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Offline Bad Puppy

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2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« on: January 01, 2019, 01:45:48 AM »
NASA and other RE proponents are expecting a red total lunar eclipse on January 20, beginning at 11:41ET and lasting for just over an hour.  This is some precise prediction.  From the FE perspective, do you believe it's possible to make such a prediction with this accuracy when the cause of such an event is a mysterious black sun?  If it's not the black sun or other mysterious object, please correct me.

According to https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/lunar/2019-january-21, at the moment of the peak of the eclipse, the entire blood moon will be visible at the same moment from all of North America, South America, some western countries in Africa, Ireland, Norway, and parts of Russia.

How is this possible on a flat earth for all of these places to observe this event at the same time in its entirety?
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2019, 03:58:58 AM »
RE is using ancient pattern-based methods to predict the eclipse, not a round earth or solar system model. Go over to NASA's eclipse website and count how many times the Saros Cycle is mentioned, and then count how many times the Three Body Problem is mentioned.

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Offline Bad Puppy

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2019, 05:28:40 AM »
RE is using ancient pattern-based methods to predict the eclipse, not a round earth or solar system model. Go over to NASA's eclipse website and count how many times the Saros Cycle is mentioned, and then count how many times the Three Body Problem is mentioned.

Your reply has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you think it's possible to make this prediction on a flat earth.
It also has nothing to do with how a total lunar eclipse would be visible at the same time from all the locations mentioned in my original post.
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...circles do not exist and pi is not 3.14159...

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Do you have any evidence of reality?

shootingstar

Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2019, 10:27:55 AM »
With respect to Toms beliefs and reliance on ancient patterns etc etc, modern astronomical predictions including those of eclipses are made based on (in no small part) Keplers laws of planetary motion and calculations using gravity.  I know his way of looking at these sorts of events means he can't accept such an approach so I shall leave him to make his own interpretations on that.

For the rest of us the eclipse will occur at the moment when the Moon enters the Earths shadow. This occurs when the elongation of the Moon w.r.t the Sun is near 180 degrees. Exact timings of the eclipse for the parts of the world that can see the eclipse will vary locally due to the Earths rotation.

I see the Jan 2019 total lunar eclipse will be visible across the Americas and W Europe.  That is good because it means I will see it. Total eclipse means that the Moon passes through the umbral or central, darkest region of the Earths shadow. The changes in the Moons appearance are very subtle in real time so detecting the start of the eclipse is not easy!
« Last Edit: January 01, 2019, 10:33:40 AM by shootingstar »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2019, 12:52:53 AM »
RE is using ancient pattern-based methods to predict the eclipse, not a round earth or solar system model. Go over to NASA's eclipse website and count how many times the Saros Cycle is mentioned, and then count how many times the Three Body Problem is mentioned.

This is unquestionably incorrect and total denial from you to say so. A member of the NASA eclipse prediction team has directly refuted these tired canards. Please, all readers, ignore it.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2019, 01:15:47 AM »
RE is using ancient pattern-based methods to predict the eclipse, not a round earth or solar system model. Go over to NASA's eclipse website and count how many times the Saros Cycle is mentioned, and then count how many times the Three Body Problem is mentioned.

This is unquestionably incorrect and total denial from you to say so. A member of the NASA eclipse prediction team has directly refuted these tired canards. Please, all readers, ignore it.

He didn't didn't deny using the Saros Cycle.

Did you perform the count as I suggested?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2019, 01:35:09 AM »
I'll help you.

Google search term: "saros" site:https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/

13,700 results.

Google search term: "three body" site:https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/

One result--

"The distance of apogee does not vary by much month to month although the value of perigee can change quite a bit. Minimum vs. maximum apogee is a 0.6% spread and minimum vs. maximum perigee is a 3.9% spread. If Newton couldn't solve the three-body problem I certainly can't"
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 04:22:01 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Bad Puppy

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2019, 01:38:00 AM »
RE is using ancient pattern-based methods to predict the eclipse, not a round earth or solar system model. Go over to NASA's eclipse website and count how many times the Saros Cycle is mentioned, and then count how many times the Three Body Problem is mentioned.

This is unquestionably incorrect and total denial from you to say so. A member of the NASA eclipse prediction team has directly refuted these tired canards. Please, all readers, ignore it.

He didn't didn't deny using the Saros Cycle.

Did you perform the count as I suggested?

It's not relevant, so if you don't know you can just say so.  You obviously didn't read my OP.  Read it carefully and you'll see "from the FE perspective".  Don't go tossing the Saros Cycle in there as if it has any relevance to a flat earth, because it doesn't....unless you're willing to admit the the Earth comes between the sun and the moon....and that the Earth isn't flat.

I'd love to see your explanation of the last question on my OP.  Indulge me.
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...circles do not exist and pi is not 3.14159...

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Do you have any evidence of reality?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2019, 01:40:19 AM »
Don't go tossing the Saros Cycle in there as if it has any relevance to a flat earth, because it doesn't....unless you're willing to admit the the Earth comes between the sun and the moon....and that the Earth isn't flat.

I would suggest looking at what the Saros Cycle is.

From NASA's eclipse website: "The periodicity and recurrence of eclipses is governed by the Saros cycle, a period of approximately 6,585.3 days (18 years 11 days 8 hours). It was known to the Chaldeans as a period when lunar eclipses seem to repeat themselves, but the cycle is applicable to solar eclipses as well."
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 01:53:15 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Bad Puppy

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2019, 01:56:07 AM »
Don't go tossing the Saros Cycle in there as if it has any relevance to a flat earth, because it doesn't....unless you're willing to admit the the Earth comes between the sun and the moon....and that the Earth isn't flat.

I would suggest looking at what the Saros Cycle is.

Yup.  Still doesn't change anything.  So, you can't explain why the blood moon will be visible in its entirety at the same time from all of North America, South America, some western countries in Africa, Ireland, Norway, and parts of Russia. 

Here's a really rough coverage of where the blood moon will be full (bad photoshop skills).  Where will the sun and the moon be at that time?
 
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...circles do not exist and pi is not 3.14159...

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Do you have any evidence of reality?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2019, 02:06:08 AM »
The lunar eclipse is a shadow on the moon and will be visible to anyone who can see the moon.

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Offline markjo

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2019, 02:28:33 AM »
Don't go tossing the Saros Cycle in there as if it has any relevance to a flat earth, because it doesn't....unless you're willing to admit the the Earth comes between the sun and the moon....and that the Earth isn't flat.

I would suggest looking at what the Saros Cycle is.

From NASA's eclipse website: "The periodicity and recurrence of eclipses is governed by the Saros cycle, a period of approximately 6,585.3 days (18 years 11 days 8 hours). It was known to the Chaldeans as a period when lunar eclipses seem to repeat themselves, but the cycle is applicable to solar eclipses as well."
Tom, would you care to explain how Saros can predict the precise geometry of an eclipse?
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2019, 02:34:11 AM »
You can use a moon calculator to figure out who can see the moon at the time in question, or you can figure it out for yourself that China can see the moon when you can't.

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Offline Bad Puppy

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2019, 03:20:43 AM »
The lunar eclipse is a shadow on the moon and will be visible to anyone who can see the moon.

What's the source of the shadow?
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Do you have any evidence of reality?

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Offline markjo

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2019, 03:37:58 AM »
You can use a moon calculator to figure out who can see the moon at the time in question, or you can figure it out for yourself that China can see the moon when you can't.
Isn't Saros supposed to be able to tell you who can see the eclipse and when?  How about the timing and visibility of the different stages of the eclipse?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2019, 04:10:40 AM »
Quote from: Markjo
Isn't Saros supposed to be able to tell you who can see the eclipse and when?  How about the timing and visibility of the different stages of the eclipse?

Saros just tells you when the eclipse will occur. You will need another method if you want to know if the moon is visible to you at that time. The Lunar Eclipse is visible to anyone who can see the moon.

The different attributes of the eclipse can be broken out with further pattern analysis. Look at the end of the Eclipse chapter of Earth Not a Globe for pattern-based equations for the time, magnitude, and duration of the lunar eclipse.

What's the source of the shadow?

Probably a satellite of the sun that is in the daylight area.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 04:16:04 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Bad Puppy

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2019, 04:38:20 AM »
Quote from: Markjo
Isn't Saros supposed to be able to tell you who can see the eclipse and when?  How about the timing and visibility of the different stages of the eclipse?

Saros just tells you when the eclipse will occur. You will need another method if you want to know if the moon is visible to you at that time. The Lunar Eclipse is visible to anyone who can see the moon.

The different attributes of the eclipse can be broken out with further pattern analysis. Look at the end of the Eclipse chapter of Earth Not a Globe for pattern-based equations for the time, magnitude, and duration of the lunar eclipse.

What's the source of the shadow?

Probably a satellite of the sun that is in the daylight area.

This is very interesting, Tom.  And this "probably a satellite" would do what exactly to cause this shadow to completely obscure the moon to ALL of the observers in two continents?  What would you expect its size to be? Or its orbit around the sun?
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Offline markjo

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2019, 04:59:33 AM »
Quote from: Markjo
Isn't Saros supposed to be able to tell you who can see the eclipse and when?  How about the timing and visibility of the different stages of the eclipse?

Saros just tells you when the eclipse will occur. You will need another method if you want to know if the moon is visible to you at that time. The Lunar Eclipse is visible to anyone who can see the moon.
Ah, so Saros is not the be-all-end-all of eclipse prediction?  Good to know.

The different attributes of the eclipse can be broken out with further pattern analysis. Look at the end of the Eclipse chapter of Earth Not a Globe for pattern-based equations for the time, magnitude, and duration of the lunar eclipse.

Do you mean the round earth equations that Rowbotham presented?
"TO FIND THE TIME, MAGNITUDE, AND DURATION OF A LUNAR ECLIPSE.

"Let A, B, R, (in the following diagram) be a section of the


earth's shadow at the distance of the moon; S, n, the path described by its centre, S, on the ecliptic; M, n, the relative orbit of the moon; M, n, S, n, being considered straight lines. Draw S, o, perpendicular to S, n, and S, m, to M, n; then o, and m, are in the places, with respect to S, of the moon in opposition, and at the middle of the eclipse.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2019, 05:06:20 AM »
Rowbotham explains in the article that "Earth's shadow" may be replaced with the term "the lunar eclipsor" with the same result. There is no geometry of the earth moon and sun in those equations.

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Offline stack

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Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2019, 08:08:42 AM »
Rowbotham explains in the article that "Earth's shadow" may be replaced with the term "the lunar eclipsor" with the same result. There is no geometry of the earth moon and sun in those equations.

Is Rowbotham's notion of a 'lunar eclipsor' based solely upon his belief that the earth is flat/sun & moon rotating above the disk and therefore it can't cast the shadow? Or is there some other observation(s) that confirmed for him this lunar eclipsor exists?
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.