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Offline markjo

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Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2018, 12:25:49 AM »
Tom, how is that relevant to how sunsets work in FET?

The failure of science to explain this is entirely relevant.
I disagree.  FET explanations need to stand on their own merit, regardless of any perceived failures of RET.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2018, 12:32:34 AM »
Tom, how is that relevant to how sunsets work in FET?

The failure of science to explain this is entirely relevant.
I disagree.  FET explanations need to stand on their own merit, regardless of any perceived failures of RET.

Avoiding the topic is a submission of defeat. If you guys are unwilling or unable to explain or defend your RET, then I may as well be writing to myself.

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Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2018, 12:37:01 AM »
Tom, how is that relevant to how sunsets work in FET?

The failure of science to explain this is entirely relevant.
I disagree.  FET explanations need to stand on their own merit, regardless of any perceived failures of RET.

Avoiding the topic is a submission of defeat. If you guys are unwilling or unable to explain or defend your RET, then I may as well be writing to myself.

What exactly is the topic we are to be defeated by?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2018, 12:37:44 AM »
What exactly is the topic we are to be defeated by?

See the thread. You guys are unable to explain why the sun is inconsistently bright.

Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2018, 12:51:20 AM »
I already have explained why the Sun is inconsistently bright or did you miss that bit?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2018, 12:58:27 AM »
You have not explained anything other than to declare it to be inconsistently bright. Why is the sun inconsistently bright? Why should the temperatures of the sun's corona, photosphere, and core be so different?

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Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2018, 01:11:51 AM »
You have not explained anything other than to declare it to be inconsistently bright. Why is the sun inconsistently bright? Why should the temperatures of the sun's corona, photosphere, and core be so different?

The answer in the wiki is in regard to:

Q: If the sun is disappearing (due) to perspective, shouldn't it get smaller as it recedes?
A: The sun remains the same size as it recedes into the distance due to a known magnification effect caused by the intense rays of light passing through the strata of the atmolayer.

The contention is that that is not the case. I fail to see why the question of "Why is the sun inconsistently bright?" is relevant. And the FET wiki explanation doesn't address this either.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2018, 01:27:36 AM »
It does address it. Projections are inconsistently bright.

You refuse to address this for your RET, while simultaneously claiming that your RET provides the better explanations. If it does, explain it.

Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2018, 01:28:53 AM »
It does address it. Projections are inconsistently bright.

You refuse to address this for your RET, while simultaneously claiming that your RET provides the better explanations. If it does, explain it.
1. LoveScience DID give you the RE explanation for it on the previous page. If you didn't understand it try reading it again, or ask for clarification.
2. The sun being a projection doesn't explain the *why* of it not changing size throughout the day. If I move a light source projecting onto a screen around behind the screen, the projection will change size too.
3. The sun being a projection (and thus never seeing the actual sun) raises a number of problems for FE. You no longer have any idea of anything to do with it's location/size, and you now have an even greater conundrum in explaining just what powers it (this was already a major issue, but as a projection acting in the way you claim the actual sun must be SMALLER than the projection).

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2018, 01:29:55 AM »
Where did LoveScience solve one of the "most significant unsolved problems in astrophysics"? Please quote it for us.

Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2018, 01:42:12 AM »
Where did LoveScience solve one of the "most significant unsolved problems in astrophysics"? Please quote it for us.
He explained why the sun is inconsistently bright, which is what you were asking. That's not the same thing as why the outer parts of the sun are hotter. If you wish to provide an FE explanation for why they're hotter feel free, but I suspect you don't actually think they're hotter under the FEH.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2018, 01:50:12 AM »
I don't see a quote where one of the "most significant unsolved problems in astrophysics" was solved. Please quote it.

The inconsistent brightness of the sun is a mystery in Round Earth Theory. See the article posted on the previous page. If you are claiming that the Round Earth Theory provides the better explanations then I expect you guys to solve this mystery.

Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2018, 01:55:57 AM »
I don't see a quote where one of the "most significant unsolved problems in astrophysics" was solved. Please quote it.

The inconsistent brightness of the sun is a mystery in Round Earth Theory. See the article posted on the previous page. If you are claiming that the Round Earth Theory provides the better explanations then I expect you guys to solve this mystery.
The mystery is "Why is the corona hotter than the center" not "Why is the sun inconsistently bright." I don't know how to put it more plainly. We know why the sun is inconsistently bright:

Tom, regarding your question...
Quote
I do believe that is the sun. I am asking why the outer edges of the sun are significantly dimmer than the center of the sun like a projection on a movie screen.


The answer I have provided elsewhere but I will say it again.  This is a well known phenomenon we see in 'white light' called limb darkening.  The Suns 'surface' is actually a layer of its atmosphere known as the photosphere. Looking in the centre of the visible disk we are looking directly down into the lower levels of the photosphere where the plasma is hotter than in the upper levels. Hotter is always brighter on the Sun.  At the edges we are looking more obliquely across the upper layers only where the plasma is cooler and hence darker.  This gives the effect of limb darkening.


When observing the Sun at specific wavelengths such as Ha and CaK we are looking at light emissions coming from the chromosphere (sphere of colour) The chromosphere is above the photosphere and is normally invisible without special filters apart from during a total solar eclipse.  If you look closely at photos showing totality you will notice the reddish prominences looking like flames arcing away from the solar limb. These are coming from the chromosphere.   

The chromosphere, though much hotter than the photosphere is emitting light only at specific wavelengths and therefore the darkening effect is much less.

We DON'T know:
Quote
"Why the Sun's corona is so hot is a long-standing puzzle. It's as if a flame were coming out of an ice cube. It doesn't make any sense!" - David H Brook
They are NOT the same thing.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2018, 02:00:58 AM »
The explanation given by LoveScience is that the plasma is cooler there, and therefore darker. I have some doubts that a scientific journal or the field of Astrophysics will accept that explanation and consider this matter solved. Do you think that they would consider it solved based on that?

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Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2018, 02:03:54 AM »
The explanation given by LoveScience is that the plasma is cooler there, and therefore darker. I have some doubts that a scientific journal or the field of Astrophysics will accept that explanation and consider this matter solved. Do you think that they would consider it solved based on that?

The NASA paper you cited is talked about the heat of the corona. We typically don't view the corona in an everyday sunset.

"The corona is usually hidden by the bright light of the Sun's surface. That makes it difficult to see without using special instruments. However, the corona can be seen during a total solar eclipse."

The corona is not relevant to the discussion.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2018, 02:07:19 AM »
The explanation given by LoveScience is that the plasma is cooler there, and therefore darker. I have some doubts that a scientific journal or the field of Astrophysics will accept that explanation and consider this matter solved. Do you think that they would consider it solved based on that?

The NASA paper you cited is talked about the heat of the corona. We typically don't view the corona in an everyday sunset.

"The corona is usually hidden by the bright light of the Sun's surface. That makes it difficult to see without using special instruments. However, the corona can be seen during a total solar eclipse."

The corona is not relevant to the discussion.

It's talking about the cool outer photosphere, and how odd it is that the corona is so much hotter. The outer photosphere is the dim areas we saw in the images of the sun. Directly relevant.

The core and corona of the sun is so much hotter. Why?

Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2018, 02:07:59 AM »
The explanation given by LoveScience is that the plasma is cooler there, and therefore darker. I have some doubts that a scientific journal or the field of Astrophysics will accept that explanation and consider this matter solved. Do you think that they would consider it solved based on that?
I'm neither a scientific journal, nor an Astrophysicist so I have no idea. I can say his explanation seems logical to me at least, but that's about it. Last I checked you weren't either of the aforementioned entities either, so from what knowledge do you claim to know what they would accept?

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Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2018, 02:17:07 AM »
The explanation given by LoveScience is that the plasma is cooler there, and therefore darker. I have some doubts that a scientific journal or the field of Astrophysics will accept that explanation and consider this matter solved. Do you think that they would consider it solved based on that?

The NASA paper you cited is talked about the heat of the corona. We typically don't view the corona in an everyday sunset.

"The corona is usually hidden by the bright light of the Sun's surface. That makes it difficult to see without using special instruments. However, the corona can be seen during a total solar eclipse."

The corona is not relevant to the discussion.

It's talking about the cool outer photosphere, and how odd it is that the corona is so much hotter. The outer photosphere is the dim areas we saw in the images of the sun. Directly relevant.

The core and corona of the sun is so much hotter. Why?

Correct, the cooler photosphere is what we see as the edge of the sun at sunset. Why the corona, which is above and outside the photosphere, and usually seen only during an eclipse and not your every day sunset, is hotter than the surface of the sun (the photosphere)? You got me. But we don't see the corona everyday. We do see the cooler photosphere and there is a non-FE/non-GE reason why it appears dimmed. You're mixing two things together that shouldn't be.

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Offline markjo

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Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2018, 02:49:43 AM »
The explanation given by LoveScience is that the plasma is cooler there, and therefore darker. I have some doubts that a scientific journal or the field of Astrophysics will accept that explanation and consider this matter solved. Do you think that they would consider it solved based on that?

The NASA paper you cited is talked about the heat of the corona. We typically don't view the corona in an everyday sunset.

"The corona is usually hidden by the bright light of the Sun's surface. That makes it difficult to see without using special instruments. However, the corona can be seen during a total solar eclipse."

The corona is not relevant to the discussion.

It's talking about the cool outer photosphere, and how odd it is that the corona is so much hotter. The outer photosphere is the dim areas we saw in the images of the sun. Directly relevant.

The core and corona of the sun is so much hotter. Why?
Tom, if the outer photosphere is the dim area in question, then why is the unseen corona relevant?
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: How do sunsets work?
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2018, 02:51:52 AM »
The corona can be seen every day with a coronagraph. It can be seen as easily as using a solar filter. You have not explained why the photosphere is so very different than the corona and the core of the sun.

Comments such as:

"irrelvant"

"Doesn't matter"

"It's just cold, okay?"

... are all admissions that science cannot explain it's own theory. I expect you to keep this in mind the next time you try to assert some sort of superiority. Keep in mind that you can't explain your own theory.