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1
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Ring laser gyros
« on: September 21, 2021, 08:29:05 PM »
What is your point?

You must be joking, of course.

Here is the point: you are using the wrong formula for the RLGs and the MGX.

What's the wrong formula you're referring to and who is using it?

2
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 21, 2021, 08:52:35 AM »
If those excess Covid deaths are erroneously counted, then they may be attributed to the general increase in excess deaths that we know existed as the time. This other factor of a general increase of deaths during the pandemic ruins your argument.

If? What if they are not erroneously counted. Lots of learned folks are worried that we have undercounted.

And yeah, lots of people have died last year and this year because of covid. From it directly and indirectly. From it directly, as a contributing factor, because they are not vaxed, because they didn’t seek medical attention out of fear of getting it, canceled procedures, overwhelmed healthcare system, lost jobs, depression, addiction. The list goes on. Pretty much pandemic 101 results.

So what’s your point?

3
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Civilians in Space
« on: September 20, 2021, 07:18:13 PM »
Jesus H Christ?

Why do they have to be in space?

Cause they said so?

No.

Wy can't they be in space? Because you say so?

Cause I saw a video prior to them going in space that demonstrated much the same type of behavior of the hair and all the other shit on display, except it wasn't videoed in space.

What video was that? I haven't seen any video of them in space prior to them being in space. Please post or point to what you're referring to. Or are you just making this up?

4
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 20, 2021, 07:07:13 PM »
If you can get the disease after the shot, then you are not being administered a vaccine.

Period.

So I guess according to you the measles vaccine isn't a vaccine?

"- One dose of MMR vaccine is 93% effective against measles, 78% effective against mumps, and 97% effective against rubella.
- Two doses of MMR vaccine are 97% effective against measles and 88% effective against mumps.
"
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html

Even Polio vaccines aren't 100%, damn close, but not 100%. Therefore, according to you, the Polio vaccine is not a vaccine?

5
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
« on: September 17, 2021, 08:23:24 PM »
30 hours of silence from the Inspiration4 crew after the launch. Only a few pictures of the crew in the dragon capsule. No non-fisheye-lens images of earth. They aren't giving me what I'd hoped for to have a conversation in this forum on this topic. Still waiting...

SpaceX announced that the crew would give a live update from space at 5 p.m. Eastern time. That will be shown on YouTube:

Inspiration4 | In-Flight Update with the Crew



According to the NYT, they've been talking to ground control (obviously) and:

- The crew answered questions from cancer patients at St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital in Memphis. St. Jude released recorded excerpts from the chat on Twitter.
- The crew members also had a call with the actor Tom Cruise.

Tom Cruise? I guess maybe because he is supposed to go up to the ISS to film some bits for MI 100, or whatever they're up to now. Why the otherwise radio silence? Anyone's guess. My guess is that Elon's sense of promotion is to not flood the airwaves with updates, but create big splashes with just a few so the world begs for more and stays intrigued.

6
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 08:27:57 AM »
That's an easy one. The person died of the mechanism of sepsis, but died of a disease called cancer. Two different things. No one is confusing "sepsis deaths" as the disease they died from.

In the case of people with multiple diseases, it's usually clear that they died of one thing as the primary disease of death. If another disease may or may not have been contributing, and it's vague, obviously just note it down for further research and don't make that data part of a sensational article claiming a pandemic of epic proportions and scream for worldwide economic shutdowns.

You're still missing the point: Would these kids, in your RI example, not have died if they didn't have Covid?

7
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 06:36:39 AM »
It's possible to figure out the primary cause of someone's death. They figured it out for these children:

https://www.golocalprov.com/news/3-children-with-covid-have-now-died-in-ri-state-has-3rd-highest-rate-in-u.s



If Covid is not the primary cause of death, why list it and publicize it as a Covid death and put it in State records as a Covid death and broadcast it all over the television in a Covid death segment other than for political or scare-tactic reasons? This is duplicitous, unethical behavior.

If they do want to collect secondary conditions they could just be honest about it and break it down instead of presenting it as "Covid Deaths". Presenting it as "Covid Deaths" leads one to assume that it was the lethal primary cause of death. But seeing the statistics of people who died of Cancer with asymptomatic Covid isn't sensational enough for their dirty agenda.

You have to look at this critically, which you are not. Example, I had a friend who died from sepsis, the primary cause of death. However, the sepsis was brought on by the fact that she had a cancerous colon tumor that perforated (ruptured, so to speak) and spread throughout her abdominal cavity. Which, in turn, caused her system to go septic. So the primary cause of death on the death certificate was logged as "sepsis". That's what killed her. But her perforated colon tumor is what caused the sepsis, the contributing factor. She wouldn't have died from sepsis if her cancerous tumor hadn't existed and did what it did. She is logged, statistically, as a "cancer death".

From the CDC (Their bolding):

Cause of Death and COVID-19
When COVID-19 is reported as a cause of death on the death certificate, it is coded and counted as a death due to COVID-19.
COVID-19 should not be reported on the death certificate if it did not cause or contribute to the death.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/cause-of-death-data-quality.pdf

So your point is understood. But the point is, would these kids, in your RI example, not have died if they didn't have Covid? That's what really matters.

8
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 03:52:35 AM »
Did you even read your quote? She relented wanted to cut out the gunshot victims and motor vehicle accidents but keep anything else slightly biological.

You stumble into the hospital extremely overweight, have stage 4 cancer and a heart attack? Covid, obviously. You're an Illinois Covid victim. This is just more affirmation on what they're doing. The quote literally says that they aren't putting controls on it outside of the 'obvious' gunshot victims.

It doesn't matter if it was a year ago. If the statistics have been wrong for a year that's pretty bad.

So let me get this straight. Let's flip the script and put this a different way. What's the preferred definition of dying of Covid that you would accept? What would you want to see on a death certificate that says, "Yep, died of Covid, let's count it."?

9
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 03:35:20 AM »
So it took news articles and national embarrassment to get them to remove it. It was only found out by the reporters because the victim was a special coronavirus victim in their 20's and the motorcycle crash was inadvertnanly mentioned by a doctor, the Orange County Health Officer, who absurdly proceeded to defend it. I consider the action of backtracking on your lies to be irrelevant. I can see that you are pretty desperate though.

Health officials are clearly stating that they consider it to be a Covid death even if there is a clear alternate cause:

https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-classified/

Quote
IDPH Director explains how Covid deaths are classified

Still, the department's Director, Dr. Ngozi Ezike used part of her time during Sunday's health briefing to explain how the department determines if a death is related to Coronavirus.

Essentially, Dr. Ezike explained that anyone who passes away after testing positive for the virus is included in that category.

"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined.

She reiterated Illinois health officials will continue to work vigorously to protect the state's most vulnerable populations.

The Illinois Department of Public Health says directly how it works. Not a coincidence that it's happening in multiple states and they are attributing it to CDC guidance.

Here's what she said in May of 2020:

There are also some additional deaths that happen in someone who happened to be COVID positive, but where the COVID infection had nothing to do with the deaths,” she said. “So we are at IDPH trying to remove those obvious cases where the COVID diagnosis was not the reason for the death. If there was a gunshot wound, if there was a motor vehicle accident, we know that that was not related to the COVID positive status.

“We are trying to make sure that things that aren’t related at all to the COVID diagnosis are removed, but if someone has another illness, like heart disease, and then had a stroke or other event, it’s not as easy to separate that and say COVID didn’t exacerbate that existing illness. That would not be removed from the count,” she added.

Above all else, Ezike said that the state is striving for as much accuracy as possible, presenting a true picture of what is going on statewide when reporting on the number of cases and fatalities related to the virus."

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/dr-ngozi-ezike-refutes-notion-that-illinois-is-over-counting-covid-19-deaths/2270810/

Timing and context is everything. We're going back more than a year. Remember way back in like April of 2020 we were just figuring out this thing was airborne? So much has happened in the past 18 months it's mind numbing.

10
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 02:59:36 AM »
Florida; a non-hypothetical motorcycle accident counted as a Covid death this time:

Update on your motorcycle case, not to mention over a year old, a scant 4 months into the pandemic:

During a press conference July 20, DeSantis pointed to the case of the motorcyclist, saying:

The other thing I’ve asked the Department of Health to look at is there was a case here in Central Florida where somebody, I think they were in their twenties, and they were in a motorcycle accident, and that was counted as a coronavirus death. And a lot of people are like, “How is that possible? You get hit by a car and then you’re attributing it to coronavirus?” And so I want them to go back and look. I think though, the reason that’s the case is because what [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] has said is anybody that tests positive, if they then die, that’s a death amongst cases.

Contrary to what DeSantis stated, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) guidance doesn’t direct caregivers to list all deaths as COVID-19 deaths simply because the disease was detected in the decedent. Instead, it instructs caregivers to list various factors contributing to death in appropriate sections of death certificates. In other words, it does not state that anyone who suffers an unnatural death such as a traffic accident should be listed as a COVID-19-caused death if they also happen to test positive, even if the disease didn’t cause to their death.

It does appear to the case, however, that a motorcyclist who was killed in a traffic accident also tested positive for COVID-19, and was initially listed among Florida’s COVID-19-related deaths. But officials from the Florida Department of Health said that person has since been removed from the count.

The story about the motorcyclist was initially reported by WOFL, an Orlando-based TV news station, which learned the information in a phone conversation with Orange County Health Officer Dr. Raul Pino. In the July 17 article, WOFL reported:

A person who died in a motorcycle accident was added to Florida’s COVID-19 death count, according to a state health official.

FOX 35 News found this out after asking Orange County Health Officer Dr. Raul Pino whether two coronavirus victims who were in their 20s had any underlying conditions. One of his answers surprised us.

“The first one didn’t have any. He died in a motorcycle accident,” Pino said.

Dr. Pino was asked if the man’s data was removed.

“I don’t think so. I have to double-check,” Pino said. “We were arguing, discussing, or trying to argue with the state. Not because of the numbers — it’s 100…it doesn’t make any difference if it’s 99 — but the fact that the individual didn’t die from COVID-19…died in the crash. But you could actually argue that it could have been the COVID-19 that caused him to crash. I don’t know the conclusion of that one.”

WOFL updated the story two days later to indicate that the motorcyclist death had been removed from the COVID-19 death tally. Kent Donahue, a spokesman for Pino’s office, confirmed that to be the case in a phone interview with Snopes. We therefore list this claim as “Outdated.”


As of 9/1/21, Oregon has had 3,538 deaths attributed to Covid in some manner since 3/2020.
As of 9/1/21, Florida has had 50,811 deaths attributed to Covid in some manner since 3/2020.

Florida removed the 2 motorcycle deaths from the count above a year ago.

So right now, as it stands, you've presented 2-5 deaths attributed to Covid that perhaps shouldn't have been counted out of 670,000. You're down to around 669,995 that are still counted.
You're on a roll, keep chipping away.

11
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 16, 2021, 10:59:51 PM »
Quote from: Shifter
I know Tom loves to get his news from random social media memes or Cucker Tarlson but the claim that people who die in traffic accidents but tested positive for covid recently are being counted in the covid death toll is complete and utter BS

Yet that's how Oregon Health Authority is reporting the deaths, and claim that they are following CDC guidance:

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/questions-over-the-accuracy-of-how-the-state-tracks-covid-deaths/283-0b1b7b6c-695e-4313-92cf-a4cfd7510721

The article is from a year ago. Do they still count covid deaths in the way described in the article?

As of 9/1/21, Oregon has had 3,538 deaths attributed to Covid in some manner since 3/2020. Is Oregon really a good example of anything considering we're talking about numbers nearing 700,000.

12
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 16, 2021, 08:06:35 PM »
Hmm. Yes, I think it’s probably best not to feed Troll and Troller. But for all their attempts to divert, the data I’ve presented on the impact of Covid is pretty clear. As is the cherry picking dishonesty required to arrive at the “99.7%” survival rate.

Incorrect. You are the one cherry picking, by telling us that we need to only look at the survival rate for the critically ill. Not everyone is very ill. The survival rate is very high for the general population. The people dying of this are the sick and feeble. From your own source:

https://fsph.iupui.edu/news-events/news/death-rate-covid-statewide-study.html

Quote
Nursing home residents represented 54.9% of Indiana’s deaths at this date.

Using the non-institutionalized population, researchers determined the overall IFR for Indiana to be 0.26%.

The IFR for Hoosiers who are 12 to 40 years old is 0.01% (children under 12 were not included in the study). That rate increases to 0.12% for those who are 40 to 59 years old.

IFR = Infection Fatality Rate

0.26% IFR = 99.74 survival rate for non-institutionalized
0.01% IFR = 99.99 survival rate for ages 12 to 40
0.12% IFR = 99.88 survival rate for ages 40 to 59

Seems odd that you say someone is cherry-picking when you suspiciously left this out from your link:

"The study found that age, more than race or sex, determines how deadly the virus is.  People over 60 years of age had an IFR almost 2%, or 1 death for every 50 people who get infected. This IFR is approximately 2.5 times deadlier than seasonal flu for the same population."

So to add to your list:

2% IFR = 98% survival rate for ages 60 and over

That's a lot higher than 0.26%, 0.01&, & 0.12%

Why did you leave out the over 60 group from your IFR list above?

13
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Apollo and Moon Orbits on FE
« on: September 16, 2021, 06:26:44 PM »
A tremendous amount to unpack. Just check out the skipper's, Jarle Andhøy, wiki page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarle_Andh%C3%B8y

Seems like he got busted for a lot of things, in the north polar region, in the south polar region, and places in-between. So I would say this is a terrible example of "No one has been to Antarctica since Byrd and no one can go there..."

But this Andhøy character is quite something. Good read.

14
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 15, 2021, 10:04:46 PM »
I wonder if this means Tucker has to get tested daily?

15
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 15, 2021, 08:47:40 PM »
You consistently ignore available statistics on excess deaths.

Quote
(Portland, OR) — Health officials say there was an increase in deaths from non-COVID-19 related conditions during the pandemic. A Providence Health study found unplanned hospitalizations were cut up to 50-percent while deaths increased 20-percent. People held off going to hospitals for heart issues, strokes and care for chronic conditions due to fear they’d get COVID-19. Doctors say people need to know that medical clinics, hospitals, and emergency rooms are safe places to get medical care.

People being afraid of going to the hospital means that there were excess deaths.

No doubt people were (are) afraid. And the ones listed above are exactly the folks who have co-morbidities that would further scare them with the notion of gasping for air, like they are drowning, and dying on a ventilator because of covid.

What's the breakdown of excess non-covid deaths due to fear of hospitals versus excess deaths due to covid?

And wouldn't vaccination, lowering covid numbers in general, help to lower that fear level?

16
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 15, 2021, 08:36:05 AM »
I did look it up. The FDA seems to disagree with you. You seemed to have missed what was posted before, from the FDA as part of their approval (My bolding, and a little red, this time so maybe you won't miss it):

"The FDA-approved COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) and the EUA-authorized Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine have the same formulation and can be used interchangeably to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series.1"
https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download

Your understanding of same formulation is incorrect. The FDA defines their meaning of same formulation right here on their definitions page:

I’m not sure why we are going over this again. It’s not “my understanding”. The FDA literally states, as seen above for the third time:

"The FDA-approved COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) and the EUA-authorized Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine have the same formulation and can be used interchangeably to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series.1"

I really don’t get how their usage of the words “have the same formulation and can be used interchangeably”, somehow is lost on you.

It seems you disagree with the FDA and their approval of the Pfizer vax. Good for you. Have fun with that.

And I have no idea where you’re going with all the Birx quotes and such.

The bottom line, if you don’t agree with the FDA and their approval, take it up with your congressperson. In the mean time the FDA approved the Pfizer vax and their stance is that it’s the same formulation as the EUA.

17
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 15, 2021, 06:20:22 AM »
Quote from: stash
What exactly is the issue here? There is supply already out there being used to vaccinate folks. Why would they be sending out re-labeled same formulation vaccines when the stuff is already out there.

Wrong. It's not the same formula. Maybe do some research before repeating falsities.

Maybe you should take your own advice. Why don't you explain to us how the presence of "optimized codons" changes the formulation that is still considered the same formulation by the FDA?

If you want to know what they do look it up yourself. You claimed it was the same formula. It's not, as stated by the FDA.

I did look it up. The FDA seems to disagree with you. You seemed to have missed what was posted before, from the FDA as part of their approval (My bolding, and a little red, this time so maybe you won't miss it):

"The FDA-approved COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) and the EUA-authorized Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine have the same formulation and can be used interchangeably to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series.1"
https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download

Again, I'm sure you know a lot more about optimized codons than anyone here or at the FDA. Lay it on us why the FDA says it's the same formulation but your insight into codon optimization is contrary to what the FDA says. School us.

Quote from: stack
Rather speculative..."In a few weeks, maybe they'll say in another few weeks..." and so on. Maybe. Speculation duly noted.

You cited speculation. The source said October "at earliest", while other sources in the article said there was no timeframe available.




Great, so how does this fit into some sort of no liability narrative? Still speculative. One person says maybe October. Another says they don't have a timeline. So what? What's the narrative you'r trying to assert?

Quote from: stack
When my wife was mandated by her employer to get vaxxed, she couldn't choose J&J or Moderna because they weren't available. So what?

What does your wife's irresponsible life choices have to do with this?

Irresponsible? This seems irresponsible: https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/

In answer to your question, availability of specific vaxs or lack thereof. Which seems to be contentious for some reason. I don't know why.

It was claimed in this thread that the vaccine was FDA approved and this approval was given as justification for the vaccine mandates. This reasoning and justification is flawed since the vaccine that was approved is not available in the US.

I might of missed it. Who claimed that "approval was given as justification for the vaccine mandates"? I think there's some case law around States mandating approved vaccines going back to the 20's & 50's (As in 1920's and 1950's). So yeah, I think "approved" vaccines might make it easier, legally, to require mandates. As for "flawed justification", it seems very complicated. But that said, the Biden mandates will definitely get mired in the courts. No doubt about that. Your opinion on the matter is noted.

18
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 14, 2021, 09:33:16 PM »
Quote from: stash
What exactly is the issue here? There is supply already out there being used to vaccinate folks. Why would they be sending out re-labeled same formulation vaccines when the stuff is already out there.

Wrong. It's not the same formula. Maybe do some research before repeating falsities.

Maybe you should take your own advice. Why don't you explain to us how the presence of "optimized codons" changes the formulation that is still considered the same formulation by the FDA?

"The FDA-approved COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) and the EUA-authorized Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine have the same formulation and can be used interchangeably to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series.1"
https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download

I'm sure you know a lot more about optimized codons than anyone here or at the FDA.

Comirnaty is also touted as "legally distinct", which may have legal ramification in the case of adverse events.

I'm sure it does. Probably means they can charge way more than $20 a jab for it too. Seems like the norm for big pharma.

Quote from: stash
I mean what's the difference between now and few weeks from now?

It being not available simply means that it's not available. In a few weeks they may be saying that they think it might be a few weeks more, just like they probably thought a few weeks ago. No one can take the FDA-approved vaccine in the US if they wanted to. If someone has to get vaccinated now by their employer they can't choose to take the FDA-approved vaccine.

Rather speculative..."In a few weeks, maybe they'll say in another few weeks..." and so on. Maybe. Speculation duly noted.

When my wife was mandated by her employer to get vaxxed, she couldn't choose J&J or Moderna because they weren't available. So what?

19
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 14, 2021, 08:26:55 PM »
Obviously people can't take a mandated FDA-approved vaccine that's not available. Pfizer may be doing this purposely to avoid liability because it enjoys certain indemnity under the Emergency Use version.

What exactly is the issue here? There is supply already out there being used to vaccinate folks. Why would they be sending out re-labeled same formulation vaccines when the stuff is already out there. And isn't there some crazy cooling environment that needs to be maintained for the Pfizer vax? It seems like you can't just ship tons of it with such a tenuous shelf-life and just have it hanging around when you have vials and vials of the same stuff already. Other countries may not have the vax surplus we may have, so maybe some will start getting the new labeled stuff sooner. Don't know.

Even your lazy mis-information dumpster fire that is Epoch Times states that the newly labeled stuff might be out in US markets in October, yah know, just a couple to a few weeks away. I don't think that plays into the "let's keep the EUA so we can't get sued" narrative. I mean what's the difference between now and few weeks from now?

20
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 14, 2021, 05:16:32 PM »
I don't know what you are talking about regarding tax law but there are several laws/statutes violated by holding an EUA and FDA approval simultaneously for the same product.

It's all in the lawsuit, check it out! https://childrenshealthdefense.org/wp-content/uploads/CHD-v.-FDA-Submitted-Complaint-8.31.21.pdf

I'm sure there are a lot of cases being brought regarding vaccines, masks, mandates, etc. But to simply say "there are several laws/statutes violated by holding an EUA and FDA approval simultaneously for the same product" is not doing any due diligence into how the laws are written.

In the case you cited it states, "The FDA purportedly managed to do what the law forbids: "approve" a vaccine but not revoke any Emergency Use Authorized vaccines for the same indication." Just because they wrote that in their complaint doesn't mean that it is a fact.

And they reference their interpretation of what I copied and pasted from the FDA regarding EUA's and "approvals". This particular case, sponsored by this "childrens health defense", from the complaint, they have previously filed to have Pfizer not get FDA approval and requested all EUA's be revoked. If you read the complaint it's a lot more about making it so mandates can't be mandated, so to speak. And this "can't have an approved vaccine and EUA's at the same time," business is sort of a trojan horse to get the real issue addressed: Mandates, especially in the private sector.

Obvi the courts will decide this, but I see no where where you can't have EUA's and Approved vaccines at the same time - Especially regarding the FDC's wording around , "available" & "adequate". It comes down to the language.

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