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Offline AATW

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Re: Car in Space
« Reply #80 on: February 08, 2018, 09:08:32 PM »
The only thing I asked you to prove is that there is in fact a roadster in orbit. Instead of saying "I can't" you'd rather post incorrectly about fallacies
OK, fine. I'll admit it. I can't prove it. You win. The earth is flat. Well done.

But...hang on, can you prove the existence of the "shadow object" which no-one has ever observed but apparently in your model causes lunar eclipses?
And if your response is "well, something must be casting the shadow" then my retort is "Yes, it's the earth but in your model the sun and moon are both above the plane so you had to make up some object in between them to try and explain it". I'm talking to myself now so I'll stop.

Point is, I cannot prove there is a roadster in space (not in orbit actually, isn't it just heading for outer space?).
How can I possibly prove that absolutely? It's a ridiculous thing for you to ask. But there are a load of things you can't prove about your flat earth model either
One thing you could prove is the distance to the sun or moon with some observations and triangulation, it's telling that my repeated suggestions about this have been met with a stony silence.

What I can say quite confidently is there was a rocket launch. It's all on film, there were numerous witnesses many of whom took their own footage.
I've not heard any reports of anyone who saw the rocket come down anywhere - apart from those boosters which landed again as intended.
It was all live streamed so there is plenty of video of the whole thing.
So on the balance of probabilities it seems to me that this happened and there is indeed a roadster in space right now.
There is clearly no way of proving this absolutely but you could say that about anything.

Could it all have been faked? Well, the launch not. The live stream, maybe not completely impossible but technically difficult I would suggest.
The question for you though is do you have any evidence or proof of fakery?
What reason do you have to doubt it happened?

And it seems to me the answer to that is that if you accepted this really happened then it would mean you have to abandon your flat earth beliefs.
And you're so invested in it that cognitive dissonance is not letting you do that.
So rather than consider this new evidence and re-evaluating your beliefs about the shape of the earth you have to dismiss this as fake.
This is not healthy scepticism, it's just denial.

If I'm wrong and you have some actual evidence that it was faked then please present it so I and others can evaluate it.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Re: Car in Space
« Reply #81 on: February 08, 2018, 09:18:43 PM »
The car was heading towards Mars, but they’ve calculated the tradgectory and it is likely to miss, swing past and continue to head into space. Although there is an asteroid field that may, or may not, stop it’s advance onwards.

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: Car in Space
« Reply #82 on: February 08, 2018, 09:48:40 PM »
You are dismissing it though.
Okay, well, if you're not willing to accept that I probably know my own intentions better than you do, I sincerely doubt that this conversation is going to take us anywhere at all.

Pete, I would like to know whether you think the launch was real or not. Do you think the live feed was fake? If I remember, you do seem to be one of the FEers who was more open to the concept of space. (yes, I know that is oddly worded, but I think you know what I mean)
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

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Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: Car in Space
« Reply #83 on: February 09, 2018, 03:15:38 AM »
There's easy ways we can prove this happened. The easiest is by comparing the video with cloud data.

I did it here!: https://imgur.com/a/iMZMQ



Compare the top image (frame from video) and bottom image (Australian Bureau of Meteorology cloud data).

The top image is at 3:40:25. The live stream started about 15-20 minutes after launch, so we can say this frame is about 4 hours after launch. The rocket launched at 15:45 ET on Tuesday, meaning this frame was from 19:45 ET on Tuesday. This frame from the video shows Australia, so we know the frame was taken at 10:45 AEST on Wednesday (time zones are crazy).

Now, the bottom image shows the clouds at 13:30 AEST on Wednesday, about 3 hours AFTER the time in the video. Compare the cloud covers. Compare the shape of the clouds. Can't see it? Allow me to show you: https://imgur.com/a/dML4O



How could SpaceX know what the cloud covers looked like in real time? You can even see them moving! Compare a frame from the beginning of the video (28:18) to the 3:40:25 one: https://imgur.com/a/Tv9hS



For the first image, you can see that Australia is MUCH closer to the terminator line than in the image 3 hours later. The clouds appear to have shifted slightly as well over the 3 hours. The top of the cloud band at the bottom of the first frame has moved between frames (in the latter image it moves with Australia), but if you look at the cloud's shape, it still changed. Compare any frame. Not only do they match up with the cloud cover data, but they match up with satellite imagery (fake tho, right? /s). It would be extraordinarily difficult to fake this in real time. All observation tools and data has some kind of delay, usually hourly, or quarter-hourly, and to predict where the clouds will be this precisely is impossible. The data shows it was live. The data matches with the video, showing the video to be real, or all the data and the video to be fake. The only other explanation I have is that Musk has a time machine and observed the cloud patterns before the launch.

Additionally, there were independent observers that saw the second stage fire up again to send the car into a heliocentric orbit. Check out this video from an observatory:

or this image:

or this image:

You can even see the moon in some shots! 30:30 - 31:57 as it enters from the bottom left corner, passes behind the car, and reappears and leaves in the bottom right corner. 1:07:19 - 1:07:32 in the bottom under the engine bell. 1:14:17 - 1:14:32 to the left of the engine bell. 1:21:25 - 1:21:35 in the top left. 2:55:16 - 2:55:59 appearing from the top moving right. 3:18:22 - 3:18:34 in the bottom left. 3:19:54 - 3:20:00 in the bottom right. 3:41:21 - 3:41:36 above the engine bell moving down. Real faint. 3:41:37 - 3:41:46 in the bottom left. 3:48:36 - 3:48:46 in the left. 3:55:21 - 3:55:35 in the bottom left of the bell. 3:55:36 - 3:55:46 in the top left of the bell, real faint.

Those are all the ones I found. I'm sure there are a few more though.

In my opinion this was absolutely real, and shows that the Earth really is round. But, believe what you want. Only you can decide what to believe, I can only provide my information to you.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 04:59:24 AM by nickrulercreator »
This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today.

Re: Car in Space
« Reply #84 on: February 09, 2018, 04:10:30 AM »
Great contribution Nick.

I really hope that convinces at least one person to reconsider.

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Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: Car in Space
« Reply #85 on: February 09, 2018, 04:25:05 AM »
Great contribution Nick.

I really hope that convinces at least one person to reconsider.

Thanks. It won't though. Sadly. Maybe it will for those on the border but not for those who are hardcore believers. It will likely be ignored or passed off as "fake cgi."
This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today.

Re: Car in Space
« Reply #86 on: February 09, 2018, 06:13:03 AM »
You want proof the car is in space? There's another thread here with video of the ISS transiting the sun. That will be dismissed as fake, so please, you tell US what proof would satisfy you if actual ground based video observations aren't satisfactory.

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Offline AATW

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Re: Car in Space
« Reply #87 on: February 09, 2018, 09:41:23 AM »
There's easy ways we can prove this happened. The easiest is by comparing the video with cloud data.
Wow. That is a brilliant post. Great analysis.
As I said above, the FE mentality is not healthy scepticism, it's just denial. I've said previously you can do this with anything.

"I don't believe in kangaroos"
"Here's a picture of one"
"Fake!"
"OK..here's some video of one hopping about, you think that could be faked?"
"Have you seen Jurassic Park? Is that real too?"
"I've been to Australia and seen them!"
"Liar! You're part of the great kangaroo conspiracy!"
"OK...look, now we're at the zoo. There's a kangaroo"
"That's clearly animatronic..."

And so on. You can prove anything to yourself if you ignore all the evidence showing you're wrong. The FE mentality starts with the assertion that the earth is flat. How they came to that conclusion remains a mystery to me. But then everything else is wrapped around that. Changing their minds is not an option so when new evidence comes in their only concern is "how do I explain this away". Which in most cases like this just involves shouting "Fake!" and running away without presenting a scrap of evidence that it was faked.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 10:12:35 AM by AllAroundTheWorld »
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Car in Space
« Reply #88 on: February 09, 2018, 10:34:04 AM »
It seems as though you are insinuating that you think it is false but refuse to actually say it because you cannot justify it. Lets face it, you know it was real but your preconceived belief procludes you from admitting it. The only thing you can do is compartmentalize it so you don't have to address it.

As much as your programming wants you to dismiss it, I believe deep down you know it to be true.

Am I wrong?
Sounds to me like you have a very strong preconceived notion about who I am and how I behave. It completely contradicts my day-to-day behaviour. You are wrong, and would do well to listen to your own advice about breaking out of paradigms.

Pete, I would like to know whether you think the launch was real or not. Do you think the live feed was fake? If I remember, you do seem to be one of the FEers who was more open to the concept of space. (yes, I know that is oddly worded, but I think you know what I mean)
I am undecided as of yet. I have my reasons to doubt it, but doubt is not the default state for me. I'm working through it at my own pace, and it may yet turn out that I'll simply remain undecided about this particular event. You won't hear any pompous and brazen statements from me at this stage - I only do that when I'm fairly strongly convinced of something.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 10:43:55 AM by Pete Svarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

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Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: Car in Space
« Reply #89 on: February 09, 2018, 01:55:10 PM »
I also found an independent video, showing that they spotted Starman in space on its way to a solar orbit!



The person then calculated the path of the object, and it turned out to match what Musk posted online.
This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today.

Re: Car in Space
« Reply #90 on: February 09, 2018, 07:43:57 PM »
It seems as though you are insinuating that you think it is false but refuse to actually say it because you cannot justify it. Lets face it, you know it was real but your preconceived belief procludes you from admitting it. The only thing you can do is compartmentalize it so you don't have to address it.

As much as your programming wants you to dismiss it, I believe deep down you know it to be true.

Am I wrong?
Sounds to me like you have a very strong preconceived notion about who I am and how I behave. It completely contradicts my day-to-day behaviour. You are wrong, and would do well to listen to your own advice about breaking out of paradigms.

Pete, I would like to know whether you think the launch was real or not. Do you think the live feed was fake? If I remember, you do seem to be one of the FEers who was more open to the concept of space. (yes, I know that is oddly worded, but I think you know what I mean)
I am undecided as of yet. I have my reasons to doubt it, but doubt is not the default state for me. I'm working through it at my own pace, and it may yet turn out that I'll simply remain undecided about this particular event. You won't hear any pompous and brazen statements from me at this stage - I only do that when I'm fairly strongly convinced of something.

I am pleased that I am wrong, but in light of the scant details you have provided, that was the most accurate assessment I could formulate.

As I mentioned, my paradigm has been repeatedly shattered, at this point, instead of tryint to erect another one, I try to take in as much info as possible and make the best sense of it I can. I cannot imagine any new data that would surprise me anymore.

When I first heard about flat earth, I was skeptical as I am with everything, but I also knew that most conspiracy theories have some elements of truth. Some of my family were into it so I figured I should check it our with an open mind.

I was disappointed this time. I challenge almost every aspect of mainstream science, particularly in physics, so I am fairly predisposed in entertaining typical ideas.

I just want to know what I am missing i.e. how others find it compelling.

Re: Car in Space
« Reply #91 on: February 10, 2018, 09:39:20 AM »
Apparently the FES tweeted this is fake... yet no one in here seems to agree with the FES twitter, who are they representing?

https://www.space.com/39628-flat-earthers-spacex-falcon-heavy-conspiracy.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Car in Space
« Reply #92 on: February 10, 2018, 09:54:11 PM »
NASA and the NOAA control the most advanced weather monitoring systems on earth. The government has radar stations, weather monitoring buoys, and weather balloons deployed world wide, and has direct feeds to the weather data of many countries.

Why wouldn't they plug that data into their images of the earth? Even the local weather man can overlay weather data over an image on televison...
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 10:03:00 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Car in Space
« Reply #93 on: February 10, 2018, 10:00:00 PM »
NASA and the NOAA control the most advanced weather monitoring systems on earth. The government has radar stations and weather balloons deployed world wide and has direct feeds to the weather data of many countries.

Why wouldn't they plug that data into their images of the earth? Even the local weather man can overlay weather data over an image on televison...
Please explain what yoou mean by plugging data.

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Offline AATW

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Re: Car in Space
« Reply #94 on: February 10, 2018, 11:36:47 PM »
NASA and the NOAA control the most advanced weather monitoring systems on earth. The government has radar stations, weather monitoring buoys, and weather balloons deployed world wide, and has direct feeds to the weather data of many countries.

Why wouldn't they plug that data into their images of the earth? Even the local weather man can overlay weather data over an image on televison...
So you believe this launch was faked?
I mean, obviously you have to believe that because cognitive dissonance won't let you accept it is real, otherwise you'd have to accept the globe earth.
But what actual evidence do you have for fakery?
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: Car in Space
« Reply #95 on: February 10, 2018, 11:40:15 PM »
NASA and the NOAA control the most advanced weather monitoring systems on earth. The government has radar stations, weather monitoring buoys, and weather balloons deployed world wide, and has direct feeds to the weather data of many countries.

Why wouldn't they plug that data into their images of the earth? Even the local weather man can overlay weather data over an image on televison...

Tom, then why would they make it look so fake then? Why not have CGI that looks like the "CGI" from the ISS? Why not make it look like the movie gravity? Why does it look like something someone with 5 minutes of experience with photoshop, blender, etc did?

Also, what was the exhaust people observed over California then, or the video of the second stage burning from the observatory in Arizona? What about those independent trackers that actually calculated Starman's orbit based on their observations? How did SpaceX fake that?
This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today.

Re: Car in Space
« Reply #96 on: February 11, 2018, 05:23:08 AM »
To be fair, the image of the clouds is from a satellite, so of course they are going to agree. The question is why, and you have two possible explanations:
- The pictures agree because two independent satellites are observing the same objective truth.
- The pictures agree because the feed from one satellite is being faked using the same data source as the other faked satellite, either fake cloud data, or real data reconstructed from the alleged large network of surface sensors.

Yes, this would involve realtime 3-D rendering etc that would be difficult. I clearly favor the "objective truth" explanation, but if you already believe all images from space are faked I'm not sure how confirming that two fake images are identical is going to change any minds.

Re: Car in Space
« Reply #97 on: February 11, 2018, 08:03:00 AM »
I dont know if this has been asked before or not if so i do apologize. Even if the earth was flat, which i believe it to be round, What would nasa or anyone care to cover it up or fake anything? What point would there be? Because people would still continue to do the same things they do now day after day, go to work, have sex (i know i would)  drive etc.. Things would not come to a stop or the world erupt into chaos. Folks would still go on vacation, have kids and drive cars just as we do now.. We as a human race have been doing these very things for years and if the world was flat we would still continue to do so. Even if there were a special news bulletin saying folks we have just found out the planet we live on is flat, folks would be surprised and talk about this for a few weeks and life in general would return to normal. We as the human race have been doing fine for thousands of years and things have worked fine so far so there would be no great gotcha moment that would bring life as we know it to a standstill... We would carry on just fine.. Thanks
     Kasparov-- A round Earther in the sense losing a few pounds would be a good thing.

Offline Ratboy

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Re: Car in Space
« Reply #98 on: February 12, 2018, 03:59:33 AM »
The idea that the weather shown on the live feed is just the same fake information NASA provides has two big plot flaws in my opinion:
1) Once again NASA has proven themselves to be the worst organization for managing a fake scenario. As mentioned in other threads, they willingly show themselves to be close to incompetent, fat, slow to change and their budgets suffer because of it.  They pretend to kill 14 astronauts due to managerial errors.  Now they provide SpaceX with a fake weather feed that fits into the Round Earth fraud.  SpaceX supposedly launched a rocket for a fraction of what NASA can do it for.  This is a huge threat to their budgets.  If I was in charge of NASA, I would have provided yesterday's weather feed to SpaceX so that I could prove it was indeed a fake.  Thereby my budget would be safe that much longer.
2) As I harp on about on this site, the whole FE theory is arrogant in that it ignores that people chose to live south of the equator.  If you stay in England, you can look at a weather map of the globe showing clouds and pronounce that it is a fake.  This is a slap in the face of all the people that are living under those clouds, in say Mauritius, or Rikitea. You can claim the maps of the earth are fake and distances shown are fake and they well could be except that people living in Vaitape know it is not 7000 miles to Hanga Roa, as a flat earth map might show.  NASA would have a hell of a time producing a fake weather map that shows clouds circling a round earth and then also have to show the clouds that actually exist over the Albatross Bar in Edinburgh of the Seven Seas and then have the clouds move to be seen arriving at Cape Town at the correct time.  People living in these places know if it is cloudy or clear and would scream conspiracy if the NASA weather maps did not jive with their local weather.  If you sit in your back yard in Boston and ignore that there might be smart people in other continents, you can be a flat earther.  People in Sydney watch the sun circle the south pole.  To ignore them is to be arrogant.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Car in Space
« Reply #99 on: February 23, 2018, 04:55:15 PM »
People in Sydney watch the sun circle the south pole.  To ignore them is to be arrogant.
Fascinating. When I visited a fellow FE'er in Sydney, he neglected to tell me that there's a vantage point from which you can see the South Pole, and the Sun circling around it. It would have been quite a sight to behold!
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume