The Dark Side of the Moon
« on: January 03, 2019, 11:21:02 AM »
China have landed a craft on the "dark" side of the moon

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46724727

I guess the FE response is to call this fake, do the society have any evidence of fakery?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2019, 11:31:22 AM »
It's worth mentioning that CNSA and NASA by law can't work together and so they have very little affiliation or reason to protect any US government secrets (secrets like moon landings being fake and earth being flat). There is a lot less reason for the CNSA to fake this in theory.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williampentland/2011/05/07/congress-bans-scientific-collaboration-with-china-cites-high-espionage-risks/#18bd5b945629

shootingstar

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2019, 12:59:37 PM »
Quote
China have landed a craft on the "dark" side of the moon

Just for the record the craft had landed on the far side of the Moon which never faces Earth.  The Moons rotation means that all areas of the Moons surface are 'bright' or 'dark' for an equal period of time each phase cycle.

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2019, 04:17:03 PM »
Quote
China have landed a craft on the "dark" side of the moon

Just for the record the craft had landed on the far side of the Moon which never faces Earth.  The Moons rotation means that all areas of the Moons surface are 'bright' or 'dark' for an equal period of time each phase cycle.

Wouldn't the near side of the moon be on average brighter than the far side? After all, it would get both sunlight and earthshine while the farside gets only sunlight.

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2019, 04:45:46 PM »
China have landed a craft on the "dark" side of the moon

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46724727

I guess the FE response is to call this fake, do the society have any evidence of fakery?
Do you have any evidence of reality?

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2019, 04:54:47 PM »
China have landed a craft on the "dark" side of the moon

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46724727

I guess the FE response is to call this fake, do the society have any evidence of fakery?
Do you have any evidence of reality?
Yes, there's a factual article in his post with currently no evidence to the contrary until you or another FE'er provide it though. I think that's what he was asking for in the first place, evidence to debunk china landing on the moon. Since the article is presumed factual until you or someone provides evidence otherwise, it is 'in fact' a reality.

Not entirely sure what point you're trying to make so you've brought nothing to this discussion so far. How was your comment not considered "shit posting"? Please stay on topic as I'm also curious about the chance of this being faked.

shootingstar

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2019, 06:25:17 PM »
Regarding Spacecadets comments I am not going to get into the pedantics about Earthshine. Each month at new Moon the far side of the Moon is in full Sunlight while the nearside is in darkness. At full Moon it is the reverse. So 'on average' the near side and the far side of the Moon receive the same amount of direct sunlight and darkness.

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2019, 12:21:48 PM »
China have landed a craft on the "dark" side of the moon

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46724727

I guess the FE response is to call this fake, do the society have any evidence of fakery?
Do you have any evidence of reality?
Yes, there's a factual article in his post with currently no evidence to the contrary until you or another FE'er provide it though. I think that's what he was asking for in the first place, evidence to debunk china landing on the moon. Since the article is presumed factual until you or someone provides evidence otherwise, it is 'in fact' a reality.

Not entirely sure what point you're trying to make so you've brought nothing to this discussion so far. How was your comment not considered "shit posting"? Please stay on topic as I'm also curious about the chance of this being faked.
Let us examine your reply in terms of reality.

First, it is indeed a "factual article."

Please note it is not an article containing facts.

Nobody cares what you think.

You are correct in writing the article is "presumed," to contain facts. Presumption is tantamount to nothing so it is not reality, it remains belief.

My post was not considered "shitposting," as the OP can only do as much as the rest of us. Make assumptions based on belief.

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2019, 12:28:56 PM »
Do you have any evidence of fakery?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2019, 01:56:23 PM »
China have landed a craft on the "dark" side of the moon

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46724727

I guess the FE response is to call this fake, do the society have any evidence of fakery?
Do you have any evidence of reality?
Yes, there's a factual article in his post with currently no evidence to the contrary until you or another FE'er provide it though. I think that's what he was asking for in the first place, evidence to debunk china landing on the moon. Since the article is presumed factual until you or someone provides evidence otherwise, it is 'in fact' a reality.

Not entirely sure what point you're trying to make so you've brought nothing to this discussion so far. How was your comment not considered "shit posting"? Please stay on topic as I'm also curious about the chance of this being faked.
Let us examine your reply in terms of reality.

First, it is indeed a "factual article."

Please note it is not an article containing facts.

Nobody cares what you think.

You are correct in writing the article is "presumed," to contain facts. Presumption is tantamount to nothing so it is not reality, it remains belief.

My post was not considered "shitposting," as the OP can only do as much as the rest of us. Make assumptions based on belief.
Once again you've added nothing to the discussion though. The article is presented as a fact, they are saying they have landed their equipment on the moon, showing photo evidence and information regarding their plans to explore and examine the moon. As they have their evidence and are quite obviously claiming this as real, thus the claim that it is in fact a reality that they've landed on the moon.

The OP has presented this article and asked if you or anyone have evidence to the contrary (substantial evidence of being fake) and so far you''ve not said anything useful, you have yet to answer to the OP's question. No one cares if you think it's fake until present your reasoning and evidence. Until then it's still a fact and thus real.

If you aren't going to be useful to the topic stop replying to this topic. If this still isn't clear to you let me lay it out;

OP: "Here's evidence that China landed on the moon. please present evidence to the contrary, proving it's fake"

Now FES's turn to present evidence that China did not land on the moon.

you:nah mate, not real 'cause what even is real?" Here is some evidence that it is faked and china did not land on the moon."

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2019, 02:07:37 PM »
Do you have any evidence of fakery?
Surely you're beyond such an obvious reversal of burden of proof? You and your Chinese friends are the claimants here.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Offline markjo

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Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2019, 02:26:57 PM »
Do you have any evidence of fakery?
Surely you're beyond such an obvious reversal of burden of proof? You and your Chinese friends are the claimants here.
What evidence do you suppose would be required to meet that burden of proof?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2019, 04:20:33 PM »
Do you have any evidence of fakery?
And I repeat my query. Do you have any evidence of reality?
China have landed a craft on the "dark" side of the moon

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46724727

I guess the FE response is to call this fake, do the society have any evidence of fakery?
Do you have any evidence of reality?
Yes, there's a factual article in his post with currently no evidence to the contrary until you or another FE'er provide it though. I think that's what he was asking for in the first place, evidence to debunk china landing on the moon. Since the article is presumed factual until you or someone provides evidence otherwise, it is 'in fact' a reality.

Not entirely sure what point you're trying to make so you've brought nothing to this discussion so far. How was your comment not considered "shit posting"? Please stay on topic as I'm also curious about the chance of this being faked.
Let us examine your reply in terms of reality.

First, it is indeed a "factual article."

Please note it is not an article containing facts.

Nobody cares what you think.

You are correct in writing the article is "presumed," to contain facts. Presumption is tantamount to nothing so it is not reality, it remains belief.

My post was not considered "shitposting," as the OP can only do as much as the rest of us. Make assumptions based on belief.
Once again you've added nothing to the discussion though.
I disagree.
The article is presented as a fact, they are saying they have landed their equipment on the moon, showing photo evidence and information regarding their plans to explore and examine the moon. As they have their evidence and are quite obviously claiming this as real, thus the claim that it is in fact a reality that they've landed on the moon.
It is presented as a factual article.

The Bible is presented as fact and there have been many finds (with supporting photographic evidence of those finds) in the field of archaeology supporting much of the writing in the Bible. But the Bible is the Bible, just as space agencies are space agencies.

The OP has presented this article and asked if you or anyone have evidence to the contrary (substantial evidence of being fake) and so far you''ve not said anything useful, you have yet to answer to the OP's question. No one cares if you think it's fake until present your reasoning and evidence. Until then it's still a fact and thus real.
It is here you fully demonstrate the depths of your disingenuous nature and predilection for intellectual and philosophical dishonesty.

It is not incumbent upon me to provide any evidence here. The OP has yet to provide any evidence the article contains any facts or that any of the events contained in the article are true.

The Chinese, as are all humans, notorious liars. That is an unequivocal fact.
If you aren't going to be useful to the topic stop replying to this topic.
I don't take orders from you, Copernicus.
If this still isn't clear to you let me lay it out;

OP: "Here's evidence that China landed on the moon. please present evidence to the contrary, proving it's fake"

Now FES's turn to present evidence that China did not land on the moon.

you:nah mate, not real 'cause what even is real?" Here is some evidence that it is faked and china did not land on the moon."
Maybe this will be clearer for you.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=11752.msg178214#msg178214
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 04:33:15 PM by totallackey »

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2019, 04:26:08 PM »
Do you have any evidence of fakery?
Surely you're beyond such an obvious reversal of burden of proof? You and your Chinese friends are the claimants here.
I’m not asking for proof. Proof is not possible on either side. Absolute proof is only possible in the limited language of mathematics.

I’m just asking what the FE take on this claim from the Chinese is. I am anticipating that your stance will be that it’s faked. If that isn’t your stance then what is it? If your stance is that it is fake then do you have any evidence for that? It’s not a difficult question.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2019, 04:37:14 PM »
Do you have any evidence of fakery?
Surely you're beyond such an obvious reversal of burden of proof? You and your Chinese friends are the claimants here.
I’m not asking for proof. Proof is not possible on either side. Absolute proof is only possible in the limited language of mathematics.

I’m just asking what the FE take on this claim from the Chinese is. I am anticipating that your stance will be that it’s faked. If that isn’t your stance then what is it? If your stance is that it is fake then do you have any evidence for that? It’s not a difficult question.
So your not asking for proof of anything?

Okay.

Do you have any evidence the events the article depicts have actually taken place?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2019, 04:56:29 PM »
I’m not asking for proof.
The phrase burden of proof is fairly well-understood, and bickering about the semantics of the word "proof" won't change that. Sort of like how the United States of America having some territories outside of the Americas doesn't make it any less the USA.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2019, 05:03:34 PM »
But still, what would constitute real 'proof'?

Unless you are standing on the far side of the moon in a space suit looking at the landed equipment, how can it be proven?

If one takes all the telemetry and data to be fake how do we prove this?

Round Earther patiently looking for a better deal...

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2019, 05:13:49 PM »
So your not asking for proof of anything?
*You’re
Proof is not possible on either side.
I can’t prove the Chinese have landed a craft on the moon. You can’t prove they haven’t.

So let’s look at the evidence.

Quote
Do you have any evidence the events the article depicts have actually taken place?
Firstly, you could ask that about any news article. Unless you personally witness the events what evidence do you have that they happened?

The evidence here is that every major news source has reported this as something that really happened. I’ve not heard anyone casting any doubt on the claim from the Chinese. Photos have been provided from the craft, I’ve not heard any claims that those are faked.

The technology to get craft in orbit around the moon has existed since the space race, the Russians (crash) landed Luna 2 on the moon in 1959. There have been multiple manned and unmanned missions since from multiple countries since.

So I have no reason to suspect this has been faked. Do you have any reason to and, if so, do you have any evidence of specific fakery in this instance?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2019, 05:19:05 PM »
I’m not asking for proof.
The phrase burden of proof is fairly well-understood, and bickering about the semantics of the word "proof" won't change that. Sort of like how the United States of America having some territories outside of the Americas doesn't make it any less the USA.
You do say quite a lot without really saying anything. This has been widely reported as something which happened. China have produced photos from the surface. My questions are

What is the FE response to this story?

If the response is that this has all been fabricated then do you have any evidence for that? (Obviously this second question is not relevant if your answer to the first question is different to the one I have suggested it might be)
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

shootingstar

Re: The Dark Side of the Moon
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2019, 09:58:29 AM »
Quote
Unless you are standing on the far side of the moon in a space suit looking at the landed equipment, how can it be proven?


I have never physically seen with my own eyes a polar bear, or visited the Grand Canyon or the Great Barrier Reef but i don't need anybody to 'prove' to me that they exist.  Same principle isn't it.