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Messages - honk

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1
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: August 30, 2025, 03:46:25 AM »
If you aren't interested in discussing anything with anyone, all you have do is not post in the thread. You don't need to waste everyone's time by announcing how much you don't care.

i do care, that is the problem. the only thing a lot of people here care about is yelling at the clouds to prove they are on the """right side""" atop their high horse. but i will post when i feel like it. deal with it, peanut. having said that, and knowing the little i know about you after having met in person nearly a decade ago, there are things about you i respect too. if you want me to take actual interest in anything you post i will do that earnestly if you do something for me, let's call it a challenge. i want you to pick a random film that you haven't seen or read other's opinions about. watch it. then, post an initial reaction in the media thread of your first thoughts that can't be swayed because you didn't have any bias going into it. then, still don't read anything about it, but take time to process and write a wall of text review entirely in your own words and opinion. you might get clowned on, but those are the opinions i am interested in and respect. and i promise i will respond in the same manner whether i agree or not. hopefully you see where i am going with this. if not, that is okay too.


EDIT — everyone i disagree with or they disagree with me is getting TRUMP 2028 hats.

EDIT #2 — i have been advised that there will no longer be elections by 2028 so i am going to start with TRUMP 2029 and release a new edition every year. thank you for your attention to this matter.

Again, none of this is relevant. As you've said, you can post what you like, sure, but coming into a thread where a particular subject is being discussed and responding to a particular point I've raised by, uh, complaining about how I review movies is really just a weird thing to do.

Does anyone here truly believe Epstein kept a clean little notebook of his clients?

November 12, 1994: Donald Trump raped Jane Doe (age 9)
November 13, 1994: Hillary and Bill Clinton also raped Jane Doe
November 14, 1994: Ahmed Muhammad raped Jane Doe
November 15, 1994: Joe Biden raped Jane Doe
November 16, 1994: Mike Bloomberg raped Jane Doe

Is this what people would actually want? Even if such 'evidence' were released, would anyone believe it? Or would each side simply ignore the "my glorious rebels" and hyper-focus on "their evil regime"?

Trump used the Epstein list as a talking point, in much the same way he said 'build the wall' and then didn't do that.

Right, there's no way that there's going to be an unambiguous smoking gun that the government just happened to have been sitting on all this time. That's conspiracist thinking from the same people whom Trump catered to by playing up the Epstein files and then disappointed by backing off, which is exactly why the backlash over this is largely coming from the MAGA crowd, contrary to juner's claim that this is all some DNC plot.

As for the story with Muriel Bowser, while it's important to stress that she does not "represent" me or my beliefs and I'm under no obligation to defend her or take responsibility for her, I think it's far more likely that she's trying to conciliate Trump by telling him what he wants to hear so that he'll end the occupation sooner rather than later. She's been dealing with Trump since his first term, remember, and it's plausible that by now she's figured that she'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Is this necessarily the ethical move on her part? Is there more merit in verbally opposing Trump even if it accomplishes nothing than in kissing his ass and possibly lessening the harm of what he's doing? I don't know, but it's a viable strategy, and I believe that's what she's doing. Trump makes his decisions based on vibes and gut instincts rather than actual policy positions or empirical evidence, and he's very susceptible to flattery and appeals to his ego. The people who deal with him are going to take advantage of that.

2
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: August 28, 2025, 03:10:16 PM »
If you aren't interested in discussing anything with anyone, all you have do is not post in the thread. You don't need to waste everyone's time by announcing how much you don't care.

I fail to see how Trump telling Bondi to release everything is setting her up for failure.

That in and of itself isn't the problem. It's how Trump insisted "I don’t know anything about that" and put the entire responsibility on Bondi's shoulders, as if he's not the president. A good leader takes responsibility for the people they're in charge of and stands behind them. Trump, however, is getting ready to dump the whole thing on Bondi and blame her entirely if it turns into a scandal. He did this kind of thing multiple times in his first term, and he'd do it again if he thought it was to his advantage.

3
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: August 28, 2025, 01:30:12 AM »
I don't know anything about the Epstein case. It's Bondi's responsibility, not mine.

if you didn't care about the truth coming when biden was president, don't try to pretend to care now. the internet is flooded with this most recent talking point from whatever DNC think tank. crazy how there weren't thousands of daily posts about releasing the files until just recently. it is disingenuous and absolute scumbag behavior.

This is not a relevant response to my post. I'm not clamoring for Trump to release the Epstein files; I'm criticizing him for once again positioning one of his subordinates to take the blame for a negative story instead of taking responsibility for his own administration. And like Van Nostrand said, people are only demanding that the Epstein files be released because Trump turned it into a political issue and promised his conspiracy-addled base too much. For myself, I don't need any files to be released to confirm what I already know, along with anyone else who has eyes and a working brain - Trump and Epstein were close friends for many years, partied together all the time, and their social lives weren't kept secret from each other. I don't know if Trump himself was partaking of the teenage girls that Epstein surrounded himself with, and that kind of information isn't likely to be in any government files, but he must have known about Epstein's preference for the underaged. It's not feasible that he didn't know anything and everything that happened with Epstein was all a big surprise to him. No, he knew about it, and not only did he never tell anyone or try to stop him, he continued to hang out and party with him the whole time. That makes Trump almost as much of a creep as Epstein in my book, and ethically (if not necessarily legally) complicit in his crimes. If the release-the-Epstein-files movement will help Trump's base realize what kind of person he is and turn on him, then I'll support it for pragmatic reasons, but it never should have had to come to that. We've known about Trump and Epstein for many years.

4
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: August 24, 2025, 04:11:11 AM »
It's not like she can just call a press conference in a few weeks' time accusing Trump of being involved in Epstein's crimes if she doesn't get a pardon. Theoretically, she could put out a statement via her lawyer...but I don't know, I really don't think a lawyer is going to want to do that for her, not with all the law firms that have been publicly capitulating and bending the knee to Trump lately. I think this is it, honestly. She's made her play, and it's to give Trump what he wants and fall on his mercy. Trump does have a history of abusing his pardon power to reward his cronies. He also has a history of betraying people who trusted him, so it could go either way.

5
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: August 23, 2025, 04:18:23 AM »
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/08/22/ghislaine-maxwell-jeffrey-epstein-donald-trump-interview-00520352

If you believe this, you are a moron. Maxwell has already been given a carrot in the form of a sudden transfer to a cushy Club Fed, and she's clearly angling for a pardon for Trump. Of course she's going to say that Trump is entirely innocent. Also, on a related subject:

https://www.pennlive.com/nation-world/2025/08/donald-trump-says-people-are-named-in-epstein-files-who-dont-deserve-to-be-its-a-democratic-hoax.html

While the story is ridiculous, as is everything Trump says in it, the most interesting part of it to me is this:

Quote
“You’ve got a lot of people that could be mentioned in those files that don’t deserve to be,” he added. “Because (Epstein) knew everybody in Palm Beach. I don’t know anything about that, but I have said to (Attorney General) Pam (Bondi) and everybody else, give them everything you can give them because it’s a Democrat hoax.”

This is almost subtle, at least for Trump, but he's once again doing something he did repeatedly in his last term - positioning one of his underlings to take the blame for something he's done. I don't know anything about the Epstein case. It's Bondi's responsibility, not mine. Now, I'm not saying that Trump is definitely going to accuse Bondi of either a cover-up or an elaborate hoax and blame the entire Epstein fiasco on her. He might not have to. But he is laying the groundwork for it, meaning that he considers it an option. This tendency of Trump is arguably the most indefensible part of his presidency. Regardless of what your political or social beliefs are, the idea that a leader takes responsibility is a cultural universal, and a leader who refuses to take responsibility and instead blames the people under them is rightly condemned by everyone. And when I say everyone, I really do mean everyone. I have no respect for a leader who acts the way Trump does, and neither do you. Yes, you, hypothetical Trump supporter. You wouldn't respect a football coach who acted this way. You wouldn't respect a store manager who acted this way. You wouldn't respect a mayor or governor who acted this way. Tell me that you think that Trump is being a good leader and an honorable man when he blames his subordinates and insists they shoulder the entire blame whenever the scandals get too heavy to ignore, and I'll call you a liar to your face.

7
Arts & Entertainment / Re: Superhero Movies & Comics General
« on: August 18, 2025, 04:06:11 AM »
spoiler warbling
I too have watched Superman. I think it's...pretty good, yeah. The biggest thing I took away from this movie is that it felt like a very deliberate, very precise rebuttal to Zack Snyder's Superman movies. I don't simply mean that the basic Superman material is covered better insofar as this is a better Superman, a better Lois, a better Lex Luthor, etc., but that some of the specific subjects that Snyder chose to cover in his movies, Gunn also chooses to cover, and handles them all much, much better. The possibility of Superman being widely distrusted. A Superman who gets involved in foreign wars and causes political blowback. A government hoping to rein Superman in being taken advantage of by an opportunistic Lex. What sends an even clearer message than this is Gunn's explicit rejection of Snyder's view of Superman and whatever wacky philosophy he thought drove him. Superman's moral compass in this movie comes from the Kents being good people who encourage him to always follow his heart and do the right thing, rather than the Kents being sacrifice-obsessed weirdos who tell him what to do against his better judgment, and this movie's Superman firmly rejects the image that Snyder and his fans have of him as an untouchable god who floats above us, instead insisting that first and foremost he is one of us. It could not be more clear that Gunn is not a fan of Snyder's take on Superman, and he made a movie that's practically its antithesis.

This is a great Superman. He's extremely likable and charismatic, and while he's certainly not flawless, he's unambiguously a good guy you want to root for. There's also a great Lois, who's funny and likable with a strong personality of her own and vivid chemistry with Superman, and I really like that their relationship is in kind of a rocky place at the start of the movie. Lex is terrific, the first and so far only live-action version of the character to be accurate to the source material, and I again strongly suspect that he was deliberately written to be a point-by-point "this is how you do it" response to Jesse Eisenberg's abysmal Lex from BvS. He's confident and compelling instead of an obnoxious giggling weirdo. He's a believable genius instead of a list of "smart" highbrow references. He's a believable skilled strategist instead of the audience simply being told that he's figured out who Batman and Superman really are offscreen and also has managed to engineer the movie's entire plot. The Snyder connection might honestly be a stretch when it comes to Lex, as any comic-accurate Lex could very easily feel like a pointed rebuttal to Eisenberg's terrible Lex, but I'm inclined to believe it really was on purpose simply because of the other parts of the movie that were definitely deliberate responses to Snyder's movies.

Speaking of controversies about what in the movie is or isn't deliberate, I'm convinced that the war subplot is absolutely a fuck-you to Netanyahu and Israel over what's going on in Gaza currently, and one that I'm honestly very surprised and impressed Gunn managed to include in a mainstream, big-budget Hollywood movie. And yes, I'm aware that he's denied it's based on Israel and Palestine. Of fucking course he has! He has to deny it, because if he admitted it, then his career would be over forever, and no amount of protests from his films' casts would resurrect it this time. Looking at the movie, Boravia, the aggressor country, is a longtime ally of the U.S., which is receiving constant arms shipments and indirect military aid from the U.S. to help them wage their unjust, brutal war on the country of Jarhanpur. Superman's intervention on Jarhanpur's behalf is condemned by the U.S. government, which immediately begins plotting against him, because for whatever reason they're very invested in making sure Boravia conquers Jarhanpur. Oh, and Jarhanpur is a Middle Eastern country. That's not Russia and Ukraine, and it's not just some generic conflict with no real-world parallel. It's clearly Israel and Palestine, and I can only assume that Gunn did a very good job of bluffing the studio executives and telling them what they wanted to hear even while slipping an obvious pro-Palestine message into his movie.

The movie does, however, have some flaws, and I'd say on the whole it's considerably weaker than The Suicide Squad, or to compare to another fairly recent DC reboot, The Batman. The biggest stumbling block for the movie to me is that it feels like it begins in media res and never stops to let the audience catch up. I don't mind skipping the origin story, but you still have to introduce your main character and the conflicts they face organically to the audience. This honestly feels less like just skipping the origin story and more like someone over your shoulder fast-forwarding through a fictitious first forty minutes of the movie, saying, "Nah, you don't need to watch any of this boring shit, let's just get to the good part." I'm sure most people who liked this movie don't agree with me on this, but I'm of the perhaps old-fashioned belief that movies always need proper introductions to their characters and conflicts regardless of how popular the IP they're adapting is, and you can't get away with just shrugging your shoulders and saying it's Superman, so everyone knows the deal already and we can skip some of the steps. It's not true, for one thing, as there are millions of casual filmgoers who enjoy capeshit movies without knowing anything about the properties beyond what they see in the occasional movie, and even if it were, the movie is still a self-contained medium that should stand alone, not stand within a broader context of capeshit movies being an enormous phenomenon that everyone on the planet already knows about. And I'm sure that the rushed opening probably feels less jarring on subsequent watches when you already know where the movie is going and what Gunn is trying to do, but like I said with BvS, movies shouldn't need repeat viewings to have the intended effect.

I've also got to say that I think there's a bit too much humor in this movie. GoTG and TSS made sense as comedies. Superman doesn't. Should it fall on the lighter end of the tonal spectrum, sure. Have some humor, absolutely. But be an outright comedy like all of Gunn's previous capeshit films? No, I don't think that's appropriate. Superman needs to be played a bit more straight and have a bit more grandeur. At least to me. Again, I'm sure a lot of people disagree with me, and I'll admit it's not a huge deal; just a personal preference on my part. I'll at least give Gunn some credit in that he understands that humor comes in many more forms than just quips (unlike his contemporaries in the MCU), and most of his jokes land. One big exception is the whole Jimmy-Eve thing. I don't get it. It's not just that it isn't funny; it's that I don't even understand the joke. Is it that a beautiful woman is into Jimmy, of all people? Is it that he has no interest in her? Is it simply how overbearing she is? Whatever the joke is, it doesn't work for me. Also, as far as the effects go, Metamorpho's powers look awful, his baby is both extremely ugly and very fake-looking, and the proton stream or whatever it was at the end of the second act was CGI slop that turned the movie into a PS3 game for a few minutes.

Here's another thing that I'm sure many, if not most people will disagree with me on - I didn't like Hawkgirl killing Netanyahu in cold blood. Or at least, I don't like how it was framed as a triumphant, heroic "you go girl!" moment. Superman's refusal to kill unless it's absolutely necessary in this movie is a moral principle, not a personal preference like his favorite flavor of ice cream. Superman doesn't kill people who are at his mercy because he's a good person and he recognizes that that's wrong. That is the framing of the movie. It's not objectively correct, necessarily, but it's the movie they chose to make, and they have to stick with that. Hawkgirl killing Netanyahu in a scene framed as triumphant and heroic flies in the face of all that. You cannot say in the same movie that Superman doesn't kill the defenseless because he's a good person and that Hawkgirl does kill the defenseless because she's awesome. It's not how movies work. For a scene like this to have worked, it needed to have been darker and edgier, with some acknowledgement that she's crossing a serious line, and that this will likely cause serious conflicts with Superman and/or other governments down the line. Not a "fun" crowd-pleasing scene capped with a peppy one-liner, followed by zero consequences for or even acknowledgment of what she's done. This really bugs me. It's the movie having its cake and eating it too. None of this is helped by the fact that as a character, Hawkgirl has far less focus than the other two members of the Justice Gang and no discernible personality outside of a handful of quips.

The last criticism I have is that the climax of the movie did not need to indulge in the cliché of the giant portal/pillar of doom that needs to be closed before everything is destroyed. It's a tired, dusty plot beat that we've seen in about a dozen capeshit movies by now, and it just doesn't add anything to this one. We've already got the action in Superman's fight with Ultraman, and we've got the thematic clash between Superman and Lex to hammer out the message of the movie. That's all we needed. I don't think anyone in the world would have walked out of this movie feeling unsatisfied simply because its climax didn't also have some apocalyptic CGI raging in the background. The dumb portal in this movie feels like it's here more out of a sense of obligation than anything else.

Despite my complaints, though, this is a good movie and a solid start for the new DCU. It's not the best it could have been, but it's fine for what it is.

8
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: July 30, 2025, 02:48:31 AM »
In the past, I've supported bringing up relatively minor criticisms of Trump on the grounds that it's not right to ignore faults that we'd bash other politicians for, and that these minor stories add to the problems with having Trump as the president instead of distracting from them. But I no longer think this, probably because of the current state of scandal surrounding Trump, and I honestly think it's ridiculous that anyone is wasting time analyzing this video or discussing whether or not it truly constitutes cheating. Like, yeah, Trump probably does cheat at golf, because he seemingly has every single moral failure that any one person can ever have, but at the end of the day, it's no one's business but Trump's and whomever he plays with whether his game is honest - and let's be real, anyone who chooses to play golf with Trump in this day and age has to know the score by now. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they all have to sign secret contracts where they promise to tell anyone who asks that Trump won easily and is in fact the greatest golfer they've ever played with. More important things are going on. Here's one of them:

https://apnews.com/article/jeffrey-epstein-congress-ghislaine-maxwell-justice-department-3ca45e130deb5f2eee8deff36d99734f

The story of how Trump bravely took a stand against Epstein and his criminal ways two decades ago and that's how they fell out has long been assumed to be true, even though the only supposed witness who could vouch for it being true was Trump himself. I suspect this story was given the benefit of the doubt for so long because it was a lawyer representing Epstein's victims who spread it around rather than Trump himself, even though he had no evidence for it being true beyond, as I said, Trump's own word. I personally never thought that Trump simply washing his hands of the matter by kicking Epstein out of his club (instead of, you know, trying to stop him by going to the police) made him look all that great to begin with, but the point is moot, because now Trump has admitted that wasn't what happened. His feud with Epstein was never about him being a creep or sex trafficker at all. It was just that Epstein supposedly "stole" Virginia Guiffre from him. Not that he raped her. Not that he hurt her. That he "stole" her - from Trump. Trump is always the victim.

9
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: July 20, 2025, 09:11:24 PM »
The real question is that if Trump has done nothing wrong, why are you responding to comparisons of him and Rosie with two wrongs don't make a right? There are no "two wrongs," according to you. You can't simultaneously argue that a) Trump has done nothing wrong and that b) Trump's wrongdoing is no defense for Rosie's wrongdoing. Of course, you could try to make the case that Rosie has done wrong while Trump hasn't, but that would require making an actual argument and not simply repeating two wrongs don't make a right.

10
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: July 19, 2025, 01:48:08 AM »
To make your murder analogy work, we'd have to suppose that there's a guy named Joe who killed someone, nothing ever happened to him, and there was a large group of people who outright celebrated the fact that Joe had killed a person and admired just how tough and daring he was for doing it. Then a guy named Bob comes along and kills someone, and the same people celebrating Joe killing a person acted horrified and said, "How dare you kill a person? Murder is never, never, never justified!" and when Bob argued that Joe was celebrated for killing someone, those people stuck their fingers in their ears and shrieked, "Two wrongs don't make a right!"

I am sure that if you murder someone in cold blood, there will be someone in existence who is willing to give you a thumbs up or "celebrate" it. However, the presence of those people and their potential hyprocrisy doesn't justify your murder. You, alone, are responsible for the murder that you commit. Provided that they did not force you to do it, it doesn't matter what other people do or don't do. Other people are not you. It's called self responsibility.

The point of the analogy was obviously not to claim that two wrongs make a right, but to highlight the hypocrisy of condemning the wrongdoing of one person while condoning or actively encouraging the same wrongdoing  from someone else. I regret even expanding on this dumb analogy to begin with, as it's just given you an opportunity to further repeat second-grade moral platitudes, while ignoring the main point I'm trying to get at:

Quote
Quote from: honk
When Trump behaves like a horrible person, you either look the other way or outright praise him for it. When someone who's opposed to Trump behaves poorly, you become a holier-than-thou pompous scold. Is being a bad person cool and acceptable or not? It's a simple question.

You are justifying the bribery of politicians with someone else's alleged crimes. Are you arguing that Trump is so corrupt that Rosie O'Donnell was forced to bribe politicians to vote against a GOP tax bill? This would be a laughable argument. No one forced Rosie O'Donnell to do what she did. She, alone, is responsible.

Nope, sorry, this isn't a relevant response to what I asked you. Once again, is being a bad person cool and acceptable or not? Do you admire Trump for being a shameless and entertaining edgelord who doesn't give a fuck about anything, which presumably reflects your values, or do you see him as a deeply moral and upstanding man who stands for integrity and Christianity, which presumably reflects your values? You have to make a choice. He can't be both of these opposite extremes, and you can't claim to genuinely support and agree with both of these opposite extremes.

11
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: July 18, 2025, 05:53:31 PM »
You can't say "two wrongs don't make a right" when you refuse to accept that what Trump has said and done is even a "wrong" to begin with. To make your murder analogy work, we'd have to suppose that there's a guy named Joe who killed someone, nothing ever happened to him, and there was a large group of people who outright celebrated the fact that Joe had killed a person and admired just how tough and daring he was for doing it. Then a guy named Bob comes along and kills someone, and the same people celebrating Joe killing a person acted horrified and said, "How dare you kill a person? Murder is never, never, never justified!" and when Bob argued that Joe was celebrated for killing someone, those people stuck their fingers in their ears and shrieked, "Two wrongs don't make a right!" Because that's more or less what you're doing. When Trump behaves like a horrible person, you either look the other way or outright praise him for it. When someone who's opposed to Trump behaves poorly, you become a holier-than-thou pompous scold. Is being a bad person cool and acceptable or not? It's a simple question.

12
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: July 18, 2025, 01:44:57 PM »
I'm again struck by the blatant contradiction of Trump fans who insist they admire him for being a cool bad boy who says what he wants and does what he wants, a master troll who stomps all over the delicate feelings of the whiny bleeding-heart "feels>reals" types and sends them scurrying for cover, only for them, whenever it's convenient, to reinvent him as a deeply pious and upstanding family man who stands against the godless immorality of people like the Clintons and Hollywood liberals, as well as a fearless defender of children against the predatory LGBT community. Which is it, guys? Do you embrace Trump's amorality or not? You can't sneer "lol, fuck your feelings" at people who rightly criticize Trump for making misogynistic or racist attacks and then turn around and say, "My goodness, I am offended by Rosie O'Donnell promoting a Flash game where you kill the president. This is deeply immoral! Think of the children!" It's one or the other. You can be all in on 4chan-style amorality and deliberate offensiveness, or you can claim the high ground and insist you're standing up for Christian values and decency, but you can't do both.

13
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: July 15, 2025, 04:25:49 PM »
Yeah but if Dems get back in power, revenge time.

Like, the next dem president could execute Trump at the inauguration for reasons of him being a domestic threat, arrest and deport every maga member, deny allowing any voting to be secret ballot, then, to top it all off, have ICE protect itself by killing any protesters.

Which is all the apparent power Trump now has.  Or he assumes he does.

No, a Democratic president would be held to account if they tried to exceed their power so blatantly. The Supreme Court would rule against them, Congress would impeach them, public support would drop to nothing, etc. I suspect that a Republican president would also face the appropriate consequences, as there's no other high-profile conservative I'm aware of with the charisma to keep Trump's cult of personality going, although it's hard to say for sure given the GOP's embrace of cynicism and abandonment of democratic ideals.

And there's no point in arguing with Action80. He keeps moving the goalposts every time someone points out to him that his argument is nonsense. His last argument was that politicians passing laws on the subject of what Clinton did was what made it a direct reflection of his political ideology. Now his argument seems to be that the affair happening in the workplace was what made it a direct reflection of Clinton's political ideology. If I provided counter-examples of the hundreds of other inappropriate or illegal things people can do at the workplace that presumably don't reflect their political ideology, he'd change his mind yet again and insist that it actually came down to something completely different. There's nothing to be gained by debating someone who's acting in bad faith.

After the 'pussy grabbing', crypto scams, insults to our war veterans, subverting our democracy, and aligning with autocrats, it's good to see that at least some Republicans will draw the line at child sex trafficking.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/07/14/trump-maga-epstein-bondi-bongino-00451114?cid=apn

Live by the conspiracy, die by the conspiracy.

This will blow over, just like the hundred or so other scandals that would have ended the career of any other politician have blown over. Trump's fans don't care about child sex trafficking, just like they don't care about the fact that he's a corrupt con man, an incompetent idiot, a rapist, and a deeply foul, sleazy man who exhibits just about every negative quality a single person could have. Trump's fans care about Trump, and they will never, ever abandon him. Not even Trump's eventual death will put an end to their overwhelming devotion and loyalty to him.

14
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: July 14, 2025, 04:13:45 PM »
Claiming acts of driving and tax payments are somehow analogous to acts of banging an intern at the office

That's not what I said, but look, whatever. Nothing I'm saying is getting through to you, so if you really want to believe that Clinton is a left-wing totalitarian because of his affair with Monica Lewinsky, then fine, go ahead. The rest of the world knows you're wrong.

On the other hand, there is a compelling argument to be made that the far left should be stripped of citizenship and deported.

No, there really isn't. It's blatantly unconstitutional on the face of it and horrific on an ethical level. That being said, if he wants to do it, then he'll do it. The courts won't stop him, Congress won't stop him, and his fans won't stop supporting him. They will never stop supporting him. That's why I'm not excited about the backlash Trump is getting over Epstein. His fans will fall in line within a week or so.

15
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: July 11, 2025, 12:42:59 PM »
Sadaam, you clearly stated Clinton was a centrist.

Yes.

Quote
Laws governing sexual conduct in the workplace are set by PLOTICIANS (spelling error purposeful).

Yes.

Quote
Therefore, the behavior has everything to do with political ideology.

No, that doesn't follow at all. You might as well say that laws governing taxes are set by politicians, and therefore filing my tax return indicates my political ideology. Or that laws governing traffic and the rules of the road are set by politicians, and therefore driving my car indicates my political ideology. Or any other number of absurd conclusions, really.

Quote
It was the act of a domineering totalitarian, certainly not a centrist.

I'm all for judging politicians based on their character and the lives they've lived, but you can't just take it for granted that their ethical flaws and misdeeds directly translate into their political ideology. Someone who constantly speeds can't therefore be assumed to be opposed to speed limits on an ideological level. Someone who cheats on their taxes can't therefore be assumed to be opposed to taxation on an ideological level. And someone who pursues an inappropriate relationship with an intern half their age who can't reasonably say no to them can't therefore be assumed to domineering or totalitarian on an ideological level. It's just not how these things work, and there are plenty of examples from history bearing this out. George W. Bush by all accounts is a loving husband and father, but his decision to launch a destructive war under false pretenses that cost countless lives so that he could advance his own political agenda and enrich his cronies in the private sector reeks of a deeply callous cruelty. Lyndon B. Johnson was an outspoken racist as a younger man, but he devoted his presidency to passing critical legislation protecting civil rights that probably wouldn't be able to be passed today. These things don't perfectly correlate into political ideology like that.

16
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: July 10, 2025, 01:52:21 PM »
BANGING INTERNS IS CENTRIST

Nobody said that it was centrist, just that it wasn't left-wing. Clinton's affair with an intern had nothing to do with his political ideology. It wasn't left-wing, it wasn't right-wing, and it wasn't centrist. This really isn't a hard concept to grasp.

17
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: July 09, 2025, 07:51:41 AM »
It's a matter of politics, certainly, but not of policy.
Yes, of course.

There are no government policies regarding sexual conduct in the workplace. ::)

Look, you're just being obstinate at this point. You know what I mean. Clinton's affairs didn't make him any less of a centrist.

18
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: July 09, 2025, 06:39:42 AM »
No, he's talking about the fact that Trump was found liable for sexual abuse rather than rape. We spent several pages discussing this back when the news first broke. According to Tom, the fact that the jury chose not to find Trump liable for rape is a clear repudiation of Carroll's entire story and proof that Trump is entirely innocent; however, the fact that the same jury found Trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation when he denied the whole thing even happened means nothing at all.

19
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: July 08, 2025, 07:18:24 PM »
Clinton a "centrist."

Explains the blow job (it is a perfectly acceptable policy to have sex relations with your intern) and Janet Reno (of Waco fame).

Again, what in the living fuck are you smoking?

I really have no idea what point you think you're making here. I'm discussing Clinton's political positions, not his ethics, and his affairs don't change the fact that he was a centrist any more than they change the fact that he was from Arkansas. If in your usual roundabout way you're trying to get my opinion of Clinton, then I'll give it to you - his affair with an intern half his age while he was in a position of power over her was deeply predatory and has never gotten the mainstream condemnation it truly deserves (as opposed to simply hand-wringing about adultery, which was in comparison a trivial concern), there's almost certainly some fire to the smoke of the numerous allegations of sexual misconduct he's accumulated over the years, and I'm sure he'd go down in flames just like Trump if the government released all the information it had on Epstein. Maybe that's why Biden never released it.

When the affair is taking place with an intern in the workplace, that most certainly is a matter of politics.

It's a matter of politics, certainly, but not of policy. Think about it this way - is having an affair an inherently left-wing or right-wing thing to do? Is someone who has an affair logically more or less likely to cut taxes? To pursue foreign intervention? To support gay marriage? It doesn't really make sense.

20
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: July 07, 2025, 07:02:59 PM »
Sadaam - "Clinton-era centrism..."

Getting blown by an intern while seated behind the desk in the Oval Office is a very "centrist" thing to do.

LMMFAO!

What does that have to do with his policies? Clinton ran as and governed as a centrist, and thirty years later, Democratic presidential candidates are doing the exact same thing.

Quote
I also don't believe that Elon was ever especially liked or admired by the left.
That explains all the Democrats in Chicago parading around in Teslas with bumper stickers declaring, "I bought this before Elon went crazy."

WTF you smoking, anyway!?!?

LMMFAO!!!

People once being willing to buy his cars without being judged hardly makes him some kind of hero or leader to the left. Think about it this way - if the head of, say, Ford, suddenly made the news for saying and doing a bunch of horrible things, you'd probably see a similar level of embarrassment among Ford owners and an eagerness to distance themselves from him. That wouldn't mean that the head of Ford was someone they had especially liked or admired before. As I've said, I've only ever heard that Elon used to be beloved by the left from conservatives. He's been heavily criticized by leftists for several years, long before he ever bought Twitter or publicly embraced Trump.

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