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Offline Rushy

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Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2014, 08:27:51 PM »
All right. Suppose I wanted to get some sort of entry-level miner rig. Where do I look?

Depends, do you want to mine Bitcoin? Because at this point there is no such thing as an entry level miner that makes money. I would suggest mining Litecoin or another Scrypt currency and trading it for Bitcoin. To mine litecoin all you need is an enthusiast grade graphics card, i.e. the ones that cost $300 or more.

If you're dead set on mining Bitcoin you can try buying old 65nm tech on e-bay. Probably not going to make any money at it, though. Not many people sell their miners if they are still making money.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xgh%2Fs&_nkw=gh%2Fs&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Use this to calculate how much money you think you'll make.

http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 08:31:40 PM by Irushwithscvs »

Thork

Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2014, 08:31:08 PM »
They take pre-orders for miners, mine with them, and then ship them to you when they're no longer profitable. It took a year and a half for people (not paid media outlets) to receive their miners. Anyone who asked about it or complained was instantly banned on their forums. You'll get your miner from them, as soon as it stops making them money. Buying something from Butterfly Labs is like investing in them indefinitely with no returns. They also don't offer refunds.
All right. Suppose I wanted to get some sort of entry-level miner rig. Where do I look?

http://tag.wonderhowto.com/bypass-electric-meter/

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2014, 09:18:19 PM »
I'm not dead set on Bitcoin, no. A major issue for me is that I currently don't have a desktop, so I can either go for one of those magical tiny boxes people seem to be advertising a lot, or build a desktop from scratch. The latter is something I plan to do at some point anyway, but I'd like to make it good, and I keep spending money on silly things like replacing my broken laptop or flying to other continents.

http://tag.wonderhowto.com/bypass-electric-meter/
I share a house with 10 people, and we split the bill evenly.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Thork

Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #83 on: January 25, 2014, 09:32:27 PM »
I share a house with 10 people
Another Polish immigrant nest.  :-\

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #84 on: January 25, 2014, 09:42:11 PM »
I share a house with 10 people, and we split the bill evenly.

If you started mining I doubt those 10 people would enjoy splitting the bill. Depending on how much you pay for electricity, mining can get pretty expensive.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #85 on: January 25, 2014, 10:17:12 PM »
Another Polish immigrant nest.  :-\
>implying I associate with Polish immigrants

If you started mining I doubt those 10 people would enjoy splitting the bill.
Yes, but I also don't know them, so lol. I already run an electric heater because I couldn't get them to agree on a sensible central heating policy, which obviously collectively costs us more than heating the entire house.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 11:00:53 PM by pizaaplanet »
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Offline jroa

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Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #86 on: January 25, 2014, 11:11:38 PM »
Another Polish immigrant nest.  :-\
>implying I associate with Polish immigrants
No, implying that you are a Polish immigrant living in an immigrant nest. 

Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #87 on: January 25, 2014, 11:15:35 PM »
Mining a bitcoin isn't as simple as "pay this, receive this." There is no amazon.com selling bitcoin miners with free 2-day shipping. Good luck trying to buy one, much less having it to your doorstep and mining with it. A lot of sites claiming "cloud hashing" are just money grabs.

No. It's as simple as download this. Run this. What the fuck are you babbling on about?

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #88 on: January 26, 2014, 12:48:17 AM »
No. It's as simple as download this. Run this. What the fuck are you babbling on about?

Uhh, okay. Download away.

Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #89 on: January 26, 2014, 05:32:04 AM »
So then how much would it cost currently? It can't be more than an order of magnitude off.

You mean the equipment or the electricity? At 1.5 W/Gh/s it costs roughly $16M to churn out $4.4M in Bitcoin. The equipment itself varies, based on the tech (65nm vs 20nm) and availability (preorder vs shipping).

The argument itself that bitcoin is worth what it costs to mine it is silly. Bitcoin is worth what people will pay for it.

From what you just said, it looks like people are willing to pay about 4x more than what bitcoins are currently worth. That doesn't make sense.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #90 on: January 26, 2014, 01:05:02 PM »
So then how much would it cost currently? It can't be more than an order of magnitude off.

You mean the equipment or the electricity? At 1.5 W/Gh/s it costs roughly $16M to churn out $4.4M in Bitcoin. The equipment itself varies, based on the tech (65nm vs 20nm) and availability (preorder vs shipping).

The argument itself that bitcoin is worth what it costs to mine it is silly. Bitcoin is worth what people will pay for it.

From what you just said, it looks like people are willing to pay about 4x more than what bitcoins are currently worth. That doesn't make sense.
It does if you believe they'll be worth 5x the current price some day.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #91 on: January 26, 2014, 03:42:55 PM »
From what you just said, it looks like people are willing to pay about 4x more than what bitcoins are currently worth. That doesn't make sense.

Do you think gold or diamond is worth what it takes to pull them out of the ground? Because that's the argument you're making here. A common person can only buy gold, they can't mine it, because they don't own any gold mines. Same goes for bitcoins. You can't mine it if you don't own any miners.


Thork

Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #92 on: January 26, 2014, 04:41:06 PM »
A common person
You've become a bit of a snob now that you have a few bitcoins on your harddrive. Virtual money changes people. >:(

Offline spank86

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Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #93 on: January 26, 2014, 04:42:36 PM »
From what you just said, it looks like people are willing to pay about 4x more than what bitcoins are currently worth. That doesn't make sense.

Do you think gold or diamond is worth what it takes to pull them out of the ground?
I'd say worth more as a general rule.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #94 on: January 26, 2014, 05:26:31 PM »
You've become a bit of a snob now that you have a few bitcoins on your harddrive. Virtual money changes people. >:(

It's digital money. And yes, you are a poor peasant.  >:(

I'd say worth more as a general rule.

Well, Enigma seems to think something is only worth the resources it requires to obtain it.

Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #95 on: January 26, 2014, 08:41:09 PM »
No but it certainly gives a base for its value.

I'm selling biscuits with a picture of Joss Stone on them in icing sugar. Buy now because in 2 years they will be worth $7000.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #96 on: January 26, 2014, 09:01:21 PM »
You've become a bit of a snob now that you have a few bitcoins on your harddrive. Virtual money changes people. >:(

It's digital money. And yes, you are a poor peasant.  >:(

I'd say worth more as a general rule.

Well, Enigma seems to think something is only worth the resources it requires to obtain it.

Enigma is right in that if the value of a bitcoin never rises above the cost to mine/bitcoin, there is value constantly being taken out of the system. Is there economies of scale to be had in mining?

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #97 on: January 26, 2014, 09:10:24 PM »
Enigma is right in that if the value of a bitcoin never rises above the cost to mine/bitcoin, there is value constantly being taken out of the system. Is there economies of scale to be had in mining?

Mining is ultimately limited by computer technology. The most efficient miner available for pre-order is 20nm tech and the most efficient miner released is 28nm tech. You're also limited by how much that tech costs. For example Intel is spending billions on their new 14nm foundries, and there are very few foundries that produce 20nm semiconductors, so you have to deal with the fact that even though better tech is more efficient, it has an exponential cost up front.

I don't think Bitcoin will see miners smaller than 20nm for at least a year, maybe two. Honestly none of this even matters, Bitcoin's price isn't driven by mining. Mining is a lagging indicator, not a leading one. More people mine bitcoins because they're worth more, they're not worth more because more people mine.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #98 on: January 26, 2014, 09:33:25 PM »
I don't think Bitcoin will see miners smaller than 20nm for at least a year, maybe two. Honestly none of this even matters, Bitcoin's price isn't driven by mining. Mining is a lagging indicator, not a leading one. More people mine bitcoins because they're worth more, they're not worth more because more people mine.

I get that but if it costs >1 bitcoin to mine 1 bitcoin then the currency is doomed to failure.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Coinye, a Bitcoin spin-off, is being sued by Kanye West
« Reply #99 on: January 26, 2014, 09:35:29 PM »
I get that but if it costs >1 bitcoin to mine 1 bitcoin then the currency is doomed to failure.

And?