Yaakov ben Avraham

Music as energy.
« on: December 13, 2013, 04:58:12 AM »
Greetings: The same friend that sent me the cd with 'The Ballad of Queen Jane' has also sent a book, 'The Secret Power of Music: the Transformation of Self & Society Through Musical Energy'. What do you all think? The author presents the idea that music is @ the base of all civilisation, both mathematically & tonally, thus indicating that when music degrades, so does civilisation & culture. Any thoughts on this?

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Music as energy.
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2013, 04:59:05 AM »
Based on what little you present it sounds utterly ridiculous.
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Offline Blanko

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Re: Music as energy.
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2013, 04:59:55 AM »
How does that work in practice? Musicians are best fit to run nations? Uuuhhhh...

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Music as energy.
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2013, 05:08:10 AM »
I just started reading. I wanted to see if any of you had more knowledge of this than I did. Perhaps not. If not, that's fine. Once I read more of the book, I'll share it here. W/ more info, maybe a musician or two can talk about it. I sing & play some piano, but... I'll let you know when I know more.

Re: Music as energy.
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2013, 05:09:07 AM »
Music is one of the oldest art forms, and present in all cultures, but I wouldn't say that the culture and society are dependent on the quality of the music.  If there's any causal relationship between the two, it's probably the other way around.
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Re: Music as energy.
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2013, 05:27:40 AM »
I've heard about this before.  I think it's what Pete Townshend was trying to do with his Lifehouse project.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Music as energy.
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2013, 05:34:06 AM »
I think eating is the base of human civilization. Human culture definitely breaks down if they don't eat.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Music as energy.
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2013, 05:47:27 AM »
Saddam, please explain. Who is Pete Townshend, & what is the Lifehouse project? EDIT Pete Townshend, member of the band the Who. Lifehouse project, an unfinished sci-fi rockestra in which the inner vibration of rock music has the capacity to challenge the post-apocalyptic horror that life has become.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 06:02:33 AM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

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Online Lord Dave

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Re: Music as energy.
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2013, 01:12:13 PM »
Music doesn't do anything for civilization but it does reflect culture.  And through repetition, can expand a specific culture's influence.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Music as energy.
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2013, 02:26:02 PM »
Music does do something for society, as do all art forms. They provide a forum for people to connect emotionally in a physical and sensory fashion that bypasses our ego driven defenses. It evokes our shared memory and can bring us closer together.
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Offline spoon

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Re: Music as energy.
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2013, 04:22:27 AM »
America has shitty music but it's a pretty swell place.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Music as energy.
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2013, 05:16:58 AM »
America has shitty music but it's a pretty swell place.

Incorrect.
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Offline Crudblud

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Re: Music as energy.
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2013, 06:01:40 AM »
Plato had similar ideas about music's relationship with society:

Quote from: The Republic
The overseers must be watchful against its insensible corruption. They must throughout be watchful against innovations in music and gymnastics counter to the established order, and to the best of their power guard against them, fearing when anyone says that that song is most regarded among men “which hovers newest on the singer’s lips”, lest it be supposed that the poet means not new songs but a new way of song and is commending this. But we must not praise that sort of thing nor conceive it to be the poet’s meaning. For a change to a new type of music is something to beware of as a hazard of all our fortunes. For the modes of music are never disturbed without unsettling of the most fundamental political and social conventions.

I don't believe we live in a time when music could have such profound effects on society; in less "civilised" lands it is possible to conceive of music produced by people for their village or tribe, or indeed by a village or tribe as a whole for themselves, and this music forms an important part of regular life there, but in the First World we essentially have two kinds of music: the mainstream and the specialised. The former of these is a commodity, any impact it has on anyone is more often than not due to images or ideas that are associated with it in marketing and the environment in which it is presented (e.g.: a club, in which the music functions as sonic wallpaper) rather than the music itself which is essentially stagnant, recycling itself near constantly; the latter avoids commodification by being "about itself", it is not designed with a purpose outside itself and is almost entirely divorced from the extramusical things which the former relies on to appeal to consumers. Milton Babbitt's article The Composer as Specialist (originally published against his wishes under the title Who Cares If You Listen?) is an interesting and controversial text on the subject of this "specialised music" and its purpose, or lack thereof.

tl;dr: Music is irrelevant to society because it is inherently meaningless, it can be augmented with things outside itself: words, images, functions, fashions, ideologies, activities etc. but can never escape its fundamentally abstract nature.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Music as energy.
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2013, 06:14:45 AM »
The relevance behind music is the artists. It is the artist who connects with the audience by playing or singing, and thereby renders the music relevant to some vitality in culture. This is a difficult feat to achieve when the audience numbers in the hundreds of millions so LCD becomes the default easiest position to make money from. But occasionally a band, like maybe Arcade Fire , will do something mainstream that has something extra that you find more commonly among more "specialized" musicians.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.