Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2019, 12:47:01 PM »
Well I know its not on the original topic but since you asked the question.  Lunar eclipses are caused by the Earth so I guess that would have some relevance to what shape the Earth is.

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2019, 01:09:57 PM »
Well I know its not on the original topic but since you asked the question.  Lunar eclipses are caused by the Earth so I guess that would have some relevance to what shape the Earth is.
True, not on topic, and debatable statement anyway...

Offline ChrisTP

  • *
  • Posts: 67
    • View Profile
Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2019, 01:41:58 PM »
Well I know its not on the original topic but since you asked the question.  Lunar eclipses are caused by the Earth so I guess that would have some relevance to what shape the Earth is.
True, not on topic, and debatable statement anyway...
It would be a debatable statement but you seem to refuse to debate it with counter arguments backed up with proof and evidence and instead resort to vitriolic behaviour with name calling and insults... This is why I'm interested in hearing from other flat earthers. Pete's statement is a stepping stone in the discussion at least. I'd like to go from there.

Quote
It's not "fake". It's untrustworthy. Contrary to claims, very little actual examinable footage has been released, and most news stories contain primarily shitty computer animations reminiscent of old cartoons. Recall your own hand-waving around the subject of evidence.

It's an unverifiable claim and it's being treated as one.
With regards to the bad graphic CGI they show, I feel this wasn't to fool anyone but to present to the audience what happened. Would you agree that no one claims that the CGI in the news article videos is real? Only the photos that were stated to be from the rover/satellite/craft etc. It would be hard to show with real footage since there are no camera crews in space and the only cameras would be on the craft it's self.

What would you say to the scientists and engineers that made the tech and were actively working together to launch the rover and land it? If you were to meet them in person or go to their place of work. Would you still claim unverifiable if the tech and calculations behind it were revealed to you and you had time to try to understand it? I'm assuming you aren't new to coding of any kind and you may be able to make some sense of some of the maths.

« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 01:46:29 PM by ChrisTP »

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2019, 02:01:35 PM »
Quote
True, not on topic, and debatable statement anyway...


Hardly.... it's a well known fact.  Earth casts shadow into space (all solid objects cast a shadow as you will know), Moon passes into shadow of Earth at full Moon (when Earth lies directly between Sun and Moon) and therefore we see Moon eclipsed. There are many, many websites that will show this information and confirm it.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 02:24:30 PM by shootingstar »

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2019, 04:46:57 PM »
No, its not a straw man argument.  Totallackey keeps pointing to the fact that MSM lies and whoever else and that nothing can be trusted, and its highly possible its all fake. The same damn argument can be made for any historical textbooks, because falsehoods have regularly been found in them, as well. Therefore, you can literally have a skeptical outlook on anything that you have not personally witnessed. Stop throwing around logical fallacy as a defense when its incorrect. Does anyone need to quote the Princess Bride here?

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2019, 04:49:28 PM »
I can literally say to you, Do you have evidence that George Washington existed? And I can reply that it is fake or a lie, because its just a history book or a historical document.  Did you go dig up his bones? No, they won't let you. Why? It must be a conspiracy to keep the truth of George Washington not actually existing from you. Sound a bit like the ice wall and government conspiracy to keep you from it???

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2019, 04:55:38 PM »
Quote
True, not on topic, and debatable statement anyway...


Hardly.... it's a well known fact.  Earth casts shadow into space (all solid objects cast a shadow as you will know), Moon passes into shadow of Earth at full Moon (when Earth lies directly between Sun and Moon) and therefore we see Moon eclipsed. There are many, many websites that will show this information and confirm it.
I am well aware of what science claims regarding lunar eclipses.

Claiming something to be a certain way does not = fact.

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2019, 04:57:59 PM »
No, its not a straw man argument.  Totallackey keeps pointing to the fact that MSM lies and whoever else and that nothing can be trusted, and its highly possible its all fake. The same damn argument can be made for any historical textbooks, because falsehoods have regularly been found in them, as well. Therefore, you can literally have a skeptical outlook on anything that you have not personally witnessed. Stop throwing around logical fallacy as a defense when its incorrect. Does anyone need to quote the Princess Bride here?
It is a strawman argument due to the fact we are not discussing historical or current events having taken place on Earth in this thread.

Equating the two is fallacious.

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2019, 05:02:30 PM »
I can literally say to you, Do you have evidence that George Washington existed? And I can reply that it is fake or a lie, because its just a history book or a historical document.  Did you go dig up his bones? No, they won't let you. Why? It must be a conspiracy to keep the truth of George Washington not actually existing from you. Sound a bit like the ice wall and government conspiracy to keep you from it???
No, I cannot literally write or say George Washington existed or not.

I can write or say I believe George Washington existed.

Are you writing you do not believe George Washington existed based on the evidence?

History books/historical documents =/= MSM or journalism. MSM or journalism could be part of a subset of the former.

But the latter runs with the "cherry tree," angle.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 11:51:21 AM by totallackey »

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2019, 05:04:22 PM »
What this thread was getting at was, what I'm interested in (although I do concede the OP was a clumsy way of asking), is the FE response to the space industry generally. In 2018 alone there were 114 launches, 111 of them successful. And while NASA may be the poster boys for all this there were 6 agencies involved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_in_spaceflight#By_country

And look at how many countries were involved overall:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_in_spaceflight#Orbital_launches

This is all so routine it rarely gets reported. This one did though. On 23rd December Elon Musk finally launched a military satellite into space:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/dec/23/elon-musk-spacex-launches-military-rocket

This was noteworthy because it was a private company who won a contract to launch satellites for the military. What do FE people think is going on here?
Is Musk lying? Why haven't the military called him out on it if so? Surely if he claimed they were launching satellites for them and they just weren't then someone would say something. Are the military "in on it"? Are they lying? Why? Or is he fooling them some way, so they think he's launching satellites but he really isn't? You think they'd notice if the $500m satellite he'd launched wasn't working but maybe he's managed to fool them into thinking that it is.

It's all well and good to say that none of this is directly verifiable - and I guess that is actually true - but on balance of probabilities, given the rocket technology clearly exists, is it really likely that all of this is fake? I mean, GPS works, my satellite TV works, the ISS can be seen from earth.

Every launch is another opportunity for FE to examine its beliefs but I don't see much of that going on other than a vague "we can't verify this directly so we're not going to think about it too hard".
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

*

Online Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8666
  • (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2019, 06:40:36 PM »
Every launch is another opportunity for FE to examine its beliefs but I don't see much of that going on other than a vague "we can't verify this directly so we're not going to think about it too hard".
What is the benefit of sitting around on one's arse and pondering unverifiable claims? You RET lot usually have a lot to say about just how useful unfalsifiable hypotheses are, except when you push them yourselves. Suddenly they're good, because they're convenient.

To quote Tim Minchin:

Life is full of mysteries, yeah
But there are answers out there
And they won't be found by people sitting around looking serious and saying 'Isn't life mysterious?'
'Let's sit here and hope.
'Let's call up the fucking Pope.
'Let's go watch Oprah interview Deepak Chopra.'
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Facebook and Twitter!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2019, 07:45:38 PM »
What is the benefit of sitting around on one's arse and pondering unverifiable claims?
Because, if you're going to be strict about it, pretty much every claim is unverifiable.
So you either believe nothing at all or your form your world view based on evidence and balance of probabilities.
There's a reason why a court of law only demands a person be proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt, because absolute proof is impossible.

The earth being a globe is unverifiable in the strictest sense.
The earth being flat is unverifiable.
You believe one of those so you have clearly come to that conclusion based on some evidence, it isn't based on you having been up in a space ship and seen the flat earth.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

*

Online Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8666
  • (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2019, 08:19:50 PM »
Sure, we can go with balance. But it will still be a balance of things I can verify, not things the nice man on TV told me to believe.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Facebook and Twitter!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2019, 09:00:11 PM »
Sure, we can go with balance. But it will still be a balance of things I can verify, not things the nice man on TV told me to believe.
I literally have no idea how you make your mind up about anything then, because very little is personally verifiable if you’re going to go down that route. The principle you’re talking about isn’t bad per se, it’s just not possible or practical for most things.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2019, 09:37:32 PM »
Let me just ask you Pete quite candidly.  As I understand it flat Earth theory starts on the basis of the view of the world that we see directly yes? No aids to the basic human senses whatsoever. The world is flat because it looks flat from where ever we are standing.  Seeing is believing.

A simple yes or no answer to this question would be fine.

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 1088
    • View Profile
Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2019, 09:35:01 PM »
Sure, we can go with balance. But it will still be a balance of things I can verify, not things the nice man on TV told me to believe.

I have no idea how you can function in the world on that basis. You have to take hundreds of things at face value, without verification, every day....

If I look at the weather forecast, ON THE TV, on Sunday night, and it says there'll be heavy snow on Monday morning, I look out my snow boots and make sure the car anti-freeze is topped up. What do you do? Build your own weather-monitoring system so that you can check for yourself?

If the geiger counter reads off the scale as I approach (say) Chernobyl, I stop and move away. What do you do? Build a geiger counter from scratch?

If the microwave instructions say don't put body parts into the oven whilst it's operating, do you take that at face value, or do you stick a finger in to verify it?

Science tells you most all of the above. If you believe science on the above, but you cherry-pick to disbelieve it on shape of the planet, space exploration and such .... 
==============================
==============================
Pete Svarrior "We are not here to directly persuade anyone ... You mistake our lack of interest in you for our absence."

Tom Bishop "We are extremely popular and the entire world wants to talk to us. We have better things to do with our lives than have in depth discussions with every single curious person. You are lucky to get one sentence dismissals from us"

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5788
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2019, 01:24:29 AM »
Sure, we can go with balance. But it will still be a balance of things I can verify, not things the nice man on TV told me to believe.

I have no idea how you can function in the world on that basis. You have to take hundreds of things at face value, without verification, every day....

If I look at the weather forecast, ON THE TV, on Sunday night, and it says there'll be heavy snow on Monday morning, I look out my snow boots and make sure the car anti-freeze is topped up. What do you do? Build your own weather-monitoring system so that you can check for yourself?

If the geiger counter reads off the scale as I approach (say) Chernobyl, I stop and move away. What do you do? Build a geiger counter from scratch?

If the microwave instructions say don't put body parts into the oven whilst it's operating, do you take that at face value, or do you stick a finger in to verify it?

Science tells you most all of the above. If you believe science on the above, but you cherry-pick to disbelieve it on shape of the planet, space exploration and such ....

This forum isn't about questioning any of those topics. Pete is asking you for items that can be verified in regards to the subject of the website. It is apparent that you are at a lack of answers and are just asking people to blindly believe.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 01:26:48 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline J-Man

  • *
  • Posts: 519
    • View Profile
Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2019, 02:20:28 AM »
Maybe we should use some common sense. To place a man or mechanical craft on the back side of something never seen would take a lot of expertise. Is there a van allen belt? Is there a dome? Has china and the usa faked space walks or travel? Yes, bubble boys, an actual lunar reel discover faking a pic of the earth from the capsule. How many people have died in these space missions? Lets not count the launch pad or couple mile up booms. NONE... How can no one ever die in these en devours? Just monkeys rats and a dog.

Why is it we still can't figure out the pyramids, stones of Cuzco, underground cities like Derinkuyu yet we can place men and machines on the moon, mars and other celestial objects? Makes no sense, carries no logical thought process, it's all BS, fakery. Please don't ask me to believe the earth is a globe until these BS scientist can explain how a 1,650 ton stone block is carved with precision and expected to be moved 100's of miles let alone any of the for mentioned items.

The world is full of idiots, charlatans and scientists.

The earth is flat as a pancake and the creator said so. That's all I need. Now figure out the precision cuts inside the pyramid rooms and lack of any soot on the walls from light.
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2019, 02:25:35 AM »
Those arguments are irrelevant. You are probably typing that on a smartphone that has the processing capabilities that far outstrip the first computers ever developed. Mankind has made some amazing inventions. And yet, its inconceivable that space travel to the moon is impossible? Star Trek predicted cell phones 30 years before they were invented. Take a look at the genius of Nikola Tesla. For ed very argument you make that humans are stupid and cant figure anything out, I can give you counterpoint of amazing things that they have done. So, in the end, irrelevant. (Its very similar to the abortion argument of "killing a possible hitler" vs "killing the possible savior of mankind". Shhhhhhh

*

Offline J-Man

  • *
  • Posts: 519
    • View Profile
Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2019, 02:34:35 AM »
Those arguments are irrelevant. You are probably typing that on a smartphone that has the processing capabilities that far outstrip the first computers ever developed. Mankind has made some amazing inventions. And yet, its inconceivable that space travel to the moon is impossible? Star Trek predicted cell phones 30 years before they were invented. Take a look at the genius of Nikola Tesla. For ed very argument you make that humans are stupid and cant figure anything out, I can give you counterpoint of amazing things that they have done. So, in the end, irrelevant. (Its very similar to the abortion argument of "killing a possible hitler" vs "killing the possible savior of mankind". Shhhhhhh

How many people died trying to go 300 mph in a quarter mile? Then how many trying to go 320 mph. It is relevant. No one dies because its all fakery.
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.