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Offline RonJ

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Re: Seeing the curvature of the Earth directly
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2019, 04:42:39 PM »
Anyone who believes that the Suez Canal can only happen on a flat earth doesn't really understand the way water really works.  I've actually been thru the Suez canal countless times, in both directions.  I always observe sea level on both sides.  What is meant by sea level is just the distance between the surface of the ocean and the center of the spherical earth.  As long as that distance is identical at each point along the canal, no water will flow. 

It seems that the flat earth people are always is confused with exactly what 'down hill' really means. Where water is concerned, 'down hill' means a lessening of the distance between any drop of water and the center of the earth.  As long as that 'center distance' is the same at all points no water will flow. 

I did go to school and I did learn a trade.  We learned about pumps, pipes, nozzles, and lots of other interesting stuff.  There were also some lessons about the properties of water.  In one of those lessons I learned that water will always flow in the direction of the net force vector.  You can have water sit nice and flat and not flow on the surface of a spherical earth as long as the distance between the water's surface and the center of the earth is the same at all points along the way. 

If you want to do a Zetetic experiment look at the elevation of the head of any river, like the Mississippi River, and the elevation at the mouth.  You will always find that the distance between the start of the river and the center of the earth is a bit longer than at the end of the river.  Water in the river will ALWAYS flow to a spot closer to the center of the earth as long as there are no other external forces involved, like hurricanes, or tides. 

If you don't believe that, then just cite an example where water flows in some other direction than the net applied force vector.  If you can't find a valid example, then you have to believe that the earth really could be spherical even after observing what is happening on the Suez Canal.
For FE no explanation is possible, for RE no explanation is necessary.

Re: Seeing the curvature of the Earth directly
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2019, 06:35:06 PM »
No one is seeing any curvature because it doesn't exist. Lets present the History Channel facts when building the Suez Canal. 120 miles long connecting to different seas with no difference in elevation at opposing ends. In a fake curved earth there should be a 9,600 ft. drop at one sea entrance. That's OVER 1.8 miles of curve. Not there folks, wasn't built for curvature and as History Channel explains "The surveyors’ faulty calculations were enough to scare Napoleon away from the project, and plans for a canal stalled until 1847, when a team of researchers finally confirmed that there was no serious difference in altitude between the Mediterranean and Red Seas."

So please stop the madness, you've been programmed.

https://www.history.com/news/9-fascinating-facts-about-the-suez-canal

OK, try this experiment at home. Take a basketball and a sugar cube and a ruler. Place the sugar cube on top of the basketball. Measure the elevation (height) of the sugar cube - about 1cm correct? Now place the sugar cube on the side of the basketball. Measure its elevation - about 1cm right? Or is your definition of elevation somehow different or perhaps your sugar cube mysteriously grows when you move it.

As a licensed builder you might want to take that stupid idea once step further. Since we are talking about building a 120 mile long canal based on a datum line.

NOW take a string of dental floss and stretch it tightly from the two sugary cubes. Bummer fricking basketball in the way to get a straight plum line. Learn to read the article, learn a trade, something as simple as masonry where string lines are mandatory with levels.

Absolutely agree, the basketball is getting in the way. Let's scale that up, so try stretching 10,000km of dental floss between two tall towers and you are going to find the fricking earth getting in the way too.

Your argument is that one part of the canal is 9,600 ft lower than the other. But which end is it then? The question is meaningless on a globe - take a picture of a basketball against a plain background and tell me where the top is. Depends entirely on the orientation of the camera. A sphere on its own without reference to something doesn't have a top or a bottom so there is no lower or higher either. Sure, through an accident of history, if you buy a standard globe and put it on a desk, the northern hemisphere is "above" the southern with respect to the desk, but buy a dual axis globe and you can turn it around to put Australia on top if you like. Just as valid.

So take your dual axis globe, turn it around so the Western end of the canal is on top and the Eastern end is "lower" (simply meaning nearer the desk), now adjust it so the Eastern end of the canal is at the top. Hey presto the Western end is "lower". Both perfectly valid viewpoints, but meaningless since there is no external reference point to determine which hemisphere is up and which is down.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Seeing the curvature of the Earth directly
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2019, 04:35:39 AM »
I saw a nice program on the Apollo 8 mission.  The idea was to navigate to the moon, orbit and come back without landing.  In order to navigate a sextant was installed so the earth & a navigational star could be observed and the spacecraft could be properly positioned along the route.  The black & white image on the lower right shows a nice view of the earth.  Even if the lens was dubbed as a 'fish eye' it wouldn't matter.  You can see the whole globe.
 
https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/24619/was-the-apollo-sextant-used-or-tested-to-determine-position-while-in-earth-orb

I believe that the whole series of photographs of the periscope view is available on PeriscopeFile.com

Is this another example of the NASA lies?  If that's not the case then you will have to disbelieve your eyes as the pictures clearly show the form of the earth.
 
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 07:22:24 AM by RonJ »
For FE no explanation is possible, for RE no explanation is necessary.

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Offline Bad Puppy

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Re: Seeing the curvature of the Earth directly
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2019, 07:39:38 PM »
The earth is observably flat by default.

No. Objects don't have a default shape, smell, colour, or anything.  The an observer of an object will define its properties through observation, measurement, or other means of identification.  If any properties an object are later learned to be incorrect, usually due to advances in science, then those properties are redefined.

Like, the earth was observed to be flat.  Then we went to space and saw that it's not flat, and instead is actually an oblate spheroid.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
...circles do not exist and pi is not 3.14159...

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Do you have any evidence of reality?

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Seeing the curvature of the Earth directly
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2019, 08:03:33 PM »
I agree that it is difficult to actually see the earth's curvature by looking at the horizon.  The 'sinking ship' effect seems to be somewhat controversial on this site.  Why not just short circuit that whole argument and look at something in the sky, the North Star for example?

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9797.msg175959#msg175959

When you look at this post you will see that the mathematics just won't work out unless the earth is spherical.  This is a direct observation of the curvature of the earth by observing something above the earth and not on the earth. 
For FE no explanation is possible, for RE no explanation is necessary.

Re: Seeing the curvature of the Earth directly
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2019, 09:47:26 PM »
Like, the earth was observed to be flat.  Then we went to space and saw that it's not flat, and instead is actually an oblate spheroid.
We'd actually, as a species, long since worked that out.
But yes, since the late 1940's when we've had rocket technology we have been able to confirm it with observations were there any lingering doubt.
That should have killed the flat earth theories stone dead but in a fit of cognitive dissonance which psychologists could write entire books about they just declared every single photo and video from space from every country fake.
"This is literally just a few people talking about it for a brief time every day on their spare time. That’s the flat earth movement" - Tom Bishop

Re: Seeing the curvature of the Earth directly
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2019, 07:38:16 PM »
Any footage taken from an SR-71 or U-2, the thousands of pictures/video taken from space, that directTV channel that shows the planet we live on spinning, seeing the top of a ship on the horizon before the entirety of the ship, actually SEEING the curvature at sea. All evidence to the contrary of your theory. If you try to shoot something from a mile away, why does the bullet veer left or right in a predictable manner(depending on the direction you are facing when the bullet leaves the muzzle)?That’s the Coriolis effect, and any combat sniper can tell you it’s real. That’s just a start and anyone with common sense and a functioning brain would see that’s an awful lot of covering up by a lot of people(as I’m sure that will be your defense) to accomplish nothing more than proving your theory wrong.