shootingstar

Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #80 on: January 10, 2019, 07:21:40 PM »
Quote
The phenomenon of the Lunar Eclipse is evidence that something is casting a shadow on it. If the light from the moon is coming from the sun, that body must be somwhere between the path of the moon and the sun. Since we can't see any body at night, it must be on the day side


Yes you are absolutely right Tom. I don't hesitate to agree with you when you say something that is true and this is one of those occasions. The body that you talk about is the Earth itself. Common sense tells you that and the fact that you only see a total lunar eclipse at the time of Full Moon when the Earth is directly between the Sun and the Moon is a big clue to that. The Moon enters the Earths shadow and hence the Earth casts its shadow on it.  Ancient astronomers and philosophers even realised that.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 07:24:31 PM by shootingstar »

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5971
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #81 on: January 10, 2019, 08:03:11 PM »
Quote
The phenomenon of the Lunar Eclipse is evidence that something is casting a shadow on it. If the light from the moon is coming from the sun, that body must be somwhere between the path of the moon and the sun. Since we can't see any body at night, it must be on the day side


Yes you are absolutely right Tom. I don't hesitate to agree with you when you say something that is true and this is one of those occasions. The body that you talk about is the Earth itself. Common sense tells you that and the fact that you only see a total lunar eclipse at the time of Full Moon when the Earth is directly between the Sun and the Moon is a big clue to that. The Moon enters the Earths shadow and hence the Earth casts its shadow on it.  Ancient astronomers and philosophers even realised that.

Please show us your model. Provide the Three Body Problem solution for the Sun-Earth-Moon system.

The Lunar Eclipse does not seem to work at all in the Round Earth model. Not only is it unable to be modeled, some of the things that occur do not appear to be physically possible for RET.

Here is one for you. The eclipse is occurring at sunrise during the selenelion eclipse:



In the video the shadow of the earth is obscuring the moon from the top down rather than the bottom up, contrary to what would be expected when the earth is passing between the moon and sun. The sun's light should be peeking over the earth's horizon and hitting the moon from the top down.

Draw a diagram. Show how this is possible to cast a shadow that moves in this way.



Where is the sun? Is the sun at A, B or C? If there is an explanation, show us how it works. If this diagram is flawed in any manner, show the correct one. It is difficult to see how any nitpicking about scale makes this possible.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 08:12:12 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2019, 08:23:06 PM »
The selenehelion is already explained as possible due to atmospheric refraction. A topic on which you agree occurs.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5971
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2019, 08:31:57 PM »
The selenehelion is already explained as possible due to atmospheric refraction. A topic on which you agree occurs.

Can you draw a diagram for us?

These sources say that Astronomical Refraction isn't all that much:

http://www.aos.wisc.edu/~hopkins/ECS/fall_13/ECSf13supl03.html

Quote
In the morning, this ray bending causes the sun to appear above the horizon although the sun is actually below the horizon by approximately one half of a degree of arc.

http://www.heywhatsthat.com/cosmicfaq.html

Quote
How accurate are planetary positions?

The horizon line does not include the effects of astronomical refraction, which raises stars along the horizon by about one half of a degree

https://aty.sdsu.edu/explain/atmos_refr/astr_refr.html

Quote
Astronomical refraction

To give some rough numbers: the astronomical refraction is about a minute of arc in the part of the sky midway between zenith and astronomical horizon, but is typically over 30 minutes of arc (half a degree) at the horizon. (This is the basis for the common claim that “when you see the Sun just touching the horizon, it has already set.”) However, in the Novaya Zemlya effect, commonly observed at high latitudes, but occasionally seen even as close to the equator as San Diego, the horizontal refraction can exceed two degrees.

Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2019, 08:52:27 PM »
Quote
The phenomenon of the Lunar Eclipse is evidence that something is casting a shadow on it. If the light from the moon is coming from the sun, that body must be somwhere between the path of the moon and the sun. Since we can't see any body at night, it must be on the day side


Yes you are absolutely right Tom. I don't hesitate to agree with you when you say something that is true and this is one of those occasions. The body that you talk about is the Earth itself. Common sense tells you that and the fact that you only see a total lunar eclipse at the time of Full Moon when the Earth is directly between the Sun and the Moon is a big clue to that. The Moon enters the Earths shadow and hence the Earth casts its shadow on it.  Ancient astronomers and philosophers even realised that.

Please show us your model. Provide the Three Body Problem solution for the Sun-Earth-Moon system.

The Lunar Eclipse does not seem to work at all in the Round Earth model. Not only is it unable to be modeled, some of the things that occur do not appear to be physically possible for RET.

Here is one for you. The eclipse is occurring at sunrise during the selenelion eclipse:



In the video the shadow of the earth is obscuring the moon from the top down rather than the bottom up, contrary to what would be expected when the earth is passing between the moon and sun. The sun's light should be peeking over the earth's horizon and hitting the moon from the top down.

Draw a diagram. Show how this is possible to cast a shadow that moves in this way.



Where is the sun? Is the sun at A, B or C? If there is an explanation, show us how it works. If this diagram is flawed in any manner, show the correct one. It is difficult to see how any nitpicking about scale makes this possible.
Let's approach this from a different angle this time. What we need to visualize is the way the moon moves in relation to the Earth rotation and where the sun is. I'll make a small side note here, as this touches on a topic discussed elsewhere. If we were to watch this eclipse from the other side of the world (where the sun was setting) we would see exactly what you think we should be seeing here. This is because of globe nature of the Earth and how the moon shifts it's orientation to the horizon. We've touched on this before, so try and keep that at least somewhat in mind as we go forward here.

Whew, putting this together makes me wish I knew how to animate as it's gonna be rough trying to get this point across via text. But here goes. A rough sketch of the moon/Earth system. The arrows indicate the direction things are moving as we look down on it from Polaris. The Earth in blue rotates anticlockwise. The moon moves on it's orbital path anticlockwise. The whole system moves anticlockwise around the sun. This is what the arrows are for. The little red line is our viewer.



Now, as the Earth rotates around to bring the sun around to light up the horizon, and the moon sinks 'down' towards it's own horizon, the moon is moving along it's path as well. This brings it ever closer to the Earths shadow cast by the sun. If you notice, the shadow is 'above' the moon from the perspective of our red line. So as the moon moves into the shadow, it appears to creep from the top down. Again, if we were to watch this from the opposite side of the Earth we would watch the shadow move upwards from the bottom, as you no doubt expect it to.

This drawing clearly isn't to scale in any manner, I'm just hoping it can get the idea across. If I had any skills in animating I would take a swing at doing that, but alas.

EDIT: Oh, and as I know you're going to bring up the 'rising sun' bit, I'll reiterate the point from every single other time you bring this video up. The sun isn't actually risen by the time the video ends. Watch the water tower. No sunlight. This is during the 'twilight' period before the sun actually comes above the horizon, which can last for some time depending on the season. For example, today in Albuquerque twilight lasted approx. 1.5 hours.

Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #85 on: January 10, 2019, 09:01:26 PM »
Although the term "slight" is used in reference to a slight bending of the light of the sun, and the quantitative amount of atmospheric refraction is small, itself, the actual observed effect is quite large.  Henceforth, the following rest of the paragraph that you did not quote:

"At sunrise, the top rim of the apparent sun has been above the local horizon 4 minutes before the center of the actual sun would have reached the horizon without an atmosphere. Likewise at sunset, the sun appears to remain above the horizon for an additional 4 minutes, when in fact the solar disc has already disappeared."

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 873
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse
« Reply #86 on: January 11, 2019, 01:31:02 AM »
Please show us your model.

If you want to have the “selenelion” conversation, we can. There’s refraction, orbits/rotation, viewer’s location, etc. But the OP is:

- "From the FE perspective, do you believe it's possible to make such a prediction with this accuracy when the cause of such an event is a mysterious black sun?"
- "How is this possible on a flat earth for all of these places to observe this event at the same time in its entirety?”

So the OP is asking, please show us your model.

You claim RE’s is just patterns. But it’s clearly not. We can predict through patterns AND computation (lot’s of computations) exactly where, when and for how long totality will occur.

Here’s a long but really thorough explanation from Wolfram as to the 1000’s of years of observations, patterns and computations that have gone into to the modern ephemerides we rely on for these extremely precise predictions that we have today. All of which have culminated into a globe earth model of eclipse predictions for any point on the planet.

https://blog.stephenwolfram.com/2017/08/when-exactly-will-the-eclipse-happen-a-multimillenium-tale-of-computation/

So the question remains, since Globe earth uses patterns and computations for it’s precise predictions, if FE just uses patterns only, can FE predict exactly where, when and for how long totality will occur for any point on the flat earth? If so, please demonstrate - Show us your model.