Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2018, 07:51:25 PM »
Honestly, reinstating the whole "ban if you have a mental illness" would help a lot.  Like "If you take medication because you have a mental illness like depression or anxiety, you shouldn't have a gun".

The next would be "No one with a gun ban can have access or possible access to a privately owned gun".

Like most mass shooters get their guns either by buying them legally or from a friend/family member.
If your gun is securely locked and the ammo is locked separately, the only way they can get your gun is if you lend it to them. And if you lend your gun to someone else who subsequently shoots up a school, you should do 5 years for aiding and abetting a criminal.

So lets add that, vote it in congress, surely it is very common sense and will get through ... onto the next constraint.

Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2018, 07:55:44 PM »
Honestly, reinstating the whole "ban if you have a mental illness" would help a lot.  Like "If you take medication because you have a mental illness like depression or anxiety, you shouldn't have a gun".

The next would be "No one with a gun ban can have access or possible access to a privately owned gun".

Like most mass shooters get their guns either by buying them legally or from a friend/family member.
If your gun is securely locked and the ammo is locked separately, the only way they can get your gun is if you lend it to them. And if you lend your gun to someone else who subsequently shoots up a school, you should do 5 years for aiding and abetting a criminal.

So lets add that, vote it in congress, surely it is very common sense and will get through ... onto the next constraint.

Or they make a copy of the key without you knowing.
Or they watch you spin in the combination to the lock.

The recent florida shooter?  Made a copy of the gun safe key.

Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2018, 08:24:56 PM »
I've been on this website for many years. And every major shooting gets a thread. And nothing changes. Not the frequency of the threads, the numbers of dead or the suggestions made.

It is never going to end.

*

Offline Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5896
  • Videmus Omnia
    • View Profile
Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2018, 08:46:49 PM »
It's not easy to get a gun here.  You can get a hunting rifle or shotgun easier than a handgun but you can't just say "I want a gun" you need a REASON to get a gun.  And "I need to protect my home from criminals" isn't good enough.  "I wanna hunt moose" usually is though.  But then you're limited to hunting rifles. 

Ah, yes, the classic "you need a reason to exercise this right"

But again, they're super regulated.  Cops can actually go to your house and inspect your gun safe at any time.  Warrant not needed.  So you know...

Oh dear, so you're telling me in addition to the second amendment, you'd like to see the fourth gone as well? What other rights bother you, Dave?

And hey, you're right.  1/3 less guns but way less mass shootings.  Maybe it has something to do with population?  The whole "most guns are outlawed"?  The mental health system everyone has free access to?
Just a thought.

Maybe it's because the amount of guns doesn't actually correlate to the amount of gun crime.

And I care because
1) I AM American.  I lived there for 32 god damn years.

You don't anymore, so it hardly matters what you think.

2) I do have friends and family there.

I hope they're not as morally disconcerting as you are.

I've been on this website for many years. And every major shooting gets a thread. And nothing changes. Not the frequency of the threads, the numbers of dead or the suggestions made.

It is never going to end.

That's because suggesting the banning of a right in order to prevent a crime is a fundamentally flawed argument. Imagine if a response to a rape epidemic was to castrate all men. No man really needs a penis, we can just start reproducing through artificial insemination. I'm sure rape rates will drop drastically as soon as we implement my game-changing law.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 08:51:13 PM by Rushy »

Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2018, 09:09:05 PM »
I suppose it depends on what you call a right.


Why do you have the 'right' to walk around with a lethal weapon? Why do you have the right to heighten the danger to your fellow citizens? Carrying a gun isn't a human right. It doesn't exist in international law. Castrating people does break the Geneva convention. The right to not be tortured or mutilated is also in there. Rights can be revoked. Which is just as well or wealthy land owners could still exercise their right to your fiancee's virginity in England. The Feudal system sucked.

If less people are killed by gun crime, is that not a right worth giving up? Sure, it means you can't shoot tyres in your backyard. Find another hobby. You needing to feel powerful shouldn't cost other people their lives. Go to the gym, put the gun away and stop being a pussy. You don't need a gun to feel like a man. Hiding behind 'its my right' doesn't make any sense. The right to bear arms was to help you form a militia if your government got out of hand. Well your government is out of hand, but you wouldn't win against it. The right is defunct. It doesn't fulfill its original purpose. It only enables school shootings and niggas holding up their local 7-Eleven.

Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2018, 09:50:51 PM »
It's not easy to get a gun here.  You can get a hunting rifle or shotgun easier than a handgun but you can't just say "I want a gun" you need a REASON to get a gun.  And "I need to protect my home from criminals" isn't good enough.  "I wanna hunt moose" usually is though.  But then you're limited to hunting rifles. 

Ah, yes, the classic "you need a reason to exercise this right"

But again, they're super regulated.  Cops can actually go to your house and inspect your gun safe at any time.  Warrant not needed.  So you know...

Oh dear, so you're telling me in addition to the second amendment, you'd like to see the fourth gone as well? What other rights bother you, Dave?

And hey, you're right.  1/3 less guns but way less mass shootings.  Maybe it has something to do with population?  The whole "most guns are outlawed"?  The mental health system everyone has free access to?
Just a thought.

Maybe it's because the amount of guns doesn't actually correlate to the amount of gun crime.

And I care because
1) I AM American.  I lived there for 32 god damn years.

You don't anymore, so it hardly matters what you think.

2) I do have friends and family there.

I hope they're not as morally disconcerting as you are.

I've been on this website for many years. And every major shooting gets a thread. And nothing changes. Not the frequency of the threads, the numbers of dead or the suggestions made.

It is never going to end.

That's because suggesting the banning of a right in order to prevent a crime is a fundamentally flawed argument. Imagine if a response to a rape epidemic was to castrate all men. No man really needs a penis, we can just start reproducing through artificial insemination. I'm sure rape rates will drop drastically as soon as we implement my game-changing law.

Wow...
Ok, first, at what point did I say "America should have the same laws as Norway"?  Because I never suggested that.  The right to bear arms is not written in the Norwegian constitution so it doesn't apply. 

Second, I KNOW the amount of guns don't correlate to gun violence.  Geeze.  It's the access to guns by mentally unstable or economically oppressed that causes gun violence.  If a sane, well adjusted person wants 100,000 guns, hey, why not? 

*

Offline Ghost Spaghetti

  • *
  • Posts: 908
  • Don't look in that mirror. It's absolutely furious
    • View Profile
Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2018, 09:08:03 AM »
Quote
If a sane, well adjusted person wants 100,000 guns, hey, why not? 

Because keeping track of 100,000 death machines is difficult and if the sane, well adjusted person has their absurd armoury robbed then that's 100,000 more guns on the streets of potentially less sane, well adjusted people.

Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2018, 09:21:11 AM »
Quote
If a sane, well adjusted person wants 100,000 guns, hey, why not? 

Because keeping track of 100,000 death machines is difficult and if the sane, well adjusted person has their absurd armoury robbed then that's 100,000 more guns on the streets of potentially less sane, well adjusted people.


Yeah, then he has to live with the guilt of knowing his guns are in the hands of bad guys.

*

Offline Ghost Spaghetti

  • *
  • Posts: 908
  • Don't look in that mirror. It's absolutely furious
    • View Profile
Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2018, 10:41:21 AM »
I do wonder how one could be considered to be sane and well-adjusted whilst owning 100,000 guns...

Surely a sane, well-adjusted person needs only the guns that they require. Let's say that they're an enthusiastic hunter and range shooter who lives in an area beset by home invasions and muggings, he'll need a couple of rifles or shotguns for hunting his prey (Preferably locked away without ammo) and a range of guns which can be safely stored at the range. Say a handgun for personal defence and a shotgun for home defence.

Does anyone realistically need any more weapons than that? If you're hoarding guns in your house I'd question just how well-adjusted you are anyway.

Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2018, 11:42:50 AM »
I do wonder how one could be considered to be sane and well-adjusted whilst owning 100,000 guns...

Surely a sane, well-adjusted person needs only the guns that they require. Let's say that they're an enthusiastic hunter and range shooter who lives in an area beset by home invasions and muggings, he'll need a couple of rifles or shotguns for hunting his prey (Preferably locked away without ammo) and a range of guns which can be safely stored at the range. Say a handgun for personal defence and a shotgun for home defence.

Does anyone realistically need any more weapons than that? If you're hoarding guns in your house I'd question just how well-adjusted you are anyway.

1. Collector. 
2. Historian
3. Gunsmith.
4. Home business (of selling guns)
5. Stockpile for the militia.

Also, just learned that of the 200 constitutions in the world, only America has unrestricted gun rights in it.  Mexico and Guatemala are the only other two that have the right to bear arms with restrictions.  Every other nation on Earth doesn't have that as a basic right of the people.

So... food for thought.

*

Offline Ghost Spaghetti

  • *
  • Posts: 908
  • Don't look in that mirror. It's absolutely furious
    • View Profile
Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2018, 01:28:22 PM »
1) Collector - Surely a collector would have them deactivated - otherwise I go back to my previous point that someone who collects hundreds of active guns is someone I would doubt the sanity of.

2)  Historian - Possibly. Though I'd hope that most would be deactivated unless they take part in displays of the weapons, in which case, surely they should be stored in the museum or institution, rather than some guy's house?

3) Gunsmith - Most of those gun will be parts, I would imagine?

4) Home business - Are you really allowed to sell guns as a home business in the USA?  Your country is very strange.

5) Militia - He isn't really gathering hundreds of guns for himself then. Still, surely a Militia wouldn't normally just be based out of someone's house?

Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2018, 01:33:16 PM »
1) Collector - Surely a collector would have them deactivated - otherwise I go back to my previous point that someone who collects hundreds of active guns is someone I would doubt the sanity of.
Why?
Not like it'll fire without a human or ammo.  Just keep it unloaded and it's fine.

Quote
2)  Historian - Possibly. Though I'd hope that most would be deactivated unless they take part in displays of the weapons, in which case, surely they should be stored in the museum or institution, rather than some guy's house?
You might as well as "why do people keep old baseball cards?  Why not put them in a museum?"

Quote
3) Gunsmith - Most of those gun will be parts, I would imagine?
Maybe.  Or he is going to use them for spare parts.

Quote
4) Home business - Are you really allowed to sell guns as a home business in the USA?  Your country is very strange.
Not a clue.  But probably in some states.

Quote
5) Militia - He isn't really gathering hundreds of guns for himself then. Still, surely a Militia wouldn't normally just be based out of someone's house?
Yeah it would.  Cause otherwise it's not a militia, it's the national guard or the army.

*

Offline Ghost Spaghetti

  • *
  • Posts: 908
  • Don't look in that mirror. It's absolutely furious
    • View Profile
Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2018, 01:53:34 PM »
1) Fair enough, but given the legislative power, I'd require them all to be registered, reasonably secured and subject to periodic checks.

2) Old baseball cards don't typically have the ability to kill scores of people in minutes.

3) Like point 1. I think that they should be heavily monitored if you're storing hundreds of guns in your house/ business

4) As I said, your country is very strange.

5) I assumed the 'well regulated' part of the 2nd would mean that it has to have some sort of registered headquarters, keep the weapons secured and registered, etc. The idea that Bob from down the street can just decide to start an armed militia in his garage is baffling and terrifying to me.

Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2018, 05:30:56 PM »
1) Fair enough, but given the legislative power, I'd require them all to be registered, reasonably secured and subject to periodic checks.

2) Old baseball cards don't typically have the ability to kill scores of people in minutes.

3) Like point 1. I think that they should be heavily monitored if you're storing hundreds of guns in your house/ business

4) As I said, your country is very strange.

5) I assumed the 'well regulated' part of the 2nd would mean that it has to have some sort of registered headquarters, keep the weapons secured and registered, etc. The idea that Bob from down the street can just decide to start an armed militia in his garage is baffling and terrifying to me.
https://republicofflorida.wordpress.com/
There's a militia.
Here's a less scary one.
http://www.iiisecurityforce.com/home.html

No idea where they're based but I'd wager someone's ranch or home.

*

Offline Rama Set

  • *
  • Posts: 4365
  • Round and round...
    • View Profile
Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2018, 06:44:54 PM »
The use of the word “regulated” at the time meant equipped or outfitted.
Technically the explanation for why the sun sets at higher altitudes is also "waves," and whatnot.

Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2018, 09:47:30 PM »
the second amendment should be repealed and replaced
shitposting leftists are never alone

*

Offline junker

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7145
  • Boom
    • View Profile
Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2018, 10:44:01 PM »
the second amendment should be repealed and replaced

This is where the argument needs to go if people actually want change.

Arguing over the existing 2A doesn't get anywhere. Maybe that is the point.
Please make sure to check out these resources to ensure that your time at tfes.org is enjoyable and productive.

1. The Rules

2. The FAQ

3. The Wiki

You're doing God's work, junker.

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • *
  • Posts: 6633
  • (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2018, 10:14:58 AM »
I guess the other question is if it is at all likely for 2A to be changed/repealed in the current political climate. It's a two-thirds majority in both houses, isn't it? Perhaps the reason people are focusing on circumventing it is that they think they're marginally more likely to be successful?
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Facebook and Twitter!

Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2018, 12:54:17 PM »
I guess the other question is if it is at all likely for 2A to be changed/repealed in the current political climate. It's a two-thirds majority in both houses, isn't it? Perhaps the reason people are focusing on circumventing it is that they think they're marginally more likely to be successful?
Yeah, I don't see it being changed even if the Democrats controlled both houses of congress 100%.

Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2018, 05:13:39 PM »
tbh i wouldn't actually want any amendment to be negotiated by these political parties.  i don't think either side would do it in good faith.
shitposting leftists are never alone