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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #200 on: March 06, 2014, 08:21:19 PM »
Its not a currency. We established this already.
We really haven't. We've established that you don't think it's one.
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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #202 on: March 06, 2014, 08:54:37 PM »
By that logic, Taiwan is not a country because several countries do not consider it to be one. Same goes for North Korea, I guess. Let's stop worrying about them making nukes, they don't even exist!

That is to say, your logic needs to be brushed up. You're better than that, Thork. You know better than to make arguments from authority.

I'm not quite as driven as you were in your Google spree, but here's an example of one government that does consider it to be a currency: http://abnk.assembly.ca.gov/sites/abnk.assembly.ca.gov/files/AB_129_0_ABPCA_CX27_Dickinson_RN_SN_20140107_FAROUKMA_20140121_FN_R092121.pdf
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 08:56:56 PM by pizaaplanet »
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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #203 on: March 06, 2014, 09:05:42 PM »
here's an example of one government that does consider it to be a currency: http://abnk.assembly.ca.gov/sites/abnk.assembly.ca.gov/files/AB_129_0_ABPCA_CX27_Dickinson_RN_SN_20140107_FAROUKMA_20140121_FN_R092121.pdf
Which government? Your source states the laws on alternative currencies. It certainly doesn't go so far as to quantify Bitcoin as one. In fact it doesn't even mention Bitcoin. Bitcoin is only mentioned in the comments which were cobbled together by some guy call Mark Farouk. Not by the ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE ON BANKING AND FINANCE as your .pdf disingenuously implies.

C'mon, you're better than that. Make an effort to read your source before posting it.

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #204 on: March 06, 2014, 09:36:47 PM »
Your source states the laws on alternative currencies. It certainly doesn't go so far as to quantify Bitcoin as one. In fact it doesn't even mention Bitcoin.
I challenge you to find one legal act, in any country, that references Bitcoin by name in its literal text.

But, since you want a source that's been carefully processed for you, here you go <3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_Bitcoins_by_country
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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #205 on: March 06, 2014, 09:38:35 PM »
No, I don't want to know where they are legal. I want to know where they are considered a currency. Please stop moving the goalposts.

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #206 on: March 06, 2014, 09:39:45 PM »
I want to know where they are considered a currency.
C'mon, you're better than that. Make an effort to read the source before commenting about it.
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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #207 on: March 06, 2014, 09:40:57 PM »
In which country are they CONSIDERED A CURRENCY?

Your source does not provide that information.

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #208 on: March 06, 2014, 09:47:23 PM »
In which country are they CONSIDERED A CURRENCY?

Your source does not provide that information.
Actually, it does, but since you won't bother reading it: Germany and the United States are notable examples. I already showed you a California law about alternative currencies (of which Bitcoin is one, but you pretended that it's not one).

I'll take pity on you and stop trolling you for a moment. It would seem that you've picked a very specific definition of "currency", but failed to specify it, which is what is stopping you from succeeding here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency

If by "currency" you mean "banknotes", then Bitcoin is not a currency, and neither is the money you store with Best Bank Plc. If you mean a system of money, then it is one, by the virtue of it being used as one.
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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #209 on: March 06, 2014, 09:54:57 PM »
You have shown where bitcoin is legal. That nations accept alternative currencies. That people can trade bitcoins.

What you haven't shown anywhere, is that anyone other than you and Rushy consider Bitcoin as a currency. Absolutely no nation on earth has said "yes, its a bonafide currency". Not one.

either retract
Its not a currency. We established this already.
We really haven't. We've established that you don't think it's one.
or provide a source where bitcoin has been accepted as a currency by any official body, nation, bank or financially regulated establishment.

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #210 on: March 06, 2014, 09:59:02 PM »
Bitcoin is an alternative currency. I showed you nations that accept alternative currencies as currencies.

Now, please fulfill the following requests:
I challenge you to find one legal act, in any country, that references Bitcoin by name in its literal text.
Make an effort to read the source before commenting about it.

In addition to that, specify which definition of "currency" you're arguing against.

provide a source where bitcoin has been accepted as a currency by any official body, nation, bank or financially regulated establishment.
k m8
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/11/22/cyprus-university-first-to-accept-bitcoins-for-tuition/
EDIT: Or straight from the source: http://www.unic.ac.cy/digitalcurrency
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 10:00:41 PM by pizaaplanet »
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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #211 on: March 06, 2014, 10:10:03 PM »
You haven't proved anyone accepts bitcoin as an alternative currency. You just keep going around in circles.

As for a Cypriot university they aren't a financial institution. You're just getting desperate now. You had 200 odd central banks, 1000s of regulators and quangos, thousands of commercial banks, the IMF, ECB or anyone else and NOT ONE OF THEM CONSIDERS BITCOIN AS A CURRENCY. I can exchange pheasants for vegetables at my local farm but that doesn't make a pheasant a unit of currency. Its called bartering. That is what the university is doing. Trading a service for a commodity. A university cannot decree bitcoin a currency. It has to be a financial body.

I'll take that as an admission of failure on your part. Don't post anything else unless it is someone making bitcoin a currency by law.

Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #212 on: March 06, 2014, 10:23:28 PM »
In which country are they CONSIDERED A CURRENCY?

Your source does not provide that information.
Actually, it does, but since you won't bother reading it: Germany and the United States are notable examples.

If Germany accepts bitcoin as a currency, then why is it that if you go to a currency exchange there, you have to pay VAT to exchange bitcoin for euros, but not US dollars, or any other country's legal tender?
Quote from: Saddam Hussein
I don't know what you're implying, but you're probably wrong.

Thork

Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #213 on: March 06, 2014, 10:28:30 PM »
In which country are they CONSIDERED A CURRENCY?

Your source does not provide that information.
Actually, it does, but since you won't bother reading it: Germany and the United States are notable examples.

If Germany accepts bitcoin as a currency, then why is it that if you go to a currency exchange there, you have to pay VAT to exchange bitcoin for euros, but not US dollars, or any other country's legal tender?
Why is bitcoin subject to Capital gains tax? Currencies aren't.

Gold is. Gold coins with a currency value aren't.
http://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold-coins/britannia-1oz-gold-coin/2014-gold-britannia-one-ounce-coin/

Note distinction between currency and commodity.

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #214 on: March 06, 2014, 10:38:45 PM »
Currencies are subject to capital gains tax. If I convert USD to EUR and EUR gains value, then I convert EUR back to USD. Then boom, I've just made a capital gain and I have to report it on my taxes.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/988

The only time it doesn't count as a gain or loss is if the exchange rate didn't change. I.E. instant currency conversions. If I hold EUR for a long time and then convert it, it qualifies as capital gains (or loss), and not income.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 10:43:44 PM by Irushwithscvs »

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #215 on: March 06, 2014, 10:53:35 PM »
No. Foreign currencies are capital gains exempt. Trading stock is not.

I can go on holiday, make a killing from a currency exchange rate an no capital gains tax. Trading is different because its the only way a government can tax professional currency traders.

Bitcoin however always attracts capital gains tax, once the threshold is met. It isn't exempt in any way like foreign currencies. As you are lazy, I will quote for you
Quote from: http://www.capitalgainsallowance.com/capital-gains-tax-exemption/
There are a number of different assets which when disposed of, never attract capital gains tax, because the assets themselves are actually exempt. Examples of this include the foreign currency you purchase for yourself or your relatives whilst spending time abroad

and

Quote from: http://www.capitalgainsallowance.com/capital-gains-tax-exemption/
this transaction will be exempt from capital gains tax, so long as two conditions have been met. These are that the gift is not a form of trading stock which you have purchased for the purposes of reselling

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #216 on: March 06, 2014, 10:57:31 PM »
As for a Cypriot university they aren't a financial institution.
They're an official body, and a financially-regulated institution. I fulfilled your request, and doubly so. Meanwhile, you're ignoring mine. I think it's clear who's failing to admit things here. <3
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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #217 on: March 06, 2014, 11:01:58 PM »
If Germany accepts bitcoin as a currency, then why is it that if you go to a currency exchange there, you have to pay VAT to exchange bitcoin for euros, but not US dollars, or any other country's legal tender?
Presumably because purchases in Bitcoins are VAT-exempt in Germany (http://www.frank-schaeffler.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/2013_09_27-Antwort-Koschyk-Bitcoin3.pdf), but given that European countries are fixing that problem now (e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26426550) I don't think we'll have to worry about it for much longer.

EDIT: Oh, it looks like your information is outdated. Germany took care of that law already: http://www.welt.de/finanzen/article120823372/Zahlungen-mit-Bitcoins-sind-umsatzsteuerfrei.html
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 11:05:17 PM by pizaaplanet »
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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #218 on: March 06, 2014, 11:02:04 PM »
As for a Cypriot university they aren't a financial institution.
They're an official body, and a financially-regulated institution. I fulfilled your request, and doubly so. Meanwhile, you're ignoring mine. I think it's clear who's failing to admit things here. <3
When I talk about institutions, I mean Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan Chase. Not the Royal Society of West Yorkshire Morris Dancers who happen to have got their tax form in on time this year.

You have failed to prove it is a currency. You merely gave an example of it being used for barter.

What have you asked me to provide? I gave you a half dozen sources saying its not a currency. That's the basis for the argument. Its the only thing I have asked you to retract.

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Re: Ask Rushy about Bitcoins.
« Reply #219 on: March 06, 2014, 11:06:18 PM »
You have failed to prove it is a currency. You merely gave an example of it being used for barter.
Right, this confirms beyond a doubt that you're using an obscure definition of currency.

What have you asked me to provide?
The definition of "currency" as you're using in your claims. A law document referring to Bitcoins by name in its literal text.
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