*

Offline ElTrancy

  • *
  • Posts: 483
  • God help and forgive me
    • View Profile
Resources and time
« on: January 04, 2019, 04:02:09 PM »
A common "explanation" of why there are no definitive maps or measurements for a flat Earth is Tom and his team don't have the time or resources. I'm gonna quote my science teacher on this one. "If you are not willing to put in the time, then your hypothesis is virtually useless." The internet is a powerful resource, and can easily be used by anyone on this site. There are probably tens of thousands of people who you can connect with at any point in time. Here's a great way to use this resource: break up the time, and resources required among hundreds of members across the world. Instead of one person doing all the work, I'm sure hundreds, thousands even, could easily take the time to combine their information. If the Flat Earth society has the time to create a meeting, and multiple websites, then they have time to gather people and find out if the world is actually spherical, or history for the past 2000 years has been wrong.
Please fucking launch a mininuke at me, I've become hopelessly lost.

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 9385
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2019, 05:45:36 PM »
We have. There's no need to create a map to establish this simple fact. Your issue appears to be that you want us to use our resources extremely inefficiently for your own satisfaction. I suggest that you manage your own resources however you please, but perhaps stay out of how others manage their own time.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Facebook and Twitter!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

Offline ChrisTP

  • *
  • Posts: 321
    • View Profile
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2019, 06:00:50 PM »
We have. There's no need to create a map to establish this simple fact. Your issue appears to be that you want us to use our resources extremely inefficiently for your own satisfaction. I suggest that you manage your own resources however you please, but perhaps stay out of how others manage their own time.
It is an interesting suggestion though, a big collaboration project like that can be done with people who think the earth is flat or round but then if one cannot trust scientific data then how can one trust random internet people? The data could easily be skewed by trolls or people with bias views. It's a conundrum for the average flat earther as you'd end up having to do all the work for yourself just to confirm other peoples findings and that just isn't possible in one persons lifetime.

though the modern structure of human society is somewhat teamwork. You trust a factory worker you've never met to assemble your mobile phones, you trust people to make your clothes for you. You trust a doctor who prescribes you treatment for whatever illnesses you may end up with. In the end, every human really does this for their own gain (mostly) but it's teamwork nonetheless. Team Earth could map the world in a day using modern technology and communications but I think the vast majority of the world population would be unwilling to help unless they gain something too.

Anyway, if somehow TFES managed to get someone from every city and corner of the earth to participate for maybe a day, how would you utilise this group of people to map the world? If it's not possible with that many people spread out within a day, I don't think it would ever happen without individual incentive.

*

Offline ElTrancy

  • *
  • Posts: 483
  • God help and forgive me
    • View Profile
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2019, 06:11:45 PM »
We have. There's no need to create a map to establish this simple fact. Your issue appears to be that you want us to use our resources extremely inefficiently for your own satisfaction. I suggest that you manage your own resources however you please, but perhaps stay out of how others manage their own time.

Without a map you can never accurately prove a lot of given "evidence" like how sun and moon cycles work, distances between places. Unless the majority agree on the same exact map, then how can round earther's take you seriously?
Please fucking launch a mininuke at me, I've become hopelessly lost.

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 9385
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2019, 06:26:37 PM »
how can round earther's take you seriously?
Why would that be a priority? Our movement is growing. People realise the value of direct observation and trusting what they can verify by themselves. Why should we care about those who'd rather blindly follow what they're told? It won't matter. It won't change their minds, and it will have wasted our time.

The other day, a fairly large Twitter pop-sci account reposted That Everest Photo as an argument against us. This garnered thousands of positive responses, as per usual. Any responses that accurately pointed out the optics involved were met with ridicule by mindless drones who only care about feeling smug, regardless of how correct they might be. After all, a member of a tribe that isn't my own can't ever be right.

Why would we care about whether or not those people "take us seriously"?
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Facebook and Twitter!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

shootingstar

Re: Resources and time
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2019, 12:13:24 AM »
Couldn't agree with you more Pete. Why should it matter whether people take you seriously or not. We are all entitled to think what we want aren't we. You mention that your movement is growing which reminds me to ask you again how many members you have exactly.

I completely agree with you that direct observation and trusting what you can verify yourself is important.  My observations tell me one thing, yours tell you another. I certainly don't simply trust what I am told or everything I read. That would be somewhat naïve wouldn't it. I make my mind up according to what I think rather than what others tell me and I seem to be getting along just fine up to now.

Offline edby

  • *
  • Posts: 1066
    • View Profile
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2019, 09:39:24 AM »
Why would we care about whether or not those people "take us seriously"?
However you might consider whether you want the scientific establishment to take you seriously. Let’s consider why you might.

Your example firmly demonstrates that in social media, many ‘round earthers’ have as weak a grasp of the scientific method as the ‘flat earthers’. (I don’t like that flat earth/round earth distinction, I prefer the distinction between those who fully grasp and practice the scientific method, and those who don’t).

1. The establishment controls all teaching and education, and thus controls how many people think throughout their life.
2. The establishment acquires significant funding for ‘research’ projects that further strengthen its grip on society.
3. The establishment has significant influence in the media.

To break this control, you need to engage the establishment on its own terms. A few well-crafted papers addressing the basic facts would be enough. For example, a study of aircraft routes and flight times should be enough to show whether the geometry proposed by the establishment is correct.

People realise the value of direct observation and trusting what they can verify by themselves.
Absolutely. Why not put those facts into a research paper?
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 09:41:26 AM by edby »

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 9385
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2019, 10:18:27 AM »
edby, I don't think this is a job for the Flat Earth Society. In my personal life, I already do some work to try and make an impact on higher education (like you, I also don't focus on RE vs FE, but rather on independent thinking and the students' ability to solve their own problems without becoming overly dependent on authorities). It's but a drop in the sea, but hey, it's something. I strongly doubt that bringing the FES badge into these efforts would help - rather, the siege mentality of the establishment would act to everyone's detriment.

The FES are doing great at engaging the media, and those directly reach a very wide audience. Those who cannot be taught respond with mockery, sure, but for every however many scoffers, we get one or two people who realise the benefits of our way of thinking. We might not be able to single-handedly fix the world, but we're still happy to contribute.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 10:22:55 AM by Pete Svarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Facebook and Twitter!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

shootingstar

Re: Resources and time
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2019, 10:36:29 AM »
Pete, you say that the FES is doing great at engaging the media but away from this website I don't hear anyone talking about it on mainstream TV or radio.  The FE movement seems to be very small in the context of the worlds developed population and this is perhaps an example of them exercising what you would probably call their right to independent thought. They are making up their own minds as you do. Through specific channels I am sure the FE movement is doing great.  What do you think IS the job of the FES? To try to persuade more people over to your point of view or to simply state your point of view and then leave it to others to make up their own minds.

I have watched many BBC documentaries over the Christmas and New Year period featuring several very prominent and well known presenters. Sir David Attenborough being one of them and if anyone has seen a lot of all parts of the world Sir David is one of them.  At no point, to the best of my knowledge has he ever mentioned about the Earth being flat. His present concerns and rightly so in my mind are more focused towards how the use and discarding of plastics across the world is impacting the natural world and its subsequent effect on climate change for future generations.

Sir David is not a one man band of course and he is one small part of a very large team of background researchers to name but a few. I have never heard them mock any of the views that you support.  Come to think of it I haven't heard them mention anything about a FET.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 10:44:26 AM by shootingstar »

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 9385
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2019, 10:41:04 AM »
Pete, you say that the FES is doing great at engaging the media but away from this website I don't hear anyone talking about it on mainstream TV or radio.
I can't help you with that. If you don't want to read our media coverage, I won't force you. If you do, it's a quick Google News search away.

Edit: there is also this list, which I last updated in February of 2018. Perhaps I should pick it back up.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 10:43:29 AM by Pete Svarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Facebook and Twitter!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

Offline edby

  • *
  • Posts: 1066
    • View Profile
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2019, 11:03:34 AM »
Pete, you say that the FES is doing great at engaging the media but away from this website I don't hear anyone talking about it on mainstream TV or radio.
I can't help you with that. If you don't want to read our media coverage, I won't force you. […]
I don't think shootingstar is asking for your help. He is suggesting perhaps that FES public relations is not working as well as it might. I.e. he is not hearing anything on mainstream TV or radio, which is still the touchstone of a successful media campaign, like it or not.

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 9385
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2019, 11:15:43 AM »
No, a single individual's reach is not a touchstone of any campaign - that's nonsense. It's the numbers that count. Perhaps unsurprisingly, shootingstar is exactly the type of person I already highlighted as not a priority.

Since he seems to be located in the UK, he had every chance of, for example, watching the BBC making fun of us on Have I Got News For You, and of listening to some of my live interviews on talkRADIO within the last year. But, again, I can't force him to follow our coverage. It doesn't make it any less present or impactful.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 11:21:24 AM by Pete Svarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Facebook and Twitter!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

shootingstar

Re: Resources and time
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2019, 11:21:18 AM »
And why would that be then Pete.  Are you belittling me just because I don't happen to agree with you?  That is the starting point for healthy debate surely.  I have checked through a few of the links in that list that you have kindly pointed to.  Not all entirely in favour of FE theory if you ask me. 

Offline edby

  • *
  • Posts: 1066
    • View Profile
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2019, 11:21:23 AM »
No, a single individual's reach is not a touchstone of any campaign - that's nonsense. It's the numbers that count. Perhaps unsurprisingly, shootingstar is exactly the type of person I already highlighted as not a priority.
I didn't say that. I said that the mark of a successful campaign is to get (positive) coverage in the mass media. And yes it is the numbers that count.

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 9385
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2019, 11:22:52 AM »
But I already demonstrated we get that coverage before you made your point. Are you just agreeing with me while maintaining a tone of disagreement?
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Facebook and Twitter!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

shootingstar

Re: Resources and time
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2019, 11:26:12 AM »
Yes but not all that coverage seems to be entirely supportive of FE does it.  Having media coverage is one thing but more than anything else in the world, the media is capable of making its own mind up about what it supports and what it doesn't.

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 9385
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2019, 11:29:43 AM »
Yes but not all that coverage seems to be entirely supportive of FE does it.
We've already dealt with this.

The FES are doing great at engaging the media, and those directly reach a very wide audience. Those who cannot be taught respond with mockery, sure, but for every however many scoffers, we get one or two people who realise the benefits of our way of thinking. We might not be able to single-handedly fix the world, but we're still happy to contribute.

The coverage does not have to be supportive of us for it to spread awareness and allow the right type of person to evaluate the movement.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Facebook and Twitter!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

Offline edby

  • *
  • Posts: 1066
    • View Profile
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2019, 12:33:23 PM »
But I already demonstrated we get that coverage before you made your point. Are you just agreeing with me while maintaining a tone of disagreement?
Oh I see. You were contradicting his claim that there is little mainstream coverage, adding that if he can't be bothered to access that coverage, you can't help. Fair enough, and I stand corrected.


shootingstar

Re: Resources and time
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2019, 12:45:21 PM »
Quote
The coverage does not have to be supportive of us for it to spread awareness

No doesn't but non-supportive publicity is hardly going to spread awareness in the way that you want it to is it.  I thought that the point of advertising and marketting a product is to increase the size of that market. There is the old saying that you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

Funding is a huge help to many of the larger societies in the world. It gives them spending power to put toward advertising campaigns etc. Unless it was different in the past (before I knew of its existence at least) I wonder how many people who have joined FES would have done so if they had to pay a subscription to it? 


« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 12:48:16 PM by shootingstar »

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6364
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2019, 12:51:58 PM »
I don't care if the people who come here are supportive or not. If someone wants to do hours of research for us on a topic, to describe and expose phenomenon, that is fine with me. All of it is helpful.

What is not helpful is deliberate deception, however, and those people should be banned.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 12:53:38 PM by Tom Bishop »