[Pete Svarrior]

I'm not the only one, could it possibly be you worded it in a way that could be taken more than one way purposely to make argument?

By "the situation" I mean what people may or may not have seen during the launch, not my words just now.

[ryjay707]

I'm not the only one, could it possibly be you worded it in a way that could be taken more than one way purposely to make argument?

By "the situation" I mean what people may or may not have seen during the launch, not my words just now.

Really Pete? Is that the only part you're going to make a comment on? You're just going to ignore the rest? You're just going to leave another vague response Pete?

Pete, This is exactly what we're talking about, you keep saying "Nuh Uh" doing basically nothing more than "Nuh Uh" without giving any decent sort of debate. Meanwhile we're giving logical responses that can't be misinterpreted. How does this make you any different from Religious nuts saying their religion is the right one because the book someone wrote thousands of years ago is the right book. Or the people saying that the mass shootings are all staged by the governments to warrant war against whatever, whoever?  You have to provide logical information to be perceived as anything more than just a troll Pete. You can't just pick and choose whatever response you want to make another vague, moot reply to and think you're making the intelligent response by only giving a half-assed response to one portion. 

[Pete Svarrior]

I didn't state an opinion on the subject. If you guys want to argue against what you've decided my opinion is, that's fine by me.

[ryjay707]

I didn't state an opinion on the subject. If you guys want to argue against what you've decided my opinion is, that's fine by me.

Okay Pete, what's your opinion then?

[Pete Svarrior]

I do not yet have an opinion strong enough to bring to the table. That's why I haven't brought one. Unlike some of the more zealous individuals here, I don't make snap decisions about things like this.

[ryjay707]

I do not yet have an opinion strong enough to bring to the table. That's why I haven't brought one. Unlike some of the more zealous individuals here, I don't make snap decisions about things like this.

So witnessing an event in multiple viewpoints, then making a decision based off of what we witnessed first hand makes us "zealous individuals making snap decisions"? Are you saying something could have been faked with what we saw? That someone could have on-the-fly edited the video to make it exactly what we saw at the same moment?

[NorseMythology]

I see Pete has put something on the home page along the lines of "Just because I saw it on the internet, doesn't mean it's true".

To be clear, the intention of that post was not to assert that it's false (though you can guess my thoughts on the matter). It is mostly an appeal to the immense number of people who contacted me (mostly on Facebook and Twitter) to take things with more caution. If, after evaluating the material carefully, they personally decide that it's of value to them, fine. But it's not the "gotcha!" many think it is.

This was in relation to features for the Tesla and not that he doesn't believe Musk in general.

Of course. It was not for one moment my intention to suggest that Wozniak said "omg the Earth is flat!" - merely to point out that corporations don't even trust one another. I provided a link to the source for those who want to read it in its full context.

When you say "though you can guess my thoughts on the matter" do you not find that telling? What I read is that you know other people know that your belief supersedes apparent reality.

In other words, you are almost admitting that your default position is set, regardless of the evidence to the contrary. You HAVE to believe it is somehow a fraud otherwise all of your time invested in this paradigm is for nothing.

I don't say this to belittle you, we all operate on some sort of programming, but once you realize that "my god, I cannot escape my program because anything that challenges it must vis a vis be wrong" it should throw up red flags in your brain.

Let me assume that what I said somehow got past your programming and you got my message, now what do you do? Do you throw away everything FE related? Not necessarily. If you know NASA has lie, and that is true regardless of your FE belief, you must then ask yourself, okay if NASA wasnt lying or covering up a flat earth, what the fuck was NASA lying for or covering up.

Avail yourself to truth, don't assume you have it and make reality conform around it.

[Rushy]

The SpaceX "car in space" really tests the limits of the public perception of space and space travel. If you can convince someone so easily of something as absurd as launching an open top convertible into space, then surely there's no better evidence that your audience is gullible? Imagine if I broadcasted a video that Vulcans have come to Earth in a first contact scenario and people actually believed it happened. The implications are disturbing. If I can convince you of something cheesy and obviously fake, then of course I can convince you of something much more believable with manufactured evidence, like going to war with Russia, China, or North Korea, for example.

[Curious Squirrel]

The SpaceX "car in space" really tests the limits of the public perception of space and space travel. If you can convince someone so easily of something as absurd as launching an open top convertible into space, then surely there's no better evidence that your audience is gullible? Imagine if I broadcasted a video that Vulcans have come to Earth in a first contact scenario and people actually believed it happened. The implications are disturbing. If I can convince you of something cheesy and obviously fake, then of course I can convince you of something much more believable with manufactured evidence, like going to war with Russia, China, or North Korea, for example.

Mind laying out how you know the video feed from the Tesla is 'obviously fake' and 'cheesy' by any chance? Since that is the sticking point, as the launch of the rockets themselves can't really be denied, only what happened 'in orbit' and mostly out of view of public eyes.

[Rushy]

Mind laying out how you know the video feed from the Tesla is 'obviously fake' and 'cheesy' by any chance? Since that is the sticking point, as the launch of the rockets themselves can't really be denied, only what happened 'in orbit' and mostly out of view of public eyes.

Ah, yes, the classical "prove it isn't there" approach. Perhaps you'd like to read this amazing article in Wikipedia called Russell's Teapot and then make your claim again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot.

[xenotolerance]

I mean, there's the famous example of the first war of the worlds broadcast. People do tend to accept what they see or hear at face value. Skepticism is a good thing. Y'all though, you are not skeptics, because you don't accept good evidence for what it is. You are not disillusioned, but in denial.

I.e., 'Too ridiculous to be true' is not a worthy evaluation of the evidence. Get specific, focus your argument. How was the footage made, where and when, by whom, why, can it be corroborated, is there lasting evidence, and so on, are questions to address in really evaluating this evidence.

My evaluation is, it's real. If you disagree, I invite debate.

[Zanz]

Falcon Heavy is so far, the best proof of spaceflight. Most of the typical Flat Earthers arguments don't apply here,

Its fake CGI! - no, thousands of people watched the launch in real life.
It was a holographic projection! - A hologram that can project hundreds of kilometers up into the sky, without any clear buffering/problems? Tell me more about it!
The Launch was real, but the Tesla is fake! - We know the second stage is real, because people saw the second stage firing in the night sky with their own cameras and telescopes, wich is impossible to project at such height with a hologram. So if the second stage is real, why not plop a Tesla and a live camera on it right? And what proof do you have that it was Fake? There are no stars and sattelites! Thats proof its fake and satellites don't exist!. Nope, you might notice the camera quality isn't the best on the live cam, so why do you expect to see stars and satellites, seriously, try and take a picture of a starry night sky with your iphone, you can't? Not to mention the sunlight and the Earth that helps along with scattering the sunlight, that make it extremely difficult to film stars.

[Rushy]

I mean, there's the famous example of the first war of the worlds broadcast. People do tend to accept what they see or hear at face value. Skepticism is a good thing. Y'all though, you are not skeptics, because you don't accept good evidence for what it is. You are not disillusioned, but in denial.

I.e., 'Too ridiculous to be true' is not a worthy evaluation of the evidence. Get specific, focus your argument. How was the footage made, where and when, by whom, why, can it be corroborated, is there lasting evidence, and so on, are questions to address in really evaluating this evidence.

My evaluation is, it's real. If you disagree, I invite debate.

How did you verify that there is currently a roadster in orbit right now?

[Curious Squirrel]

Mind laying out how you know the video feed from the Tesla is 'obviously fake' and 'cheesy' by any chance? Since that is the sticking point, as the launch of the rockets themselves can't really be denied, only what happened 'in orbit' and mostly out of view of public eyes.

Ah, yes, the classical "prove it isn't there" approach. Perhaps you'd like to read this amazing article in Wikipedia called Russell's Teapot and then make your claim again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot.

Ah the classic deflection approach. We have live feed from the car. You claim it's 'obviously fake' for some reason. What reason do you have for this? It's a pretty simple question. Russel's teapot has nothing to do with it, as I'm not asking you to prove the car isn't there. I don't care about that. I'm asking you to back your apparent claim that the live feed from the car is 'obviously fake'.

[Rushy]

Mind laying out how you know the video feed from the Tesla is 'obviously fake' and 'cheesy' by any chance? Since that is the sticking point, as the launch of the rockets themselves can't really be denied, only what happened 'in orbit' and mostly out of view of public eyes.

Ah, yes, the classical "prove it isn't there" approach. Perhaps you'd like to read this amazing article in Wikipedia called Russell's Teapot and then make your claim again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot.

Ah the classic deflection approach. We have live feed from the car. You claim it's 'obviously fake' for some reason. What reason do you have for this? It's a pretty simple question. Russel's teapot has nothing to do with it, as I'm not asking you to prove the car isn't there. I don't care about that. I'm asking you to back your apparent claim that the live feed from the car is 'obviously fake'.

Perhaps you'd like me to show you a verified picture of Tatooine, Luke Skywalker's home planet, in order to show you that a long time ago in a very far away galaxy there once existed an Empire and a bunch of rascally rebels?

[xenotolerance]

Rushy, that's tu quoque. Deflection. Present your own reasoning and stop dancing like a troll

[phayes9891]

I do not yet have an opinion strong enough to bring to the table. That's why I haven't brought one. Unlike some of the more zealous individuals here, I don't make snap decisions about things like this.

Hahahahahahaha
Things like what? Whether space travel is legitimate or not? If you watched the many videos or were actually there than you've seen it. Also there are now photographs of the lunar landings from satellites.

Whether the earth is a globe or flat is not a debate anymore, it hasn't been for quite a while. This is more like a few people arguing that 2+2 equals 538. When it clearly doesn't and there is absolutely no evidence to suggest it does. Every single explanation I've seen on here and other places like YouTube is very flawed, with most not even understanding basic science.

Do you realize transporting things into space is how SpaceX makes money? Do you think other companies are paying them to pretend to launch their satellites into space? Do you understand how ridiculous of an argument that is?

[Rushy]

Rushy, that's tu quoque. Deflection. Present your own reasoning and stop dancing like a troll

The Fallacy Fallacy is not an argument. Your failure to address my point, regardless of whether or not it is fallacious (it isn't) is its own form of deflection. Perhaps you should answer the very to-the-point question I asked you earlier instead of busying yourself addressing non-existent fallacies.

[ryjay707]

Rushy, that's tu quoque. Deflection. Present your own reasoning and stop dancing like a troll

The Fallacy Fallacy is not an argument. Your failure to address my point, regardless of whether or not it is fallacious (it isn't) is its own form of deflection. Perhaps you should answer the very to-the-point question I asked you earlier instead of busying yourself addressing non-existent fallacies.

Rushy, the same logic can be applied against yours. Prove that it's not real, thousands of people including myself watched this being launched into space, watched it being released, watched it going further and further out. How can you prove that what I saw, when you didn't see it, fake? Again this comes down to the same nonsense as the religious fanatics saying their bible is the right bible because it's what's written on the paper. Or The Mass shootings were staged, or government planned. People were there, People saw it. You didn't see it, so you want proof. But any video proof people give you, you automatically turn against it with "It's a video, it's not proof".... So how on earth are we supposed to prove to you that we were there, when even if we gave you proof you'd automatically say it's fake? You're really open minded....

Also, Admins who keep deleting comments when people are trying to have a discussion, Why do you keep doing that?

And Pete, I'm still waiting to hear why you say you have no opinion, yet dismiss the people who claim they were actually there and tell them that their decision is Zealous and a snappy decision.

[xenotolerance]

That's literally tu quoque, again. But whatever

I saw the live feed of the car in space, and the footage of the rocket launch taken from onboard cameras and people on the ground, and accepted the evidence. It scanned with my knowledge of optics, sound, and space travel, so I'm happy to believe we put a car into space.

Your turn