[Jura-Glenlivet]

My ability to question all aspects of the world, and your inability or refusal to question, makes me smarter than you. You are promoting ignorance. One of us is open for growth and learning and the other is not.

And in steps the narcissism mentioned in the article, only he (they) see through the veil, the special ones that dare to question, leaving us the sheeple to follow our masters.

That we dare to question the questioners makes us the agents of the deceitful state rather than a more discerning version of what he aspires to be.

[Tontogary]

You are implying that we should trust authorities because they are authorities. You were JUST implying that we should trust the United Nations. Then you backtracked.

Now you are arguing that we should trust our doctors.

Yet another Strawman tom. You dont ever seem to get it do you?

You made the connection that because politicians lied about one thing, and created Nasa, then Nasa having been created by the politicians were not to be trusted. Which would then follow that anything created by politicians should not be trusted.

I started a very small part of a long list of bodies that are/were created by politicians.

I never said that you must trust them implicitly. Please quote me where i wrote that. Otherwise you have to admit to your Strawman.

So world food programme, Save the Chiuldren, UNHCR, etc etc, all products of politicians are products of the UN, and Tom has clearly stated that they are not to be trusted.

You also listed a bunch of things, and then asked us to disprove them, well as you are fond of saying. Your claim you prove it. I dont need to prove a negative, but i am not going to accept your links until you provide me with the full evidence, witness statements, rebuttals and all side of the arguments you made.

“The New American” as a serious publication? Really Tom? Should we all rush out and get a subscription to that other uniquely American truth journal “the national enquirer” at the same time? You do realise that the rest of the world rather scoffs at publications like that. I would be rather embarrassed to use that New American as a source. Hardly impartial is it.

One thing it does show though is that there is obviously a certain type of thinking to people who support those trashy websites/publications, as it does seem to show that people like a good conspiracy theory, even if it has not a lot of supporters in the rest of the populace, and it does seem that some parts of the world may be more susceptible to wild theories than others.....

[Tontogary]

Why not question the world? Why not question what you are told? Maybe it is a better idea to know why you believe something rather than just accept it at face value. My ability to question all aspects of the world, and your inability or refusal to question, makes me smarter than you. You are promoting ignorance. One of us is open for growth and learning and the other is not.
[/quote]

I never said do not question the world. Holding authority to account is vital in a democracy. Without it you get abuse of power and dictatorship.

My point was that holding authority to account is healthy, and desirable.
Out and out mistrust and scepticism is counter productive.

I start from a position of cautious trust, and question, and if the questions are answered reasonably, then trust is gained more.

You on the other hand seem to be absolute mistrust of anyone and everything, and only to accept what fits with your perspective.

As for copying of a story about someone who got better, I have heard that quoted before in a number of places, and if true (i am sure you can provide evidence that it is an ACTUAL case, and the patient made a great recovery) there are hundreds/thousands/millions more cases where the doctors got it right.
I have been sick, i go to a doctor, i follow his advice I get better. That is the basis of my trust.

There are many many cases of sham JuJu healers who I have made people sick and die by getting them to try snake oil and magic potions (there is even the suggestion that Rowbotham did the same, i wonder if there is a connection there somehow???) others have made profits out of it, and some prey on terminally sick and consequently desperate people.

I would rather trust someone who has trained for years and years, is held accountable by public record, and by authorities to do a job, be it pilot, doctor, nurse, teacher, train driver, or whatever than to trust someone who might have my life in their hands who claims to have mystic powers and tells me to eat some potion or other, or has no official training, and has no recognisable qualifications.......

[AATW]

Why not question the world? Why not question what you are told?

So far, so reasonable.
Questioning things is a good thing.
But that isn’t what you do.
You simply accept anything blindly which confirms your world view and reject anything spuriously which does not.
Witness your response to the horizon dip experiments. They all - four different ways - show the same result, they all show that horizon dips.
But Rowbotham says different so you unquestioningly accept his results and you reject all the experiments which show a different result on spurious grounds. This is not a questioning mindset, it is confirmation bias. 

And declaring yourself smart is fairly risible when you took 2 days to understand a simple experiment with a laser and a boat despite several people trying to explain it to you, and spent a good week failing to understand why the division between the duration of a year and the duration of a day doesn’t have to be an integer (still don’t think you’ve understood that).

[jcks]

Why not question the world? Why not question what you are told?

So far, so reasonable.
Questioning things is a good thing.
But that isn’t what you do.
You simply accept anything blindly which confirms your world view and reject anything spuriously which does not.
Witness your response to the horizon dip experiments. They all - four different ways - show the same result, they all show that horizon dips.

I think the best example of this is the shaq debacle.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5909.0

When Shaq agreed with his viewpoint his words were taken at face value and used as irrefutable evidence for FET. When it's revealed later that Shaq was joking his words became open to interpretation and the conspiracy was expanded to include his managers forcing him to retract his statements in any effort to reverse damage to his brand.

[edby]

A point on collusion of govt agencies. As a general principle, the more widespread the supposed collusion, the less likely it is.

I have worked as an advisor to various government agencies for the greater part of my career. I am now retired, and have no reason to support any existing agency. Far from it.
My experience is that those who work in government are generally good people, are honest, and believe passionately (sometimes mistakenly) in what they do. I have experienced malpractice, but mostly within department level. The reason is that a large bureacracy, like any organisation, is composed of competing departments or units, often with conflicting objectives, and there is generally great rivalry. Any malpractice, if discovered by another department, is likely to be seized upon and capitalised to the political benefit of that department. It is the same in any organisation, public or private.

The main job of senior managers is to make sense of what subordinate departments are saying, and to settle the endless political rivalries.

And that is just within the organisation. Different government agencies in the same country tend to mistrust each other. Different agencies in different countries, forget any kind of collusion or cooperation.

[AATW]

I think the best example of this is the shaq debacle.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5909.0

When Shaq agreed with his viewpoint his words were taken at face value and used as irrefutable evidence for FET. When it's revealed later that Shaq was joking his words became open to interpretation and the conspiracy was expanded to include his managers forcing him to retract his statements in any effort to reverse damage to his brand.

Well, shit 

Yes, that IS a perfect example. How embarrassing for Tom! And this is where confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance gets interesting.
People become completely illogical and will make more and more ridiculous claims as more and more evidence mounts to show they are wrong.
Anything other than admit they're wrong.
And Tom identifies so much with being a "flat earther" that this is very strong with him, very hard for him to think rationally and admit he is is mistaken.
Either that, or he's a troll. Quite hard to tell the difference.

[Tontogary]

Why not question the world? Why not question what you are told?

So far, so reasonable.
Questioning things is a good thing.
But that isn’t what you do.
You simply accept anything blindly which confirms your world view and reject anything spuriously which does not.
Witness your response to the horizon dip experiments. They all - four different ways - show the same result, they all show that horizon dips.

I think the best example of this is the shaq debacle.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5909.0

When Shaq agreed with his viewpoint his words were taken at face value and used as irrefutable evidence for FET. When it's revealed later that Shaq was joking his words became open to interpretation and the conspiracy was expanded to include his managers forcing him to retract his statements in any effort to reverse damage to his brand.

Fantastic. Really must be cringing for this to come back again ehTom?

You are that any authority needs to be challenged, yet you refused to accept that Shaq. Could be wrong, and he was an expertly in his field, as well as hoisting him on a pedestool as an authority to be taken seriously.

Who am I going to believe, a doctor of education; or you guys, who are not doctors of education?

You seemed to be very happy to believe that Doctor when you thought he was supporting your ideas, yet in their very thread you scoff at the idea of believing a doctor? I find it hard to find you credible in any way.

Then it all sort of went wrong....