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Offline nickrulercreator

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It really makes some good points. Why don't we see any noticeable change in the sun between the summer and winter solstices, except for its position? No change in size, no change in its speed across the sky, nothing. Why is everyone able to see it move about the same distance across the sky per hour(15 degrees) as mentioned in the video, when it should vary wildly depending on your location if the earth was flat? How does the sun not violate conservation of angular momentum as it moved over the plane? If momentum is conserved, as it is, then the days should increase as the sun moved further out, and decrease as it moved further in toward the north pole. The sun cannot magically speed up and slow down without some outside force. What is this force, if it exists?

This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2018, 11:39:59 PM »
It really makes some good points. Why don't we see any noticeable change in the sun between the summer and winter solstices, except for its position? No change in size, no change in its speed across the sky, nothing. Why is everyone able to see it move about the same distance across the sky per hour(15 degrees) as mentioned in the video, when it should vary wildly depending on your location if the earth was flat? How does the sun not violate conservation of angular momentum as it moved over the plane? If momentum is conserved, as it is, then the days should increase as the sun moved further out, and decrease as it moved further in toward the north pole. The sun cannot magically speed up and slow down without some outside force. What is this force, if it exists?

Why not read Earth Not a Globe to find out?

On why the sun does not change size, we have created this article to supplement ENAG's explanation: https://wiki.tfes.org/Magnification_of_the_Sun_at_Sunset

On why the sun does not act as if the perspective lines meet an infinite distance away, this is discussed in Earth Not a Globe. The perspective lines actually meet a finite distance away, as so:



Where the perspective lines meet (in this case the lands ascend to eye level) is not infinity. This occurs a finite distance away. The reasoning is discussed in Earth Not a Globe.

As an example, a long length of straight rail road tracks will ascend to eye level, despite the rail road tracks not being an infinite distance away. Under the traditional Ancient Greek model is would be impossible for rail road tracks to ascend to the horizon unless the rail road tracks were an infinite distance away. Since things can ascend and descend into the horizon, that means those assumptions are wrong.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 11:48:29 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2018, 11:47:59 PM »
As someone asked earlier, why is the observer (apparently) in a ditch?

And why does the illustration look as though it comes from a volume from the 1600s?
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Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2018, 11:56:35 PM »
As someone asked earlier, why is the observer (apparently) in a ditch?

And why does the illustration look as though it comes from a volume from the 1600s?

It looks like a ditch because the horizon appears to you as if you are standing on the inside of a bowl. The ground beneath you rises to eye level. The Ancient Greek version also says that perspective is like a bowl. The difference is that the Ancient Greeks assumed that the perspective lines meet an infinite distance away. Rowbotham shows that the perspective lines meet a finite distance away. Things on the horizon are not at infinity. Read Earth Not a Globe for more.

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Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2018, 12:18:43 AM »
It looks like a ditch because the horizon appears to you as if you are standing on the inside of a bowl.

I suggested in another thread that this is an optical illusion, but I don't recall seeing you answer.
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Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2018, 12:52:35 AM »
I suggested in another thread that this is an optical illusion, but I don't recall seeing you answer.

Yes, the sun merging with the horizon is an illusion. Any other questions?

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Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2018, 12:54:51 AM »

Why not read Earth Not a Globe to find out?

Because in the many threads on this site, as well as others, ENAG has been proven wrong.

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On why the sun does not change size, we have created this article to supplement ENAG's explanation: https://wiki.tfes.org/Magnification_of_the_Sun_at_Sunset

Your argument relies heavily on lens flare in images, though, not the divergence of light. There is also a large difference between a few hundred feet, as seen with street lamps, and the sun, which, according to you, is many thousands of miles away (even further at sunsets and sunrises). What math have you done to determine that it really is the divergence of light that causes the sun to appear the same size?

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On why the sun does not act as if the perspective lines meet an infinite distance away, this is discussed in Earth Not a Globe. The perspective lines actually meet a finite distance away

Then I should be able to take a telescope, point it at the sun after it sets, and see it again.

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As an example, a long length of straight rail road tracks will ascend to eye level

Tracks do not ascend to eye level, nor does the horizon. If tracks are longer than how far you can see to the horizon, then the tracks will appear to meet the horizon. Most images of straight tracks are also taken very close to the ground, meaning you can't see as far as if you were standing straight up. Many rail tracks run for miles, so they will meet the horizon.

The horizon does not ascend to eye level, as you claimed here:

The ground beneath you rises to eye level.

watch:

The higher you go, the lower the horizon drops. This is measurable.
This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today.

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Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2018, 01:08:34 AM »
Quote
On why the sun does not change size, we have created this article to supplement ENAG's explanation: https://wiki.tfes.org/Magnification_of_the_Sun_at_Sunset

Your argument relies heavily on lens flare in images, though, not the divergence of light. There is also a large difference between a few hundred feet, as seen with street lamps, and the sun, which, according to you, is many thousands of miles away (even further at sunsets and sunrises). What math have you done to determine that it really is the divergence of light that causes the sun to appear the same size?

The street lamps in the photograph at the end of that link are clearly not shrinking in size in the distance as they should be. The street lights in the distance are all the same size. How do you explain that? What aspect of "lens flare" causes light to appear at the same size regardless of distance?

Quote
Quote
On why the sun does not act as if the perspective lines meet an infinite distance away, this is discussed in Earth Not a Globe. The perspective lines actually meet a finite distance away

Then I should be able to take a telescope, point it at the sun after it sets, and see it again.

Make sure that there is nothing on the eye level horizon between you and the sun blocking your view.

In Earth Not a Globe Rowbotham shows that half sunken ships on calm standing bodies of water can be restored by viewing the scene with a telescope. When there are waves and swells the ship is not restorable.

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watch:

The higher you go, the lower the horizon drops. This is measurable.

The land drops a little at great altitudes because the atmosphere is not perfectly transparent. You are looking through more fog at greater altitudes. You can see in that video that the horizon is foggy and indistinct rather than sharp, as it is at sea level.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 01:20:41 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2018, 01:39:15 AM »
The street lamps in the photograph at the end of that link are clearly not shrinking in size in the distance as they should be. The street lights in the distance are all the same size. How do you explain that? What aspect of "lens flare" causes light to appear at the same size regardless of distance?

The street lamps in the photo may not be shrinking, but the headlights sure are (I'm talking about this photo: https://wiki.tfes.org/File:Streets_at_night.jpg). The headlight of the close car is huge, the headlights of the cars way far back in the street aren't. I'm skeptical as to where you found this image, and its original source. If you have it, would you mind providing it for me?

You ask what aspect of lens flare causes the light to appear the same size regardless of distance, and I unfortunately cannot answer that. Lens flare, as far as I know, does not have any method of calculation. Light divergence, on the other hand, does. Do you have any calculations.

I'd like to present these images that clearly show the flare of the lights of lamps getting smaller as they get further from the camera:
http://www.capetowndailyphoto.com/uploaded_images/_MG_5125-750184.jpg
https://3kpnuxym9k04c8ilz2quku1czd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/IMG_8681R.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNmF_rO7ZaSYHYQ3BVkMd_uHzJZMXwwecEvfg4eYIrWXRmajT3xQ
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUGZJSN_uc2jv6h8mC2o0CMGiZ6QOxHDr8exUL5eLfYN3Qr0HkiQ
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/CN3AJ7/boy-standing-on-pavement-at-night-with-street-lights-CN3AJ7.jpg
http://www.harlow.gov.uk/sites/harlow-cms/files/files/street%20lights%20-%20cropped%20-%20small.jpg
https://www.menshealth.com/sites/menshealth.com/files/styles/article_main_custom_user_phone_1x/public/articles/2016/07/warning-about-led-streetlight-glare1.jpg?itok=V8sm4ug7&timestamp=1467990851
http://media.istockphoto.com/photos/6th-st-bridge-picture-id514233304?k=6&m=514233304&s=612x612&w=0&h=stEVNCk4QiCuD8WQ2MsHQ1YSU7rj9MJzJ6nfzdRhxsY=
https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/streetlights-lighting-up-an-empty-street-picture-id489955440?k=6&m=489955440&s=612x612&w=0&h=Z5_U_jptj7Vh4UCcHBSyOrSJUCXYgZlv_F726NfeNLM=
https://fthmb.tqn.com/PsymxRVjoegqc9QiIjkvjW6TATQ=/768x0/filters:no_upscale()/sli-phenomenon-56a6ee3f5f9b58b7d0e5956e.jpg
https://clf1.medpagetoday.com/assets/images/resource-center/cs-led-street-lights-63502.jpg
http://covermyfb.com/media/covers/thumb/5616-street-lights-at-night.jpg (look at the ones way behind the trees)
https://static2.stuff.co.nz/1408304306/348/10394348.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.pdpics.com/images/7099-night-street-lights.jpg

Which such a large number of images that actually show a decrease in the apparent size of the lights, I'm a bit skeptical of your image on the wiki.

Quote
Make sure that there is nothing on the eye level horizon between you and the sun blocking your view.

Next time I go to a lake or ocean and watch the sun setting, I'll try that.

Quote
half sunken ships on calm standing bodies of water can be restored by viewing the scene with a telescope

Most of the objects never actually were far enough away. What about this, though: https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/dscn3193-comparison-jpg.24254/ or this: http://stupidconspiracies.org/misc/Toronto_across_lake_Ontario_from_Olcott.gif, this: http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/084/627/58d.jpg, this: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/F5Gl28xuvnI/maxresdefault.jpg, this: https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6207/6155192949_68fa85794e_o.jpg, this: https://deadconfederates.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/hull-down-03.png, this: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a04c6df7269268394ce2348d6476bf22-c, or this: https://i.imgur.com/11xysiz.png

Quote
When there are waves and swells the ship is not restorable.

I never knew some lakes and nearby coastlines got waves of several dozen or hundred feet, without a change in the wave and the waves dropping or rising, as they normally do.

Quote
The land drops a little at great altitudes because the atmosphere is not perfectly transparent. You are looking through more fog at greater altitudes. You can see in that video that the horizon is foggy and indistinct rather than sharp, as it is at sea level.

Fair point, but, is there any evidence to show that it does actually remain at eye level, even on planes?
This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today.

Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2018, 02:14:06 AM »
The street lamps in the photograph at the end of that link are clearly not shrinking in size in the distance as they should be. The street lights in the distance are all the same size. How do you explain that? What aspect of "lens flare" causes light to appear at the same size regardless of distance?

those lights look as they do because of pixel saturation, not lens flare.  that's why they all have the same sort of shape.  light from saturated pixels in the ccd is spilling over to adjacent pixels.  and probably mie scattering, too.

also, those lights do get smaller with distance.  open up photoshop and measure them.  the background lamps are at least half the size of the foregound lamps.  since you don't know the real distances, i'm not sure how you can say they're not shrinking as they "should be."  how small "should" the background lamps be?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 02:19:04 AM by garygreen »
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Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2018, 05:04:27 AM »
The street lamps in the photograph at the end of that link are clearly not shrinking in size in the distance as they should be. The street lights in the distance are all the same size. How do you explain that? What aspect of "lens flare" causes light to appear at the same size regardless of distance?

The street lamps in the photo may not be shrinking, but the headlights sure are (I'm talking about this photo: https://wiki.tfes.org/File:Streets_at_night.jpg). The headlight of the close car is huge, the headlights of the cars way far back in the street aren't. I'm skeptical as to where you found this image, and its original source. If you have it, would you mind providing it for me?

You ask what aspect of lens flare causes the light to appear the same size regardless of distance, and I unfortunately cannot answer that. Lens flare, as far as I know, does not have any method of calculation. Light divergence, on the other hand, does. Do you have any calculations.

I'd like to present these images that clearly show the flare of the lights of lamps getting smaller as they get further from the camera:
http://www.capetowndailyphoto.com/uploaded_images/_MG_5125-750184.jpg
https://3kpnuxym9k04c8ilz2quku1czd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/IMG_8681R.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNmF_rO7ZaSYHYQ3BVkMd_uHzJZMXwwecEvfg4eYIrWXRmajT3xQ
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUGZJSN_uc2jv6h8mC2o0CMGiZ6QOxHDr8exUL5eLfYN3Qr0HkiQ
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/CN3AJ7/boy-standing-on-pavement-at-night-with-street-lights-CN3AJ7.jpg
http://www.harlow.gov.uk/sites/harlow-cms/files/files/street%20lights%20-%20cropped%20-%20small.jpg
https://www.menshealth.com/sites/menshealth.com/files/styles/article_main_custom_user_phone_1x/public/articles/2016/07/warning-about-led-streetlight-glare1.jpg?itok=V8sm4ug7&timestamp=1467990851
http://media.istockphoto.com/photos/6th-st-bridge-picture-id514233304?k=6&m=514233304&s=612x612&w=0&h=stEVNCk4QiCuD8WQ2MsHQ1YSU7rj9MJzJ6nfzdRhxsY=
https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/streetlights-lighting-up-an-empty-street-picture-id489955440?k=6&m=489955440&s=612x612&w=0&h=Z5_U_jptj7Vh4UCcHBSyOrSJUCXYgZlv_F726NfeNLM=
https://fthmb.tqn.com/PsymxRVjoegqc9QiIjkvjW6TATQ=/768x0/filters:no_upscale()/sli-phenomenon-56a6ee3f5f9b58b7d0e5956e.jpg
https://clf1.medpagetoday.com/assets/images/resource-center/cs-led-street-lights-63502.jpg
http://covermyfb.com/media/covers/thumb/5616-street-lights-at-night.jpg (look at the ones way behind the trees)
https://static2.stuff.co.nz/1408304306/348/10394348.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.pdpics.com/images/7099-night-street-lights.jpg

Which such a large number of images that actually show a decrease in the apparent size of the lights, I'm a bit skeptical of your image on the wiki.

If you read the Wiki it says that only lights of sufficient intensity are able to catch onto the atmosphere and enlarge. It does not apply to all light. Otherwise everything would be enlarged. In the headlight highway example on that link the tail lights of the cars in the opposite lane are not being enlarged.

Any picture which shows lights shrinking only means that the lights are not sufficiently intense.

Quote
Quote
half sunken ships on calm standing bodies of water can be restored by viewing the scene with a telescope

Most of the objects never actually were far enough away. What about this, though: https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/dscn3193-comparison-jpg.24254/ or this: http://stupidconspiracies.org/misc/Toronto_across_lake_Ontario_from_Olcott.gif, this: http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/084/627/58d.jpg, this: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/F5Gl28xuvnI/maxresdefault.jpg, this: https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6207/6155192949_68fa85794e_o.jpg, this: https://deadconfederates.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/hull-down-03.png, this: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a04c6df7269268394ce2348d6476bf22-c, or this: https://i.imgur.com/11xysiz.png

The "Great Lakes" are actually inland seas, and have waves and swells on them. The rest of those images are on the sea. This is what is causing the sinking effect in many of those images.

Quote
Quote
When there are waves and swells the ship is not restorable.

I never knew some lakes and nearby coastlines got waves of several dozen or hundred feet, without a change in the wave and the waves dropping or rising, as they normally do.

The waves don't need to be all that big. Perspective is bringing them the horizon to your eye level, and the waves on the horizon are providing an area which other more distant objects can shrink behind. A small object can obscure a large object, much like if you hold a dime out in front of you it can obscure an elephant.

Quote
Quote
The land drops a little at great altitudes because the atmosphere is not perfectly transparent. You are looking through more fog at greater altitudes. You can see in that video that the horizon is foggy and indistinct rather than sharp, as it is at sea level.

Fair point, but, is there any evidence to show that it does actually remain at eye level, even on planes?

The evidence is that if you start at sea level and slowly increase your altitude the horizon will rise with you. Your perspective changes and you are able to see more distant lands, with the horizon rising as you rise. The fact that the horizon rises to stay at eye level, rather than lowers, as you increase altitude, is evidence that there is an effect going on which keeps the horizon at your eye level.

At a very high altitude you are looking through so much atmosphere the horizon just seems to be faded with fog. At that point the lands may seem to drop as you go higher -- but that is because of atmosphere.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 05:12:49 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2018, 05:20:28 AM »
The street lamps in the photograph at the end of that link are clearly not shrinking in size in the distance as they should be. The street lights in the distance are all the same size. How do you explain that? What aspect of "lens flare" causes light to appear at the same size regardless of distance?

those lights look as they do because of pixel saturation, not lens flare.  that's why they all have the same sort of shape.  light from saturated pixels in the ccd is spilling over to adjacent pixels.  and probably mie scattering, too.

also, those lights do get smaller with distance.  open up photoshop and measure them.  the background lamps are at least half the size of the foregound lamps.  since you don't know the real distances, i'm not sure how you can say they're not shrinking as they "should be."  how small "should" the background lamps be?

Yes, the Wiki addresses why the lights in the foreground are larger.

The effect only applies to the far field street lamps, not the near field street lamps. A street lamp once centimeter away from your eye ball will, of course, be much larger. The street lamps in the near field may be too close to catch on to the atmosphere or are larger than the projection.

The far field street lamps are all the same size, showing that there is an enlarging effect. The street lights in the distance are not appropriately shrinking.

Per your argument of "pixel saturation" as an explanation for these scenes, if the pixels were bleeding into the pixels near them, the lights should still shrink as they recede into the distance, not stay the same exact size. A smaller light would cause a smaller diameter of pixel bleed around it.

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Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2018, 06:07:58 AM »
All of these points are in Earth Not a Globe. Whether you believe it to be right or wrong, I don't understand why you guys don't dive into our literature to see what our actual arguments are before going through the efforts of making Youtube videos and debunking websites. Its not like that book isn't one of the first things that comes up when one starts researching this subject.

Why do I have to be here regurgitating the book every day? The book is free and online. If you are going to make an attack you should address the actual source material, not your personal idea of what FET is.

Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2018, 06:19:29 AM »
Is there Moon of sufficient brightness to avoid shrinkage? The planets? Because they also don't shrink.

Note also the distance between lights does shrink with distance, so why when the Moon is near Venus do they not appear to get closer as they get to the horizon?

Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2018, 08:38:46 AM »
All of these points are in Earth Not a Globe. Whether you believe it to be right or wrong, I don't understand why you guys don't dive into our literature to see what our actual arguments are before going through the efforts of making Youtube videos and debunking websites. Its not like that book isn't one of the first things that comes up when one starts researching this subject.

Why do I have to be here regurgitating the book every day? The book is free and online. If you are going to make an attack you should address the actual source material, not your personal idea of what FET is.
We are discussing the actual measurements of the earth, not your idea that somehow the earth changes depending on your position.

Still waiting for details of your mapping plan.

Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2018, 08:42:07 AM »
In Earth Not a Globe Rowbotham shows that half sunken ships on calm standing bodies of water can be restored by viewing the scene with a telescope. When there are waves and swells the ship is not restorable.
Why do you keep repeating lies like this?
Rowbotham doesn't SHOW that, he merely claims it.
And his "proof" is just him saying "this is what I saw" to which my equally valid riposte is "no it isn't".
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2018, 09:03:10 AM »
... the sun merging with the horizon is an illusion.

How do you reach this conclusion? From what evidence?

Why have you, in the last week or so, described the sun as "intersecting" and "merging" with the horizon? Do you regard these as meaning the same thing? If so, could you actually describe what you mean?
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Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2018, 09:12:11 AM »
The street lamps in the photograph at the end of that link are clearly not shrinking in size in the distance as they should be. The street lights in the distance are all the same size. How do you explain that? What aspect of "lens flare" causes light to appear at the same size regardless of distance?

I don't know, but it's clearly an effect due to the photography process used, for the lamp POSTS clearly diminish in size as their distance gets greater.



Make sure that there is nothing on the eye level horizon between you and the sun blocking your view.

Is the "eye level horizon" something different from any other kind? Do we have different horizons?

The land drops a little at great altitudes because the atmosphere is not perfectly transparent. You are looking through more fog at greater altitudes. You can see in that video that the horizon is foggy and indistinct rather than sharp, as it is at sea level.

...but it's still clearly below the level of the wing. Which is below the window. Which makes it lower than the observer's 'eye level'.

No?
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2018, 09:17:50 AM »
The evidence is that if you start at sea level and slowly increase your altitude the horizon will rise with you. Your perspective changes and you are able to see more distant lands, with the horizon rising as you rise. The fact that the horizon rises to stay at eye level, rather than lowers, as you increase altitude, is evidence that there is an effect going on which keeps the horizon at your eye level.

What is this 'evidence'? If it's in the form of imagery, then - how can a camera have an 'eye level'?
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Pete Svarrior "We are not here to directly persuade anyone ... You mistake our lack of interest in you for our absence."

Tom Bishop "We are extremely popular and the entire world wants to talk to us. We have better things to do with our lives than have in depth discussions with every single curious person. You are lucky to get one sentence dismissals from us"

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: CoolHardLogic released the 4th part of his "Testing Flattards" Series
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2018, 09:23:25 AM »
Its not like that book isn't one of the first things that comes up when one starts researching this subject.

Actually, I had never heard of it until you mentioned it here

Why do I have to be here regurgitating the book every day? The book is free and online. If you are going to make an attack you should address the actual source material, not your personal idea of what FET is.

So .. is this book a definitive statement of FET? An 'official' FET, if you like? Or are there other versions of FET out there?

You're here because you choose to post all manner of stuff that people disagree with, or find so vague that they need to question you to find out what you actually MEAN.

If you want to step away from the computer and have a quiet life away from this questioning, just hit the Off switch and do so. But you keep coming back.

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Pete Svarrior "We are not here to directly persuade anyone ... You mistake our lack of interest in you for our absence."

Tom Bishop "We are extremely popular and the entire world wants to talk to us. We have better things to do with our lives than have in depth discussions with every single curious person. You are lucky to get one sentence dismissals from us"