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141
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« on: April 09, 2016, 04:21:37 PM »
Form the site's Wiki;
Although the sun is at all times above the earth's surface, it appears in the morning to ascend from the north-east to the noonday position, and thence to descend and disappear, or set, in the north-west. This phenomenon arises from the operation of a simple and everywhere visible law of perspective. A flock of birds, when passing over a flat or marshy country, always appears to descend is it recedes; and if the flock is extensive, the first bird appears lower or nearer to the horizon than the last, although they are at the same actual altitude above the earth immediately beneath them. When a plane flies away from an observer, without increasing or decreasing its altitude, it appears to gradually approach the horizon. In a long row of lamps, the second, supposing the observer to stand at the beginning of the series, will appear lower than the first; the third lower than the second; and so on to the end of the row; the farthest away always appearing the lowest, although each one has the same altitude; and if such a straight line of lamps could be continued far enough, the lights would at length descend, apparently, to the horizon, or to a level with the eye of the observer. This explains how the sun descends into the horizon as it recedes.

Once the lower part of the Sun meets the horizon line, however, it will intersect with the vanishing point and become lost to human perception as the sun's increasingly shallow path creates a tangent beyond the resolution of the human eye. The vanishing point is created when the perspective lines are angled less than one minute of a degree. Hence, this effectively places the vanishing point a finite distance away from the observer.

Usually it is taught in art schools that the vanishing point is an infinite distance away from the observer, as so:

Fig71.jpg

However, since man cannot perceive infinity due to human limitations, the perspective lines are modified and placed a finite distance away from the observer as so:

Fig75.jpg

This finite distance to the vanishing point is what allows ships to ascend into horizon and disappear as their hulls intersect with the vanishing point. Every receding star and celestial body in the night sky likewise disappears after intersecting with the vanishing point.


Now the real math of an FE World triangle created by the sun and two observers on the ground. Side (a) is the distance from the observer (The observer is Angle C) on the ground at the Equator to the sun directly overhead at 3,150 miles (The Sun is Angle B). Side (b) is the distance on the ground between the two observers of the sun. For this proof, observer 2 (Angle A) can be thought of as standing directly under Polaris, the farthest point it is possible to be from Observer Angle C, which is a distance of 6,300 miles. Side (c) is the distance between observer 2 and the sun, 7,043 miles.

Angle C is 90 degrees as the sun is ALWAYS directly overhead and Observer Angle A is on the same plain as Angle C. Angle A to Angle B is 26.57 degrees.  This angle is the MINIMUM angle the sun would appear above the the plain in a FE. The maximum is 90 degrees.  Which means the closer Angle A is to Angle C the the Angle to B is STEEPER.

This makes prospective as the reason the sun seems to set below the horizon on a FE plain mathematically impossible. The Sun's angle to ANY observer is NEVER close to the plain/horizon.

The of course in a FE  world, the sun, traveling in a circle over the plain would appear in the morning to be traveling SOUTH and in the evening back NORTH as seen from anyplace above the equator.

Here is the online calculator one can use to see FE's use of prospective is fantasy and mathematically impossible; http://www.csgnetwork.com/righttricalc.html

142
Flat Earth Community / Re: "Surveyors" answers to the curvature!
« on: April 09, 2016, 12:42:36 PM »
Rounder, I think you have sent Bzz into hiding and shock. When he recovers he is going to want references and citations. Then of course citations for the citations

143
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« on: April 09, 2016, 10:58:46 AM »
Flat-earthers have answered questions like this to death. You even asked the same question in two different threads. If you want an interesting answer then ask an interesting question.

So you can't explain it either.

Not proving you an answer is not evidence of an inability to answer. You can read the FAQ or use the search function. Hell, you can probably just scroll down or page back to find your answer.

The point is there is NO answer in FAQ or Wiki that is mathematical. It is ALL of it fantasy that you cannot defend. So, your fall back position is to deflect the questioner to a part of the site that is equivelent to a gerbil running on a wheel; the faster he runs the faster he gets nowhere.

Well I am not running on that wheel. Provide a mathematical solution to why an object at a fixed altitude above a plain can be seen to go below that plain in violation of all known math and geometry.
[/quote

Oh, so you're mind is already completely made up? Well, I'm glad I didn't waste my time writing you a personalized and detailed answer. After all, all the info you seek is in the wiki.

My mind is made up because I understand math. I know that 2+2 is not whatever you fantasize it to  be. I know that the angles involved in FE make it impossible for the sun or moon to set below the plain of a FE.

You FAQ and Wiki ignore a simple fact; Geometry proves an object at fixed distance above a plain cannot descend below the plain.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/righttricalc.html

As it has been pointed out, perspective cannot be the answer either. The Sun and Moon rise top first and set bottom first. In perspective both Sun and Moon would, because of the laws of math (geometry) remain above the plain and seem to become smaller, while keeping their shape. Now if you insist that the Sun is a "Spotlight" you add the problem that a spotlight appears as a disk only to those directly under the spotlight. To those east and west or north and south of Local Noon, the disk would be visibly distorted and more so at sun rise and set.

144
Flat Earth Theory / Re: gravity
« on: April 08, 2016, 10:43:26 PM »
I think most flat earthers accept their theory falls apart if they admit gravity is the force holding us on to the Earth.

The problem is if they don't believe in gravity they generally believe it's the Earth constantly accelerating upwards. They don't realise this is an even bigger problem because in less than a year we would be travelling faster than the speed of light.

They've tried to rectify this with Einstein's special relativity but have run in to an even bigger problem that they simply don't address.
Believing that the Earth is experiencing length contraction (so it won't pass the speed of light) they would have to accept that the mass of every object on Earth is approaching infinity.
Unless of course they believe that the palm of their hand has greater mass than a super massive black hole.

In general they shy away from math like a rabid dog does water. Mathematically FE doesn't hold up and they know it.

Please elaborate which math doesn't work on the flat earth.

Geometry and Trigonometry for starters. Both branches of math prove beyond all doubt that the Earth is a sphere, yet it is ignored here out of hand.

You were shown in detail what the math proves and your response was along the lines of "what are you saying." My grade school grandchildren got the point.

Now of course you are going to dismiss this math and a thousand years and more of its proof because, 1. You really don't understand, nor do you want to. Or 2. You just like to think you are causing problems.

If it is point 2. you are an abject failure. I have taken each opportunity  presented to do more research on math, science, experimentation, and history. Learning is fun and helpful to my writing.

Have a nice evening, I must go, as I have a lot yet to do.

145
Flat Earth Community / Re: "Surveyors" answers to the curvature!
« on: April 08, 2016, 09:34:25 PM »
Wild guesses. That sums up FE perfectly

How does it change the fact that you are not able to provide credible sources? I recommend you consult Admiral of the Ocean Sea: A Life of Christopher Columbus yourself, instead of reading the interpretation of some random author who is not from the field and haven't learned how to provide quotations for his review.

The source IS creditable. You just don't like the results. As proof here is another link;
http://www.history.com/topics/exploration/christopher-columbus

I'm betting  you find some minor fault with this too.

Minor fault like reviewing a book without quoting the pages you've consulted? You need to follow some rules to write something. How difficult is to grasp that?
Look, stop looking for science blogs/sites. Do you think History.com is the final authority? It's the same commom sense. I ask you to go after the first source you provided in order to be coherent. But somehow you decided to change the line again. Stop playing a fool.

SOP knee jerk response. Well I DID call it.  Did you try this in school?

146
Flat Earth Theory / Re: gravity
« on: April 08, 2016, 09:27:08 PM »
I think most flat earthers accept their theory falls apart if they admit gravity is the force holding us on to the Earth.

The problem is if they don't believe in gravity they generally believe it's the Earth constantly accelerating upwards. They don't realise this is an even bigger problem because in less than a year we would be travelling faster than the speed of light.

They've tried to rectify this with Einstein's special relativity but have run in to an even bigger problem that they simply don't address.
Believing that the Earth is experiencing length contraction (so it won't pass the speed of light) they would have to accept that the mass of every object on Earth is approaching infinity.
Unless of course they believe that the palm of their hand has greater mass than a super massive black hole.

In general they shy away from math like a rabid dog does water. Mathematically FE doesn't hold up and they know it.

147
Flat Earth Community / Re: "Surveyors" answers to the curvature!
« on: April 08, 2016, 09:23:38 PM »
Wild guesses. That sums up FE perfectly

How does it change the fact that you are not able to provide credible sources? I recommend you consult Admiral of the Ocean Sea: A Life of Christopher Columbus yourself, instead of reading the interpretation of some random author who is not from the field and haven't learned how to provide quotations for his review.

The source IS creditable. You just don't like the results. As proof here is another link;
http://www.history.com/topics/exploration/christopher-columbus

I'm betting  you find some minor fault with this too.

148
Flat Earth Community / Re: "Surveyors" answers to the curvature!
« on: April 08, 2016, 08:25:08 PM »
It's so difficult to make a point rather than copy and paste a random link and say "look, it is here. Dont you read?" lol Provide direct quotations oh wait.. you cant.

You asked him to PROVIDE EVIDENCE (your words).  In most people's understanding of that request, simply telling you something would not suffice: one needs to link to an authoritative source.  If I told you that the people in my town lived to be a thousand years old, and you said "Provide Evidence", I would assume you wanted newspaper articles, census data, birth and death certificates, and the like, not merely me saying it again with different words. 

In any case, let's do BOTH.  I'll give you the link to an article which you could read, and I suppose I can read the relevant parts to you: "it was widely known by the 15th Century that the Earth is spherical. The question was, how big is the sphere?...Columbus preferred the values given by the medieval Persian geographer Alfraganus)...That was Columbus’s first error, which he compounded with a second: he assumed that the Persian was using the 4 856-foot Roman mile; in fact, Alfraganus meant the 7 091-foot Arabic mile...Taken together, the two miscalculations effectively reduced the planetary waistline to 16,305 nautical miles, down from the actual 21,600 or so, an error of 25 percent...And then there was the third error...Through a complicated chain of reasoning that mixed Ptolemy, Marinus of Tyre, and Marco Polo with some “corrections” of his own, Columbus calculated that he would find Japan at 85º west longitude (rather than 140° east)—moving it more than 8,000 miles closer to Cape St. Vincent."

I read the article. The author makes a lot of assumptions and don't back any one of them. He even made a map on his own as you can see the reference at the end lol.
Here is his background as a map maker: IEEE Spectrum “Tech Talk” contributor Douglas McCormick is a New York City-based freelance writer and communications consultant specializing in technology and life science. He has been editor or editorial director of such publications as PM360 (for healthcare marketers), BioTechniques (for molecular biology researchers), Pharmaceutical Technology, and Nature Publishing Company’s Bio/Technology (now called Nature Biotechnology). He was founder, CEO, and CTO of Physician Verification Services (an internet based healthcare marketing start-up) and, earlier, corporate director of scientific communications at SmithKline Beecham and computer science editor at Hayden Book Company.

For the part "it was widely known by the 15th Century that the Earth is spherical. The question was, how big is the sphere?", I wonder who posed this question... maybe he himself? And I'd like to know where he took this whole statement from (which page on the book he reviewed and from where the original author took it from). There are also other wild guesses. Not worth mentioning though.

Wild guesses. That sums up FE perfectly

149
Flat Earth Theory / Re: gravity
« on: April 08, 2016, 06:17:22 PM »
How convenient.

If you would read the linked material, you will see it was anything but.  There were only three lunar missions with rovers: Apollo 15-17.  On 15 the motor to tilt the camera burned out, so no footage.  On 16 the crew parked the rover in the wrong spot, so Fendell's pre-calculated camera angles were useless with was no time for new calculations, so no footage.  17 was the last chance, and they got it.
Again, how convenient.

Just as inane as when "Little Truth Found Here" said it and not even original.
And he has no idea even what keeps his feet on the ground! Oh, the GRAVITY of the situation!

I may not have my own original theory but I certainly know it isn't some magic force described as an inherent property of mass capable of exerting forces through a vacuum, that sometimes pulls objects towards each other and sometimes makes them rotate each other perpetually.

I don't care what you think about me or my beliefs, and quite honestly, I feel no desire to even debate or discuss anything with you any longer. It's a never ending loop that is about pleasurable as a root canal.

In other words  I don't believe in math and science, so don't try and educate me

150
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« on: April 08, 2016, 06:00:18 PM »
Flat-earthers have answered questions like this to death. You even asked the same question in two different threads. If you want an interesting answer then ask an interesting question.

So you can't explain it either.

Not proving you an answer is not evidence of an inability to answer. You can read the FAQ or use the search function. Hell, you can probably just scroll down or page back to find your answer.

The point is there is NO answer in FAQ or Wiki that is mathematical. It is ALL of it fantasy that you cannot defend. So, your fall back position is to deflect the questioner to a part of the site that is equivelent to a gerbil running on a wheel; the faster he runs the faster he gets nowhere.

Well I am not running on that wheel. Provide a mathematical solution to why an object at a fixed altitude above a plain can be seen to go below that plain in violation of all known math and geometry. 

151
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« on: April 08, 2016, 04:16:24 PM »
Sun setting, not fading, setting, through an inversion layer over the sea.

http://www.atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/gfim13.htm

Thats the point. An object above a flat surface at a fixed hight cannot be seen to set (go below) said surface. Geometry proves it to be impossible.

The problem is FE supporters are scared to death of grade school math. And they cherry pick ideas to fit their mantra of "Believe what you see." Anything you see that is counter to their belief is dismissed as irrelevant.

152
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« on: April 08, 2016, 02:08:57 PM »
So how can there be a sunset or sunrise?
--- because light does not travel forever and you can not see forever. 

Even a spotlight turned at a right angle to the viewer is visible to a viewer miles away, and the sun is a -27 magnitude star or for those that use watts, 380 Septillion watts of light. Oh and in lumens it is 6.84X1033 lumens.
Which all boils down to this:  1 cloud in the sky is enough to fully obfuscate the sun's rays.

Light DOES travel forever, it just spreads out, Google Inverse Square Law.  Said law says that SPOTLIGHT sun at 3000 miles altitude would NOT  have the same brightness on the same meridian north or of a position directly below the sun. The lumens striking the meridian would decrease by the square of the distance north and south of directly below the sun.  However the spotlight of the local noon would be seen as a shaft of light from anywhere on a FE. Google Search Lights and WWII. Those beams, though aimed up at very high angles could be been from hundreds of miles away and they were only 525,000 lumens, a percentage so small in comparison to the sun that my calculator says 0%

153
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« on: April 08, 2016, 01:37:45 PM »
Flat-earthers have answered questions like this to death. You even asked the same question in two different threads. If you want an interesting answer then ask an interesting question.

So you can't explain it either.

Even a spotlight turned at a right angle to the viewer is visible to a viewer miles away, and the sun is a -27 magnitude star or for those that use watts, 380 Septillion watts of light. Oh and in lumens it is 6.84X1033 lumens.

But even that begs the question of why a spotlight sun is ALWAYS viewed as round even at the horizon.

Now those are interesting questions.

But what you mean is a question that doesn't involve math and science.

154
5 days and more than 30 views and not one single FE person can respond? Well I knew when I posted the question it could not be reasonable responded to, but I was hoping for some entertaining responses.
Have you tried the wiki? That's the usual response.

The problem with wiki link is the link ignores the math (grade school geometry) proving on a FE Polaris is ALWAYS WELL ABOVE the plain and refraction, in this case from a fast medium to a slow, (vacuum to air) bends the light up, making appear even higher over the FE plain.

So your wiki doesn't cover the question and is the reason I posted it here. And then I had to point out that the question had been read at least 30 times without any response in order to get a response.

From being on this site and other site it becomes clear that math is to avoided at all costs in dealing with FE believers.


155
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon Landing
« on: April 08, 2016, 11:19:43 AM »
I have noticed on other threads the demand by FE posters for citations and specific evidence for anything challenging the FE myth.

On this thread, it has been stated that there is no need to prove assertions  the Moon landing were faked or that all Space Agencies are liars, which indicates to me at least that this site is more about fantasy and entertainment than anything else

156
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« on: April 08, 2016, 11:11:29 AM »
Again, 5 days on the board and more that 30 views and nada for responses.

157
5 days and more than 30 views and not one single FE person can respond? Well I knew when I posted the question it could not be reasonable responded to, but I was hoping for some entertaining responses.

158
Flat Earth Community / Re: "Surveyors" answers to the curvature!
« on: April 07, 2016, 09:47:28 PM »
It means, shock of shocks, what it says. Columbus knew the Earth was round, but he didn't have the correct measurements.

You really don't have a useful grasp of the meaning of English words do you?

Provide evidence (3). You have failed so far. Yes, my English is to be put in question now. lol

It     is   in    the     link    I    provided     above.

I wrote it as slowly as I could so you could follow what I said

159
Flat Earth Community / Re: "Surveyors" answers to the curvature!
« on: April 07, 2016, 09:04:07 PM »
It means, shock of shocks, what it says. Columbus knew the Earth was round, but he didn't have the correct measurements.

You really don't have a useful grasp of the meaning of English words do you?

160
Quote
...ether scalar wave (sometimes going beyond the speed of light): it... /quote] ::)

Sure he did.

Care to post the math involved that would back this up?

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