Re: Build Wall
« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2019, 03:48:28 PM »
This is a little cherry picking though. Were they voting for and against a wall specifically? Or the bill as a whole?


The bill as a whole.  But it included fun things like ending chain immigration and limiting immigrants.


Not sure what else it had that Republicans voted down.

Re: Build Wall
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2019, 11:34:29 PM »
Well, it appears I ran away from Rushy like the coward I am.

It's the only solution that stops foot traffic aside from something like a minefield or a trench. One of those things would cause an international crisis and the other is just plain silly. We could always take the Israeli route, since they found out shooting on sight does wonders for deterring border jumpers. You also need to think about the future. What happens if climate change really does cause Central America to collapse into chaos? We're going to need a lot more than just a wall, but saying the wall won't help at all is nonsense. It's a practical solution and has been throughout human history. Walls aren't 100% effective, but they're not 0% effective.
I'm sure we're both creative enough to think of a half-dozen solutions that are at least as practical as a giant wall. Like moats, or a team of patrols with satellite observers. Walls didn't do shit to stop the Mongols, and in an age of air travel, sea travel, and ladders, it won't stop any significant amount now. At a minimum, I think we can find common ground that the cost of the wall (Numbers vary, but at least in the billions for constructions and hundreds of millions annually to maintain) and a month of a federal government shutdown probably wasn't worth what we'd get out of it if we even built it. Which is looking unlikely.

We won't even touch the hypocrisy of a man who campaigned on Mexico building the wall now asking Americans to pay for it.

This is exactly the problem. You've become convinced it's a race issue because some subset of people might actually have that belief. That is pointless generalization and honestly I thought someone like you wouldn't seriously believe it applies widely to the entire problem. It's a childish oversimplification. It's the equivalent of me saying that anyone against the wall is simply a drug addict that is scared their supplies might get interrupted, which would probably describe a lot of the people against it. Maybe everyone against the wall really is trying to import voters, or maybe they're all people who are avid sex traffickers. Does that make these a valid argument? No, because I think the issue a lot more complicated than just one subset of people with irrational beliefs.
I'd find this argument more compelling if we ever talked about border security with Canada, where it's mostly white people. Terrorists and drugs come from up north as well, including famously the 9/11 hijackers. If trafficking was the real focus, we'd worry about both borders. If immigration is the issue, we'd not be talking about the wall because most undocumented immigrants don't come from foot traffic across the border. There are racists and xenophobes that get to vote same as everyone else, and I have a feeling they've gone overwhelmingly to one guy.

Not that this is the focus on why a wall is a bad idea. It's just such a bad idea that I'd argue the majority of people supporting it are either daft, or pretending to be daft because they don't like brown people.

I doubt you even live in the US.
lol
You don't think I'm going to post here sober, do you?  ???

I have embraced my Benny Franko side. I'm sleazy.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Build Wall
« Reply #62 on: January 31, 2019, 07:17:50 PM »


Good question.

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Offline stack

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Re: Build Wall
« Reply #63 on: January 31, 2019, 09:45:35 PM »


Good question.

The 32 billion dollar figure for human trafficking seems to have come from a United Nations 2005 report:

https://www.unodc.org/documents/human-trafficking/UNVTF_fs_HT_EN.pdf

In it, it states:

"The UNODC report Trafficking in persons to Europe for sexual exploitation shows that this is one of the most lucrative illicit businesses in Europe."

"In Europe over half of the victims come from the Balkans (32 per cent) and the former Soviet Union (19 per cent), with 13 per cent originating in South America, seven per cent in Central Europe, five per cent in Africa and three per cent in East Asia."

"Although victims from Eastern Europe tend to be found throughout Europe, victims from South America tend to be concentrated in several European countries. East Asian victims have also been increasingly detected in many European countries and in some countries are the group most exploited."

No mention of the US, let alone the southern border. But who knows, maybe the problem is far greater here now then back then. I'm just using the 32 billion figure as a reference point from the quote.

Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Build Wall
« Reply #64 on: January 31, 2019, 10:42:05 PM »
Does it matter how many billions? Your approach to debating on this forum makes it appear as if you have no issue with the premise of the subjects you discuss.

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Offline stack

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Re: Build Wall
« Reply #65 on: January 31, 2019, 11:59:35 PM »
Does it matter how many billions? Your approach to debating on this forum makes it appear as if you have no issue with the premise of the subjects you discuss.

Not sure I follow your logic. You posted essentially a meme I guess insinuating that Democrats are somehow profiting from Human Trafficking and Cartel Drug Smuggling. The meme referenced some figures. I looked up the figures. And essentially, for the Human Trafficking dollar amount it's a global figure. No mention of the US, nor the southern border. Which I presume this thread is about given the title. Point being, If you're going to post what you think is a clever meme, A) get your facts straight and B) make it at least relevant.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Build Wall
« Reply #66 on: February 01, 2019, 12:23:59 AM »
In the image the text actually specifically says "Global human trafficking." It seems that is you who can't get their facts straight, and appear to have been outsmarted by "Jali_Cat" on the twitters.

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Re: Build Wall
« Reply #67 on: February 01, 2019, 12:37:28 AM »
In the image the text actually specifically says "Global human trafficking." It seems that is you who can't get their facts straight, and appear to have been outsmarted by "Jali_Cat" on the twitters.

Right, but there's no mention of the US, let alone the southern border, in the UN report that references that figure. Yet somehow it manages to insinuate that Democrats are profiting from Global Human Traffic. Odd, disingenuous and irrelevant to this thread. I think you're the one that who got outsmarted by the twitters.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Build Wall
« Reply #68 on: February 01, 2019, 12:39:55 AM »
In the image the text actually specifically says "Global human trafficking." It seems that is you who can't get their facts straight, and appear to have been outsmarted by "Jali_Cat" on the twitters.

Right, but there's no mention of the US, let alone the southern border, in the UN report that references that figure. Yet somehow it manages to insinuate that Democrats are profiting from Global Human Traffic. Odd, disingenuous and irrelevant to this thread. I think you're the one that who got outsmarted by the twitters.

Why does it need to? International Human Traffickers have an interest in keeping the US borders open in effort to increase revenue flow there. As do International Drug Cartels. The quote is accurate, and relevant.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 06:32:16 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Online Rama Set

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Re: Build Wall
« Reply #69 on: February 01, 2019, 01:02:16 AM »
In the image the text actually specifically says "Global human trafficking." It seems that is you who can't get their facts straight, and appear to have been outsmarted by "Jali_Cat" on the twitters.

Right, but there's no mention of the US, let alone the southern border, in the UN report that references that figure. Yet somehow it manages to insinuate that Democrats are profiting from Global Human Traffic. Odd, disingenuous and irrelevant to this thread. I think you're the one that who got outsmarted by the twitters.

Why does there have to? International Human Traffickers have an interest in keeping the US borders open in effort to increase revenue flow there. As do International Drug Cartels. The quote is accurate, and relevant.

Drug Traffickers admittedly use the southern terrestial border of the united states very rarely. Instead they use nautical and aerial methods of smuggling.  The border wall will be irrelevant to the stemming the flow of illegal drugs.   i sincerely doubt a wall between Mexico and the USA will do much to stifle the global human trafficking problem.  Education and economic development are the likely antidotes to terrible problems like those.  Posting irrelevant numbers like "$32 billion!!!" or "50,000,000 people are involved in human trafficking!!!" is partisan hackery in the shape of hyperbole and contributes little in the way of solutions to the problem. 

The democrats have already offered to partially fund the border wall/fence/barrier, so why not give that a chance and see if it can grow from there. In doing so, the government won't have to bite the people who they are ultimately there to serve.

You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

Re: Build Wall
« Reply #70 on: February 01, 2019, 04:08:34 AM »
How much (involuntary)human trafficking goes through the non-fenced US border, Tom?
How much Drugs?  Not drugs that go through ports of entry, I mean stuff that goes through non-walled areas.


Also, the border is tight.  We don't need additional walls.

"With so much talk about the Wall, people are losing sight of the great job being done on our Southern Border by Border Patrol, ICE and our great Military. Remember the Caravans? Well, they didn’t get through and none are forming or on their way. Border is tight." -Senior White House Official

Re: Build Wall
« Reply #71 on: February 01, 2019, 11:32:45 AM »
Drug Traffickers admittedly use the southern terrestial border of the united states very rarely. Instead they use nautical and aerial methods of smuggling.  The border wall will be irrelevant to the stemming the flow of illegal drugs.
Oops...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/feds-make-largest-fentanyl-bust-u-s-history-n965486

"In the latest case, the tractor-trailer was stopped Saturday trying to enter the U.S. through the border checkpoint in Nogales, Arizona."

Yeah, that reads just like a nautical or aerial shipment...

One could only imagine what would happen with no wall directing traffic to a legitimate point of entry...probably nothing...
How much (involuntary)human trafficking goes through the non-fenced US border, Tom?
How much Drugs?  Not drugs that go through ports of entry, I mean stuff that goes through non-walled areas.
See above.
Also, the border is tight.  We don't need additional walls.
You and your mouse sitting comfortably in your basement maybe not...the rest of us, think it is a very good idea.
"With so much talk about the Wall, people are losing sight of the great job being done on our Southern Border by Border Patrol, ICE and our great Military. Remember the Caravans? Well, they didn’t get through and none are forming or on their way. Border is tight." -Senior White House Official
Yeah, the senior WH official is a jackwagon quote, probably just like the rest of the frequent jackwagon quotes you so frequently find...much in the same vein as, "anonymous sources."

Re: Build Wall
« Reply #72 on: February 01, 2019, 11:56:28 AM »
And this, people, is why I know Lakey is a troll.  And a bad one at that.  Doesn't even bother googling the damn quote.


Hey genius: its Truth, according to you anyway.  Go look up the source.  Its public.  Hell, its proof you are a troll that you didn't know it.

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Online Rama Set

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Re: Build Wall
« Reply #73 on: February 01, 2019, 12:18:38 PM »
Drug Traffickers admittedly use the southern terrestial border of the united states very rarely. Instead they use nautical and aerial methods of smuggling.  The border wall will be irrelevant to the stemming the flow of illegal drugs.
Oops...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/feds-make-largest-fentanyl-bust-u-s-history-n965486

"In the latest case, the tractor-trailer was stopped Saturday trying to enter the U.S. through the border checkpoint in Nogales, Arizona."

Yeah, that reads just like a nautical or aerial shipment...

One could only imagine what would happen with no wall directing traffic to a legitimate point of entry...probably nothing...
How much (involuntary)human trafficking goes through the non-fenced US border, Tom?
How much Drugs?  Not drugs that go through ports of entry, I mean stuff that goes through non-walled areas.
See above.
Also, the border is tight.  We don't need additional walls.
You and your mouse sitting comfortably in your basement maybe not...the rest of us, think it is a very good idea.
"With so much talk about the Wall, people are losing sight of the great job being done on our Southern Border by Border Patrol, ICE and our great Military. Remember the Caravans? Well, they didn’t get through and none are forming or on their way. Border is tight." -Senior White House Official
Yeah, the senior WH official is a jackwagon quote, probably just like the rest of the frequent jackwagon quotes you so frequently find...much in the same vein as, "anonymous sources."

Largest fentanyl bust in history != terrestrial transportation their main smuggling method.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

Re: Build Wall
« Reply #74 on: February 01, 2019, 01:10:21 PM »
And this, people, is why I know Lakey is a troll.  And a bad one at that.  Doesn't even bother googling the damn quote.


Hey genius: its Truth, according to you anyway.  Go look up the source.  Its public.  Hell, its proof you are a troll that you didn't know it.
Why should I google a quote?

Only trolls, like MSM and you, post quotes without definitive attribution...and quite the norm for you and your ilk...
Drug Traffickers admittedly use the southern terrestial border of the united states very rarely. Instead they use nautical and aerial methods of smuggling.  The border wall will be irrelevant to the stemming the flow of illegal drugs.
Largest fentanyl bust in history != terrestrial transportation their main smuggling method.
Way to guard that intellectual honesty high bar you set for yourself there, Rama!

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Offline honk

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Re: Build Wall
« Reply #75 on: February 01, 2019, 01:54:07 PM »
The fentanyl bust hardly makes a case for the wall, given how the smuggler was trying to take it through a legal checkpoint.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

Re: Build Wall
« Reply #76 on: February 01, 2019, 01:58:41 PM »
The fentanyl bust hardly makes a case for the wall, given how the smuggler was trying to take it through a legal checkpoint.
Durrr...yeah, it does...

Without a wall. there are no legal checkpoints...

You do not take smuggling detection to open areas of desert...

You take that shit to...wait for it...CHECKPOINTS!

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Offline stack

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Re: Build Wall
« Reply #77 on: February 01, 2019, 06:18:04 PM »
The fentanyl bust hardly makes a case for the wall, given how the smuggler was trying to take it through a legal checkpoint.
Durrr...yeah, it does...

Without a wall. there are no legal checkpoints...

You do not take smuggling detection to open areas of desert...

You take that shit to...wait for it...CHECKPOINTS!

I'm not sure I get your point. Today there are 48 U.S.–Mexico border crossings, with 330 ports of entry.

Do you want the new wall so we can have more legal ports of entry?
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

Re: Build Wall
« Reply #78 on: February 01, 2019, 07:49:54 PM »
And this, people, is why I know Lakey is a troll.  And a bad one at that.  Doesn't even bother googling the damn quote.


Hey genius: its Truth, according to you anyway.  Go look up the source.  Its public.  Hell, its proof you are a troll that you didn't know it.
Why should I google a quote?

Only trolls, like MSM and you, post quotes without definitive attribution...and quite the norm for you and your ilk...


If you googled it, you'll know that it IS a named source.  I just removed the name to prove a point.  So thanks, you've made me smile.

Re: Build Wall
« Reply #79 on: February 02, 2019, 09:11:14 AM »
The fentanyl bust hardly makes a case for the wall, given how the smuggler was trying to take it through a legal checkpoint.


Even better: the border wall ends about six miles to thr west of the border point.


If smugglers avoid walls, why drive through a gate and not in an unwalled area 6 miles away?  Weird...