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1
Flat Earth Theory / Re: I Would Love To Have A Nice Open Discussion
« on: March 05, 2021, 07:09:05 PM »
I have a very open view about this and wish to graduate in engineering. I read your rules and I didn't see anything about discussing peacefully the validity of the flat earth model.
Furthermore, I believe there are no winners in a discussion, so there's no promise I'll change my mind. Also, I'll pass the ball to a flat earth specialist first, he'll give an opening statement about the validity of his argument, and then I'll follow up with one of my own. I hope there'll be no aggressiveness as the moderators say in the rules of this very forum.

Actually the way it works is that you make your opening statement first. But before you do so, with whatever you want to include, make sure you search the wiki and search posts first for the points you are making. Odds are a lot has been addressed already. And then if you do have something novel or are looking for a deeper understanding than what you found or found something glaring that you feel hasn't been adequately addressed, start with those.

2
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Simple Experiments
« on: March 03, 2021, 05:36:31 PM »
I got a nice clear night recently so I took another, much longer exposure. This one was taken with a bigger zoom than my first attempt, to give examples of two lenses and give a nice full-field without any obstructions.

This was over a period of 9 hours so the star trails have enough length to clearly show that they are indeed circles and not ovals or any other shape.  The bright one near the center is Polaris of course.

One interesting thing to point out is with the stars expanded into lines, you can very clearly see the color of each star.  I was tempted to increase the saturation to bring out the colors more, but I didn't want to do any post processing to the image, so this is what I got out of the camera. Even so, the colors are there. Red dwarfs, blue giants, yellow and white suns like our own.



Jesus, that was in-camera? Beautiful. Which lens did you use this time?

3
Flat Earth Community / Re: Fly You To The Moon
« on: March 03, 2021, 05:34:36 PM »
...And my excitement is crushed. Being stuck in a tin can with potentially a few jerks for 8 days? Dont know if I can justify that anymore...

I think you would welcome death if one of the other passengers was Thork. 8 days of listening to him rant about his Jack Russell challenge, you'd be reaching for the hatch lever.

4
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: How to explain?
« on: March 02, 2021, 07:09:39 PM »
Hello!
I was browsing on YouTube today and found this video:
In the video, a weather balloon was sent to 100K feet and we can clearly see some curvatures on the shape of Earth.

The video is a full uncropped 4 hours video from launch to landing.
I'm wondering what could explain this phenomenon?

Thanks.

GoPros come stock with a fish-eye lens that creates curved distortions in various parts of the frame. As the horizon line moves around the frame you can see the curve change to almost flat:





Find a similar vid without a fish-eye lens and have a look at that.

5
Flat Earth Community / Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« on: March 02, 2021, 04:14:01 PM »
If chuck balances a pizza on his finger, and then has it rotate once every 24 hours, that's really slow.  It looks stationary.

Sure.

Now, if he's up to it, he can also twist his wrist ever so slightly and try to move the pizza in a circular way so it wobbles (not spins). 

Ok, I guess. I still don't know exactly what you mean. Do you have a diagram? Your words aren't making sense. Does the "Chuck Norris wobble" make the seasons?

And I still don't see how you can explain not having all four season in a 24 hour period. Can you succinctly explain that?

6
Flat Earth Community / Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« on: March 02, 2021, 01:58:36 PM »
Quote
Your 24 hour rotation would rotate all parts of the earth closer and further from the sun giving everyone 4 seasons in 24 hours. Get it?

Stack I see your point, but it's not really true.  You can spin a Frisbee on your finger once every 24 hours and also have it slowly rotate over 1 year without it shaking - If your Chuck Norris.

Maybe I'm not as clear as I thought on your concept. The earth spins every 24 hours like a frisbee on your finger. What's the slow rotation over a year? How does a frisbee both spin and rotate if they are not the same thing? I don't get what you're saying.

You mentioned the theory is new, from 4 years ago here. Where here? Can you point to some 4 year old posts about it?

7
Flat Earth Community / Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« on: March 02, 2021, 01:45:02 AM »
The Earth is like a Frisbee flying through space.  It tilts, spins, and wobbles.  Think of a gyroscope and its gentle rotation.  If it rotates once a year then you seasons remain intact.

I got the concept, but you didn't answer any of the questions. Chief among them, how do you not have all 4 seasons everyday everywhere on earth? Rotation causes your day/night cycle, your tilt/wobble, whatever it is, causes your seasons. Your 24 hour rotation would rotate all parts of the earth closer and further from the sun giving everyone 4 seasons in 24 hours. Get it?

8
Flat Earth Community / Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« on: March 02, 2021, 12:37:03 AM »
Lol, I had a few threads about this, but in short, it tilts towards the sun so it's centered above the equator.  It then wobbles slowly back and forth every year to give you change of seasons.  It also spins once every 24 hours but nobody likes that idea, lol.

Ok, well good luck with all that. From what I've seen across the wider than just here FE community, putting the earth in any sort of motion is lunacy. And if you even mentioned to those folks that it "rotates", my goodness, they would come after you with pitchforks and torches. Hyperbole, of course, but yeah, they don't take too kindly to an in motion earth of any kind.

What causes it to wobble and spin? How often does it wobble?

And you have a problem with your "idea". If it wobbles (tilts) periodically and spins every 24 hours, everyone on the planet would experience all four season everyday. That would be something, wouldn't it? Snow in the wee hours, flowers bloom in the morning, Summer heat in the afternoon, leaves tuning brown in the evening.

9
Flat Earth Community / Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« on: March 01, 2021, 10:36:57 PM »
Stack, its not an original idea.  In the RE model the sun is perpendicular to the equator, but the earth tilts forward and back during the year.   That's what I'm saying.  Except in a flat earth, you can tilt the earth towards the sun so it hovers above the same area and then tilt it again with the changing seasons.

Woah, wait a minute, I somehow missed that. The flat earth tilts? In what manner, as in what is the tilting orientation? How often does it happen? How much does it tilt? What causes it to tilt? How does it know when to tilt?

10
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Antarctica Sun
« on: March 01, 2021, 09:39:10 PM »
How does the Flat Earth theory explain the 24 hour sun over Antarctica during summer? Antarctica is distorted to form a ring around the Flat Earth. Does EA somehow explain this or do FEers just deny This phenomenon just like they deny photos of the Earth?

Some do claim/conclude that, yes.

It is not a place many people go, and inconsistencies in video analysis performed on the supposed footage of the phenomenon that exist are cause for concern/doubt.

What inconsistencies are you referring to? Evidence? Or are you just making that up?

11
Flat Earth Community / Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« on: March 01, 2021, 09:36:17 PM »

Thanks Stack..  I appreciate your input on the matter.

I arrived at this picture by plotting the location of the satellites as shown by attached picture.  The satellite goes through north America, under south Africa and Australia then returns for another loop a bit farther away.

If the satellite was way left of the map, you have a fair point about outages.  I'd have to reference my version of things and how I feel the sun is actually centered over Antarctica and the earth tilts towards the sun near the equator, so essentially, if your looking down, all sides of the earth should be underneath the circular path of satellites.  This assumes satellites gain altitude at night, but that's another topic.

Geostationary satellites would just have to rotate the same rate as earth.  About 3 is enough to cover all the landmass.

Again, im not super positive how satellites stay in orbit or what propels them.  It may be similar to planetary orbits.

The 35k altitude just shows up when you Google it.

Here again we run headlong right into reality. You having a notion that the sun is centered over Antartica doesn't even come close to what is observed reality by billions of people every day for, well for forever, regardless of the shape of the earth or maps or whatever. So what is compelling you to say that when you can literally go outside yourself and look up and see where the sun is?

As well, there are 402 geosynchronous satellites, not just 3. You can track them if you want.

Are these just all thought experiments? Sort of "what ifs" just for fun?

12
Flat Earth Community / Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« on: March 01, 2021, 08:20:20 PM »
Stack, good questions.  Satellites range from 2,000km to 40,000km above earth.  70k km is the record.  They travel more quickly closer to earth (about 90 min orbits) and go up to 24 hour orbits around 35k km which is the Geo-Stationary satellites you talked about.

On a flat earth, I imagine it looks something like this.
 

Satellites seem to orbit around the sun on a FE Map.  See the official NASA photos of satellite orbits and the Altitude versus speed graph of satellites.

What propels a satellite to circle so fast in Low Earth Orbit is beyond me right now.  Any ideas?

How did you arrive at satellites orbit the sun on a flat earth? On your graphic, for where the sun is at that moment, does all of Europe and Asia loose satellite coverage? Especially during their rotation when they are way over on the left side. That would mean massive outages occur all over the disc all the time for different huge regions. That doesn't happen. Again, reality check.

As well, you'r not addressing geostationary satellites. On a flat earth, they would just sit there, hover, over one location. How might that "hovering" be achieved?

What's this 35k you're talking about and where did it come from?

(And hey, congrats, you learned how to post images properly. Well done.)


13
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why is there no standard map of the earth?
« on: March 01, 2021, 08:10:23 PM »
Is no one interested in the idea that the earth could be much larger than we have ever dreamed or been told?

Based upon what you've posted, I would say, no, not interested in your "idea". The, "hey, I've got an idea, earth is bigger than we think it is," is not even remotely compelling. Try and gussy up your notion with some evidence or just even something that actually means something.

14
Flat Earth Community / Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« on: March 01, 2021, 06:59:57 PM »
Its my understanding that the earth spins and churns the atmosphere above it and satellites rotate in this stream.   Occasionally they will fire up there engines so as not fall back into the thick atmosphere.

What part of the atmosphere are satellites in? And what about geostationary ones versus non?

15
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« on: February 28, 2021, 03:55:51 AM »
This is fine


Fine is right. 3 electoral votes? Whatevs. Maybe they should vote to not even participate in presidential elections.

16
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: An Idea for the flat earth cover-up
« on: February 28, 2021, 03:34:40 AM »
Stack, - Attached is a photo of global flight paths and the surrounding temperatures.  I highlighted the routes northern and southern planes fly in-between.

I understand that flights take 10+ hours between the southern continents the same as the northern continents.  Same distance then? But there is a difference in temperature conditions which need to be considered.

Why does it need to be considered?

All of the flights down south fly in warmer temperatures on average then the northern flights.

How much so? What are the average temperatures at 40,000 feet in each hemisphere? And where in each hemisphere?

This can explain why planes take the same time to travel different distances.  Cold air makes planes really fast and warm air slow.

No it doesn't. Colder air makes engines more efficient meaning more thrust and makes for take-offs and landings being shorter. It doesn't make planes fly faster. Where are you getting this information from?

That's why planes go out of there way to fly way north and way south (if possible) to take advantage of colder weather as shown in the attached image.

Where are you getting the information from that planes "fly way north and way south (if possible) to take advantage of colder weather"?

Some say the round flight paths are because the earth is curved and it's a more direct route, but I think it's the weather.

Well you thinking that is fine. But it's not the documented reason why. And by documented, I mean by the worldwide Airline industry as a whole with data, observations, and tons and tons of real world practical experience and evidence accumulated over decades. Not just one person thinking something.

It's a good explanation I think.

It's not, because all evidence points to a contrary explanation(s).

For distance sake, I'd say keep the ocean distances the same in the Northern Hemisphere where it's been travelled a lot but consider at least a difference down south where weather plays a factor.

The southern hemisphere has been traveled a lot as well. The southern hemisphere is not some "mystery" like it was to Europeans 100's of years ago. I c'mon, It's 2021, not the 1300's.

Your musings are interesting and entertaining. But you need evidence and facts to back them up. And you're trying to ram unfounded explanations into your model just to try and make your model work. When you should be looking at the evidence and facts and adjusting your model accordingly. And as such, you need to reconcile why your distances are way off and examine the cold hard facts as to why that may be rather than making up things like your misconceptions about temperature and its impact on flights. Maybe your map just isn't quite right.

17
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why is there no standard map of the earth?
« on: February 28, 2021, 03:00:07 AM »
How many millions of intercontinental flights based on RET would it take to convince you?
You need to learn how flights work. Airliners use filed flight plans and radar communication with air traffic control. The filed flight plans are based off of years of historic data collection. Nothing here proves the shape of the earth.

I don't know about "proving" the shape of the earth, but flight systems and navigational protocols rely on Globe earth calculations, maps, and geodesy. For example, see this from the FAA:

Maximum Course Length between Required Navigation Performance (RNP) Waypoints
It is the purpose of this analysis to determine a maximum distance between RNP waypoints, which ensure that overall risk to navigation remains at or below an acceptable level...
Manufacturers of FMS systems were contacted regarding the computational course solution used in their FMS systems, including satellite navigation. Each indicated that the computations used in each of their respective systems are based upon great circles of the volumetric sphere. The paper cited in the references from Smiths Industries also examines the differences between spherical great circle and geodesic WGS-84 ellipsoid solutions. The results shown are consistent with the analysis contained herein...
Similarly, for routes with designed primary widths of 8 NM constructed using Lambert projections and flown with either great circle or WGS-84 geodetic computations, it is recommended that maximum route length between waypoints be set at 100 NM.
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http://www.tc.faa.gov/its/worldpac/techrpt/afs420-92.pdf

I'm sure you're aware what Great Circles are and how they conform to a spherical earth. As well, I'm sure you're familiar with the WGS-84 ellipsoid model. Well, that's what Airliners use.

Here's what Lambert Conformal flight chart looks like:



It, like many others, is a projection from a globe. Here's how a Lambert conical projection is rendered:



In short, Airliners correctly or incorrectly rely on a spherical earth for all things navigation all the way down to calculating required fuel amounts for a given leg. So I'm not sure where you are getting your information from that they don't. But if you have a source, feel free to present it.


18
Flat Earth Theory / Re: New model of the Universe.
« on: February 27, 2021, 09:26:13 PM »
"With a diameter of Mars 6,700 km., and the diameter of the Jezero crater 50 km., the Sun should illuminate the entire crater completely and evenly."

Why is that? What's your calculation for claiming that?
Animation source title (from YouTube):
Artist’s impression of Mars four billion years ago


Your calculation is a gif animation of a rotating earth? How does that work?

19
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Real Scientific Experiment
« on: February 27, 2021, 09:24:27 PM »

Quote
Why are Flat Earthers not joining effort to map out the surface of the Earth?

Because mapping is NOT the same as measuring! 

I don't know where you get your information from, but it would be nice if you provided a source, rather than you just saying so. Mappng is mapping. Measuring things goes into mapping. If you have an issue with that, go talk to some surveyors, NOAA, and all other geodesy orgs/individuals. They measure stuff, a lot of stuff, and make maps of that measured stuff. Pretty simple really.

What is geodesy?
Geodesy is the science of accurately measuring and understanding the Earth's geometric shape, orientation in space, and gravity field.

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/geodesy.html

One day, the maps will become a priority to fix / reconcile with reality.  However, we don't fix things unless they are broken.  If the map is useful (or we believe it is), then we keep using it. The shape of the world doesn't enter into it. 

Actually, you are incorrect. The shape of the earth definitely enters into it. Take google, bing, yahoo, whomever maps for example. As has been shown to you numerous times, they use globe projections/distances in their depictions, routing, distances, navigation, etc. The "useful" maps you are using are actually based upon a globe earth. So yeah, they don't seem to be broken so I agree, keep using them.

20
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: An Idea for the flat earth cover-up
« on: February 27, 2021, 09:09:31 PM »
Okay, I have the answer.  Temperature.  In the southern hemisphere planes flying between Africa, Australia, South America etc... Are all flying in warm weather.  Warmer at least then in Northern flight routes of comparable distance. 

This makes the planes fly less efficiently which explains the long flight times.  Planes always prefer to travel in colder temperatures if possible like they do in the Northern Hemisphere.

See the attached two pictures of flight paths and jet streams.

The path from Australia to South America going near Antarctica is still leaving and traveling to hot locations and proximity to Antarctica would only be a small part of the trip if distances were close to half like I'm suggesting.

Umm, it doesn't get cold in the Southern Hemisphere? It doesn't get warm in the Northern Hemisphere? Hey, it even snowed in Santiago, Chile a few years back. Your "temperature theory" literally makes zero sense. Again, apply your distance inaccuracies on your map to reality. You're grasping at straws at the moment. It might just be that your map is simply not correct.

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