Offline Round fact

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Why a sunrise and sunset?
« on: April 04, 2016, 04:00:21 PM »
FET says the sun is 3k above the surface. That means that from any point on earth the minimum angle  of the sun above the horizon/surface is 9.02 degrees.

Refraction says the light from the sun will react UP not down

So how can there be a sunset or sunrise?

Offline Round fact

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Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2016, 11:11:29 AM »
Again, 5 days on the board and more that 30 views and nada for responses.

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Offline Pongo

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Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2016, 12:32:26 PM »
Flat-earthers have answered questions like this to death. You even asked the same question in two different threads. If you want an interesting answer then ask an interesting question.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2016, 12:37:25 PM »
Again, 5 days on the board and more that 30 views and nada for responses.
:P Tried the Wiki? :P

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Offline Rounder

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Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2016, 12:43:06 PM »
If you want an interesting answer then ask an interesting question.

If a question that goes to the very heart of the "look out your window" approach to the world isn't an interesting question, I don't know what is.  Flat Earthers tell us over and over that the primary justification for the earth being flat is that it looks flat.  Well, the sun and the moon and the stars all look like they go below the horizon.  I find it fascinating that one "looks like" is the foundation for an entire edifice of scientific and historical revisionism, while the other "looks like" is rejected out of hand, and great energy is expended in explaining how what it looks like and what it is are very different.
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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2016, 12:45:39 PM »
Flat-earthers have answered questions like this to death. You even asked the same question in two different threads. If you want an interesting answer then ask an interesting question.
And still not had an answer that goes anywhere near explaining what we see!
How can perspective explain how a sun that never gets anywhere near the horizon appear to sink below it? Or do you live on a different world to the rest of us? You don't by any chance live on the late Terry Pratchett's Discworld do you, though even there he had the sun actually setting!

Offline Round fact

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Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2016, 01:37:45 PM »
Flat-earthers have answered questions like this to death. You even asked the same question in two different threads. If you want an interesting answer then ask an interesting question.

So you can't explain it either.

Even a spotlight turned at a right angle to the viewer is visible to a viewer miles away, and the sun is a -27 magnitude star or for those that use watts, 380 Septillion watts of light. Oh and in lumens it is 6.84X1033 lumens.

But even that begs the question of why a spotlight sun is ALWAYS viewed as round even at the horizon.

Now those are interesting questions.

But what you mean is a question that doesn't involve math and science.

Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2016, 01:45:24 PM »
So how can there be a sunset or sunrise?
--- because light does not travel forever and you can not see forever. 



Even a spotlight turned at a right angle to the viewer is visible to a viewer miles away, and the sun is a -27 magnitude star or for those that use watts, 380 Septillion watts of light. Oh and in lumens it is 6.84X1033 lumens.
Which all boils down to this:  1 cloud in the sky is enough to fully obfuscate the sun's rays.
watch?v=xhcVJcINzn8

Offline Round fact

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Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2016, 02:08:57 PM »
So how can there be a sunset or sunrise?
--- because light does not travel forever and you can not see forever. 

Even a spotlight turned at a right angle to the viewer is visible to a viewer miles away, and the sun is a -27 magnitude star or for those that use watts, 380 Septillion watts of light. Oh and in lumens it is 6.84X1033 lumens.
Which all boils down to this:  1 cloud in the sky is enough to fully obfuscate the sun's rays.

Light DOES travel forever, it just spreads out, Google Inverse Square Law.  Said law says that SPOTLIGHT sun at 3000 miles altitude would NOT  have the same brightness on the same meridian north or of a position directly below the sun. The lumens striking the meridian would decrease by the square of the distance north and south of directly below the sun.  However the spotlight of the local noon would be seen as a shaft of light from anywhere on a FE. Google Search Lights and WWII. Those beams, though aimed up at very high angles could be been from hundreds of miles away and they were only 525,000 lumens, a percentage so small in comparison to the sun that my calculator says 0%

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2016, 03:58:58 PM »
Sun setting, not fading, setting, through an inversion layer over the sea.

http://www.atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/gfim13.htm
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 04:01:04 PM by Jura-Glenlivet »
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

Offline Round fact

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Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2016, 04:16:24 PM »
Sun setting, not fading, setting, through an inversion layer over the sea.

http://www.atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/gfim13.htm

Thats the point. An object above a flat surface at a fixed hight cannot be seen to set (go below) said surface. Geometry proves it to be impossible.

The problem is FE supporters are scared to death of grade school math. And they cherry pick ideas to fit their mantra of "Believe what you see." Anything you see that is counter to their belief is dismissed as irrelevant.

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Offline Pongo

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Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2016, 04:47:11 PM »
Flat-earthers have answered questions like this to death. You even asked the same question in two different threads. If you want an interesting answer then ask an interesting question.

So you can't explain it either.

Not proving you an answer is not evidence of an inability to answer. You can read the FAQ or use the search function. Hell, you can probably just scroll down or page back to find your answer.

Offline Round fact

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Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2016, 06:00:18 PM »
Flat-earthers have answered questions like this to death. You even asked the same question in two different threads. If you want an interesting answer then ask an interesting question.

So you can't explain it either.

Not proving you an answer is not evidence of an inability to answer. You can read the FAQ or use the search function. Hell, you can probably just scroll down or page back to find your answer.

The point is there is NO answer in FAQ or Wiki that is mathematical. It is ALL of it fantasy that you cannot defend. So, your fall back position is to deflect the questioner to a part of the site that is equivelent to a gerbil running on a wheel; the faster he runs the faster he gets nowhere.

Well I am not running on that wheel. Provide a mathematical solution to why an object at a fixed altitude above a plain can be seen to go below that plain in violation of all known math and geometry. 

Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2016, 11:01:23 PM »
Light DOES travel
---SNIP---
 to the sun that my calculator says 0%
1 cloud blocks the sun's rays. 

Can you imagine what 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 clouds might do??????????????????? 
watch?v=xhcVJcINzn8

Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2016, 11:20:29 PM »
Light DOES travel
---SNIP---
 to the sun that my calculator says 0%
1 cloud blocks the sun's rays. 

Can you imagine what 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 clouds might do???????????????????


You mean how when you see someone walking into mist they disappear from their feet up to their head as they get further in. Oh wait, that's when they walk over a hill and down the other side.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2016, 11:39:30 PM »
So how can there be a sunset or sunrise?
--- because light does not travel forever and you can not see forever. 

Even a spotlight turned at a right angle to the viewer is visible to a viewer miles away, and the sun is a -27 magnitude star or for those that use watts, 380 Septillion watts of light. Oh and in lumens it is 6.84X1033 lumens.
Which all boils down to this:  1 cloud in the sky is enough to fully obfuscate the sun's rays.
Sunset is not caused by
clouds fully obfuscating the sun's rays
A cloud can block the direct rays of the sun, but even the heaviest of clouds lets some light through and around!

We get sunsets on the clearest of days AND the sun sets at a very predictable time - within a minute or so! I think this alone it sufficient to show that obscuring by the atmosphere is NOT the cause of the sun setting.
What is more is the the sun quite clearly appears to set behind the horizon.

Sometimes I find it hard to believe that any Flat Earther has ever really seen a sunrise or sunset.
Wider Spacing
Are you really going to claim that the sun in these photos is simply being hidden by the "dirty atmosphere" fully obfuscating the sun! Yes, there are clouds, but the sun is going down behind that horizon - my eyes tell me so.
Yes, I took those photos at Weipa on Cape York in North Queensland at 6:20 PM and 6:24 PM on Aug 28, 2003

I do really think that someone needs to visit an eye-doctor fast!

As I (and numerous others) have said of flat earthers. You claim that "the earth looks flat", then ALL other observations, experiments and measurements have to be distorted to suit that ONE observation! Talk about brainwashed closed minds.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2016, 11:43:39 PM »
Light DOES travel
---SNIP---
 to the sun that my calculator says 0%
1 cloud blocks the sun's rays. 

Can you imagine what 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 clouds might do???????????????????
The sun sets of even when there is not a cloud in the sky! So stop you stupid babbling about clouds.

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Offline Pongo

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Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2016, 06:29:15 AM »
Flat-earthers have answered questions like this to death. You even asked the same question in two different threads. If you want an interesting answer then ask an interesting question.

So you can't explain it either.

Not proving you an answer is not evidence of an inability to answer. You can read the FAQ or use the search function. Hell, you can probably just scroll down or page back to find your answer.

The point is there is NO answer in FAQ or Wiki that is mathematical. It is ALL of it fantasy that you cannot defend. So, your fall back position is to deflect the questioner to a part of the site that is equivelent to a gerbil running on a wheel; the faster he runs the faster he gets nowhere.

Well I am not running on that wheel. Provide a mathematical solution to why an object at a fixed altitude above a plain can be seen to go below that plain in violation of all known math and geometry.

Oh, so your mind is already completely made up? Well, I'm glad I didn't waste my time writing you a personalized and detailed answer. After all, all the info you seek is in the wiki.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 01:40:11 PM by Pongo »

Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2016, 08:59:13 AM »
Flat-earthers have answered questions like this to death. You even asked the same question in two different threads. If you want an interesting answer then ask an interesting question.

So you can't explain it either.

Not proving you an answer is not evidence of an inability to answer. You can read the FAQ or use the search function. Hell, you can probably just scroll down or page back to find your answer.

The point is there is NO answer in FAQ or Wiki that is mathematical. It is ALL of it fantasy that you cannot defend. So, your fall back position is to deflect the questioner to a part of the site that is equivelent to a gerbil running on a wheel; the faster he runs the faster he gets nowhere.

Well I am not running on that wheel. Provide a mathematical solution to why an object at a fixed altitude above a plain can be seen to go below that plain in violation of all known math and geometry.
[/quote

Oh, so you're mind is already completely made up? Well, I'm glad I didn't waste my time writing you a personalized and detailed answer. After all, all the info you seek is in the wiki.

I've read the flat earth wiki answer and it doesn't explain why the sun disappears from the bottom to the top.

If it's perspective then you'd expect the entire object to continuously get smaller.
If it's simply being blocked by clouds you'd expect the entire object to dim, more or less, uniformly.

This isn't what we see.
We see exactly what we would expect if we were on a spinning globe.


Oh and another thing. Your lack of an answer IS evidence that you have no ability to answer the question, it just isn't proof.

Offline Round fact

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Re: Why a sunrise and sunset?
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2016, 10:58:46 AM »
Flat-earthers have answered questions like this to death. You even asked the same question in two different threads. If you want an interesting answer then ask an interesting question.

So you can't explain it either.

Not proving you an answer is not evidence of an inability to answer. You can read the FAQ or use the search function. Hell, you can probably just scroll down or page back to find your answer.

The point is there is NO answer in FAQ or Wiki that is mathematical. It is ALL of it fantasy that you cannot defend. So, your fall back position is to deflect the questioner to a part of the site that is equivelent to a gerbil running on a wheel; the faster he runs the faster he gets nowhere.

Well I am not running on that wheel. Provide a mathematical solution to why an object at a fixed altitude above a plain can be seen to go below that plain in violation of all known math and geometry.
[/quote

Oh, so you're mind is already completely made up? Well, I'm glad I didn't waste my time writing you a personalized and detailed answer. After all, all the info you seek is in the wiki.

My mind is made up because I understand math. I know that 2+2 is not whatever you fantasize it to  be. I know that the angles involved in FE make it impossible for the sun or moon to set below the plain of a FE.

You FAQ and Wiki ignore a simple fact; Geometry proves an object at fixed distance above a plain cannot descend below the plain.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/righttricalc.html

As it has been pointed out, perspective cannot be the answer either. The Sun and Moon rise top first and set bottom first. In perspective both Sun and Moon would, because of the laws of math (geometry) remain above the plain and seem to become smaller, while keeping their shape. Now if you insist that the Sun is a "Spotlight" you add the problem that a spotlight appears as a disk only to those directly under the spotlight. To those east and west or north and south of Local Noon, the disk would be visibly distorted and more so at sun rise and set.