Re: Sun Spot Issues Debunk Heliocentricity
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2018, 05:17:25 AM »
If the Earth were a globe, and you were standing on it, and the Earth were rotating, what do you think that would look like?

It turns out, it would result in things like equatorial mounts being useful.

Pictures you have seen of the moon where it is not rotating were almost certainly generated by people using equatorial mounts.

Re: Sun Spot Issues Debunk Heliocentricity
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2018, 05:44:10 AM »
what is the mechanism for this rolling
Because it's a globe, and the viewing angle from different latitudes change as that globe rotates.
Model 29 meant that the Earth is a spinning globe. I suspect that you interpreted the pronoun as referring to the moon.


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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Sun Spot Issues Debunk Heliocentricity
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2018, 06:38:33 AM »
I said "tilt".  If you tilt your view/camera, everything in that field of view ends up tilted.  Something 10 feet away will tilt as much as something 10 miles, 10 million miles, (whatever distance), away.

One's position at sun/moon rise on a globe will be 'tilted' (in relation to the sun/moon) a different way at sun/moon set.  (unless at the poles of course)

You are obviously struggling with this concept.  Do I need to post a diagram?

If you are looking at the sun from a slightly tilted angle from 92 million miles away, you are going to keep looking at it from that angle. Perspective won't help you at that distance.

Unless you wish to argue that we have a close sun?

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Sun Spot Issues Debunk Heliocentricity
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2018, 09:04:39 AM »
I said "tilt".  If you tilt your view/camera, everything in that field of view ends up tilted.  Something 10 feet away will tilt as much as something 10 miles, 10 million miles, (whatever distance), away.

One's position at sun/moon rise on a globe will be 'tilted' (in relation to the sun/moon) a different way at sun/moon set.  (unless at the poles of course)

You are obviously struggling with this concept.  Do I need to post a diagram?

If you are looking at the sun from a slightly tilted angle from 92 million miles away, you are going to keep looking at it from that angle. Perspective won't help you at that distance.

Unless you wish to argue that we have a close sun?
But you turn around to keep facing the sun so you see the sun from a different angle. These two photos are of the moon, but the same thing applies.

2016 May 24 19.36 - Moon at Elevation 6.3° Azimuth 107.7°  - 1600mm equiv lens
For this photo I was facing about 18° North of East but for the next, on the following morning I was facing about 12° North of West.

2016 May 25 06.46 - Moon at Elevation 26.5° Azimuth  262.1°  - 1600mm equiv lens
So I have turned about 206° between the two photos making the moon appear to rotate. In both cases I held the camera level, as you do.

Times are East Australian Standard Time.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Sun Spot Issues Debunk Heliocentricity
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2018, 02:11:56 PM »
In those photos the moon is just inverted or flipped. The moon flips when it passed overhead, like how I explained in my second post with the sunspot analogy. The moon is not "rolling all throughout the night," as far as I can tell.

If there is a feature on the moon's disk facing the horizon when it rises, that feature will not be facing the horizon when it sets, just as your picture illustrates.

Look at this timelapse photography of the moon from Seattle. It keeps it orientation for a long period of time. It does not continuously "roll throughout the night". It only flips at the apex.

Click and zoom:



Direct link to flicker gallery with higher resolutions: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/daves-f-stop/7152807305/sizes/l
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 03:24:44 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Sun Spot Issues Debunk Heliocentricity
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2018, 02:32:50 PM »
I submit that I was right in the first place -- the moon does not "roll through the night." Gary's video slide show of the moon "rolling" was taken between 11am to 2am -- and captured moments when it passes by overhead when it is shifting to become flipped or inverted. Timelapse photography shows, as with the above Seattle example, that the moon does not "continuously roll throughout the night."
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 04:47:55 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Sun Spot Issues Debunk Heliocentricity
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2018, 03:34:36 PM »
the moon does not suddenly "flip" when it reaches the local meridian.  how would that happen?

from the perspective of a viewer on the ground, the face of the moon appears to rotate throughout the night.
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Offline model 29

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Re: Sun Spot Issues Debunk Heliocentricity
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2018, 03:56:42 PM »
the moon does not suddenly "flip" when it reaches the local meridian.  how would that happen?
Only situation I know of is around the equator when the person physically turns around 180 degrees at the sun/moons apex, in order to continue tracking it.  Also around an equinox. 

Offline model 29

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Re: Sun Spot Issues Debunk Heliocentricity
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2018, 04:03:31 PM »
If you are looking at the sun from a slightly tilted angle from 92 million miles away, you are going to keep looking at it from that angle. Perspective won't help you at that distance.

Unless you wish to argue that we have a close sun?
Are you saying that if I aim my camera at a distant object and take a picture, and then tilt my camera while keeping it aimed at that same distant object and take another picture, that when I upload and view the two images, the features of that distant object will still be oriented the same.  No rotation of the features.

Is that what you are saying?

Look at this timelapse photography of the moon from Seattle. It keeps it orientation for a long period of time. It does not continuously "roll throughout the night". It only flips at the apex.
He also blended multiple images of the city, and added the moon shots as layers.  He wasn't clear if the moon images were blended, but it appears that way.  Layering the first and last moon image, they are identical pixel for pixel.  I'll try taking pictures myself.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 04:16:52 PM by model 29 »

Re: Sun Spot Issues Debunk Heliocentricity
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2018, 05:53:07 PM »
When you go outside to look at or photograph the moon, you don't face East and then crane your neck straight up until you see the moon. You face whatever direction to see the moon most easily.

When the moon first rises you will be facing East, and when it is about to set, you'll be facing West. Half way between, in the northern hemisphere you'll be facing South.

One quarter of the way through the moon's path, you'll be facing Southeast. You are turning to face the moon, and the Earth's rotation is tilting you.

In the Karen B video, when attempting to claim that equatorial mounts don't work, she shows an animation of why the sun should not rotate, but the animation shows incorrectly the camera perspective is locked to the North Pole, it doesn't rotate with the Earth as it would in real life. I'll try to make you an image to look at.

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Offline Bobby Shafto

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Re: Sun Spot Issues Debunk Heliocentricity
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2018, 06:20:16 PM »
I wasn't paying attention to this phenomenon when I took these for this other thread, but ....



April 28th, 2018 - from N32.97 latitude; handheld, taken about 2 3/4 hours apart (~19:06 and ~21:48). Never thought about or noticed that the moon "rolled" along it's path.

Re: Sun Spot Issues Debunk Heliocentricity
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2018, 06:38:25 PM »
I wasn't able to capture an image that looks good, but you cant watch the Karen B video, starting at 13:27, for about 1 minute. The animation shows the earth rotating back and forth and the perspective from an observer on earth, BUT the camera angle is locked to the ecliptic. An equatorial mount does almost that exact thing (locks the camera angle in space).

In attempting to deny the utility of the equatorial mount, she demonstrates its necessity.

If you imagine yourself standing on the surface of that ball earth in the video, "up" changes dramatically from sunrise to sunset.