[AATW]

That's fine. You guys saw what you saw, you reached your own conclusions. I may disagree, but I see no issue with disagreeing.

But...this isn't like some "UFO" footage where it's some smudge and people can interpret how they like. This was a rocket launch all in full HD and reported by basically every major news agency and witnessed by hundreds of people and there was then a live stream from it. I don't think we are leaping to conclusions here.
You need to provide some basis for thinking that something underhand was going on and a quote from Wozniak which was based on being let down about Tesla's claims about its cars is pretty flimsy.

Of course the game is still on. The Flat Earth Movement is growing rapidly.

It is, but Trump won an election too and "post truth" was "word of the year in 2016. We do seem to be living in an era where people increasingly don't seem to care what is true. I wouldn't say that the growth of the Flat Earth Movement is a sign of you winning the argument, for me it's a rather depressing sign of the times.

[xenotolerance]

Plus, popularity is not a metric flat Earth believers should reference regarding the game, so to speak.

[ryjay707]

That's fine. You guys saw what you saw, you reached your own conclusions. I may disagree, but I see no issue with disagreeing.

So wait, You disagree that we were legitimately there and watched this thing launch off into space? So, are you saying we're all lying, and our video footage of those of us who were physically there are somehow all faked and don't actually show a rocket being sent out of the planet?

It's starting to sound like one of those nuts that think that the mass shooting in Vegas was faked by the government.

[gus]

That's fine. You guys saw what you saw, you reached your own conclusions. I may disagree, but I see no issue with disagreeing.

So wait, You disagree that we were legitimately there and watched this thing launch off into space?

Do answer this Svarrior. Because I live not far from Cape Canaveral, and I can attest to the fact that a big rocket-shaped object could be seen leaving the atmosphere from my backyard yesterday afternoon.

[markjo]

Does anyone know what is next for SpaceX? Are they one of the companies planning an imminent lunar mission?

If they can get their Crewed Dragon certified for human flight, then they're supposed to be sending 2 unnamed gazillionaires on a lunar flyby flight this coming December (although I wouldn't be surprised if the date slips more than once).
http://www.spacex.com/news/2017/02/27/spacex-send-privately-crewed-dragon-spacecraft-beyond-moon-next-year

[Pete Svarrior]

So wait, You disagree that we were legitimately there and watched this thing launch off into space?

No. I have no way of ascertaining where you were at the time. I don't know kw how you Interpreted "You guys saw what you saw." as polemic.

That said I do assume you don't have the x-ray vision required to actually directly see the rocket reach space.

It is, but Trump won an election too and "post truth" was "word of the year in 2016. We do seem to be living in an era where people increasingly don't seem to care what is true. I wouldn't say that the growth of the Flat Earth Movement is a sign of you winning the argument, for me it's a rather depressing sign of the times.

That's only natural. Your side is losing ground at a rapid pace. I would expect you to be nothing but disappointed about it.

[Curious Squirrel]

Pete, or any other FEr really. Any chance of some analysis and actual reasons why you believe the video from the car is fake? Because at present it appears to simply be 'because it is' rather than actual reasons. How do you know it's fake? Or what makes you believe it is? Is it simply that you believe in FE so firmly the fact it shows a round Earth is enough to dismiss it? If not, if you're willing to actually examine it as evidence that can potentially prove a globe Earth, what to you shows it's fake?

[NorseMythology]

I see Pete has put something on the home page along the lines of "Just because I saw it on the internet, doesn't mean it's true".

To be clear, the intention of that post was not to assert that it's false (though you can guess my thoughts on the matter). It is mostly an appeal to the immense number of people who contacted me (mostly on Facebook and Twitter) to take things with more caution. If, after evaluating the material carefully, they personally decide that it's of value to them, fine. But it's not the "gotcha!" many think it is.

This was in relation to features for the Tesla and not that he doesn't believe Musk in general.

Of course. It was not for one moment my intention to suggest that Wozniak said "omg the Earth is flat!" - merely to point out that corporations don't even trust one another. I provided a link to the source for those who want to read it in its full context.

When you say "though you can guess my thoughts on the matter" do you not find that telling? What I read is that you know other people know that your belief supersedes apparent reality.

In other words, you are almost admitting that your default position is set, regardless of the evidence to the contrary. You HAVE to believe it is somehow a fraud otherwise all of your time invested in this paradigm is for nothing.

I don't say this to belittle you, we all operate on some sort of programming, but once you realize that "my god, I cannot escape my program because anything that challenges it must vis a vis be wrong" it should throw up red flags in your brain.

Let me assume that what I said somehow got past your programming and you got my message, now what do you do? Do you throw away everything FE related? Not necessarily. If you know NASA has lie, and that is true regardless of your FE belief, you must then ask yourself, okay if NASA wasnt lying or covering up a flat earth, what the fuck was NASA lying for or covering up.

Avail yourself to truth, don't assume you have it and make reality conform around it.

[kser]

Space X did a live stream of a car being launched into space on a rocket. In the video the earth is clearly round. Why/how would they fake this?

Can someone explain me, In this video at 01:51:51 why doesnt earth have a single piece of land ??

[ryjay707]

So wait, You disagree that we were legitimately there and watched this thing launch off into space?

No. I have no way of ascertaining where you were at the time. I don't know kw how you Interpreted "You guys saw what you saw." as polemic.

That said I do assume you don't have the x-ray vision required to actually directly see the rocket reach space.

So from your perspective, all of the videos that you've seen of the rocket launching could have been faked, since you were not there? I'm just trying to understand your logic. I'm basing this comment off of: "That's fine. You guys saw what you saw, you reached your own conclusions. I may disagree, but I see no issue with disagreeing." Which reads to most people as even though we say what we saw, you disagree with what we saw. Much like how AllAroundTheWorld put it: "But...this isn't like some "UFO" footage where it's some smudge and people can interpret how they like. This was a rocket launch all in full HD and reported by basically every major news agency and witnessed by hundreds of people and there was then a live stream from it. I don't think we are leaping to conclusions here.".

Also I didn't know x-ray gave a telescopic property but... Did you know, that there are these really awesome focal devices called telescopes, binoculars, telescopic camera lenses? They allow you to see very far away, much further than the human eye, are easy to obtain, and let you see things after they are too far away for you to see with your naked eyes.

Can someone explain me, In this video at 01:51:51 why doesnt earth have a single piece of land ??

Oceans are very large, 70% of the Earth large, it's not too farfetched to think that it was over a part of the ocean where land wasn't able to be seen.

[AATW]

Can someone explain me, In this video at 01:51:51 why doesnt earth have a single piece of land ??

Well, 71% of the earth is covered in ocean and you don't see the whole globe in the section you mention.
Towards the left of the image there's something which looks like it could be land but it is admittedly hard to tell.
If they faked it all you'd think they'd have put some land in, more likely that shot just shows mostly ocean which is not implausible given how much of the earth is covered in ocean.

[Pete Svarrior]

So from your perspective, all of the videos that you've seen of the rocket launching could have been faked, since you were not there?

No, my presence at the launch site would have had no impact on the video's perceived validity.

I'm just trying to understand your logic. I'm basing this comment off of: "That's fine. You guys saw what you saw, you reached your own conclusions. I may disagree, but I see no issue with disagreeing." Which reads to most people as even though we say what we saw, you disagree with what we saw.

Not at all. I'm just leaving my options open. It is possible that you misinterpreted the situation.

Much like how AllAroundTheWorld put it: "But...this isn't like some "UFO" footage where it's some smudge and people can interpret how they like. This was a rocket launch all in full HD and reported by basically every major news agency and witnessed by hundreds of people and there was then a live stream from it. I don't think we are leaping to conclusions here.".

That's okay. You are welcome to believe in whatever you wish. If your incomplete account is all you need, I choose to disagree with your methodology. But that's neither here nor there in the context of my appeal.

Also I didn't know x-ray gave a telescopic property but... Did you know, that there are these really awesome focal devices called telescopes, binoculars, telescopic camera lenses? They allow you to see very far away, much further than the human eye, are easy to obtain, and let you see things after they are too far away for you to see with your naked eyes.

Yes, I happen to own one of those mythical devices. As a friendly tip to a newcomer, you're not going to engage many people by asking questions like this. Instead, you're likely to confine yourself to the "uninteresting debaters" list.

[Pete Svarrior]

So from your perspective, all of the videos that you've seen of the rocket launching could have been faked, since you were not there?

No, my presence at the launch site would have had no impact on the video's perceived validity.

I'm just trying to understand your logic. I'm basing this comment off of: "That's fine. You guys saw what you saw, you reached your own conclusions. I may disagree, but I see no issue with disagreeing." Which reads to most people as even though we say what we saw, you disagree with what we saw.

Not at all. I'm just leaving my options open. It is possible that you misinterpreted the situation.

Much like how AllAroundTheWorld put it: "But...this isn't like some "UFO" footage where it's some smudge and people can interpret how they like. This was a rocket launch all in full HD and reported by basically every major news agency and witnessed by hundreds of people and there was then a live stream from it. I don't think we are leaping to conclusions here.".

That's okay. You are welcome to believe in whatever you wish. If your incomplete account is all you need, I choose to disagree with your methodology. But that's neither here nor there in the context of my appeal.

Also I didn't know x-ray gave a telescopic property but... Did you know, that there are these really awesome focal devices called telescopes, binoculars, telescopic camera lenses? They allow you to see very far away, much further than the human eye, are easy to obtain, and let you see things after they are too far away for you to see with your naked eyes.

Yes, I happen to own one of those mythical devices. As a friendly tip to a newcomer, you're not going to engage many people by asking questions like this. Instead, you're likely to confine yourself to the "uninteresting debaters" list.

[AATW]

That's only natural. Your side is losing ground at a rapid pace. I would expect you to be nothing but disappointed about it.

I don't have a "side". I don't have a stake in this. The earth's shape is what it is. I think truth is important, if I have a side then that's the side I'm on. So what I'm disappointed about is the way people increasingly don't seem to be able to think rationally about things or care what is true. The election of Trump is an indicator. Most of what Trump says is not true. Just demonstrably not true. But no-one seems to care. Or not enough people. (Not that I think that Clinton was a brilliant candidate either by the way). It was the same with the Brexit vote here.
Hence the TIME cover "IS TRUTH DEAD?"

It's a depressing indication of the state of our society and education system which doesn't seem to teach people how to think logically or analyse things critically. The Globe Earth "side" isn't losing much ground in terms of the argument. The Flat Earth Movement has gained publicity at a rapid pace but a lot of that is people shaking their heads in disbelief that anyone would still believe this. If the Flat Earth Movement is gaining any traction in terms of people's beliefs then it is a depressing indictment of the post-truth world we live in, not an indication of the strength of your argument. Just like things like homeopathy which are surprisingly popular despite demonstrably not working (placebo effect aside).

You are not winning the argument with many people, mostly because you don't have an argument.
You have decided the earth is flat. I can't begin to imagine why as it flies in the face of all the evidence and many gaping holes have been pointed out which render a flat earth impossible.
But you refuse to consider any evidence which shows your belief to be incorrect. In the Q&A thread there was a survey and one of the questions was what would you do if the earth was conclusively proven to be spherical. You said:

I'd move on pretty quickly. It's impossible to follow the path of inquiry without making some mistakes.

But the earth has just been proven to be spherical with this launch. Well, not just, it's been known for millennia. But the launch and footage from it reinforces what we've known all that time. Instead of your response being "Fair enough, sorry chaps but we've been wasting our time", your reaction is, predictably, "Fake! Laa laa laa, can't hear you."
You have precisely zero evidence that this was faked. If the best you've got is one quote from Wozniak where he says he doesn't trust Musk - which was in the context of Tesla deadlines about self-driving cars - then you are struggling.
But you declare it fake anyway. Why? Because to admit it real is to admit that the earth is a sphere. And the cognitive dissonance is too strong. So you do the only thing you can do in order to maintain your mistaken belief, dismiss it.

You can prove yourself correct about anything if you ignore or dismiss all the evidence which shows you to be mistaken.

[Pete Svarrior]

Our opinions clearly differ. I see no benefit to continuously exchanging "nuh uhs" and "yuh uhs"

[ShowmetheProof]

That strikes me as funny, since you seem to be unaware that your side is the main side that does that.  Maybe instead of saying that they can't debate, you could review the "nuh-uh" and "yuh-uh" conversations and think about who starts those.  But I think you believe so much in TFE that when you look at the conversations, you can't see your side starting them.

[AATW]

Our opinions clearly differ. I see no benefit to continuously exchanging "nuh uhs" and "yuh uhs"

But you have provided no evidence for your opinion because you have none.
My opinion is based on a load of photos, videos and witness testimony.
Yours is based on "the earth is flat so this must be fake". That really isn't evidence, it's just denial.

Addendum:

You may have heard of the "Black Swan" idea which represents an unexpected event.
So the idea goes that if you've only ever seen white swans then your reasonable conclusion would be that all swans are white.
But there are black swans in Australia and New Zealand.
So when you hear about this you have to change your thinking. Not all swans are white after all.
That is the rational thing to do. Modify one's opinions in the light of new evidence.

The denialist thing to do is say "I don't believe you, all swans are white".
Then when someone shows you a photo you say "Fake! That image has been Photoshopped. All swans are white.".
Then when someone tells you they've seen one you call them a liar.
And so on.

That is the Flat Earth mentality.

[Pete Svarrior]

But you have provided no evidence for your opinion because you have none.

Actually, I haven't provided an opinion.

[AATW]

But you have provided no evidence for your opinion because you have none.

Actually, I haven't provided an opinion.

Neither have you renounced the folly of your Flat Earth ways.
I have inferred your opinion from that 
EDIT: And you said our opinions differ. I have made mine clear so I can infer yours from that too.

[ryjay707]

So from your perspective, all of the videos that you've seen of the rocket launching could have been faked, since you were not there?

No, my presence at the launch site would have had no impact on the video's perceived validity.

How would it have no impact on the validity, if you have a telescope, had it with you, and were following the rocket as it went out into space, while also having the live stream playing? I'd figure that would make quite the impact.

I'm just trying to understand your logic. I'm basing this comment off of: "That's fine. You guys saw what you saw, you reached your own conclusions. I may disagree, but I see no issue with disagreeing." Which reads to most people as even though we say what we saw, you disagree with what we saw.

Not at all. I'm just leaving my options open. It is possible that you misinterpreted the situation.

I'm not the only one, could it possibly be you worded it in a way that could be taken more than one way purposely to make argument?

Much like how AllAroundTheWorld put it: "But...this isn't like some "UFO" footage where it's some smudge and people can interpret how they like. This was a rocket launch all in full HD and reported by basically every major news agency and witnessed by hundreds of people and there was then a live stream from it. I don't think we are leaping to conclusions here.".

That's okay. You are welcome to believe in whatever you wish. If your incomplete account is all you need, I choose to disagree with your methodology. But that's neither here nor there in the context of my appeal.

How is my account incomplete? I watched it until it got too far for my eyes to see, I watched it from a telescope after that, meanwhile taking turns with a pal who had a stream of it from it's view. I'd say that's a pretty complete account, the rocket didn't just vanish into nothing, it kept going until the telescope couldn't see it, it didn't come back to Earth, it kept going. So, what about that account makes it incomplete? Why do you disagree with methodology of seeing something with your own eyes and believing it instead of thinking it was somehow magically faked when it happened right in front of you? Is it simply because you yourself were not there to experience it so therefor anyone's account other than yours is incorrect? What you're spouting makes no sense to me, and it makes you sound like possibly you're just a troll trying to get a ruse out of the society.

Also I didn't know x-ray gave a telescopic property but... Did you know, that there are these really awesome focal devices called telescopes, binoculars, telescopic camera lenses? They allow you to see very far away, much further than the human eye, are easy to obtain, and let you see things after they are too far away for you to see with your naked eyes.

Yes, I happen to own one of those mythical devices. As a friendly tip to a newcomer, you're not going to engage many people by asking questions like this. Instead, you're likely to confine yourself to the "uninteresting debaters" list.

"you're not going to engage many people by asking questions like this. Instead" Says the guy who gave the silly response of accusing me of having X-ray vision to see far distances without using your brain to think "Maybe this guy had a telescope."  By your recent responses I'm shocked to see that people take you seriously in this website. As so far, honestly, you're far over the border of "This guy is a troll".

But you have provided no evidence for your opinion because you have none.

Actually, I haven't provided an opinion.

You've provided your opinion quite clearly to us who say we were there and witnessed it, your opinion is "You are welcome to believe in whatever you wish. If your incomplete account is all you need, I choose to disagree with your methodology." showing that you actually do have an opinion on this matter, only you aren't giving your side of it, how you think it was faked, what you think wasn't real about it, where you think the rocket mysteriously vanished to. I'm all ears... or eyes in this case to what your opinion on this is. However, instead of trying to debate about it, or showing us what your full thought on it is you say:

Our opinions clearly differ. I see no benefit to continuously exchanging "nuh uhs" and "yuh uhs"

So how is this going to get anywhere with moot responses such as that? The same thing AllAroundTheWorld is doing --- we're inferring your opinion based on your lackluster "nuh uh" comments that seem to be nothing more than "nuh uhs" without giving the other side (whom give more insight to their "yuh uhs") insight into why you say "nuh uh".

That's only natural. Your side is losing ground at a rapid pace. I would expect you to be nothing but disappointed about it.

The IQ rate of the world is also going down at a rapid pace, so I'd say the disappointment is pointed at people believing in this nonsense. It's exactly like those people who say recent mass shootings were all staged by the government.