have to buy the coins in person. If you don't consider that untraceable, then you will have to mine the coins. If you don't mind losing money on your electricity bill, mining coins is still a good way to get the coins without anyone knowing you have them.

Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on April 21, 2014, 11:25:51 PM
At what point on the graph above did you buy your bitcoins Rushy?

I don't talk about my finances on the interwebs.
I'm not asking how much you invested. I'm just asking at what point you invested. I mean if you got in very early, you'll be laughing. If you bought at $1000 a bitcoin, then it sucks to be you.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on April 22, 2014, 10:35:31 AM
Pretty sure it's back. Or something like it.
Another site identical to the original was set up by different people, who then proceeded to rob the fuck out of everyone and run away.

Hur hur hur.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on April 23, 2014, 02:24:13 AM
I'm not asking how much you invested. I'm just asking at what point you invested. I mean if you got in very early, you'll be laughing. If you bought at $1000 a bitcoin, then it sucks to be you.

I don't talk about my finances on the interwebs.

I will not answer any questions that talk about when I bought or how much I bought. This is "ask Rushy about Bitcoins" not "ask Rushy about Rushy."
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on April 23, 2014, 03:04:16 AM
In other words, it sucks to be Rushy.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on April 23, 2014, 03:23:54 PM
This is "ask Rushy about Bitcoins" not "ask Rushy about Rushy."

We're asking about "Bitcoins that were bought by Rushy". They belong to the set "Bitcoins". Answer our questions or face subpoena.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on April 24, 2014, 12:59:12 AM
http://dogecoin.com/

Way more reliable than Bitcoin.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on April 24, 2014, 03:21:40 AM
We're asking about "Bitcoins that were bought by Rushy". They belong to the set "Bitcoins". Answer our questions or face subpoena.

Yawn.

http://dogecoin.com/

Way more reliable than Bitcoin.

I can't say how much fun it has been watching that mess of a coin hyperinflate into oblivion.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on April 24, 2014, 03:43:34 AM
http://dogecoin.com/

Way more reliable than Bitcoin.

I can't say how much fun it has been watching that mess of a coin hyperinflate into oblivion.
I dunno man, they make some convincing arguments for themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=000al7ru3ms

(http://i.imgur.com/WWNsiKg.png)
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on April 24, 2014, 10:16:27 AM
I can't say how much fun it has been watching that mess of a coin hyperinflate into oblivion.

Huh. You're looking at the wrong graph.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on May 09, 2014, 01:32:08 PM
www.theusdaily.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=3244227&type=home

Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 10, 2014, 12:08:57 AM
Yes, the FEC has ruled Bitcoins can now be given to politicians as an in-kind donation, similar to stocks. It was pretty unexpected of them to do so, most agencies simply dance around the subject for a long time to avoid making any real decision.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on May 18, 2014, 05:33:12 AM
(https://www.titanbtc.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Complete_coin_400wide.png)

Now you can get physical "bitcoins".
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 18, 2014, 05:46:07 AM
You could get physical Bitcoins the moment the Bitcoin protocol was released. That said, a physical bitcoin is actually just a serial number (a private key). If anyone offers you a coin with no apparent sign of a serial number on it, you're getting swindled. Also, that coin looks like shit compared to say, a Casascius coin.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 18, 2014, 11:38:29 AM
You could get physical Bitcoins the moment the Bitcoin protocol was released. That said, a physical bitcoin is actually just a serial number

You seem to have difficulty grasping the concept of "physical".
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 18, 2014, 02:34:37 PM
You seem to have difficulty grasping the concept of "physical".

The problem is more likely on your end.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 18, 2014, 06:02:13 PM
You seem to have difficulty grasping the concept of "physical".

The problem is more likely on your end.

Incorrect.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 18, 2014, 06:10:21 PM
Incorrect.

Then please proceed to state why you believe that anything about Bitcoin is abstract.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 18, 2014, 08:57:08 PM
Incorrect.

Then please proceed to state why you believe that anything about Bitcoin is abstract.

Holy fucking jesus you're retarded.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 18, 2014, 09:02:14 PM
Holy fucking jesus you're retarded.

You just don't get it, do you?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on May 18, 2014, 09:11:52 PM
That said, a physical bitcoin is actually just a serial number (a private key).

Is the number one a physical thing?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 18, 2014, 09:13:59 PM
That said, a physical bitcoin is actually just a serial number (a private key).

Is the number one a physical thing?

The number one is not a unique identifier attached to a network. All bitcoins exist, physically, on harddrives/thumb drives/sheets of paper/coins. There is no such thing as a bitcoin that is not physical.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on May 18, 2014, 09:19:19 PM
That said, a physical bitcoin is actually just a serial number (a private key).

Is the number one a physical thing?

The number one is not a unique identifier attached to a network. All bitcoins exist, physically, on harddrives/thumb drives/sheets of paper. There is no such thing as a bitcoin that is not physical.

The number one exists in all networks.

It's how your computer processes information and communicates. It's how the 'bitcoin' serial number is calculated.

You are trying to make a number (and an algorithm) into a 'physical thing'.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 18, 2014, 09:22:20 PM
The number one exists in all networks.

Incorrect.

It's how your computer processes information and communicates. It's how the 'bitcoin' serial number is calculated.

There are many types of computers that do not use binary.

You are trying to make a number (and an algorithm) into a 'physical thing'.

I don't think you know what the term physical means.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on May 18, 2014, 09:25:19 PM
OK I'm with Frappen.

Holy fucking jesus you're retarded.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 18, 2014, 09:27:11 PM
OK I'm with Frappen.

Holy fucking jesus you're retarded.

That's okay. Wallow in your ignorance if you must, just do it somewhere else.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on May 18, 2014, 09:57:14 PM
ITT: Irushwithscvs derails his own thread on accident.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on May 18, 2014, 09:58:21 PM
Head ---> Brick Wall.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Particle Person on May 18, 2014, 10:33:33 PM
That said, a physical bitcoin is actually just a serial number (a private key).

Is the number one a physical thing?

The number one is not a unique identifier attached to a network. All bitcoins exist, physically, on harddrives/thumb drives/sheets of paper. There is no such thing as a bitcoin that is not physical.

The number one exists in all networks.

It's how your computer processes information and communicates. It's how the 'bitcoin' serial number is calculated.

You are trying to make a number (and an algorithm) into a 'physical thing'.

Computers don't operate with magic. There is no real separation between "virtual" existence and physical existence.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 18, 2014, 11:19:28 PM
ITT: Irushwithscvs derails his own thread on accident.

It's my thread and it goes where I please, dammit.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on May 19, 2014, 07:17:56 AM
That said, a physical bitcoin is actually just a serial number (a private key).

Is the number one a physical thing?

The number one is not a unique identifier attached to a network. All bitcoins exist, physically, on harddrives/thumb drives/sheets of paper. There is no such thing as a bitcoin that is not physical.

The number one exists in all networks.

It's how your computer processes information and communicates. It's how the 'bitcoin' serial number is calculated.

You are trying to make a number (and an algorithm) into a 'physical thing'.

Computers don't operate with magic. There is no real separation between "virtual" existence and physical existence.

Now you're using the term existence. Changing the goal posts again I see.

He is trying to make a number (and an algorithm) into a physical thing. Where did the term existence come into it?

Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Particle Person on May 19, 2014, 07:21:59 AM
Sorry, I thought you were claiming that bitcoins can exist without any physical manifestation.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on May 19, 2014, 07:28:33 AM
Sorry, I thought you were claiming that bitcoins can exist without any physical manifestation.

Numbers exist without any physical manifestation.

That said, a physical bitcoin is actually just a serial number (a private key).

I'm addressing this.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Particle Person on May 19, 2014, 07:34:46 AM
Sorry, I thought you were claiming that bitcoins can exist without any physical manifestation.

Numbers exist without any physical manifestation.

Correct, but numbers stored on computers don't.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on May 19, 2014, 10:05:21 AM
Saying a number stored as magnetic/optical/flash bit is a physical object is as silly as saying a number stored on a piece of paper has monetary value based on the number.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Blanko on May 19, 2014, 10:11:16 AM
a number stored on a piece of paper has monetary value based on the number.

So, bitcoins?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 19, 2014, 08:41:43 PM
computers

What do they have to do with anything?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on May 19, 2014, 09:15:33 PM
"Physical" for the purposes of this argument should be defined as something that is tangible; something that you can pick up and show to someone, not an electron. Discussions like this aren't meaningful unless you're in law school or something.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 19, 2014, 09:24:57 PM
Quote from: http://bitcoinfaq.com/
A bitcoin isn't actually a 'thing' you can point at. It is just a number

associated with a bitcoin address.

ZOMG WTF LOL
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Particle Person on May 19, 2014, 09:30:14 PM
Yes, a number and address stored in a physical medium.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on May 19, 2014, 09:32:03 PM
Stahp.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Particle Person on May 19, 2014, 09:32:56 PM
Stahp.

le epic trollered
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 19, 2014, 09:33:13 PM
Yes, a number and address stored in a physical medium.

Any physical medium?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Particle Person on May 19, 2014, 09:34:37 PM
Yes, a number and address stored in a physical medium.

Any physical medium?

Usually an HDD or SSD.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 19, 2014, 09:36:48 PM
Usually an HDD or SSD.

Are they the only media that can be used to record a bitcoin?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Particle Person on May 19, 2014, 09:38:46 PM
I don't know, ask our resident bitfag. You can get a neat coin, but presumably the key is still stored in a server somewhere.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 19, 2014, 09:40:52 PM
I don't know

then why are you posting?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on May 19, 2014, 09:44:45 PM
Usually an HDD or SSD.

Are they the only media that can be used to record a bitcoin?

Your wallet has the encryption keys. The blockchain has the addresses, and everyone mining bitcoins has information on every bitcoin transaction through the blockchain. That's how a transaction is verified as legitimate.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Particle Person on May 19, 2014, 09:46:35 PM
I don't know

then why are you posting?

All I know is that every actual bitcoin is represented physically. The medium of storage is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on May 19, 2014, 09:50:16 PM
I don't know

then why are you posting?

All I know is that every actual bitcoin is represented physically.

Can you give me an example of something that isn't represented physically?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 19, 2014, 09:52:32 PM
The medium of storage is irrelevant.

Sounds abstract to me.

Rushy will be angry at you.  :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 19, 2014, 09:53:08 PM
Can you give me an example of something that isn't represented physically?

The love of OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST>
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Particle Person on May 19, 2014, 09:53:52 PM
I don't know

then why are you posting?

All I know is that every actual bitcoin is represented physically.

Can you give me an example of something that isn't represented physically?

No. Well, maybe time.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on May 19, 2014, 09:54:34 PM
I don't know

then why are you posting?

All I know is that every actual bitcoin is represented physically.

Can you give me an example of something that isn't represented physically?

No.

Then this entire discussion is obviously redundant.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Particle Person on May 19, 2014, 09:55:23 PM
I don't know

then why are you posting?

All I know is that every actual bitcoin is represented physically.

Can you give me an example of something that isn't represented physically?

No.

Then this entire discussion is obviously redundant.

I know. But somebody on the internet was wrong.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on May 19, 2014, 10:15:45 PM
Most conversations between Alexandyr, Rushy, and/or fappenhosen (or anyone on this site, really) degrades into a pedantic argument regarding the meaning of words.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 19, 2014, 10:19:32 PM
The meaning of "abstract" is pretty clear.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on May 19, 2014, 10:35:12 PM
Usually an HDD or SSD.

Are they the only media that can be used to record a bitcoin?

Your wallet has the encryption keys. The blockchain has the addresses, and everyone mining bitcoins has information on every bitcoin transaction through the blockchain. That's how a transaction is verified as legitimate.
Except the people who use bitcoin to anonymously launder money.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: jroa on May 19, 2014, 10:41:02 PM
The number one exists in all networks.

It's how your computer processes information and communicates. It's how the 'bitcoin' serial number is calculated.

You are trying to make a number (and an algorithm) into a 'physical thing'.

High/Low, On/Off, 1/0... these are states of things, not physical things.  A computer cares as much about the number One as it does about C. 
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Particle Person on May 19, 2014, 10:49:06 PM
Most conversations between Alexandyr, Rushy, and/or fappenhosen (or anyone on this site, really) degrades into a pedantic argument regarding the meaning of words.

It's been that way for years. Why should we stop now? I blame Parsifal.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 19, 2014, 11:11:14 PM
If you can interact with an object, the object is physical, because you are physical.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on May 19, 2014, 11:57:46 PM
If you can interact with an object, the object is physical, because you are physical.

^This.

Example:
"A computerDollar cares as much about the number One as it does about D. "
"A computerGold Bar cares as much about the number One as it does about G. "
"A computerCar cares as much about the number One as it does about D. "
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on May 20, 2014, 02:07:41 AM
I think... I think someone needs to call someone. This could prove to be a monumental discovery.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 20, 2014, 02:30:52 AM
I think... I think someone needs to call someone. This could prove to be a monumental discovery.

Only to a select few people in this thread who instigated this entire nonsense argument.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Blanko on May 20, 2014, 04:11:57 AM
I think a Bitcoin written down on a piece of paper might be a bit harder to pay with than a Bitcoin stored on your computer
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on May 20, 2014, 12:28:45 PM
Doesn't a physical bitcoin defeat the purpose of virtual currency?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on May 20, 2014, 01:01:32 PM
Doesn't a physical bitcoin defeat the purpose of virtual currency?
No more than saying that a digital bank account defeats the purpose of a physical currency.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rama Set on May 20, 2014, 01:19:48 PM
Doesn't a physical bitcoin defeat the purpose of virtual currency?

I think the point of bitcoin was more to have a stable currency that was not tied to any particular country or economic union.  That it ended up being done digitally has a lot to do with expedience.

Someone who knows more should please correct me where I am wrong.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 23, 2014, 05:33:09 PM
If anyone is truly interested in Bitcoin I also suggest taking a look at Peercoin. It is one of the only more popular coins that is not a straight copy and paste of the Bitcoin protocol. It secures the network by allowing users with large sums on coin to generate blocks, rather than requiring that a user have a large, powerful computer.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on May 23, 2014, 07:08:09 PM
How does one establish an exchange rate between all of the competing cryptocurrencies out there?  Seeing as just about anyone with the relevant tech savvy can design their own cryptocurrency, how does that affect the cryptoeconomy?  For example, do we really want Goatse Coin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goatse.cx#Goatse_Coin) to catch on?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on May 23, 2014, 08:01:46 PM
I hope crypto currency doesn't eventually become the currency of choice.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 23, 2014, 09:45:38 PM
How does one establish an exchange rate between all of the competing cryptocurrencies out there?  Seeing as just about anyone with the relevant tech savvy can design their own cryptocurrency, how does that affect the cryptoeconomy?  For example, do we really want Goatse Coin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goatse.cx#Goatse_Coin) to catch on?

The currencies are simply worth what someone is willing to pay for them and that typically depends on their form and function.

I hope crypto currency doesn't eventually become the currency of choice.

Why not? While Bitcoin itself may not be perfect, the idea of cryptocurrency is fundamentally better than any other form of currency we have so far.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on May 23, 2014, 09:48:39 PM
Why exactly are we asking you about Bitcoins? So you can flaunt your e-knowledge?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 23, 2014, 09:54:47 PM
Why exactly are we asking you about Bitcoins? So you can flaunt your e-knowledge?

Yes. Also, most people here would otherwise not bother learning about them. The problem is that most people involved in Bitcoin spend too much time talking about how Bitcoin works and not necessarily how it benefits people and this puts people off. It's a trap the Internet fell into for years. I want to change that. This isn't the only place I've tried spreading the gospel of our lord and savior Bitcoin, and it won't be the last.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 23, 2014, 10:02:17 PM
Nobody needs to learn about bit coins.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on May 24, 2014, 08:50:55 AM
I haven't got a clue what this thread is meant to be about.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: jroa on May 24, 2014, 08:56:42 AM
It is meant to be about asking Rushy about bitcoins. 
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on May 24, 2014, 09:08:00 AM
It is meant to be about asking Rushy about bitcoins.

Yeah I thought it was that as well.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on May 24, 2014, 11:09:06 AM

Why not? While Bitcoin itself may not be perfect, the idea of cryptocurrency is fundamentally better than any other form of currency we have so far.

Because then corporations would just build giant data centers dedicated to farming it, and I think it would be a bad idea to put the generation of our currency in their hands.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on May 24, 2014, 01:05:28 PM

Why not? While Bitcoin itself may not be perfect, the idea of cryptocurrency is fundamentally better than any other form of currency we have so far.

Because then corporations would just build giant data centers dedicated to farming it, and I think it would be a bad idea to put the generation of our currency in their hands.
Bit coins have a widely fluctuating value.  The faster they get mined, the less they are worth.  A corporation that spends a billion dollars to mine bitcoins will never come close to a return on investment. 
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 24, 2014, 03:04:09 PM
Because then corporations would just build giant data centers dedicated to farming it, and I think it would be a bad idea to put the generation of our currency in their hands.

Not all crytocurrencies can be "farmed" by data centers. Cryptocurrency does not equal Bitcoin. Bitcoin is simply one of many.

Bit coins have a widely fluctuating value.  The faster they get mined, the less they are worth.  A corporation that spends a billion dollars to mine bitcoins will never come close to a return on investment. 

Dave this isn't true, as proven by the company KnCMiner. Also, you can't mine Bitcoins faster, the network won't let you. This is the current pie chart distribution of Bitcoin:

https://blockchain.info/pools

(The "unknown" is KnCMiner, I don't know why they haven't added them yet)

(http://img2.kuriren.nu/public/img/7531297/0321172520.jpg)

KnC's mining farm.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on May 25, 2014, 12:23:56 PM
(http://img2.kuriren.nu/public/img/7531297/0321172520.jpg)

KnC's mining farm.
What a waste of energy. Who makes a currency that destroys the planet?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on May 25, 2014, 02:35:28 PM
Because then corporations would just build giant data centers dedicated to farming it, and I think it would be a bad idea to put the generation of our currency in their hands.

Not all crytocurrencies can be "farmed" by data centers. Cryptocurrency does not equal Bitcoin. Bitcoin is simply one of many.

Bit coins have a widely fluctuating value.  The faster they get mined, the less they are worth.  A corporation that spends a billion dollars to mine bitcoins will never come close to a return on investment. 

Dave this isn't true, as proven by the company KnCMiner. Also, you can't mine Bitcoins faster, the network won't let you. This is the current pie chart distribution of Bitcoin:

https://blockchain.info/pools (https://blockchain.info/pools)

(The "unknown" is KnCMiner, I don't know why they haven't added them yet)

(http://img2.kuriren.nu/public/img/7531297/0321172520.jpg)

KnC's mining farm.

Sorry, I was remembering your post about intel
If Intel were smart, they'd get their R&D department to develop a very powerful miner, and then run R&D as a self-funded enterprise.

Actually from an investment standpoint that'd be really stupid. A company as large as Intel can't afford to risk millions of dollars on R&D and waste precious foundry resources trying to money grab from Bitcoin, especially when their interaction alone could crash the currency because people would wonder if they can trust Intel.

Larger companies will become interested once Bitcoin is larger. Until then they won't touch it with a ten foot pole and I really don't blame them.

and thought it was relevant.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 25, 2014, 03:10:29 PM
(http://img2.kuriren.nu/public/img/7531297/0321172520.jpg)

KnC's mining farm.

There's going to be a whole lotta buthurt soon.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 25, 2014, 03:20:56 PM
What a waste of energy. Who makes a currency that destroys the planet?

No more a waste of energy than digging up gold just to put it in vaults or the printing and transportation of special sheets of paper.

and thought it was relevant.

When you said billions you meant it literally? I assumed you were just making a hyperbole implying all companies would stay away.

There's going to be a whole lotta buthurt soon.

Not sure what this is implying, especially since Bitcoin went up about $170 since their creation of the facility. KnC is currently making about $5 million a day (assuming they sell 100% of their assets).

Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 29, 2014, 09:44:56 PM
http://online.wsj.com/articles/dish-network-to-accept-bitcoin-payments-1401363621

Dish network is rolling out Bitcoin as a payment option.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on May 29, 2014, 09:49:25 PM
If more and more large businesses and services start taking bitcoin as payment, will the currency stabilize?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 29, 2014, 09:56:27 PM
Not sure what this is implying, especially since Bitcoin went up about $170 since their creation of the facility. KnC is currently making about $5 million a day (assuming they sell 100% of their assets).

Those would be the assets specifically tailored to mine bitcoins, and which become redundant in 6 months? Good luck cashing that in.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 29, 2014, 10:09:25 PM
If more and more large businesses and services start taking bitcoin as payment, will the currency stabilize?

I'm not psychic, Dave.

Those would be the assets specifically tailored to mine bitcoins, and which become redundant in 6 months? Good luck cashing that in.

By assets I meant Bitcoin. The machines themselves cost significantly little compared to the money they create. Using KnC's pricing as a gauge, they've already made their investment back.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 29, 2014, 10:12:21 PM
By assets I meant Bitcoin.

Oh. I usually measure assets according to a stable form of currency.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 29, 2014, 10:18:51 PM
Oh. I usually measure assets according to a stable form of currency.

That would leave you incapable of ever measuring assets.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 29, 2014, 10:21:46 PM
Oh. I usually measure assets according to a stable form of currency.

That would leave you incapable of ever measuring assets.

Incorrect. Lets say my laptop is worth £1000. I can depreciate that over 5 years at £200 a year because I can be reasonably sure the £ won't go bat shit insane.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 29, 2014, 10:36:23 PM
Incorrect. Lets say my laptop is worth £1000. I can depreciate that over 5 years at £200 a year because I can be reasonably sure the £ won't go bat shit insane.

It's a shame you don't know what stability is.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on May 29, 2014, 10:43:23 PM
Incorrect. Lets say my laptop is worth £1000. I can depreciate that over 5 years at £200 a year because I can be reasonably sure the £ won't go bat shit insane.

It's a shame you don't know what stability is.

We should pick up this conversation in your weekly FT article.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on May 30, 2014, 04:38:05 PM
http://online.wsj.com/articles/dish-network-to-accept-bitcoin-payments-1401363621

Dish network is rolling out Bitcoin as a payment option.

Good, now Canadians can enjoy US satellite service without the hassle of a US credit card.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on June 06, 2014, 01:53:35 AM
Bitcoin key to future of online payments: EBay CEO

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101734293
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on June 06, 2014, 07:27:17 PM
Bitcoin key to future of online payments: EBay CEO

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101734293

"I think there are two sides of it, the investment side and the digital currency side,"

What a moron. Either its an investment or its a currency. A currency can't be a highly volatile asset. No one would accept it. Who'd sell a computer on ebay for $1000 to find that by the time they got the money it was only worth $700?

Either its volatile and an investment risk, or its a stable currency. It cannot be both.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on June 06, 2014, 07:48:13 PM
I agree. Currency traders need to work with millions of dollars to make any potential profit worth the effort.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on June 07, 2014, 12:57:21 AM
I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Fascinating addition to the thread, Thork. I'm glad we could get it out of the way.

I agree. Currency traders need to work with millions of dollars to make any potential profit worth the effort.

That depends on the currency.

Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 07, 2014, 01:45:11 PM
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/e9/e9a2295b3db9b45c8f5484a09033c1c71cf88e3375bb7ff60456bc81c29a4e04.jpg)
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on June 07, 2014, 03:03:32 PM
Currency traders need to work with millions of dollars to make any potential profit worth the effort.
That's inconsistent with reality. Local currency exchange points are very common in Poland (because of how much the Polish enjoy job tourism, mostly). They need to freeze a few dozen thousand dollars to get things going, but it's a fairly safe business after that.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 07, 2014, 03:48:22 PM
Currency traders need to work with millions of dollars to make any potential profit worth the effort.
That's inconsistent with reality. Local currency exchange points are very common in Poland (because of how much the Polish enjoy job tourism, mostly). They need to freeze a few dozen thousand dollars to get things going, but it's a fairly safe business after that.

True, but what they're trading on is not the fluctuations of a currency but a market need for customers to exchange one currency for another. You probably need a fairly stable currency to do this.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on June 07, 2014, 04:11:05 PM
You probably need a fairly stable currency to do this.
Well, more stable than Bitcoin, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on June 07, 2014, 04:16:45 PM
Bitcoin is the perfect currency. You're all just haters.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on June 07, 2014, 07:17:06 PM
Perfect currency is unstable?  ???
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on June 07, 2014, 07:18:10 PM
I think the real question here is: what the hell is currency?

Imports/exports? If so, if we had a unified world government would currency even be necessary?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 07, 2014, 08:51:56 PM
if we had a unified world government would currency even be necessary?

You still need some kind of abstract means of indicating wealth. Otherwise you're back to swapping sheep for hens for wood for corn for bricks for clothes etc
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on June 07, 2014, 08:55:49 PM
if we had a unified world government would currency even be necessary?

You still need some kind of abstract means of indicating wealth. Otherwise you're back to swapping sheep for hens for wood for corn for bricks for clothes etc

Not if we're the United Federation of Planets.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on June 07, 2014, 08:56:04 PM
I think the real question here is: what the hell is currency?

Imports/exports? If so, if we had a unified world government would currency even be necessary?

Ultimately it is just something that is used for barter on a high frequency basis. No economy has ever truly moved past a barter system, where you expect to receive roughly the same amount you give.

You still need some kind of abstract means of indicating wealth. Otherwise you're back to swapping sheep for hens for wood for corn for bricks for clothes etc

There's no real difference between sheep for hens and sheep for dollars, in fact, from a purely objective standpoint the person receiving the hens is getting a much better deal than the person getting dollars. Chances are high that the person who traded for hens actually needed/wanted hens. No one needs or wants dollars, they want the things that they can trade for dollars.

Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 07, 2014, 09:04:02 PM
There's no real difference between sheep for hens and sheep for dollars,

Personally I consider size and expiration risk a difference. Dollar fold neatly into your pocket. Dollars don't die. Etc.

in fact, from a purely objective standpoint the person receiving the hens is getting a much better deal than the person getting dollars. Chances are high that the person who traded for hens actually needed/wanted hens. No one needs or wants dollars, they want the things that they can trade for dollars.

Not necessarily. I have pigs. You have hens. I want hens. Lets trade. I get hens. You get pigs. You are a Jew/Muslim/Vegetarian. I win. You lose.

People want currency for the fluidity of trade it offers them.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on June 07, 2014, 09:11:20 PM
Personally I consider size and expiration risk a difference. Dollar fold neatly into your pocket. Dollars don't die. Etc.

Dollars get miffed up rather easily. I think I'd have a harder time destroying a hen then I would a dollar.

Not necessarily. I have pigs. You have hens. I want hens. Lets trade. I get hens. You get pigs. You are a Jew/Muslim/Vegetarian. I win. You lose.

Then why would I trade for pigs in the first place? What kind of logic runs in your head? It needs a firmware update.

People want currency for the fluidity of trade it offers them.

It makes trading easier, but not necessarily more fluid, especially between entities trading vast amounts of wealth.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 07, 2014, 09:21:33 PM
Then why would I trade for pigs in the first place? What kind of logic runs in your head? It needs a firmware update.

Because the person selling fire wood wants shoes. And the person selling shoes wants candles. And the person selling candles wants horses. And the person selling horses wants pigs.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on June 07, 2014, 09:25:52 PM
Then why would I trade for pigs in the first place? What kind of logic runs in your head? It needs a firmware update.

Because the person selling fire wood wants shoes. And the person selling shoes wants candles. And the person selling candles wants horses. And the person selling horses wants pigs.

wut
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 07, 2014, 11:50:30 PM
And there our story ends.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on June 08, 2014, 12:06:43 PM
Then why would I trade for pigs in the first place? What kind of logic runs in your head? It needs a firmware update.

Because the person selling fire wood wants shoes. And the person selling shoes wants candles. And the person selling candles wants horses. And the person selling horses wants pigs.
Honestly, I don't think most people did that kind of complex bartering.  Leave that to the merchants.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 08, 2014, 12:28:59 PM
Honestly, I don't think most people did that kind of complex bartering.  Leave that to the merchants.

How can a merchant operate without some kind of abstract means of indicating value?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on June 08, 2014, 01:41:25 PM
Honestly, I don't think most people did that kind of complex bartering.  Leave that to the merchants.

How can a merchant operate without some kind of abstract means of indicating value?
Being a merchant means you can estimate value.
Ex:
Merchant knows that Appleville has lots of apples but almost no pigs.
Merchant also knows that pig town (a few days trip) has lots of pigs.  He also knows that their apple pie festival is next week. 

So the merchant will get apples and trade them for pigs which he will then trade for more apples.  Or vice versa. 
As a merchant he knows the supply and demand of the area he peddles so he can anticipate who would buy what.
Sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 08, 2014, 03:33:10 PM
So the merchant will get apples

How does he get apples? Does he just take them like a theif?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on June 08, 2014, 03:42:54 PM
How does he get apples? Does he just take them like a theif?

I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on June 08, 2014, 08:46:39 PM
So the merchant will get apples

How does he get apples? Does he just take them like a theif?
What Rushy said.
Or he trades them with something else.  Or someone owes him a debt.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 08, 2014, 10:17:58 PM
Or someone owes him a debt.

How do you record that debt?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on June 08, 2014, 10:48:22 PM
How do you record that debt?

On a piece of paper, maybe? How is this relevant?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Sean on June 09, 2014, 01:37:58 AM
This is when a thread should be locked
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on June 09, 2014, 10:13:17 AM
This is when a thread should be locked
Incorrect.
Bitcoins have not crashed in value.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 09, 2014, 09:34:54 PM
How do you record that debt?

On a piece of paper, maybe? How is this relevant?

And how do you stop me writing "Rushy owes me 6000 sheep" on a piece of paper?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on June 09, 2014, 10:27:36 PM
How do you record that debt?

On a piece of paper, maybe? How is this relevant?

And how do you stop me writing "Rushy owes me 6000 sheep" on a piece of paper?
It's called a signature.
We still use it.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on June 10, 2014, 04:27:51 PM
Honestly, I don't think most people did that kind of complex bartering.  Leave that to the merchants.

How can a merchant operate without some kind of abstract means of indicating value?
Being a merchant means you can estimate value.
Ex:
Merchant knows that Appleville has lots of apples but almost no pigs.
Merchant also knows that pig town (a few days trip) has lots of pigs.  He also knows that their apple pie festival is next week. 

So the merchant will get apples and trade them for pigs which he will then trade for more apples.  Or vice versa. 
As a merchant he knows the supply and demand of the area he peddles so he can anticipate who would buy what.
Sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses.

I think Pigville should rethink its choice of festival.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 10, 2014, 09:16:44 PM
It's called a signature.
We still use it.

What's to stop me faking your signature? What's to stop me adding a few zeros?

And what if I want to sell the debt. How do I prove to someone else that it's actually your signature?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on June 10, 2014, 09:55:57 PM
It's called a signature.
We still use it.

What's to stop me faking your signature? What's to stop me adding a few zeros?


And what if I want to sell the debt. How do I prove to someone else that it's actually your signature?
See Checks.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 10, 2014, 10:28:19 PM
See Checks.

You can't fake signatures on cheques? You can't forge amounts on cheques?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on June 10, 2014, 11:01:47 PM
See Checks.

You can't fake signatures on cheques? You can't forge amounts on cheques?

This is not relevant at all to this thread. Please discuss your apprehensive views of debt economics somewhere else.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 11, 2014, 07:43:41 PM
This is not relevant at all to this thread. Please discuss your apprehensive views of debt economics somewhere else.

Incorrect. Vauxy asked this:

if we had a unified world government would currency even be necessary?

The answer seems to be yes.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on June 12, 2014, 01:36:25 AM
This is not relevant at all to this thread. Please discuss your apprehensive views of debt economics somewhere else.

Incorrect. Vauxy asked this:

if we had a unified world government would currency even be necessary?

The answer seems to be yes.

Read the title of the thread.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: junker on June 12, 2014, 09:21:54 PM
Because Rushy:

http://www.usatoday.com/experience/las-vegas/vegas-buzz/the-d-las-vegas-introduces-citys-first-bitcoin-atm/9864615/
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 12, 2014, 10:25:01 PM
This is not relevant at all to this thread. Please discuss your apprehensive views of debt economics somewhere else.

Incorrect. Vauxy asked this:

if we had a unified world government would currency even be necessary?

The answer seems to be yes.

Read the title of the thread.

Irrelevant.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on June 13, 2014, 02:20:36 AM
Because Rushy:

http://www.usatoday.com/experience/las-vegas/vegas-buzz/the-d-las-vegas-introduces-citys-first-bitcoin-atm/9864615/

Those things are pretty awful, though, specifically that company (Robocoin) as they require pretty much all of your personal information, including fingerprints and passport, making the experience very obnoxious. I've heard more stories of Bitcoin ATMs making people hate Bitcoin more than love it because the ATM itself sucks.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on June 13, 2014, 01:05:48 PM
Rushy, how hard will Bitcoin crash once this happens (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27830566)?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 13, 2014, 08:46:23 PM
Its a trap. only crims buy bitcpoins.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on June 13, 2014, 09:47:14 PM
When a criminal is found to have illegally obtained property, isn't it the job of law enforcement to try and return it to its rightful owner?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 13, 2014, 09:57:06 PM
Did he illegally obtain property? He ran an illegal website, but the people who gave him money did so willingly. (As far as I recall)
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on June 13, 2014, 11:00:35 PM
Rushy, how hard will Bitcoin crash once this happens (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27830566)?

Why would Bitcoin crash? They're not selling it on an exchange, they're auctioning the coins. No one with enough money to buy those coins is simultaneously stupid enough to liquidate them on an exchange.

When a criminal is found to have illegally obtained property, isn't it the job of law enforcement to try and return it to its rightful owner?

That depends on whether the law enforcement thinks it will get a better deal by selling them.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on June 15, 2014, 11:58:03 PM
Rushy, do you use your bitcoins to purchase illegal drugs and CP from silk road via the deep web? If so, tutorial please.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on June 16, 2014, 02:34:17 AM
Rushy, do you use your bitcoins to purchase illegal drugs and CP from silk road via the deep web? If so, tutorial please.

No, that's a complete waste. I bet those druggies that bought from silk road when bitcoin was $10 are all crying because "wahh wahh I could have been rich"


Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on June 16, 2014, 03:19:49 AM
Bitcoin seems to be the most popular form of payment on the deepweb for obvious reasons. I have been browsing it out of curiosity and have already seen some pretty fucked up shit. Some things (like hired hitmen) seem like scams, actually... Most of it seems like scams.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Particle Person on June 16, 2014, 03:56:45 AM
Bitcoin seems to be the most popular form of payment on the deepweb for obvious reasons. I have been browsing it out of curiosity and have already seen some pretty fucked up shit. Some things (like hired hitmen) seem like scams, actually... Most of it seems like scams.

Unlikely, since that would be an unnecessarily dangerous way to scam somebody.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on June 16, 2014, 04:00:53 AM
Not when it is mostly anonymous and payments are made before the assassination. No sane person would report that a hired "hitman" stole their upfront payment for an assassination.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Particle Person on June 16, 2014, 04:06:02 AM
I'm not talking about legal consequences. Scammers can scam whomever they please. No matter how protected you think your identity is, it would be best to avoid upsetting people who hire hitmen.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on June 16, 2014, 08:44:12 PM
There are very, very few actual "hitmen" because the scenario usually runs like this: Two fat wankers meet in jail. Fat wankers leave jail. One fat wanker thinks his wife has been cheating. Asks the other fat wanker to kill her. He does. Two fat wankers go back to jail. The end.

Until I see an actual new story where a hitman has been paid by bitcoin (and they must have recieved a fair few payments now) then imma call grade A bullshit.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on June 16, 2014, 09:43:20 PM
There are very, very few actual "hitmen" because the scenario usually runs like this: Two fat wankers meet in jail. Fat wankers leave jail. One fat wanker thinks his wife has been cheating. Asks the other fat wanker to kill her. He does. Two fat wankers go back to jail. The end.

Until I see an actual new story where a hitman has been paid by bitcoin (and they must have recieved a fair few payments now) then imma call grade A bullshit.

The "founder" of the Silk Road has been charged with paying a hitmen to murder someone through the deepweb. This information is available all over the internet. However, they are arguing that no murder was actually committed (the founder apparently did this a few other times), which gives credence to them all being trolls.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Vindictus on June 28, 2014, 04:04:30 AM
What the fuck just happened here? (http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/298fhb/someone_steals_35_bitcoins_from_a_redditor/) I thought bitcoins couldn't be stolen?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on June 28, 2014, 04:05:50 AM
I thought bitcoins couldn't be stolen?

Where did you hear that?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Vindictus on June 28, 2014, 07:29:23 AM
It's in those threads. Every bitcoiner seems to say that all the time.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on June 28, 2014, 04:45:25 PM
Anything can be stolen. Bitcoins are not the exception to the rule. If you really want secure coinage I suggest moving to RonPaulCoin; it's backed by gold and libertarianism.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on June 30, 2014, 02:10:04 PM
It's in those threads. Every bitcoiner seems to say that all the time.

Those threads? Every one of them says it can't be stolen? You're not making any sense. Are you getting your Bitcoin news from fortran?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on July 01, 2014, 04:05:12 PM
NewEgg now takes Bitcoin.

https://twitter.com/newegg/status/483943309564735489

You can't stop the signal.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Vindictus on July 03, 2014, 08:23:17 PM
The way I understood it is that Newegg actually gets cash, guaranteed from a third party that takes bitcoin.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on July 03, 2014, 09:17:50 PM
So you're saying it works like a credit card transaction.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Vindictus on July 04, 2014, 06:37:45 AM
Kind of but not quite. Newegg aren't using bitcoin, and that's the important part.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on July 04, 2014, 02:53:22 PM
The way I understood it is that Newegg actually gets cash, guaranteed from a third party that takes bitcoin.

This is how most businesses take it, via Bitpay or Coinbase. The only large company I know of that keeps some of the coins is Overstock, whose CEO has already proclaimed he plans on expanding the Bitcoin economy considerably.

Ultimately it is irrelevant whether they treat Bitcoin as a payment system or a currency, it is better at both than any other legacy system.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on July 04, 2014, 10:54:00 PM
it is better at both than any other legacy system.

Bold claims grounded in fact.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on July 04, 2014, 11:25:03 PM
From the point of view of the retailer, there are no chargebacks, and the fees are very low in comparison to Visa/MC.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on July 05, 2014, 04:00:45 AM
From the point of view of the retailer they cant price things in bitcoin because its price is highly volatile.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on July 05, 2014, 02:55:52 PM
From the point of view of the retailer they cant price things in bitcoin because its price is highly volatile.

As long as there is an exchange rate the price of bitcoins is irrelevant. Furthermore, price fluctuations are due to the market being small. Since bitcoin is better than any current system, the market will become exponentially bigger and the fluctuations will drop to that of USD (around 1-3%).
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on July 05, 2014, 03:00:55 PM
From the point of view of the retailer they cant price things in bitcoin because its price is highly volatile.

As long as there is an exchange rate the price of bitcoins is irrelevant. Furthermore, price fluctuations are due to the market being small. Since bitcoin is better than any current system, the market will become exponentially bigger and the fluctuations will drop to that of USD (around 1-3%).
Citation needed.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on July 05, 2014, 03:02:52 PM
Citation needed.

You could easily read this thread or google "bitcoin." Bitcoin is better and everyone here will be using it... whether they want to or not.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on July 05, 2014, 10:38:11 PM
As long as there is an exchange rate the price of bitcoins is irrelevant.

Wut. I know its taken me a while, but I'm coming to the conclusion that you're clearly the least qualified person on this site to be giving financial advice. By a long long measure.

Bitcoin is better and everyone here will be using it... whether they want to or not.

*pop*

And with that sound Irushwithscvs disappeared up his own anus.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Vindictus on July 05, 2014, 11:55:43 PM
Haha, oh man. You'd go down well on /r/bitcoin. Go and stir some drama, will you? Then let me post it to /r/subredditdrama.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on July 08, 2014, 07:39:21 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/VDzTvlc.jpg)
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on July 19, 2014, 03:39:58 AM
Dell now takes bitcoin payments.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101849122
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on July 19, 2014, 03:41:28 AM
Dell now takes bitcoin payments.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101849122

One more reason not to use bitcoin.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on July 19, 2014, 03:42:49 AM
One more reason not to use bitcoin.

Bitcoin is the true one world currency. Conspiracy theorists are already convinced that it was created by NWO illuminati ninja agents. That means it has a 100% chance of success, since the illuminati literally control everything. My logic is undeniable.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on July 19, 2014, 01:01:20 PM
Dell now takes bitcoin payments.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101849122
Its because hackers buy dells. 
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on July 19, 2014, 01:43:40 PM
Its because hackers buy dells.

No one with even an ounce of techinical knowledge buy dells, which is why I personally think it is strange that they are attempting to cater to such an audience. Maybe they think bitcoin will truly catch on.

Also, hackers buy Lenovo. I seen't it.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on July 19, 2014, 01:52:56 PM
Its because hackers buy dells.

No one with even an ounce of techinical knowledge buy dells, which is why I personally think it is strange that they are attempting to cater to such an audience. Maybe they think bitcoin will truly catch on.

Also, hackers buy Lenovo. I seen't it.
Honestly, Dells aren't THAT bad.  Of all the pre-built computer manufacturers, Dell is probably the best.  And from personal experience, I've seen Dell PCs last over 10 years and remain usable.  Not very well, mind you, but usable.

But they are mostly for offices and people who just wanna check e-mail and facebook.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on July 19, 2014, 01:59:57 PM
Honestly, Dells aren't THAT bad.  Of all the pre-built computer manufacturers, Dell is probably the best.  And from personal experience, I've seen Dell PCs last over 10 years and remain usable.  Not very well, mind you, but usable.

But they are mostly for offices and people who just wanna check e-mail and facebook.

Dell makes all of its boatloads of cash because they are the best computer supplier to large businesses and the government. Nearly every computer and monitor in my office is Dell. They really know how to mass manufacture their stuff and distribute it, I'll give them that.

But as a personal computer I'd never buy one.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on July 19, 2014, 04:11:27 PM
They're not that bad. Over priced - yes. Pre-installed bloatware - yes. Too vanilla for gaming fanboys - yes. Other than that, pretty OK.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on July 19, 2014, 04:43:08 PM
But you can buy them with bitcoins now.  Who cares how good they are?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on August 30, 2014, 10:32:27 PM
Just made a bitcoin purchase on Newegg and it was surprisingly simple. I'm impressed at how well they've implemented the overall payment process, it even directly integrates with the wallet software stored on my computer. One button click and my wallet asked me to verify the payment information and enter my password. A lot has changed in just a year, I can't wait to see what 2015 will bring.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on August 31, 2014, 06:34:28 PM
I can't wait to see what 2015 will bring.

A long slow decline back to $100?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on August 31, 2014, 06:47:31 PM
A long slow decline back to $100?

Who cares, I just spent all my coin on junk valuable tech equipment from Newegg.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lemon on September 01, 2014, 08:20:26 PM
Death to bitcoin!
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rama Set on September 02, 2014, 02:13:12 PM
A long slow decline back to $100?

Who cares, I just spent all my coin on junk valuable tech equipment from Newegg.

Did you turn a profit on the bitcoin?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on September 02, 2014, 06:39:13 PM
Did you turn a profit on the bitcoin?

No. I instantly refill my bitcoin to make purchases.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on September 02, 2014, 10:45:50 PM
Did you turn a profit on the bitcoin?

No. I instantly refill my bitcoin to make purchases.

Then that wasnt such a good deal on NewEgg.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on September 03, 2014, 01:18:07 AM
Then that wasnt such a good deal on NewEgg.

Considering I got $150 off my order for using Bitcoin, it sort of was a pretty good deal.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on September 03, 2014, 10:56:35 PM
Considering I got $150 off my order for using Bitcoin, it sort of was a pretty good deal.

Their advert says "10% or $100".

So you got 10% off. Did your currency drop more than 10%?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on September 04, 2014, 02:22:51 AM
Their advert says "10% or $100".

So you got 10% off. Did your currency drop more than 10%?

The deal over Labor day was $75 off for purchases over $300 and $150 off for purchases over $500.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: fappenhosen on September 04, 2014, 10:00:30 PM
The deal over Labor day was $75 off for purchases over $300 and $150 off for purchases over $500.

And how much did you spend?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: EnigmaZV on September 05, 2014, 07:32:07 PM
The deal over Labor day was $75 off for purchases over $300 and $150 off for purchases over $500.

And how much did you spend?

My guess would be $750.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: garygreen on September 28, 2014, 07:28:22 PM
http://www.righto.com/2014/09/mining-bitcoin-with-pencil-and-paper.html
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on September 28, 2014, 08:57:43 PM
Yes, it is possible to do mathematical calculations on paper. We're all very impressed.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Particle Person on September 28, 2014, 09:34:02 PM
Yes, it is possible to do mathematical calculations on paper. We're all very impressed.

The truly impressive thing here is your cool indifference.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on September 28, 2014, 09:39:28 PM
Yes, it is possible to do mathematical calculations on paper. We're all very impressed.

The truly impressive thing here is your cool indifference.

Apathy is cool. You should know that better than anyone.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Vindictus on September 28, 2014, 10:55:14 PM
Yes, it is possible to do mathematical calculations on paper. We're all very impressed.

The truly impressive thing here is your cool indifference.

Apathy is cool. You should know that better than anyone.

PP has all the FES girls chasing him.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on September 28, 2014, 10:56:10 PM
Yes, it is possible to do mathematical calculations on paper. We're all very impressed.

The truly impressive thing here is your cool indifference.

Apathy is cool. You should know that better than anyone.

PP has all the FES girls chasing him.
You mean his brother's girlfriend? Ok, this thread just got interesting. Tell me more.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on September 28, 2014, 10:56:45 PM
Yes, it is possible to do mathematical calculations on paper. We're all very impressed.

The truly impressive thing here is your cool indifference.

Apathy is cool. You should know that better than anyone.

PP has all the FES girls chasing him.

PP2**
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Thork on September 28, 2014, 11:01:46 PM
The other PP doesn't get girls. That isn't even remotely plausible. >:(
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: garygreen on September 29, 2014, 12:02:40 AM
Yes, it is possible to do mathematical calculations on paper. We're all very impressed.

This is an oddly antagonistic response.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on September 29, 2014, 12:25:30 AM
I've been down on my quota.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on November 11, 2014, 02:32:30 AM
I bet Rushy's enjoying his investment now.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on November 11, 2014, 02:36:59 AM
I bet Rushy's enjoying his investment now.

Well, considering I bought mine at $60, even if I hadn't sold months ago and I were to have waited until now, I would have still made 630% of my investment. I haven't sold absolutely all of them, though, and I'm just going to hold on to this batch for a few years just to see what happens.

For those of you who aren't aware or don't even know how to look it up, bitcoin's current price is $365.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: jroa on November 11, 2014, 02:27:07 PM
They were over $1000 a few months ago, were they not? 
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on November 11, 2014, 04:40:18 PM
They were over $1000 a few months ago, were they not?

Depends what you think of when you say "a few months ago." The last time they were above $1000 was December 2013/January 2014. I didn't sell while it was above $1000, I sold at about 850 or so.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Vongeo on November 12, 2014, 06:52:09 AM
Do you go wild for bitcoins?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Particle Person on November 18, 2014, 07:33:15 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwvySkrUBlA#t=16

Really powerful stuff.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on November 18, 2014, 08:16:55 AM
Some guy on reddit randomly tipped me 500 panda coin or something. Is this any good?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on November 18, 2014, 01:23:19 PM
Some guy on reddit randomly tipped me 500 panda coin or something. Is this any good?

I don't see it on any of the exchange sites I frequent, so probably not.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on November 18, 2014, 06:00:59 PM
All I can find about it is 1 thread on a bitcoin forum:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=460037.0
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on January 22, 2015, 04:39:24 AM
Bitcoins are worth only $200 a pop now. Buy 'em up while they're cheap! Or expensive. Depends on the future I guess.

Also, how does this thread have so many views?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: jroa on January 22, 2015, 05:49:31 AM
At the rate they are falling, I would have lost what, 80% of my investment if I would have bought them around 6 or 8 months ago?  Does not sound very stable to me.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Ghost of V on January 22, 2015, 06:09:49 AM
I'll buy when they're at $1 a coin.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rama Set on January 22, 2015, 12:56:06 PM
Bitcoins are worth only $200 a pop now. Buy 'em up while they're cheap! Or expensive. Depends on the future I guess.

Also, how does this thread have so many views?

I think people are expecting a Rush Limbaugh AMA
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 08, 2017, 11:22:20 PM
Bitcoins are worth only $200 a pop now. Buy 'em up while they're cheap! Or expensive. Depends on the future I guess.

Bitcoin is now worth $1700 a piece. It turns out the answer was definitely "cheap."

Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on May 15, 2017, 02:25:43 AM
Who is right in the bitcoin civil war? /r/bitcoin or the other one
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 15, 2017, 05:25:15 AM
Who is right in the bitcoin civil war? /r/bitcoin or the other one

I have no idea I unsubscribed from bitcoin related subreddits years ago.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Sean on May 15, 2017, 07:18:35 PM
how much worth of bitcoin do you have in USD
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 15, 2017, 07:43:38 PM
how much worth of bitcoin do you have in USD

Well after an arduous addition of all my assets I've come to the rough estimate of $0.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Boots on May 16, 2017, 12:31:36 AM
Should I buy some bitcoin? If I do what is the best way to go about it? I could just google it but I might get scammed.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on May 16, 2017, 02:28:26 AM
Should I buy some bitcoin? If I do what is the best way to go about it? I could just google it but I might get scammed.

The easiest to use in my experience is Coinbase. I've heard good things about GDAX too.

If you buy bitcoin prepared to lose all of it, as in literally all of it. View it less as free money, and more like you're throwing you're money into a black hole and hoping the Void Gods send you something back.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Boots on May 16, 2017, 04:54:53 AM
Should I buy some bitcoin? If I do what is the best way to go about it? I could just google it but I might get scammed.

The easiest to use in my experience is Coinbase. I've heard good things about GDAX too.

If you buy bitcoin prepared to lose all of it, as in literally all of it. View it less as free money, and more like you're throwing you're money into a black hole and hoping the Void Gods send you something back.

Thnx. I guess I might try some but I won't put all my eggs in the bitcoin basket.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on May 28, 2017, 01:47:42 AM
Should I buy some bitcoin? If I do what is the best way to go about it? I could just google it but I might get scammed.

The easiest to use in my experience is Coinbase. I've heard good things about GDAX too.

If you buy bitcoin prepared to lose all of it, as in literally all of it. View it less as free money, and more like you're throwing you're money into a black hole and hoping the Void Gods send you something back.

Thnx. I guess I might try some but I won't put all my eggs in the bitcoin basket.

You may as well just buy Google shares at this point. It would be safer. And cheaper.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Boots on May 28, 2017, 01:55:39 AM
Should I buy some bitcoin? If I do what is the best way to go about it? I could just google it but I might get scammed.

The easiest to use in my experience is Coinbase. I've heard good things about GDAX too.

If you buy bitcoin prepared to lose all of it, as in literally all of it. View it less as free money, and more like you're throwing you're money into a black hole and hoping the Void Gods send you something back.

Thnx. I guess I might try some but I won't put all my eggs in the bitcoin basket.

You may as well just buy Google shares at this point. It would be safer. And cheaper.
(http://i.imgur.com/c7NJRa2.gif?noredirect)
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Sean on May 28, 2017, 05:31:45 AM
Can you buy like half a bitcoin or you gotta get ghee whole thing
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: junker on May 28, 2017, 01:40:45 PM
Can you buy like half a bitcoin or you gotta get ghee whole thing
You can buy fractions of Bitcoin.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Sean on May 28, 2017, 07:40:12 PM
Cool
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on June 11, 2017, 07:36:35 PM
What's another good cryptocurrency to invest in? Because fuck mining, I'd rather play games.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on June 14, 2017, 01:10:12 AM
What's another good cryptocurrency to invest in? Because fuck mining, I'd rather play games.

Ethereum is doing well right now but I'm wary of it. It's inflation rate is 400% higher than Bitcoin and it's only just seen a large price increase from ~$10 to now ~$400 in the past two months.

Bitcoin is an interesting investment right now, but it's fast approaching a technical hurdle. On August 1st, the majority of Bitcoin nodes will hard fork the chain to integrate a new "space saving" feature called SegWit that will allow more transactions to occur in every block. However, many Bitcoin miners don't support this decision, and if they don't follow the new chain, Bitcoin could collapse in on itself and split off into multiple variations (some using the new version, some staying on the old). The BTC price is being mauled by uncertainty of the future.

Another coin you could look into is Stratis. Basically the same as Ethereum, but codes in C# and .Net instead of C++ and Solidity. The former two are more common languages in modern development circles, so it's an attempt to become prominent by using popular languages.

Siacoin is also interesting, but I'm pretty iffy on the usecase. It could far too easily run into scaling issues.

Monero is another fascinating project that aims to make the transactions perfectly private (as opposed to Bitcoin/Ethereum, where the chained transactions are always public knowledge).

Those are the current ones of the top of my head that aren't just cloned shitcoins (people taking someone's source code and then replacing the name of the coin). e.g. I copy Bitcoin into Rushycoin.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: trekky0623 on July 13, 2017, 02:10:15 PM
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on July 13, 2017, 07:09:41 PM
If I want to make an anonymous purchase, how is Bitcoin better than cash in most cases?
I'll take a stab at this one, even though I'm not Rushy.

In order to pay for something in cash, you have to come in some sort of direct contact with the person you're paying. You're probably meeting up, or the payee is naming a location to mail/drop off the money. In a situation where neither the payee nor the payer want to be identified (say you're buying something dodgy from Silk Road), this can be an issue.

I realise you said "in most cases", but honestly it depends on how you define "anonymous" in the first place. If you only want to be anonymous from third parties, cash is probably fine*, but if you also want to be anonymous from the other party directly involved in a transaction, Bitcoin wins easily.

* - obviously banknotes can be marked, so if you use a banknote that someone previously gave you, you are kind-of-sort-of-maybe identifying yourself. Bitcoin can naturally also be tracked in a similar way, but you are not physically present to make the transaction, so it can only be corroborated with any other information that accompanies the transaction, rather than the transaction itself.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on July 14, 2017, 05:58:47 PM
Because Bitcoin is made to limit itself to 21 million total coins, coin loss is greater than zero, and demand is increasing faster than coins are being produced, Bitcoin is pretty much doomed to be permanently deflationary. If I own Bitcoins, why would I be eager to spend them if I know that they pretty much constantly increase in value right now? What value does Bitcoin have if it's now being used as a currency because of this pressure to save them?

This seems like a strange sentiment. Why would I ever keep my savings in USD if I know it'll devalue over time? I think the easiest answer would be that USD is convenient (and required, if you're a US citizen, to pay taxes). You don't see me spending all of my USD because I know it will be worth less later, likewise, I haven't saved 100% of my Bitcoin simply by virtue of knowing that it will be worth more later.

The blockchain is ever growing in size. If Bitcoin is going to survive for decades, how do we address the issue of the blockchain size? If Bitcoin were suddenly the size of Visa, how would it manage transactions?

The rate of storage costs decreases far faster than the rate of blockchain storage increases. The Bitcoin Blockchain is still under two hundred gigabytes, which is nothing in terms of data storage in this day and age. Also, Bitcoin, as it currently exists, will never support Visa-level amounts of transactions. It simply isn't capable of doing so and the core developers don't seem intent on ever trying to change that.

If I want to make an anonymous purchase, how is Bitcoin better than cash in most cases?

Well first off I'd like to point out that Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous, not anonymous. You can always view transactions between addresses, so if you find out Person A owns Address A, you can rather easily start tying together what their payment history is like. If you want to use a Bitcoin-like system that is fully anonymous, then I'd suggest using Zcash or Monero, both of which have obfuscated blockchain histories that make watching transactions difficult (or even impossible in many cases).

SexWarrior touched on a few issues with cash, but I think an important one is that carrying large volumes of cash across borders is illegal or requires declaration in most countries (where 'large volume' is usually defined as $10,000 or greater). You also avoid things like losing whatever is carrying your cash or having it stolen out of luggage. Bitcoin as a cash substitute is much more secure from theft, though it certainly isn't immune from being stolen.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: trekky0623 on July 14, 2017, 08:41:35 PM
This seems like a strange sentiment. Why would I ever keep my savings in USD if I know it'll devalue over time

Well, first off, US dollars are not nearly as volatile as Bitcoin is right now, so the effects of it's perpetual inflation are not very noticeable. However, the Federal Reserve still seems to think that inflation encourages consumers to spend.

You don't see me spending all of my USD because I know it will be worth less later, likewise, I haven't saved 100% of my Bitcoin simply by virtue of knowing that it will be worth more later.

Well I didn't say all of your Bitcoin. But I have encountered many people online who treat Bitcoins like an investment, hoping they'll increase in value. And for those that have Bitcoin but aren't really "investing," I'd still think that it's deflation would create incentive to save, not spend. What's to stop Bitcoin from entering a deflationary spiral (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation#Deflationary_spiral)? Is Bitcoin just betting on this not existing?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on August 01, 2017, 08:08:14 AM
I am now the proud owner of .05 bitcoin. Mostly to be used for exchanging into shitcoins for fun.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rama Set on August 01, 2017, 12:12:04 PM
Slightly Tangential: Radiolab did a podcast on the creation of the Z-Coin cypher. Pretty interesting js
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on August 24, 2017, 08:03:19 PM
I've now made a little over 500 trading shitcoins after really getting into it last week. When I get to 1 mil I'll cash out, pay my taxes like a good little sod and then teach you shmucks how to do it.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: junker on August 24, 2017, 08:12:04 PM
ive got a data center available if anyone wants to go in on mining

literally free energy and bandwidth
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on August 24, 2017, 08:15:40 PM
ive got a data center available if anyone wants to go in on mining

literally free energy and bandwidth

What kind of hash rate are we talking about?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: junker on August 24, 2017, 09:49:55 PM
ive got a data center available if anyone wants to go in on mining

literally free energy and bandwidth

What kind of hash rate are we talking about?

At the moment, 0. I have a totally empty rack with 220V/30A power and 10Gb internal / 1Gb internet availability. I have a bunch of old servers but no GPUs or ASIC cards.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on August 24, 2017, 10:08:19 PM
ive got a data center available if anyone wants to go in on mining

literally free energy and bandwidth

What kind of hash rate are we talking about?

At the moment, 0. I have a totally empty rack with 220V/30A power and 10Gb internal / 1Gb internet availability. I have a bunch of old servers but no GPUs or ASIC cards.

That would be interesting. A TFES mining pool. I was planning on using bitcoin from trading to buy into a pool anyway.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: disputeone on August 31, 2017, 03:02:41 AM
Should I buy some bitcoin? If I do what is the best way to go about it? I could just google it but I might get scammed.

The easiest to use in my experience is Coinbase. I've heard good things about GDAX too.

If you buy bitcoin prepared to lose all of it, as in literally all of it. View it less as free money, and more like you're throwing you're money into a black hole and hoping the Void Gods send you something back.

Thnx. I guess I might try some but I won't put all my eggs in the bitcoin basket.

You may as well just buy Google shares at this point. It would be safer. And cheaper.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cmo-today-google-issues-fraud-refunds-got-finale-fever-a-lucrative-fight-1503922854

Quote
Google has spent the past several months grappling with a brand safety problem — and now it also has a fraud problem. According to Lara’s bombshell scoop Friday, the digital search and ad giant is issuing refunds to advertisers whose ads landed on sites with fake users, bringing to light the prevalence of one of digital advertising’s biggest flaws. Google’s refunds amount to only a fraction of the cost of the ads served to invalid traffic, which has left some advertising executives unsatisfied, CMO Today reports. Google offered to reimburse its “platform fee,” which ad buyers said typically ranges from about 7% to 10% of their total purchase, and said it’s developing a tool to give advertisers more transparency around their ad buys. The news may soften the blow, but the issue of ad fraud is far from solved. “It’s not that large in terms of a percentage of what people are buying,” Scott Spencer, director of product management for Google, told CMO Today, “but it can be a little bit scary to buyers, and our goal is to remove that to improve the trust overall in the ecosystem.”

https://github.com/dhowe/AdNauseam/wiki/Install-AdNauseam-on-Chrome-Without-Google's-Permission

(https://s26.postimg.org/yfpptwnnt/813.gif)
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on September 13, 2017, 12:42:05 AM
Oh no google is going down oh no.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: millie on September 22, 2017, 09:36:44 AM
What profit can I get with bitcoins? I would like to hear good advice on how to do it. My buddy recommended me to read this article https://bitcoinbestbuy.com/ (https://bitcoinbestbuy.com/). It's written very well and has a lot of details, so I learned a lot of new things, but I want to know the sum of money.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 22, 2017, 02:01:13 PM
What profit can I get with bitcoins? I would like to hear good advice on how to do it.
Wait until it's cheap, then buy, then wait until it's expensive and sell.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on July 12, 2019, 03:51:26 PM
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1149472282584072192

The POTUS mentions Bitcoin by name for the first time in history. The same day, the chairman of the Federal Reserve likens Bitcoin to gold as a store of value.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8M_FZwVar4&feature=youtu.be

Bitcoin is big league now, boys.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Rushy on July 12, 2019, 09:42:14 PM
If Trump endorses it, its fake news and likely to crash any time now.

Dave please learn how to read and then proceed to read a post before commenting on it.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: markjo on July 12, 2019, 10:32:47 PM
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1149472282584072192

The POTUS mentions Bitcoin by name for the first time in history. The same day, the chairman of the Federal Reserve likens Bitcoin to gold as a speculative store of value.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8M_FZwVar4&feature=youtu.be
Fixed that for you, because speculation is always a good investment strategy.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Пардисфла on July 13, 2019, 11:46:41 AM
Quote
The POTUS mentions Bitcoin by name for the first time in history

Am I missing something?  Because either Trump is endorsing bitcoin or he's attacking it.  He doesn't have another mode.  So he attacked it?

Have you tried clicking the link immediately above the paragraph you quoted to see what he actually said?
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Lord Dave on July 13, 2019, 12:29:00 PM
Quote
The POTUS mentions Bitcoin by name for the first time in history

Am I missing something?  Because either Trump is endorsing bitcoin or he's attacking it.  He doesn't have another mode.  So he attacked it?

Have you tried clicking the link immediately above the paragraph you quoted to see what he actually said?
No.

-ok, so he attacked it.
Great.  I'll go delete my shitposting now.
Title: Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
Post by: Fortuna on July 14, 2019, 12:45:14 AM
What profit can I get with bitcoins? I would like to hear good advice on how to do it.
Wait until it's cheap, then buy, then wait until it's expensive and sell.

You've got it twisted homie. Buy high, sell low. That's how most people do it.