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Messages - iamcpc

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541
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Australia & Chile FET how far apart?
« on: November 06, 2018, 10:26:27 PM »
I thought I just explained my level of math. Personally if you looked at points on a basketball and told me the distance between several I would be unable to calculate the shape of the basketball. Is it possible to do? I have no idea. I asked my friend the math major and he didn't have any insight. I have no reason to either agree or disagree.
But if you don't understand the math, why are you making a claim that contradicts the math? The whole basis of geodesy is to determine the shape of the earth by using large tape measures. You may dispute this, but then it's odd to say you don't understand the claim you dispute.

My claim was that the only flat earth model that I've found which can corroborate these things is one of an infinite repeating plane. Is that claim somehow against some math I don't understand? If so can you dumb it down to calc 2 level math for me and explain how my claim contradicts it?


Presumably your math friend has heard of Gauss?

I don't want to derail this conversation with complex math (which any FE person can easily claim is a product of a sphere earth system therefore will show the earth is a sphere) and the shape of the earth.
I would like to, instead, discuss how it's possible in the flat earth theory that these distances which have been traveled, measured, navigated, and verified hundreds of thousands of times are still claimed to be unknown.

If you are looking to debate masters level math with someone you should start a new thread which I will gladly avoid because I don't have a masters in math. I will concede defeat right now and say that you have mathematically PROVEN beyond ANY doubt that the earth is an oblate spheroid. Can we get back on the topic now?

542
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Australia & Chile FET how far apart?
« on: November 06, 2018, 10:19:25 PM »
I gave 3 examples of maps WIDELY accepted maps of the earth that I consider largely accurate. They all display NOTHING about the shape of the earth. They all depict the earth as an infinite repeating plane.
(1) Google maps tells you the correct distance between different points.
(2) Therefore it tells you SOMETHING about the shape of the earth.

Gauss's proposition, which is the basis of all geodesy, is that you can tell the shape of the earth just by measuring the distances between a set of points. A big tape measure is enough. If you disagree, explain why.

I thought I just explained my level of math. Personally if you looked at points on a basketball and told me the distance between several I would be unable to calculate the shape of the basketball. Is it possible to do? I have no idea. I asked my friend the math major and he didn't have any insight. I have no reason to either agree or disagree.

Logically if you told me the distance between point A and B was 500 miles and the distance between point C and D was also 500 miles and then asked me what shape the object is that these points are located on i would say that you don't have enough information to calculate the shape of the object. Maybe if I had some sort of direction or layout of these points I could take a shot at it.

furthermore I believe it's highly possible there is some sort of difference between a distance between points in planar geometry and on earth. Planar geometry generally does have hills, lakes, trees, etc. But don't take my word for it. I don't have a masters in math. If you do then you surely know much more about it than I do.


I don't want to derail this conversation with complex math (which any FE person can easily claim is a product of a sphere earth system therefore will show the earth is a sphere) and the shape of the earth.
I would like to, instead, discuss how it's possible in the flat earth theory that these distances which have been traveled, measured, navigated, and verified hundreds of thousands of times are still claimed to be unknown.


543
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Australia & Chile FET how far apart?
« on: November 06, 2018, 09:23:20 PM »
You mean Google, yes?
With hundreds and hundreds of years of experiences in fields like navigation, cartography, traveling, surveying, shipping, solar astronomy etc corroborated by literally MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people making these trips/measurements/maps/surveys every single year how anyone could possibly claim these distances/directions are incorrect or unknown just baffles my mind.
So Google is correct, and the earth itself is flat? We have discussed this a few times before and I have mentioned this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaussian_curvature but you have never responded.

I'm saying that if the earth was flat then 99% of the flat earth models that I've seen are outright impossible and can be EASILY discredited by anyone with a few hundred bucks, a vacation, an odometer and a road trip.

I gave 3 examples of maps WIDELY accepted maps of the earth that I (along with millions of other people) consider largely accurate. They all display NOTHING about the shape of the earth. They all depict the earth as an infinite repeating plane.

In terms of Gaussian Curvature the highest math I ever took was Calc2 and some higher level statistics. I don't know anything about Differential Geometry.  Let alone the differential topology or abstract/linear algebra classes that come before it. That math, quite frankly, is beyond me. Even my friend, who is a math major, stopped at the differential topology level.

Lucky for me you don't need a masters in math to make or read a map!

544
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Australia & Chile FET how far apart?
« on: November 06, 2018, 06:53:19 PM »
What's really hilarious is that there is a flat earth model which are supported by known distances, flight times, travel times, shipping times, cartography, navigation etc.  Yet any time one of the obviously impossible flat earth models gets weakened in any way by any sort of evidence that evidence is almost instantly called suspect, fake, flawed, impossible etc.
You mean Google, yes?



With hundreds and hundreds of years of experiences in fields like navigation, cartography, traveling, surveying, shipping, solar astronomy etc corroborated by literally MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people making these trips/measurements/maps/surveys every single year how anyone could possibly claim these distances/directions are incorrect or unknown just baffles my mind.


These are the ONLY flat earth models I've EVER seen which come even remotely close to corroborating these things. They are all an infinite repeating plane.

https://search.yahoo.com/search/?p=maps
https://www.bing.com/maps
http://suncalc.net/#/-0.0263,109.3425,2/2018.11.06/12:56
http://earth3dmap.com/

545
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Australia & Chile FET how far apart?
« on: November 06, 2018, 04:37:33 PM »
You guys have been debating these questions, Same exact questions I asked, for more than a year now, and with all evidence and proofs of existing realities FET still are in the dark as to how things work, and are in disbelief and/or denial? mind boggling.     

These things can go on forever. A refusal to accept basic distances which have been corroborated hundreds of thousands of times by many different systems and hundreds of thousands of people just boggles my mind.

Any distance or measurement which could weaken one of the many many different FE models is met with staunch resistance and nit picking ad infinitum.



This has been discussed so many times. I was also VERY curious about it. I got all the responses from a flight time superthread. Here's a link:

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.0

Thanks iam for going through the super thread. Wow, 24 pages and it seems that the FET argument upshot is that the entirety of long haul transport/navigation is based upon the wrong shape of earth and wildly inaccurate. Seems at a minimum, extremely cost prohibitive and downright dangerous.

What's really hilarious is that there is a flat earth model which are supported by known distances, flight times, travel times, shipping times, cartography, navigation etc.  Yet any time one of the obviously impossible flat earth models gets weakened in any way by any sort of evidence that evidence is almost instantly called suspect, fake, flawed, impossible etc.

546
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Australia & Chile FET how far apart?
« on: November 05, 2018, 10:38:54 PM »
I would say you are one of the more reasonable FE'ers.  I am curious how you feel about the old flight times arguments?   Its pretty well documented how fast and far flights go so it should be pretty easy to rough in a map even if it has single digit percentage errors.  Still better than what we have now

This has been discussed so many times. I was also VERY curious about it. I got all the responses from a flight time superthread. Here's a link:

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.0




-Because the angles of a triangle drawn between three flight paths = 180 degrees the earth is flat.
-Because the angles of a triangle drawn between three flight paths = 179.99984 degrees the earth is slightly concave.
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg121615#msg121615



-Distances between two cities which are far apart is unknown
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg121996#msg121996


-Flight GPS systems are inaccurate
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122030#msg122030
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122441#msg122441


-GPS systems are based on a round earth therefore will give measurements/distances which support a round earth.
-Aircraft are using instruments which assume round earth coordinates which will support a round earth.
-There is no flat earth map.
-The difference in flight time is based off of flight speed which has yet to be proven.
-The airplane speed and range is based off round systems therefore will give speeds and ranges which support a round earth
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122359#msg122359


-plane speed measurements are unreliable
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122364#msg122364

-there are no flat earth flight programs, systems, GPS etc because the flat earth aircraft navigation fund is nonexistent.
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122369#msg122369


-Triangulation as a measurement of distance can be inaccurate because the "known" locations used for triangulation are based on a round earth system
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122410#msg122410


-there are almost an infinite number of continental configurations (If a flight disproves flat earth continental configuration 23985729387592873 you then need to test continental configuration 23985729387592874).
-Groundspeed measurement instruments use a round earth coordinate system therefore will give results which support a round earth
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122411#msg122411


-proof is needed that mile measurements on a highway are accurate
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122423#msg122423

-Google maps is based on a round earth coordinate system
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122433#msg122433

-any navigation system based on longitude and latitude is a round earth navigation system (which is most likely used in all navigation systems)
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122655#msg122655

-any map, navigation, or measurement system which uses Latitude and Longitude in any way is inaccurate
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122664#msg122664

-That's not the map of the earth (a variant of there is no map of the earth)
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122672#msg122672

547
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Australia & Chile FET how far apart?
« on: November 05, 2018, 05:32:45 PM »
Note that edby is a Round Earther and does not appear to base his numbers in anything other than his own impression of how things "should" be. It is unlikely that any FE'er will speak with too much certainty about long distances at such an early stage of the theory's development.

This idea has been around for hundreds of years. Samuel Rowbotham was writing about it in the late 1800's. I agree that a few isolated researchers does not constitute a theory. While not popular there have been flat earth societies since the 1950's.  Which makes this at least 50-60 years old. The idea that we can't measure the distance from point A to point B within 100 miles on this planet is mind boggling to me.

With hundreds and hundreds of years of advancement in surveying, cartography, navigation, measuring etc how could anyone possibly make the claim that the distance between 2 points (which have been measured thousands of times in the past 600 years ) is unknown?

I know this flat earth model is unpopular because it does not fit with a dome, firmament, or ice wall but the infinite repeating plane model I believe is accurate.

https://search.yahoo.com/search/?p=maps

548
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Meteorites and the dome
« on: November 05, 2018, 04:56:50 PM »
I could not find anything in the wiki about this, so I'm curious; how does FET explain the existence of meteorites and the event of meteor showers?

From my observation, a meteor, as it enters our atmosphere/plane explodes with tremendous force and burns up into nothing.

What is going on with the dome as this happens? Do meteorites come from above the dome and poke holes in it just before they plunge into earth, or do they somehow form underneith the dome and plummit downwards suddenly for some unknown reason?

Is there another explanation?


Another explanation is that many of the flat earth models don't have a dome.

I don't know how the flat earth models that include a firmament along with the dome would explain this.


549
Flat Earth Theory / Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« on: November 01, 2018, 10:38:32 PM »

Yeah, I picked up on that. It doesn't change my opposition to what zorbakim is promoting, but I recognize that he's applying inverse proportionality of apparent size to distance, and that that is what he says creates our perception of depth. And he does say that as a result, "side-view" perspective reveals the rising plane of the earth presents as a curve. I've redrawn it in your graphic:




The first big problem with that concept is that, based on the distance from the observer, that wave is WAY more than 3 feet tall. A 3 foot wave that far in the distance would still be negligible in obscuring the building.

The second big problem is that, in this situation, both the observer and the building are at sea level. I still really struggle with how I could make this diagram (which is still very difficult for me to comprehend) when both the observer and the building are 30 feet above sea level.

550
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Some honest questions from a Round Earth believer.
« on: November 01, 2018, 06:18:11 PM »

How does a video showing refraction at points in the day in front of the horizon over the course of a day disprove curvature exactly?  This effect is also only under very specific conditions.  A supertanker video taken from the edge of the water in calm seas going over the curvature CANNOT be brought back “into focus” to its original water line at any time of the day or week or year with or without neat conditions which can give a mirage or bend light a little. 

Find me a video of a supertanker taken from the edge of a beach next to the water(not on a hill made of a small ship too small to resolve with our eyes), edge of any beach, being pulled back into full view after it moves beyond the horizon line.  This should be easy to find. Show me.

It does not disprove curvature at all. It proves that, under certain situations, a "sinking ship" effect can be cause by something other than the curve of the earth.

In the video I have just shown you a super tanker which was docked on the sore of the beach in the video would have disappeared and reappeared behind a "water line" without moving an inch. (much like the way that the beach disappears behind the water without moving an inch)

Both flat earthers and round earthers have acknowledged that these optical/environmental effects are real and they do have an impact on measurements, observations, and perceptions that we make on a day to day basis.

The round earth belief is that optics/atmosphere/environmental conditions AND curve both account for the sinking ship effect.
The flat earth belief is that optics/atmosphere/environmental conditions are the primary cause of the sinking ship effect

551
Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Horizon is Always at Eye Level
« on: October 26, 2018, 10:20:39 PM »
Yes, locating the horizon is affected by atmospheric conditions. Fog and haze can obscure the horizon, and if it's in the distance, it can present appearance of a false horizon.

I suggest taking pictures at the same time of the same object on the same day at the exact same second (maybe have a buddy on the phone and say 3-2-1-snap) to take a picture. This will eliminate ANY claims about environmental/atmospheric conditions because both images would have been taken under virtually the EXACT same atmospheric and optical conditions.

Then it just strengthens then claim that altitude above sea level, in addition to atmospheric/environmental conditions, affect the perceived horizon. Then the wiki should be updated to show that there are multiple factors which affect the perceived horizon.



No. The horizon does not rise with eye level. It would IF the earth was flat, but since it does not, the earth can't be flat. Failure of the horizon to match eye level doesn't mean the earth is a globe, but it can't be flat. It also means EnaG's explanation of perspective is in error. That's just a zetetic conclusion.

This would only be correct if you were talking about an infinite single flat plane flat earth model. Most of the flat earth models involve some sort of end/edge of the earth. Even in these models if you went up high enough you would just be looking down at the earth and the horizon along with it. The end/edge of the earth in these models would be considered the horizon.

552
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Re: Help Me debunk this stupid video
« on: October 26, 2018, 09:25:08 PM »

Some pretty amazing CGI was developed for cinema back in the 90's (See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_computer_animation_in_film_and_television#1990s).

However, even when we watch the hours of footage, some live and some not, of space stuff today, let alone in the 90's, for it to be CGI, the computing power to do so is currently unimaginable. A believable 10 second shot today in a movie of, let's say, an astronaut and maybe some other stuff floating around, takes a server farm and days to render. 10 seconds, days! Let alone the $, artists involved. Like I've said before, it's actually more technologically feasible, cheaper and easier to put some people in space than it is to fake it.

But you see terminator 2, robocop2, the lawnmower man etc you can CLEARLY tell that they are computer animated and not real.

Also in 1990 they didn't have server farms like they have today. VERY high end computers had like 8 MB of ram and like 200 MB of storage. early 90's super computer < 2018 smart phone.

How was 1990's technology (or even before that) able to produce this video (or other videos like it)?

My best guess is that they are on a 0 gravity plane ride where the plane accelerates down at 9.8 m/s giving the illusion of being weightless.


553
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Amateur radio shows the earth is round
« on: October 26, 2018, 09:00:53 PM »
I have done a little research and did quickly read thru a couple of papers that outline the effects of the earths atmosphere on radio waves.  Mostly these papers outlined things that I have witnessed for myself.  Things like rain and fog can attenuate microwave signals a lot.  TV stations typically have their studio downtown.  The transmit site is usually out in the country so they can construct 1000+ towers.  All the programming is then transmitted by a dedicated microwave link from studio to transmit site.  In my years sitting out at the transmitter and monitoring the equipment, I had a meter that would monitor the strength of the microwave signal coming from the studio.  Under certain weather conditions, like heavy rain, I would sometimes see the signal go right down into the noise for a couple of seconds before recovering.  Heavy fog could make things a little shaky too.  I looked at another paper that outlined the recommended procedures for commissioning a microwave link.  One of the important considerations was the curvature of the earth.  Atmospheric bending was also a factor and could actually increase the expected range a little.  All these considerations are often obscured because of other things like hills or tall buildings that may be in the path.  The bottom line is that the curvature of the earth definitely limits the expected range of a microwave link.  This statement isn't speculation, its the result of thousands of microwave links constructed.  Believe me, a practical business man will cut corners and save money where ever possible.  You can bet that a few have tried to 'scam the system' a little and try to get a microwave link working that was just too far over the horizon.  The results were probably as expected and the antenna had to be put on a bigger tower at more expense.  Like I have always said 'It isn't nice to try to fool mother nature'.  In this case Mother Nature has a global earth.  It isn't me making the argument it's the inanimate, brainless, microwave equipment that is making the determination.     

I just threw out a possible FE answer. One could also possibly say that the distance that radio waves travel has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.



The 25 million dollar question is what tests can be done to determine if the variance of travel distance of radio frequencies is due to environmental factors vs curve of earth?

554
Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Horizon is Always at Eye Level
« on: October 26, 2018, 08:58:22 PM »
I agree that the horizon isn't always at eye level, and drops as elevation increases. I have actually been planning to update the Wiki with some of Bobby's content.

There are a lot of people on here who would strongly disagree with you Tom. Before updating the wiki why don't we first determine if the horizon really drops or if we just perceive the drop of the horizon due to some sort of environment/atmospheric/optical phenomenon

I believe that was the point of all of this. The horizon isn't "always at eye level" as asserted in the Wiki, and a change is needed. The Wiki forgot about the concept of fog and atmosphere.

Bobby posted some images of the horizon level changing based on changing atmospheric conditions. I think that this is a fair change, and I do think that most FE'ers use the atmosphere argument when this subject comes up. You were misinterpreting the meaning of my post.

The question I have is that does the horizon drop or does the horizon stay at the same level and our optical devices just perceive a change in the level of the horizon do to environmental/optical conditions?


If perceived horizon is affected by altitude what methods could we use to determine why this is?

In flat earth models in which the earth has an edge or a defined end wouldn't the edge of the earth be considered a horizon?

If this is the case and you went to a high enough altitude wouldn't the perceived horizon (assuming there was no optical/environmental phenomenon) also drop in these flat earth models too?




555
Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Horizon is Always at Eye Level
« on: October 26, 2018, 07:53:52 PM »
I agree that the horizon isn't always at eye level, and drops as elevation increases. I have actually been planning to update the Wiki with some of Bobby's content.

There are a lot of people on here who would strongly disagree with you Tom. Before updating the wiki why don't we first determine if the horizon really drops or if we just perceive the drop of the horizon due to some sort of environment/atmospheric/optical phenomenon

556
Flat Earth Theory / Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« on: October 26, 2018, 04:37:41 PM »
Can you please show a diagram? I'm still not understanding how the 1m wave, even if that wave was at your eye level, would block the 100m building just behind it.

I'm pretty sure I got this figured out. The first premise is that the horizon is always at eye level. I'm going to operate under the assumption that he is adhering to the claim that the horizon always rises to eye level. The horizon rises to eye level the, at the point where the horizon has reached eye level there is a lone wave which is capable of obscuring more of the building than the height of the wave..



Here's an example (with observer and building both at sea level) with a wave on the horizon with the horizon rising to eye level with the building far beyond the horizon.

This helps me understand the original post but still baffles me as to what is happening when Bobby has documented this when both the camera/eye and the building are many feet above sea level.






One thing I noticed is that, even with no wave, part of the building is obscured. Leading me to believe that if something other than optics/environmental things were to blame for part of the building being obscured it would be the horizon and not waves.




Bobby,

This is something that you might be interested in. Inside of the claim that the horizon always raises to eye level who's to say that "raising to eye level" is linear.



557
Flat Earth Theory / Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« on: October 24, 2018, 11:54:17 PM »
Exactly...  that diagram is possible and shows how a large object can be blocked by a smaller wave IF your face is below the wave.    It is common sense.  Why a wave below your line of sight could ever block more then the height of the wave on an object behind it.... ever...  makes no sense at all.

Well there is the claim that horizon is always at eye level or always rises to eye level. Which is where the original claim was made.


So if the horizon rises to eye level and the observer and the building are both at sea level  then this is what i imagine. Even putting both the observer and the building at sea level, and raising the horizon to eye level it still does not add up to me.

558
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Help Me debunk this stupid video
« on: October 24, 2018, 10:29:20 PM »
Look this video got sent to me the other day and i am no expert on video stuff, so like i figure they are using ropes and stuff, but like i said, i am not confident in my argument on how they faked this... only that they DID!

Anyone whos interested take a look, I probably missed something, god be with ye all


I really don't know. I would say green screen/CGI but the problem that I run into is that there are videos like this from 1990 before CGI and modern video editing technology. If CGI/video editing explains this what explains videos like this from way before CGI:


559
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Amateur radio shows the earth is round
« on: October 24, 2018, 09:56:12 PM »
iamcpc, you're not even understanding the links you provide.

You asked for theories and hypothesis which I have given you. Sorry I am not a Radio Broadcast Engineer.


VHF signals are short range because they don't travel through the atmosphere that well.
HF signals are long range because they are better at traveling through the atmosphere.

Do not explain anything, formally or otherwise. They are just claims. Mere statements.

They are also, by definition, both theories and hypothesis.


Your 2nd set of links collectively describe an hypothesis as an informal explanation.  Explains, but has not been tested and does not need a predictive model.

Read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothesis

From the link you provided, again back to the English lessons. I thought that the dictionary would have cleared this up.
"A hypothesis (plural hypotheses) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon"

I propose that the explanation for why different radio frequencies travel different distances is because of environmental/atmospheric reasons. One frequency is better at navigating these environmental/atmospheric conditions therefore travels farther.


Your fist set of links are generic dictionary definitions, not definition of scientific theory which is what we need here.  However, they do collectively describe a theory as a formal explanation.  Being formal would require a predictive model that can, and has been tested.

Read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
Again using both of your sources I have provided you with both a theory and a hypothesis.

"A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested"

One radio frequency travels further because it is less affected by environmental/atmospheric conditions. This can be repeatedly tested  using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluating results.

Your fist set of links are generic dictionary definitions, not definition of scientific theory which is what we need here.  However, they do collectively describe a theory as a formal explanation.  Being formal would require a predictive model that can, and has been tested.


I have a predictive model. I predict that VHF signals are more affected by environmental conditions which reduces their range.
I predict that HF signals are less affected by environmental conditions which increases their range.
We can test this by examining the range of VHF signals and HF signals. It sounds like people here have already done this and verified that VHF signals don't travel as far as HF signals supporting the original predictive model.


Your 2nd set of links collectively describe an hypothesis as an informal explanation.  Explains, but has not been tested and does not need a predictive model.

In this situation the tests and results are the same. The predictive model is different.



For your last few links, you quote bits that refer to parts of the EM spectrum outside the scope of amateur radio.  If you read them  more honestly, you will see that the effects they are talking about are not attributed to air.  The first is specifically about the ionosphere.  In that one they soundly prove the OP's first post, so thanks for that.  Your 2nd one, if you had the attention span to actually read it, states:

This does not change the fact that, per the articles,  that environmental conditions can, and do, affect radio waves.





Ionosphere:   The ionosphere is the area that enables signals on the short wave bands to traverse major distances. It crosses over the meteorological boundaries and extends from altitudes around 60 km to 700 km. The region gains its name because the air in this region becomes ionised by radiation primarily from the sun. Free electrons in this region have affect radio signals and may be able to refract them back to Earth dependent upon a variety of factors.

So parts of the atmosphere can affect radio waves. Hmm that kinda supports the predictive model?



Troposphere:   As a very approximate rule of thumb, this area of the atmosphere tends to affect signals more above 30 MHz or so.
The troposhpere is where we live.  And as I had stated before, it only affects signals in the 10's of GHz.  Not in the amateur radio bands. They say over 30GHz - I said over 50GHz or so - so, again, thanks for providing some confirmation.

Another part of the atmosphere which affects radio waves. Hmm I'm really seeing a pattern of parts of the atmosphere affecting radio waves. Even more evidence suggesting that it's more about environmental conditions and less about the shape of the earth.

While a certain number of the collected environmental variables did play a small role in the resultant cyclic behavior of the net loss vector

Yet more evidence supporting the idea that environmental variables playing a role in radio waves.


Thanks one more time.  You have gone and gotten all the information that totally disproves your unsubstantiated statements.  Now I guess they are just bunk.

You ask a question, I give an answer, you then claim that the answer does not count.

Maybe this should be moved to the debating English semantics forum because, by both my definitions and yours, I have provided you with theories and hypothesis. Without language as a common ground I don't see the point of continuing in this conversation.

560
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Amateur radio shows the earth is round
« on: October 24, 2018, 06:26:31 PM »
Sorry, I don't intend to be mean or rude here, but those are not theories.

Seriously? Well here we go with dictionary links.


https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/theory
"something suggested as a reasonable explanation for facts, a condition, or an event"
The facts are that one frequency travels further than the other. I suggest (as a reasonable explanation) that one frequency travels better through air and therefore travels longer.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/theory
"A theory is a formal idea or set of ideas that is intended to explain something."
I suggest, as an explanation for why one frequency travels farther than another: One frequency travels better through air and therefore travels longer.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/theory.html
"A set of assumptions, propositions, or accepted facts that attempts to provide a plausible or rational explanation of cause-and-effect (causal) relationships among a group of observed phenomenon."
The observed phenomenon is that one radio frequency travels further than another. The assumption which attempts to provide a plausible explanation for the observed phenomenon is One frequency travels better through air and therefore travels longer.

They are not even hypothesis. 


Seriously? Well here we go with dictionary links.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypothesis
"a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences"
The tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical consequences is: one radio frequency travels better in the air therefore travels further

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/hypothesis
"a tentative insight into the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena"

A concept that is not yet verified but if true would explain why one radio frequency travels further than the other is: one radio frequency travels better in the air therefore travels further

"a proposal intended to explain certain facts or observations"
A proposal intended to explain the observation/fact that one radio frequency travels further than the other is: one radio frequency travels better in the air therefore travels further

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/hypothesis
"a proposition, or set of propositions, set forth as an explanation for the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena"
A proposition set forth as an explanation for the phenomena of one radio frequency traveling further than another is: one radio frequency travels better in the air therefore travels further


https://www.livescience.com/21490-what-is-a-scientific-hypothesis-definition-of-hypothesis.html
"A hypothesis is a suggested solution for an unexplained occurrence"
The unexplained occurrence in the flat earth model is that one radio frequency travels further than another. A suggested solution to this occurrence is: one radio frequency travels better in the air therefore travels further


They are merely unsubstantiated statements.

A perfect example of an unsubstantiated statement as shown by the evidence above (and below).

Now i'll send you some more links


https://radiojove.gsfc.nasa.gov/education/educ/radio/tran-rec/exerc/iono.htm
"Earth's atmosphere, however, acts an opaque barrier to much of the electromagnetic spectrum. The atmosphere absorbs most of the wavelengths shorter than ultraviolet, most of the wavelengths between infrared and microwaves, and most of the longest radio waves."


https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/antennas-propagation/propagation-overview/atmosphere-atmospheric-effects-on-radio-propagation.php
"The various effects like reflection, refraction, diffraction, etc all come together in a real way as radio signals propagate through the atmosphere. The signals are affected by a variety of factors enabling signals to be detected near and far dependent upon a variety of factors."



https://calhoun.nps.edu/handle/10945/5353
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5261619

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