Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #80 on: February 11, 2014, 01:49:26 PM »
From videos I've seen of it I'm not missing anything though.
I dunno man, you're missing out on controls designed to be far more complex than the controller was ever meant to be. That's something videos just can't convey.

Yeah, buttons corresponding to individual actions is so complex.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #81 on: February 11, 2014, 07:56:08 PM »
Mind you, that's not a "judgment" of the game. I just happen to think the game is fair, that's all. I absolutely do not believe it would be a better game if it was harder. It's just a little annoying to me that Dark Souls is just a "difficult game" for a lot of people when it succeeds on so many other levels.

It's pure, uncompromising gaming that puts design and game philosophy first when most modern devs spend their time making pretty cutscenes and set pieces as an excuse for bland on-rails gameplay.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #82 on: February 11, 2014, 08:01:52 PM »
Mind you, that's not a "judgment" of the game. I just happen to think the game is fair, that's all. I absolutely do not believe it would be a better game if it was harder. It's just a little annoying to me that Dark Souls is just a "difficult game" for a lot of people when it succeeds on so many other levels.

It's pure, uncompromising gaming that puts design and game philosophy first when most modern devs spend their time making pretty cutscenes and set pieces as an excuse for bland on-rails gameplay.

Quality sadaam.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #83 on: February 11, 2014, 08:19:19 PM »
Yes.  But in all seriousness, do you still stand by that assessment, even though you no longer consider the game to be that difficult?

Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #84 on: February 11, 2014, 08:30:31 PM »
I didn't say anything about difficulty in that quote...

Saddam Hussein

Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #85 on: February 11, 2014, 08:57:33 PM »
Not directly.  I didn't know if you considered the difficulty to be at least a part of the pure, uncompromising gaming or game philosophy.  If you didn't, could you please explain in greater detail what you meant?

Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #86 on: February 11, 2014, 09:12:14 PM »
It means the game is well designed.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #87 on: February 11, 2014, 09:48:54 PM »
But how?

Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #88 on: February 11, 2014, 10:04:05 PM »
Are you trying to bait me into something? We're not even talking about the difficulty anymore.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #89 on: February 11, 2014, 10:36:33 PM »
It means the game is well designed.
But it's not.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #90 on: February 11, 2014, 10:38:07 PM »
It means the game is well designed.
But it's not.

There's nothing wrong with a good noob trap.  :-*

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #91 on: February 11, 2014, 10:40:11 PM »
There's nothing wrong with a good noob trap.  :-*
I agree that poor design isn't necessarily "wrong", but that's irrelevant to your claim.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #92 on: February 11, 2014, 10:45:52 PM »
To be more specific, it's the "pure, uncompromised gameplay" part that I'm not clear on.  If it's not the difficulty, then what it is it about the gameplay that's so pure and uncompromised?  Is it just the lack of cutscenes?

Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #93 on: February 11, 2014, 10:48:54 PM »
There's nothing wrong with a good noob trap.  :-*
I agree that poor design isn't necessarily "wrong", but that's irrelevant to your claim.

Salt

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #94 on: February 11, 2014, 10:50:10 PM »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

<Parsifal> I like looking at Chinese Wikipedia with Noto installed
<Parsifal> I don't understand any of it but the symbols look nice

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #95 on: February 11, 2014, 10:54:51 PM »
Like always, when attempting to get a thorough answer from Blanko, he just pretends nothing happened and moves on. Saddam, he can't answer because he doesn't know. The end.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #96 on: February 11, 2014, 11:03:55 PM »
Like always, when attempting to get a thorough answer from Blanko, he just pretends nothing happened and moves on. Saddam, he can't answer because he doesn't know. The end.

Like always, projection

Saddam Hussein

Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #97 on: February 12, 2014, 12:43:50 AM »
On the Notion of Dark Souls

18:07   Blanko   Enemies that get stuck don't return to their spawn points
18:07   pizaaaaplanet   Correct
18:07   Blanko   So since the warrior returned to his spawn point, he must have deaggro'd
18:08   pizaaaaplanet   Assuming he has. I've been unable to reproduce that
18:08   Blanko   Because you're bad at video games
18:08   pizaaaaplanet   Which, by the way, only confirms my proposal that the game is not well-designed
18:08   Blanko   Yes, the game is unsuitable for your skill level

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18:17   pizaaaaplanet   You appear to confuse "gud things" with design
18:17   pizaaaaplanet   There are many games that are designed like utter shit that people enjoy. Good design is not a prerequisite for a good game
18:18   pizaaaaplanet   Good design is extraordinarily rare, and it's difficult to take you seriously when all you have to say is "all these design flaws are because GET GOOD"
18:18   Blanko   Aside from a bug with mobs getting stuck, everything you're proposing as "bad design" is just "this is too hard"
18:18   pizaaaaplanet   Not at all
18:19   Blanko   Actually, yeah
18:19   pizaaaaplanet   An expectation for me to know a key combination that's not stated to me is poor design
18:19   Blanko   It's not hard at all
18:19   pizaaaaplanet   Yes, I can Google it, or I can ask you. It's not good game design that I have to.
18:19   Blanko   True
18:19   Franklin   casual scum
18:20   Blanko   You could have figured it out yourself
18:20   Franklin   "hold my hand mr. video game"
18:20   Franklin   fucking filthy casuals
18:20   pizaaaaplanet   Blanko: Yes, that's what we call "trial and error gameplay" <3
18:20   pizaaaaplanet   (A form of poor design)
18:20   Blanko   Woah okay
18:20   Blanko   A form of game design is poor BECAUSE I SAID SO
18:21   pizaaaaplanet   Nah, I've taken a course on that, I'm far from an expert, but I understand the principles
18:21   pizaaaaplanet   But let's try this the other way around
18:21   pizaaaaplanet   Dark Sols is gud design BECAUSE I SAID SO
18:21   Blanko   >course on game design
18:21   Blanko   Alright, bigshot
18:21   pizaaaaplanet   Software design*
18:22   Blanko   So not relevant
18:22   pizaaaaplanet   Stop the presses, Dark Souls is not software
18:23   Blanko   Yeah, I'm sure software design 101 deals all the objective facts about trial and error gameplay
18:23   pizaaaaplanet   In case you haven't noticed, I'm a software developer with a tad more experience than "software design 101", but I think I do agree your University of /v/ degree is probably better

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19:01   pizaaaaplanet   We'll have to agree to disagree on the crestfallen guy. It breaks a number of principles I listed, which are standard knowledge. You're welcome to substitute it with your own view of good design, although you may want to elabroate on it when you do so
19:01   Blanko   Like you said yourself, it's "case-specific"
19:02   pizaaaaplanet   Wrong principle
19:02   Blanko   So I don't see how some principles are applicable when we're treating things case-by-case anyway
19:03   Blanko   I don't personally see a design difference between the crestfallen guy and figuring out how to methodically clear a room of enemies
19:03   pizaaaaplanet   If you're going to take things I said about one thing and apply it to others, then I'm going to do the same and claim that the crestfallen guy being a bug
19:03   pizaaaaplanet   is a bug*
19:03   Franklin   Wait
19:04   Franklin   You guys are still fucking going on this topic?
19:04   Blanko   Yes
19:04   Blanko   Problem?
19:04   Blanko   pizaaaaplanet: The only principle I recall you specifically mentioning was the undocumented interface one
19:05   Franklin   I'm going to go smoke a cig, and maybe get some food. If you fuckers are still going I will be impressed by your combined stubbornness and unwillingness to reach consensus on such a stupid topic.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #98 on: February 12, 2014, 12:59:05 AM »
Shitty excerpts, 2/10 would not skim through

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Offline Vongeo

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #99 on: February 19, 2014, 05:22:33 AM »
Lol Pizza planet sucks at this game.

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