Re: Resources and time
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2019, 12:57:57 PM »
Who is deceiving you Tom.  Having a different opinion is not deception and there are no grounds for banning someone just because they disagree with you.

Offline edby

  • *
  • Posts: 1066
    • View Profile
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2019, 01:23:44 PM »
I don't care if the people who come here are supportive or not. If someone wants to do hours of research for us on a topic, to describe and expose phenomenon, that is fine with me. All of it is helpful.

What is not helpful is deliberate deception, however, and those people should be banned.
Of course. But saying something in the belief that it is true is not deception even if the belief turns out to be false.

Re: Resources and time
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2019, 06:41:58 PM »
I don't care if the people who come here are supportive or not. If someone wants to do hours of research for us on a topic, to describe and expose phenomenon, that is fine with me. All of it is helpful.

What is not helpful is deliberate deception, however, and those people should be banned.
We should discuss what it required to determine the shape and size of a large object like the earth.  Measurements of lengths and angles is a good start.  Ideas please.

Re: Resources and time
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2019, 07:23:09 PM »
Isn't that exactly what Eratosthenes did all that time ago and came to a value for the circumference of the Earth that was remarkably close to the modern measured value?   His method involved measuring distances and angles.

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2019, 08:42:26 AM »
how can round earther's take you seriously?
Why would that be a priority? Our movement is growing.

The movement may be growing, but according to Alexa, this society is trending the other way. However, you may have social media metrics that make up for it, not sure. Personally, I think Alexa ranks are anecdotal and have become the 'Neilsons' of the web. So taken with a grain of salt.


*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8665
  • (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2019, 01:07:35 PM »
It's a shame the graph only goes back so far. As with many nebulous statistics, you can draw more or less whatever picture you'd like. Something like a 12-18 months ago, we experienced a sudden spike from the 200k+ range to 80-90k. What you're seeing is not a downward trend, but the end of a boom that honestly shouldn't have happened in the first place. Some of my tweets garnered a little bit more attention than they should have, which generated a bunch of media buzz.

Here's a longer-term trend on Google Analytics, data only for the FE wiki (our most-visited service by far), with monthly granularity.



Of course, I do acknowledge that we're not currently on the front page of Reddit as we were on the 16th of March 2018 (that day alone is responsible that March spike), but even then I think it's fair to say that the past 2 years have been good for us :)

I have access to a good amount of stats - if there's something specific you'd like to know, I'd be happy to look it up.

Our social media accounts have been growing steadily and stably, with much more success on Twitter than Facebook:
https://socialblade.com/twitter/user/flatearthorg/monthly
https://socialblade.com/facebook/page/flatsoc

That's my own fault. I find Twitter much more intuitive from a creator's perspective.

On a separate note, I (and I suspect others) have no intention of trying to monopolise the FE movement. I'm happy to make a contribution, regardless of how large it is at any given point in time. If the FE movement is growing (and I think that's currently indisputable), then we're doing something right as a community.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 01:11:44 PM by Pete Svarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Facebook and Twitter!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

Re: Resources and time
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2019, 04:19:14 PM »
Such graphs are a bit like political opinion polls and the politicians take a selective view on those. I repeat the point I made earlier about how popular the FES would remain if it was only accessible via subscription. The 'other' website as is often mentioned on here I notice invites donations but associate membership (whatever that means) is free.  The requirement to send off personal details put me off that.



*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8665
  • (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2019, 05:00:32 PM »
Such graphs are a bit like political opinion polls and the politicians take a selective view on those.
Is repeating things I said while pretending it's a novel point a personal hobby of yours?
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Facebook and Twitter!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

Re: Resources and time
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2019, 10:21:50 PM »
Quote
Is repeating things I said while pretending it's a novel point a personal hobby of yours?


Since you have already made clear that my opinions and questions are not one of your priorities Pete why should be matter to you whether I repeat things or not.  Is not answers some of the questions I have put to you previously a personal hobby of yours?

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8665
  • (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2019, 12:58:45 AM »
Since you have already made clear that my opinions and questions are not one of your priorities Pete why should be matter to you whether I repeat things or not
Because you're sitting on 2 warnings for off-topic posting in the upper fora, primarily. I'm trying to figure out if it's time for a 3rd.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Facebook and Twitter!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

Re: Resources and time
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2019, 06:51:23 AM »
Most of my posts are asking questions and then trying to get the thread back on topic after others have drifted off it so I don't know when I have qualified for those warnings. Other members are much better at going off topic than I am in my view.

Re: Resources and time
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2019, 12:15:46 PM »
We have. There's no need to create a map to establish this simple fact. Your issue appears to be that you want us to use our resources extremely inefficiently for your own satisfaction. I suggest that you manage your own resources however you please, but perhaps stay out of how others manage their own time.

Without a map you can never accurately prove a lot of given "evidence" like how sun and moon cycles work, distances between places. Unless the majority agree on the same exact map, then how can round earther's take you seriously?
Somebody explain how the sun and moon cycles were adequately explained by ancient people who held to the flat earth.

Why should we repeat what was already explained by those prior civilizations?

Why do we care if RET takes FET seriously?

You could care less if FET takes RET seriously.

Please check your pompous behavior at the door.

Nobody is engaged in proselytizing here except for you and your ilk.

Re: Resources and time
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2019, 12:22:36 PM »
Somebody explain how the sun and moon cycles were adequately explained by ancient people who held to the flat earth.
I imagine that they believed that the sun and moon went around the flat earth in the sense that the sun was above the earth during the day and below the earth at night and the moon the opposite. How they accounted for lunar phases I don't know.
This belief actually makes sense with a local perspective. The sun looks like it's coming up from below the edge of the earth in the morning and going back below the edge of the earth in the evening. We still use the words "sunrise" and "sunset" today as though it's the sun which is moving. So with a local perspective it would be reasonable to believe that when it was day it was day everywhere on earth and when it was night it was night everywhere on earth. Now we know better of course.


If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: Resources and time
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2019, 01:05:10 PM »
Somebody explain how the sun and moon cycles were adequately explained by ancient people who held to the flat earth.
I imagine that they believed that the sun and moon went around the flat earth in the sense that the sun was above the earth during the day and below the earth at night and the moon the opposite. How they accounted for lunar phases I don't know.
This belief actually makes sense with a local perspective. The sun looks like it's coming up from below the edge of the earth in the morning and going back below the edge of the earth in the evening. We still use the words "sunrise" and "sunset" today as though it's the sun which is moving. So with a local perspective it would be reasonable to believe that when it was day it was day everywhere on earth and when it was night it was night everywhere on earth. Now we know better of course.
Point is it doesn't matter what your imagination is or what your beliefs are.

Those adherents to FE in ancient times had perfectly outlined all those observable "signs in the sky," based on FE.

Re: Resources and time
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2019, 02:22:21 PM »
From what I have read about astronomers and philosphers in 'ancient times' they seemed to latch on pretty quickly to the idea that the Earth is round and if they could figure it out from empirical evidence alone then I can't see what the problem is today...  Aristarchus for example used his observations of the first quarter Moon alone to realise the Sun was bigger and further away than the Moon and that a lunar eclipse was due to the Moon crossing the Earths shadow.  He was just using his own eyes to do that. Noticing that the shadow of the Earth on the Moon was curved that suggested quite sensibly that the Earth was therefore round.

He saw that with his own eyes and so had no reason to disbelieve it or accuse someone else of deceiving him.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 02:52:47 PM by shootingstar »

*

Offline ElTrancy

  • *
  • Posts: 432
  • Cluck-Cluck!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2019, 02:45:13 PM »
We have. There's no need to create a map to establish this simple fact. Your issue appears to be that you want us to use our resources extremely inefficiently for your own satisfaction. I suggest that you manage your own resources however you please, but perhaps stay out of how others manage their own time.

Without a map you can never accurately prove a lot of given "evidence" like how sun and moon cycles work, distances between places. Unless the majority agree on the same exact map, then how can round earther's take you seriously?
Somebody explain how the sun and moon cycles were adequately explained by ancient people who held to the flat earth.

Why should we repeat what was already explained by those prior civilizations?

Why do we care if RET takes FET seriously?

You could care less if FET takes RET seriously.

Please check your pompous behavior at the door.

Nobody is engaged in proselytizing here except for you and your ilk.

AllAroundTheWorld answered your first question. To your second, I'd like to quote George Santayana "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Prior civilizations are also the ones who discovered the Earth was round. Why can't we repeat what they already explained? Correcting older civilizations on their falsities. You should care because if you ever want to be known in the scientific world, and not be shunned by most scientists, then you're going to need a map to explain your claims.

"Nobody is engaged in proselytizing here except for you and your ilk." With this sentence I has officially heard the stupidest thing ever. This entire website is here to change peoples beliefs by showing the "evidence" of a flat earth. Is that not proselytizing?
Alive and ready to Battle.

*

Offline ElTrancy

  • *
  • Posts: 432
  • Cluck-Cluck!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2019, 02:50:52 PM »
We have. There's no need to create a map to establish this simple fact. Your issue appears to be that you want us to use our resources extremely inefficiently for your own satisfaction. I suggest that you manage your own resources however you please, but perhaps stay out of how others manage their own time.

Honestly I don't want you to use your resources extremely inefficiently. As according to Tom, you don't have those. I'd like to point out things that cannot be proved without a map:
Plate tectonics (And everything including them: Volcanoes, Earthquakes, ect ect)
Sun & moon cycles.
Seasons
The Ice wall
Distances between places (That actually make sense on a flat map)

So basically your entire movement depends on a map that nobody can seem to make  ;D
Alive and ready to Battle.

Re: Resources and time
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2019, 04:41:46 PM »
From what I have read about astronomers and philosphers in 'ancient times' they seemed to latch on pretty quickly to the idea that the Earth is round and if they could figure it out from empirical evidence alone then I can't see what the problem is today...  Aristarchus for example used his observations of the first quarter Moon alone to realise the Sun was bigger and further away than the Moon and that a lunar eclipse was due to the Moon crossing the Earths shadow.  He was just using his own eyes to do that. Noticing that the shadow of the Earth on the Moon was curved that suggested quite sensibly that the Earth was therefore round.

He saw that with his own eyes and so had no reason to disbelieve it or accuse someone else of deceiving him.
Funny how the new fangled RE approach, even in those times, did not result in any changes in the predicted timing of events as witnessed in the heavens above...
We have. There's no need to create a map to establish this simple fact. Your issue appears to be that you want us to use our resources extremely inefficiently for your own satisfaction. I suggest that you manage your own resources however you please, but perhaps stay out of how others manage their own time.

Without a map you can never accurately prove a lot of given "evidence" like how sun and moon cycles work, distances between places. Unless the majority agree on the same exact map, then how can round earther's take you seriously?
Somebody explain how the sun and moon cycles were adequately explained by ancient people who held to the flat earth.

Why should we repeat what was already explained by those prior civilizations?

Why do we care if RET takes FET seriously?

You could care less if FET takes RET seriously.

Please check your pompous behavior at the door.

Nobody is engaged in proselytizing here except for you and your ilk.

AllAroundTheWorld answered your first question.
Where?
To your second, I'd like to quote George Santayana "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Prior civilizations are also the ones who discovered the Earth was round. Why can't we repeat what they already explained?
You can.
Correcting older civilizations on their falsities.
Horse hockey.
You should care because if you ever want to be known in the scientific world, and not be shunned by most scientists, then you're going to need a map to explain your claims.
Do you regularly appeal to numbers when engaged in discussion?

Mass acceptance is important to you?
"Nobody is engaged in proselytizing here except for you and your ilk." With this sentence I has officially heard the stupidest thing ever. This entire website is here to change peoples beliefs by showing the "evidence" of a flat earth. Is that not proselytizing?
I am not out to change anyone's belief system.

And I challenge you to find anything in writing on this site stating the objective is to change belief sets held by anyone.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 05:05:54 PM by totallackey »

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8665
  • (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Resources and time
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2019, 06:28:20 PM »
So basically your entire movement depends on a map that nobody can seem to make  ;D
I already acknowledged and addressed your opinion. What we do is working very well, as evidenced by the movement's growth. The fact that dogmatic opponents of Zetetic inquiry will not be convinced by it is a non-issue. We have better things to focus on.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Facebook and Twitter!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

Re: Resources and time
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2019, 08:36:33 PM »
So basically your entire movement depends on a map that nobody can seem to make  ;D
I already acknowledged and addressed your opinion. What we do is working very well, as evidenced by the movement's growth. The fact that dogmatic opponents of Zetetic inquiry will not be convinced by it is a non-issue. We have better things to focus on.
What are you focusing on?  Surely confirming the shape and size of this object we sit on is a bit important.