101

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Theory that Black Holes are Land Mass

« on: July 30, 2022, 03:00:19 PM »

You accept that the JWST is real, is making observations of the cosmos and was launched from earth into space.  But everything about that process like all space launches was calculated on the standard (RE) model of the solar system which you claim is completely and radical wrong.   If JWST is real then the earth is round.  You can't have it both ways.

I acknowledge within the "flat earth" system many of the distances are different then in the standard RE model.  But many of these distances are measured without a good frame of reference.  Planes see lots of snow when going fast around the world. The ISS sees lots of water going around the equator.  And spacecraft see a lot of space.

I accept the standard RE model is adequate for day to day travel needs.  But considering new ideas I have faith will lead to greater understanding and will benefit society. 

102

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Theory that Black Holes are Land Mass

« on: July 28, 2022, 07:54:44 PM »

I'll try to answer a few of your questions sincerely.

I honestly think over time as observations become better along with telescopes like the James Webb, then we will see our orbit and position around the Milky Way is similar to Dwarf Galaxies.

I'm not sure why we measure stars and galaxies larger than I believe they are.  I just don't believe we can see objects light years away.  Or that light can travel that far... 

As to my claim "earth sits beneath the sun" it is misleading.  I was trying to seperate earth from the sun and its orbiting celestials.  My rendering is not to scale.  The best pictures of our solar system are obviously from space.  The earth and planets look so small from satellite images far away it's not worth me posting them but here is a link from the Voyager 1 spacecraft looking at the solar system from VERY far away.  https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/galleries/images-voyager-took/solar-system-portrait/#gallery-1 

What's interesting is how small the earth looks!   But when you remember only a certain portion of  earth is illuminated during the day and the atmosphere literally halves the image it looks like every other planet.  Another reason other large land masses like earth aren't detected in neighboring galaxies, until black holes came along.

I can try to offer you my FE Theory on Celestial Orbits.  I went into this before during our moon orbit and Apollo landing conversation, but basically objects orbit around the sun (besides earth) because the sun creates powerful winds that circle it in upwards of a million miles an hour.  And obviously the large mass in the middle of galaxies is the large world. 

103

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Theory that Black Holes are Land Mass

« on: July 28, 2022, 04:49:15 PM »

Hi All,

I've updated the image at the top of this thread to better explain my theory. 

I'm aware traditional science holds we are living in a small solar system within the milky way.  One of trillions of stars.  I'm suggesting that even though our world developed in the milky way, eventually we branched off and became a dwarf galaxy like our neighbors.  

Then what are the stars?   I don't believe galaxies or stars are as big as everyone says they are.  Like my image suggests, I think earth is relatively big and sits below the sun.  Planets and asteroids all orbit the sun and account for everything we see in the sky.  The Sun is the only "nuclear" object in the sky for which everything rotates around - except earth.  Other Galaxies have their own primary sun or bi-nary star system in the center which has planets, asteroids, and accreditation disks orbiting them as well.  

We are an "Island Universe" to ourselves.... stars included.

I think this answers most questions about earth's location. the size of stars, galaxies, etc...  Some asked what compelling data do you have that explains your model to observations?

First, Flat Earth Theory...   Over the years, many people have developed an earth model which matches observations....  I don't need to go into that.

Second, Other phenomena within galaxies that I think our own "system" can explain are Fermi Bubbles.  Huge plumbs of hot gas above and below a galactic plane as seen in purple.  I think these are what we on earth call the "Heliosphere" created by the sun emitting heat.  
Third, Relativistic Jets are another phenomena earth could explain.  Huge rays of light sometimes shine from the center of galaxies above and below the plane.  I believe Earth's Rotation can twist magnetic field lines up into space and the Sun's light illuminates it.  I don't think we can observe this from earth but Earth has the mechanisms to explain them.

Fourth, obviously Galaxies spin.  Earth and our Solar system also spin. 
Fifth, the first images of Black Holes show in my opinion the Radio Signature of an Aurora...  Very powerful electrical and magnetic events that fit well in the model above - even the twisty magnetic lines are shared between earth Auroras and Black Hole "aura's".  OhPlease - if the Chandra x ray radio telescope imaged earth's auroras I think you'd see the same images as a black hole almost exactly in size and shape. 

Lastly, scientists have speculated there is a large mass at the center of each galaxy holding everything into its orbit.   Naturally they assumed it was a traditional star system with a massive star in the middle.  However, flat earth theory can also explain celestial orbit and account for the large mass in the middle.

I could go on, but I would rather answer any specific questions if you have them.  

104

Flat Earth Theory / Re: HF Radio Signals, Propagation and DX.

« on: July 28, 2022, 11:59:56 AM »

Years ago, while living in the USA I could occasionally hear Russian stations using CW (morse code) with a definite echo in their signal.  If you used your beam antenna and turned it to the North the signal would peak up.  You could also rotate the antenna 180 degrees and again it would peak up.  Clearly there was a short path signal and a long path signal.  One signal coming in via the shortest path on a globe earth and another signal from the same station but coming in from the opposite direction from the longer path around the globe.  One signal would be delayed from the other because of the difference in distances and would produce an echo.  This kind of phenomena wouldn’t be possible on a flat earth. 
The sunspot cycle doesn’t make it easy to observe this kind of thing these days but will improve in the future.  Unless the FET can show how electro-magnetic waves can be bent around in a circle in the horizontal plane the theory is deficient.   

Ron - I mapped out your location in the US when you heard transmissions from Russia (see map in previous post). Keep in mind this is a South Centered FE Map.

I can't explain why you heard transmissions from the north facing antenna faster and without an echo.  I'd think a more direct signal would be received from the south?   

I also don't assume that signals on a FE would bounce off the Ionosphere and into space.  All the layers of the atmosphere are curved with higher altitudes as you approach the equator (that's RE confirmed).  So, maybe the Russian transmission took a different bouncy path to your location?  Not sure if they can follow circular paths around the dome or what not. 

105

Flat Earth Theory / Re: HF Radio Signals, Propagation and DX.

« on: July 28, 2022, 11:41:10 AM »

Hey JCM, thanks for the reply.

So, my thoughts are :

1. I don't see why on a FE the bounce would make more sense? On a FE you wouldnt need to, you could aim your signal at the "horizon" and your away, no need for angle of attack at all.

2. Bouncing around the globe is based on the fact the layers within the atmosphere are also round, and thats where the bouncing occurs. (Read : "https://www.sws.bom.gov.au/Educational/5/2/2 ), 

3. Bouncing generally only affects HF and below. Satellite signals are generally in the GHZ range and require line of sight to work. 1575.42 MHz for GPS for example. Those signals, if sent from the ground would simply penetrate straight into space.

So here's another example of how we know this happens. When working modes like FT8 on HF, i'm in the UK and my signal was being received in Australia, and Iran, all sorts. But people in Scotland cant hear me. Neither can those in London, and the signal passes directly over them (in the F or E regions of the atmosphere, not at ground level). Hence the curve

Cheers!

Kev

Edit : So here's a quick propagation report based on stations receiving my signal this morning.



Signals again received in Australia... but shot directly over everyone else?

Kev I made this map which represents the signals received from your UK transmission.   It looks spherical like what you might expect from line of sight transmission on a flat earth, but i'm not sure why they didn't pick up your signal further north.   

The US/Russia Station transmissions on this map are to address Ron J's observations..

106

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Question about EA wiki page leading to a fundamental question

« on: July 27, 2022, 10:36:30 PM »

Jimster, I'll speak to you from a personal perspective.    Few years ago I was a regular guy who had a basic education in science.   I became aware through friends and youtube that people genuinely thought the earth was flat.   A compelling idea, which over the years I've investigated. 

 I've been able to find tons of information about Flat Earth Theory.  Our own TFES website has a lengthy library of information that's growing.  Youtube has seen an explosion in FE content...   Globebusters is now educating people on Electrical Currents and how they produce Weight and Direction.  They even explain how Flying Discs work within this framework      FlatEarth24/7 is always on air etc..

Millions of people are at least talking about the subject.

And obviously from my own perspective, using the wealth of all science RE and FE alike, I've been able to seriously advance my understanding of the Cosmo's. 

However, you have raised an interesting point.   I do feel there's a problem with close-mindedness or group think perhaps that's preventing and even strangling the progress of science and new people with new faces.  Flat Earth and Round Earthers are both guilty of this. I don't know how to solve it other than cautiously move forward.  I do believe humans are destined for scientific advancement and FE has a role in that.

107

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Theory that Black Holes are Land Mass

« on: July 27, 2022, 08:03:20 AM »

The grand theory will see similarities between observations we see on earth with those in neighboring galaxies.      I'm aware that we locate black holes by the orbiting bodies around it.  I'm not sure if they are orbiting the black hole or its accompanying solar system.  And below is a short clip of the northern lights.  Heated gas goes into and out of view:  Northern Lights clip:  https://player.vimeo.com/video/45819280?h=bfb07b50a6

108

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Theory that Black Holes are Land Mass

« on: July 27, 2022, 07:16:36 AM »

Here is a photo of Carina - A Dwarf Galaxy orbiting the Milky Way. 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carina_Dwarf_Spheroidal_Galaxy

109

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Theory that Black Holes are Land Mass

« on: July 27, 2022, 06:19:31 AM »

Hi Guys,

I thought I would share with you a theory I'm working on.  I believe that a central landmass lies at the center of each Galaxy.  These land masses are what we refer to as Black Holes.   

Also, what’s the purpose of calling the solar system a dwarf galaxy versus not? Is it sort of a geostationary argument in that the landmass at the center is not revolving? I don’t quite get why having the dwarf galaxy label applied to the solar system.

Solar systems only tell part of the story.  If we are at the center of a galaxy, then earths role changes a bit.

110

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Theory that Black Holes are Land Mass

« on: July 27, 2022, 02:51:54 AM »

No, but smaller galaxies are born from the spiral arms.

111

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Theory that Black Holes are Land Mass

« on: July 27, 2022, 02:21:48 AM »

I suppose the most compelling reasons for me are observational data.  Right now we agree that the solar system orbits the Milky Way.  But in the past 10-20 years, we've discovered many smaller Dwarf Galaxies also orbit the Milky Way. To me, its not a stretch to believe we are one of them.

Assuming this is true, then our island dwarf galaxy Earth would look similar to other galaxies. 

112

Flat Earth Investigations / Theory that Black Holes are Land Mass

« on: July 27, 2022, 12:04:48 AM »

Hi Guys,

I thought I would share with you a theory I'm working on.  I believe that a central landmass lies at the center of each Galaxy.  These land masses are what we refer to as Black Holes.   

Traditionally, black holes are viewed as very dense collapsed stars with no visible light emission.   Below is an artist rendition of a black hole and an article describing them more.  https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/resources/2319/first-image-of-a-black-hole/



The second image is a re-creation of what I think the center of each galaxy looks like. You'll notice I replaced the center with a habitable land mass and a solar system similar to our own.  Rotating planets, gas, and asteroids around a central star system may be shared by all galaxies.  The "orange rings" of hot gas we see in black hole photographs are Auroras caused by solar radiation hitting the atmosphere like on Earth.  Unfortunately, it might be too dim to capture images of land beyond a black hole. 



The original image came from an article that describes another theory of two merging black holes early in the Milky Way's history if you're interested: http://annesastronomynews.com/has-galactic-black-hole-swallowed-its-counterpart/.
 

113

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Question about EA wiki page leading to a fundamental question

« on: July 25, 2022, 12:50:43 PM »

Billo, this forum is a good place to start.

114

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Question about EA wiki page leading to a fundamental question

« on: July 25, 2022, 08:11:28 AM »

My statment seems puzzling because I still consider myself a student of science, the same person who grew up with an understanding the earth is a planet.  However, I was also taught that throughout history our ideas about the world have changed, sometimes dramatically so.  And when I come into evidence that there might be alternative explanations for the world around us, I generally am enthusiastic to learn about them. 

And how i learn about them requires learning from other scientists and following scientific principles during personal investigations. 

115

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Question about EA wiki page leading to a fundamental question

« on: July 23, 2022, 10:54:22 PM »

I think Flat Earth Theory has made alot of progress over the past few years.   Lets just keep talking science and let what happens happen. 

116

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Question about EA wiki page leading to a fundamental question

« on: July 23, 2022, 08:20:07 PM »

Jim I don't know what to say.  I can't speak for the official Wiki thread.  On some points we agree, like the sun is above the atmosphere. 

And the dome is the atmosphere!!  And the atmosphere does exist we can agree on.   How the atmosphere effects the distribution of light is a Flat Earth Theory that differs between some people.  All your other questions can be answered with conventional RE and FE science... 

Orbits around planets are still unkown to me from a Flat Earth perspective. 

117

Flat Earth Community / Re: Apollo Software Programmer Margaret Hamilton

« on: July 23, 2022, 07:24:27 PM »

Thank you for the information.  An interesting topic indeed.

118

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Question about EA wiki page leading to a fundamental question

« on: July 23, 2022, 12:11:07 AM »

As you said, the dome is very important to FET.  Having an atmospheric dome which explains many RET phenonema is compelling to say the least. 

119

Flat Earth Community / Re: Apollo Software Programmer Margaret Hamilton

« on: July 22, 2022, 01:46:04 PM »

I'm hesitant to believe that no instruments take into account Earth's curvature.  We're talking many thousands of feet of drop per hour.   

Gravity, air pressure, etc I think are dwarfed by the effects of thousands of pounds of lift generated by these planes.

Kind of how a kite is not affected by gravity etc... At least on windy days.

120

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon landing hoax question

« on: July 19, 2022, 04:32:41 PM »

Billo, I'm sorry man - I don't have the "smoking gun" that your looking for.