Re: the ISS light in the sky is fake, right?
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2019, 03:26:44 PM »
If I can return to the original question, the ISS light in the sky is fake, right?

We see the ISS just as we do any other natural satellite passing through the sky, because of reflected sunlight. I will try to find the link again but somewhere I found a website of an image of the spectrum of the light from the ISS and it showed the same pattern of spectral lines as the Sun. Not surprising since the spectral lines from any light source will be visible whether observer directly or reflected.

So are questionning whether the ISS itself is fake, or the light reflected off the ISS is somehow a fake? Just curious. As an aside you can aim a pair of binoculars or a telescope at the ISS as it is passing over and see it in quite a lot of detail.  The main body shines with a brilliant white while the solar panels are a distinct bronze tint.

Offline iamcpc

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Re: the ISS light in the sky is fake, right?
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2019, 09:17:30 PM »
If I can return to the original question, the ISS light in the sky is fake, right?

We see the ISS just as we do any other natural satellite passing through the sky, because of reflected sunlight. I will try to find the link again but somewhere I found a website of an image of the spectrum of the light from the ISS and it showed the same pattern of spectral lines as the Sun. Not surprising since the spectral lines from any light source will be visible whether observer directly or reflected.

So are questionning whether the ISS itself is fake, or the light reflected off the ISS is somehow a fake? Just curious. As an aside you can aim a pair of binoculars or a telescope at the ISS as it is passing over and see it in quite a lot of detail.  The main body shines with a brilliant white while the solar panels are a distinct bronze tint.

This question "what is this thing that looks like the ISS that i'm able to see in the sky with a telescope in my backyeard" has been asked a few times with
several different answers:

1. Some sort of aircraft
2. Some sort of naturally occurring space debris like an asteroid.
3. A weather balooon
4. A high altitude station which is not in space.

Re: the ISS light in the sky is fake, right?
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2019, 09:40:21 PM »
If I can return to the original question, the ISS light in the sky is fake, right?

We see the ISS just as we do any other natural satellite passing through the sky, because of reflected sunlight. I will try to find the link again but somewhere I found a website of an image of the spectrum of the light from the ISS and it showed the same pattern of spectral lines as the Sun. Not surprising since the spectral lines from any light source will be visible whether observer directly or reflected.

So are questionning whether the ISS itself is fake, or the light reflected off the ISS is somehow a fake? Just curious. As an aside you can aim a pair of binoculars or a telescope at the ISS as it is passing over and see it in quite a lot of detail.  The main body shines with a brilliant white while the solar panels are a distinct bronze tint.

This question "what is this thing that looks like the ISS that i'm able to see in the sky with a telescope in my backyeard" has been asked a few times with
several different answers:

1. Some sort of aircraft
2. Some sort of naturally occurring space debris like an asteroid.
3. A weather balooon
4. A high altitude station which is not in space.

How do any of these explanations account for when you see the ISS through a telescope like with this footage?

(Raw footage in description)

I mean, that's got to be one really weird airplane (one that probably couldn't fly if you tried to build what you saw), sure doesn't look like a rock, doesn't look like a balloon either, and to my knowledge, the high altitude stations you're referencing are like the HAA's Lockheed Martin has, and those are basically blimps (unless you meant something else by high altitude station). So what is it these independent astronomers are seeing? Are they too under NASA's payroll? Are we just seeing CGI or a model or something?
We are smarter than those scientists.
Hmm. So Tom Bishop is a Russian spy. That would explain why he is so dedicated.

Offline iamcpc

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Re: the ISS light in the sky is fake, right?
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2019, 11:49:49 PM »
This question "what is this thing that looks like the ISS that i'm able to see in the sky with a telescope in my backyeard" has been asked a few times with
several different answers:

1. Some sort of aircraft
2. Some sort of naturally occurring space debris like an asteroid.
3. A weather balooon
4. A high altitude station which is not in space.

How do any of these explanations account for when you see the ISS through a telescope like with this footage?

(Raw footage in description)

I mean, that's got to be one really weird airplane (one that probably couldn't fly if you tried to build what you saw), sure doesn't look like a rock, doesn't look like a balloon either, and to my knowledge, the high altitude stations you're referencing are like the HAA's Lockheed Martin has, and those are basically blimps (unless you meant something else by high altitude station).

It could be some sort of high altitude experimental aircraft. I don't know.
Some people would disagree when you claim that it does not look like a rock.
Some people would disagree when you claim that it does not look a balloon.
It could be a high altitude solar panel.



So what is it these independent astronomers are seeing?

What these independent astronomers are seeing has already been listed in my response:
1. Some sort of experimental or oddly shaped aircraft
2. Some sort of naturally occurring space debris like an asteroid.
3. some sort of experimental or oddly shaped  weather balloon
4. A high altitude station which is not in space.
5. Some sort of upper atmosphere disturbance which causes light from the sun to refract in a specific way
(please keep in mind that I could provide many other things what you are seeing is)


Furthermore I'm unaware of what equipment is being used to lock onto and follow something that is moving that fast up in the sky.



Look at this video. An independent astronomer with a telescope/camera and a tripod is unable to "track" this moving aircraft/rock/balloon/mirage/upper atmosphere station. It just zips by. In the video you presented it looks like it is from some sort of professional observatory which very likely could be getting some sort of NASA funding.



Are they too under NASA's payroll? Are we just seeing CGI or a model or something?

Some of them could be on the NASA's payroll. I would venture to say that a majority of the FE community would not say that some guy with a camera and a tripod who sees this is on the NASA payroll. A big name observatory, which created the video you have shown, could very possibly be getting some sort of NASA funding.

What you are seeing is not a CGI model.  What you are seeing is:

1. Some sort of experimental or oddly shaped aircraft
2. Some sort of naturally occurring space debris like an asteroid.
3. some sort of experimental or oddly shaped  weather balloon
4. A high altitude station which is not in space.
5. Some sort of upper atmosphere disturbance which causes light from the sun to refract in a specific way
(please keep in mind that I could provide many other things what you are seeing is)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 11:57:21 PM by iamcpc »

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Offline stack

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Re: the ISS light in the sky is fake, right?
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2019, 12:22:25 AM »
What you are seeing is not a CGI model.  What you are seeing is:

1. Some sort of experimental or oddly shaped aircraft
2. Some sort of naturally occurring space debris like an asteroid.
3. some sort of experimental or oddly shaped  weather balloon
4. A high altitude station which is not in space.
5. Some sort of upper atmosphere disturbance which causes light from the sun to refract in a specific way
(please keep in mind that I could provide many other things what you are seeing is)

Here are 4 amateur shots:



1. I agree in a sense, it appears to be some sort of experimental or oddly shaped craft. The ISS is, in fact, an experimental, oddly shaped craft
2. Nothing here looks to be 'organic', as in natural. I think anyone would be hard-pressed to claim it to be.
3. It definitely does not scream balloon*
4. Perhaps*
5. That would have to be a very specific refraction that would have to occur for everyone around the world who has ever observed it in exactly the same way, always

*An explanation would be required as to it's speed and the fact that anyone can track it, see it overhead in one location. And another person, 45 minutes later, on the opposite side of the earth, 10,000 miles away, can track it, see it overhead.

Re: the ISS light in the sky is fake, right?
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2019, 12:26:04 AM »
This question "what is this thing that looks like the ISS that i'm able to see in the sky with a telescope in my backyeard" has been asked a few times with
several different answers:

1. Some sort of aircraft
2. Some sort of naturally occurring space debris like an asteroid.
3. A weather balooon
4. A high altitude station which is not in space.

How do any of these explanations account for when you see the ISS through a telescope like with this footage?

(Raw footage in description)

I mean, that's got to be one really weird airplane (one that probably couldn't fly if you tried to build what you saw), sure doesn't look like a rock, doesn't look like a balloon either, and to my knowledge, the high altitude stations you're referencing are like the HAA's Lockheed Martin has, and those are basically blimps (unless you meant something else by high altitude station).

It could be some sort of high altitude experimental aircraft. I don't know.
Some people would disagree when you claim that it does not look like a rock.
Some people would disagree when you claim that it does not look a balloon.
It could be a high altitude solar panel.

This is sounding awfully like the counter arguments to that looks like a duck sounds like a duck walks like a duck thing. I understand what you mean though, we can't conclusively rule them out, until you really look into each of them, like you analyze aircraft designs, conclude under known aviation principles and aerodynamics that an aircraft of the design of the ISS would be impossible to fly and things like that, and even then, you'd have to keep up with current info on aviation and update your explanation.

So what is it these independent astronomers are seeing?

What these independent astronomers are seeing has already been listed in my response:
1. Some sort of experimental or oddly shaped aircraft
2. Some sort of naturally occurring space debris like an asteroid.
3. some sort of experimental or oddly shaped  weather balloon
4. A high altitude station which is not in space.
5. Some sort of upper atmosphere disturbance which causes light from the sun to refract in a specific way
(please keep in mind that I could provide many other things what you are seeing is)


Furthermore I'm unaware of what equipment is being used to lock onto and follow something that is moving that fast up in the sky.



Look at this video. An independent astronomer with a telescope/camera and a tripod is unable to "track" this moving aircraft/rock/balloon/mirage/upper atmosphere station. It just zips by. In the video you presented it looks like it is from some sort of professional observatory which very likely could be getting some sort of NASA funding.

Sorry I wasn't more clear about it in my prior post. It's from the 80 cm telescope of the Public Observatory in Munich, but as the name suggests, it is indeed open to the public and they do let visitors look through the telescopes.
http://www.sternwarte-muenchen.de/portrait_e.html

Are they too under NASA's payroll? Are we just seeing CGI or a model or something?

Some of them could be on the NASA's payroll. I would venture to say that a majority of the FE community would not say that some guy with a camera and a tripod who sees this is on the NASA payroll. A big name observatory, which created the video you have shown, could very possibly be getting some sort of NASA funding.

What you are seeing is not a CGI model.  What you are seeing is:

1. Some sort of experimental or oddly shaped aircraft
2. Some sort of naturally occurring space debris like an asteroid.
3. some sort of experimental or oddly shaped  weather balloon
4. A high altitude station which is not in space.
5. Some sort of upper atmosphere disturbance which causes light from the sun to refract in a specific way
(please keep in mind that I could provide many other things what you are seeing is)

I'm not sure how big name the Public Observatory is, and they could be getting funding from NASA, if they are a sponsor, but faking it live when the ISS is to pass for visitors sounds rather difficult. I don't live in Munich sadly, so if there are any FE'ers who live there, it would be nice if we could get a firsthand report from someone there for tracking an ISS passing.
We are smarter than those scientists.
Hmm. So Tom Bishop is a Russian spy. That would explain why he is so dedicated.

Offline iamcpc

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Re: the ISS light in the sky is fake, right?
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2019, 01:17:35 AM »
I'm not sure how big name the Public Observatory is, and they could be getting funding from NASA, if they are a sponsor, but faking it live when the ISS is to pass for visitors sounds rather difficult. I don't live in Munich sadly, so if there are any FE'ers who live there, it would be nice if we could get a firsthand report from someone there for tracking an ISS passing.

Where did a Public Observatory come up with the money to afford an 80Cm telescope with advanced tracking technology to be able to lock onto, and maintain focus on, an object darting across the sky?

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Offline stack

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Re: the ISS light in the sky is fake, right?
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2019, 01:21:21 AM »
I'm not sure how big name the Public Observatory is, and they could be getting funding from NASA, if they are a sponsor, but faking it live when the ISS is to pass for visitors sounds rather difficult. I don't live in Munich sadly, so if there are any FE'ers who live there, it would be nice if we could get a firsthand report from someone there for tracking an ISS passing.

Where did a Public Observatory come up with the money to afford an 80Cm telescope with advanced tracking technology to be able to lock onto, and maintain focus on, an object darting across the sky?

"Our 80 cm Cassegrain reflecting telescope with 8 m focal length, equipped with an altitude - azimuth computer controlled mount and located in a 3x3 m wheeled hut. This large telescope was inaugurated on 13 January 2005. It is one of the largest telescopes accessible by the public in central europe. Its enormous light gathering power gives impressive views of distant celestial objects like nebula, star clusters und galaxies. The generous donations of our many godfathers of dedications of stars allowed us to construct this instrument."

Re: the ISS light in the sky is fake, right?
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2019, 01:51:23 AM »
There are plenty of observatories that have really nice telescopes that were either donated or obtained through a grant. Take for instance, my alma mater, Rose-Hulman. They have an observatory called the Oakley observatory. Most of it was either funded by rich alumni or through the Oakley Foundation. No association with NASA. They regularly provide astronomical observations, data and images to Minor Planet Center at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. It's not that far fetched.

Re: the ISS light in the sky is fake, right?
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2019, 02:02:54 PM »
I'm not sure how big name the Public Observatory is, and they could be getting funding from NASA, if they are a sponsor, but faking it live when the ISS is to pass for visitors sounds rather difficult. I don't live in Munich sadly, so if there are any FE'ers who live there, it would be nice if we could get a firsthand report from someone there for tracking an ISS passing.

Where did a Public Observatory come up with the money to afford an 80Cm telescope with advanced tracking technology to be able to lock onto, and maintain focus on, an object darting across the sky?

Well, from donations, like stack noted, membership fees, an annual grant from the city of Munich, and from some  sponsors if you clicked on the link I gave you (there's probably some financial documents that disclose that out there somewhere, I'll see what I can dig up to see if NASA is one of them.)
We are smarter than those scientists.
Hmm. So Tom Bishop is a Russian spy. That would explain why he is so dedicated.

Offline JCM

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Re: the ISS light in the sky is fake, right?
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2019, 05:15:03 PM »

Furthermore I'm unaware of what equipment is being used to lock onto and follow something that is moving that fast up in the sky.



Look at this video. An independent astronomer with a telescope/camera and a tripod is unable to "track" this moving aircraft/rock/balloon/mirage/upper atmosphere station. It just zips by. In the video you presented it looks like it is from some sort of professional observatory which very likely could be getting some sort of NASA funding.
He is unable to track it because an EQ mount or Alt-Az mount is designed to track objects in the sky mathematically based on the rotation of the Earth, the latitude, and location of Polaris if in Northern Hemisphere or a few bright objects you use to calibrate.  Most EQ mounts for example are designed to work best at specific latitude ranges to keep the same object in its sights near perfectly for hours for imaging.  You can’t just look at an object and expect such a mount to follow it, that would take software and a custom program to control the mount to track the ISS moving in a few minutes across the sky.  Moving a telescope by hand to perfectly track the ISS would obviously be difficult.

With the right equipment tank shells are tracked through the air.  YouTube it.  The idea that you can’t track something that takes four to five minutes to cross the sky is a little silly when you can video in high def a tank shell from its firing to the target.  If it costs a few thousand dollars, what does that matter?  I am currently saving money for a TEC140 telescope that costs about $7000 with an EQ mount costing $2500.  When I attend skywatching parties, amateurs regularly bring telescopes which cost over $10000 on mounts that cost over $4000.  One local amateur skywatcher built his own observatory, must have cost him $60000 and his pictures and video would rival that public observatory.  A simple visit to an active astronomy club will show you the great lengths skywatchers are going for their hobby.