Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #220 on: June 01, 2014, 04:14:02 AM »
I got that @ shul. I shall research the matter myself in the morning. If I don't get off the Internet, the gf is going to make me dogmeat. But I shall verify the Rabbi's statement myself.

Rama Set

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #221 on: June 01, 2014, 05:53:27 AM »
I got that @ shul. I shall research the matter myself in the morning. If I don't get off the Internet, the gf is going to make me dogmeat. But I shall verify the Rabbi's statement myself.

Please also provide the technical drawings of the ark of the covenant.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #222 on: June 01, 2014, 06:19:13 AM »
In the early 1960's, at MIT, there was a professor and his class that tried to build a replica of the Ark of the Covenant. They ended up having to destroy their creation. Why? Because the thing started to conduct electricity and was very nearly exploded. Had it actually done so, it is estimated that it would have taken out a whole city block. What did Moses have that this professor did not? The blessing of God, and the fact that God sat on the Mercy Seat of the Ark and spoke to the Children of Israel. The Ark was no different. It is the use of the Ark that made the difference. The first Ark HAD a use that was blessed and sanctified by God. The replica did not. It is that simple.
I'm mildly curious about this one.  I have incredible doubt this actually happened and a cursory google search has lead to zilch.  Do you have a source for this claim?

Google gave me information, but I wouldn't call it credible. I arrived at countless conspiracy and extremist websites. I found no evidence as far as MIT is concerned. Since MIT doesn't do jack without writing large obnoxious papers about it, I'm going to have to say this is the stuff of rumors.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 06:20:48 AM by Irushwithscvs »

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Offline beardo

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Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #223 on: June 01, 2014, 07:21:22 AM »
Divinity kills, people.
The Mastery.

Eddy Baby

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #224 on: June 01, 2014, 12:20:20 PM »
I read that it could have been a giant Leyden jar.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #225 on: June 01, 2014, 12:32:07 PM »
Yes, I arrived @ plenty too, but not @ MIT. The event supposedly took place in Minnesota. My bad. Now I think abot about it, the Rabbi said Minnesota, nmt MIT. Again, my bad. I shall try to track more abcnt this down. Meantime, if you want the dimensions of the Ark, you'll find them in the Book of Exodus. Remember that a cubit was standardardised in size as being 18 inches in length.

Rama Set

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #226 on: June 01, 2014, 01:10:45 PM »
Yes, I arrived @ plenty too, but not @ MIT. The event supposedly took place in Minnesota. My bad. Now I think abot about it, the Rabbi said Minnesota, nmt MIT. Again, my bad. I shall try to track more abcnt this down. Meantime, if you want the dimensions of the Ark, you'll find them in the Book of Exodus. Remember that a cubit was standardardised in size as being 18 inches in length.

I am more interested in what could possibly cause electricity to emanate from it.

Eddy Baby

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #227 on: June 01, 2014, 02:07:21 PM »
I read that it could have been a giant Leyden jar.

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #228 on: June 01, 2014, 03:10:14 PM »
Yes, I arrived @ plenty too, but not @ MIT. The event supposedly took place in Minnesota. My bad. Now I think abot about it, the Rabbi said Minnesota, nmt MIT. Again, my bad. I shall try to track more abcnt this down. Meantime, if you want the dimensions of the Ark, you'll find them in the Book of Exodus. Remember that a cubit was standardardised in size as being 18 inches in length.
I like how suddenly you remember he said Minnesota instead of MIT, because those sound very similar right?  I haven't found a single story about a replica Ark being built which nearly exploded.

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #229 on: June 01, 2014, 03:21:15 PM »
Maybe there was a cover up?

Why would a replica ark have any holy powers anyway? I thought it was the tablets with the ten commandments that were important, not the box to carry them about.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #230 on: June 01, 2014, 05:40:43 PM »
The event took place in 1961. Someone else had mentioned MIT, and the Rabbi corrected them and said Minnesota. What could cause it to conduct electricity? Well, there is a shit-ton of gold on that thing. Gold is, out of all the natural elements, the best conductor of electricity  known to us. There are better, but they have to be made by man by blending two or more elements (one of them usually being gold), or by creating elements in a laboratory.

Last night I was restricted to my phone in trying to gather information about the event in 1961. Today I have the power of my laptop. Let me see what I can find. I'll be back.

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Offline spoon

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Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #231 on: June 01, 2014, 06:09:07 PM »
inb4 Blanko spoons a literally pizza

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #232 on: June 01, 2014, 07:07:52 PM »
Well, I haven't been able to find much. I shall speak to my Rabbi and get more information from him, and then get back to all of you.

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #233 on: June 01, 2014, 07:37:11 PM »
You're Rabbi must be a fan of one of your favorite people, Erich von Daniken.  He made this claim about university students in Minnesota in "Chariots of the Gods".  From http://ed5015.tripod.com/PavonDaniken13.htm
Quote
The film "Chariots of the Gods" went one step further. It showed a replica of the Ark, made by "a group of Minnesota college students," which produced a dangerous electrical charge.

Dr. Peter White, a lecturer in anthropology at Sydney University who is writing an anti-Daniken book titled "The Man-Made past," took the trouble to ask about this project at the University of Minnesota. The archivist at the university library made extensive enquiries, but was unable to locate an Ark of the Covenant project.

When I asked Mr. von Daniken about it, he said: "It was some high school in Michigan."
So there you have it.  It's unlikely anyone in MIT or Minnesota actually reconstructed the Ark and had to abandon or destroy it due to it nearly exploding.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #234 on: June 01, 2014, 08:36:12 PM »
The event took place in 1961. Someone else had mentioned MIT, and the Rabbi corrected them and said Minnesota. What could cause it to conduct electricity? Well, there is a shit-ton of gold on that thing. Gold is, out of all the natural elements, the best conductor of electricity  known to us. There are better, but they have to be made by man by blending two or more elements (one of them usually being gold), or by creating elements in a laboratory.

Last night I was restricted to my phone in trying to gather information about the event in 1961. Today I have the power of my laptop. Let me see what I can find. I'll be back.

You need more than an electrical conductor to create current. Simply making an object out of gold will not turn it into a huge battery, otherwise gold rings would be deadly.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #235 on: June 01, 2014, 08:46:25 PM »
I noticed that reference also. I can assure you that my Rabbi is no admirer of von Daniken, and neither am I, given what I have read of his stuff. I shall cheerfully withdraw the point. After having done the research, I have been able to find no corroborating evidence for the claim that students and their professor built a replica of the Ark. That point having been conceded, let us move on.

What was the purpose of the Ark of the Covenant? It was essentially a large box designed to hold the X Commandments, Aaron's rod that budded, and a few other things as as well. It was also a large super-conductor, shittim wood plated inside and out with purest gold. The spirit of God spoke to the Israelites from the Mercy Seat that was between the Cherubim on the cover ofArk. When one of the Priests attempted to touch the Ark to steady it, he was promptly killed by the power of God exerting itself through the Ark.

Why do I think that God all to often, allowed his power to be displayed in destructive ways? I suspect it was because humans of the time would have understood little else. To strike the fear of God into them, that was what was needed. Also, a national god dedicated to the House of Israel was also needed as well. You will find that if you get to the later parts of the "Old Testament" you will notice that the later prophets begin to speak of God as a universal God who speaks to all, answers all prayers, and gives to all men liberally, Jew or Gentile.

Of course, this is speculation. The Ark is not around. We don't know exactly how it worked.But, based on the Biblical text, we can develop a fair amount of information. So, there you are.

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #236 on: June 01, 2014, 08:53:46 PM »
As far as God being a nice guy and saying, "Hi, there. I was having a nap. Come back in five," or some other inanely stupid remark, or being a happy and cheerful God who would never kill anyone for looking at him, I don't think it works like that.

Careful now Yaakov. You're implying that there exists a power beyond gods control. In some parts of the world that earns you execution for blasphemy.

Alternatively you can recognise that the being you believe in is all-powerful and all-knowing and chooses (in this thought experiment) to wilfully kill those who see his face.

Pick one.

[Can a mod please fork the bullshit story about the Arc Of The Covenant please?]

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #237 on: June 01, 2014, 09:14:27 PM »
If you read all my posts, I suggested nothing of the sort.

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #238 on: June 01, 2014, 09:20:18 PM »
Yes you do.

It is not God who kills you.

But you end up dead anyway. If God didn't kill you then something else killed you.

So either God isn't all powerful or he's isn't benign.

One of your core assumptions about a divine being is wrong. Pick one.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 09:22:09 PM by fappenhosen »

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #239 on: June 01, 2014, 09:21:15 PM »
Do you think the Ark still exists somewhere? If nobody could touch it without dying then I imagine it would be difficult to destroy.