[Blanko]

Are you criticizing the inconsistency or the justness of the sentence itself? Because I haven't heard anything from you that would suggest this is about anything other than revenge for the victims. You just want punishment for the kid, and what exactly would that solve? He'd just grow bitter and jaded and then go hurting people with actual ill-will.

Next you'll maybe want to tell me that the United States incarceration rates are perfectly fine and the system is working exactly as intended. Because why spend money on rehabilitation, when you can be sure that your convicts are gonna stay nice and locked up after countless reincarcerations, right?

[DuckDodgers]

The defense deferred the blame on the parents, I don't agree with that and think any 16 year old who is not mentally handicapped knows that there are consequences to their actions.  He was consuming alcohol underage, under the influence behind the wheel,  driving recklessly by being almost double the speed limit, and 4 counts of vehicular homicide. More than probation is called for here.  Put him in jail for 20 with a parole option after 7 granted he attends therapy sessions while behind bars and continues for a few years while on probation following a parole.  A person with such a warped sense of reality is just a danger to society until he can realize the consequences, if that really is the case.

I truly believe that are just deflecting the blame to the parents to protect him from prison, and as such will not learn responsibility of his actions since mom and dad's money is bailing him out.

Yeah, all I want is revenge for the victims

I'm criticizing the justness of the punishment in that it is an almost blatant case of money buying a lenient sentence.

Are you saying that there shouldn't be any harsh punishments for accidents such as this which are completely avoidable by using a little bit of thought?

[Blanko]

You're not making an argument for the justness of American prison sentences, you're just saying buying a lenient sentence is unjustified. That it may be, but why does that have to be bought? Why isn't rehabilitation over retribution the norm in America like it is in a lot of countries where it demonstrably works perfectly fine? How exactly do you expect a kid who made a mistake to turn out when you put him away for 20 years?

[Shane]

I am with Blanko. Americans tend to view the criminal justice system in the wrong light. We don't care to, generally, rehabilitate criminals, but to just put away the "bad guys" for as long as possible to get a sense of vengeance. Lol what do "correctional facilities" do to correct criminals?

[DuckDodgers]

This thread isn't about the effectiveness of the American prison system, if you want to argue that make a different thread.

As I've already shown, I don't think that 20 years is a good sentence for this teen in that he would necessarily serve all 20.  I just don't feel that his punishment matches the crime he committed of 4 counts of vehicular manslaughter.

[Blanko]

So... you don't think effectiveness of punishment is related to what punishment matches a given crime. Got it.

And again, no justification.

[DuckDodgers]

http://www.covnews.com/section/1/article/46668/
17 year old receives 15 year sentence and is required to serve at least 3 years behind bars before being released.
http://www.baristanet.com/2010/10/millburn-teen-gets-four-years-for-drunk-driving/
19 year old receives a 4 year sentence.
http://www.delcotimes.com/general-news/20131125/montco-teen-pleads-guilty-in-dui-crash-that-killed-female-jogger
19 year old, deferred sentencing pending further court review.  Mandatory 3 year prison sentence though could face as much as 12 years.

There is plenty of precedence for this teen to receive jail time.  He can receive the same treatment while serving time locked up, specifically at a juvenile facility and his parents' wealth shouldn't be able to protect him from that.

[Blanko]

But why should he?

You don't need to convince me that the American criminal justice system is terrible, I already believe that.

[DuckDodgers]

What is two years of counseling and 10 years of probation really going to teach this teen about the value of a human life?

[Blanko]

As opposed to what, prison? As Sean put it, there's nothing "correctional" about it. And like I said, it's just likely he'd become resentful for it.

Counseling at least might do something. Maybe it's not the best option, but what can you do? Your nation doesn't have a system for criminal rehabilitation in place. Again, definitely not saying there's anything good about the American criminal justice system.

[Snupes]

Blanko is very wise here; this has been my feeling about the whole justice system in general. America's is terrible.

[DuckDodgers]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/12/21881746-affluenza-doesnt-justify-teens-behavior-in-fatal-crash-psychologists-say?lite

Dr. Gary Buffone, a Jacksonville, Fla., psychologist who does family wealth advising.
"Essentially what he (the judge) has done is slapped this child on the wrist for what is obviously a very serious offense which he would be responsible for in any other situation," Buffone said. "The defense is laughable, the disposition is horrifying ... not only haven't the parents set any consequences, but it's being reinforced by the judge's actions."

This sentence of 10 years probation will most likely serve to reinforce the belief that his parents' money will buy him out of trouble.

[Blanko]

Okay...

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I personally object to warehousing anyone. Give the kid 5 yrs of corrective labour, & when he's done, wipe his record, since it was a juvenile offence. & the boy is going to need counselling, just to survive the guilt. Make sure he gets that, too.

[Saddam Hussein]

Nobody reply to Yaakov.

Anyway, focusing on rehabilitation rather than retribution is all well and good, but that's not what this case is about.  The kid wasn't given a slap on the wrist because the judge suddenly realized that putting him in jail wouldn't help turn his life around and would only most likely produce a repeat offender; he got a slap on the wrist because he's rich.  That's the main issue here.

[Blanko]

Nobody reply to Yaakov.

Anyway, focusing on rehabilitation rather than retribution is all well and good, but that's not what this case is about.  The kid wasn't given a slap on the wrist because the judge suddenly realized that putting him in jail wouldn't help turn his life around and would only most likely produce a repeat offender; he got a slap on the wrist because he's rich.  That's the main issue here.

So what, we're just supposed to talk about what happened? How is this really a conversation if we don't bring up the question of what punishment he should have gotten?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Mind you, corrective labour & hard labour are 2 different things. He also needs to finish school, & start college or trade school. Hell, if he was willing to join the military @ age 18, I'd even reduce his sentence to 2 yrs in exchange for a 4 yr hitch.

[Saddam Hussein]

Nobody reply to Yaakov.

Anyway, focusing on rehabilitation rather than retribution is all well and good, but that's not what this case is about.  The kid wasn't given a slap on the wrist because the judge suddenly realized that putting him in jail wouldn't help turn his life around and would only most likely produce a repeat offender; he got a slap on the wrist because he's rich.  That's the main issue here.

So what, we're just supposed to talk about what happened? How is this really a conversation if we don't bring up the question of what punishment he should have gotten?

I'm not saying you can't talk about that.  It just seemed to me that the discussion was being dominated by something that was really only a side issue.

[Rama Set]

He was a victim of bad parenting and yes money was the source of bad parenting, but there are many sources of bad parenting that do not have to do with money. Did the judge give him a slap on the wrist because he was rich or because his parents wealth made them bad parents. I think there is a distinct difference.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

The sad part is this boy could have been made a better citizen w/ the right penalty. I'd heard the judge was in danger of losing his job. Is that true?