Offline mtnman

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Gravimeter
« on: November 24, 2017, 05:20:20 AM »
If the FE belief in UA (Universal Acceleration) is accurate, why would anyone have invented this device?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravimeter

Seems like a rather obscure device to have created just to maintain a round Earth conspiracy.

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Offline junker

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Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2017, 04:56:57 PM »
Seems like a rather obscure device to have created just to maintain a round Earth conspiracy.

Nice non-sequitur.

Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2017, 09:44:15 PM »
How is that a non-sequitur?

It turns out that any field where delicate measurements of weight are required must correct for differences in gravity:

https://www.pharmamanufacturing.com/articles/2016/mass-measurement-precision-small-objects-pharmaceutical-production/

These people aren't trying to prove a round or flat earth, they just want to make drugs to spray in chemtrails make our lives better. But they have to correct for round-earth gravity differences because those differences actually exist and can be measured with a gravimeter.

So maybe I can rephrase the question:

Why are gravimeters necessary and what are they measuring? Why is there a known corrective curve for gravitational force based on latitude?

Offline mtnman

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Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2017, 10:23:26 PM »
How is that a non-sequitur?

It turns out that any field where delicate measurements of weight are required must correct for differences in gravity:

Interesting comment, wouldn't have thought about that drug manufacturing using something like that. I had never heard of the device, but saw in mentioned in an article about the search for the missing Argentine navy sub. Hope it will help them find it.

I had read many years ago about the US Navy searching for subs with a device called a Magnetic Anomaly Detector (MAD), but had no idea the gravitation field could be measured that precisely.

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Offline junker

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Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2017, 12:31:52 AM »
How is that a non-sequitur?

Because the conclusion doesn't follow from the premise.

Offline mtnman

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Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2017, 01:34:23 AM »
How is that a non-sequitur?

Because the conclusion doesn't follow from the premise.
FE holds that gravity doesn't exist, right? (UA). If this was true, why would such a device exist? Call it a question, not a conclusion.

Do you have an answer, or just grammar criticism?

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Offline junker

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Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2017, 05:18:53 AM »
FE holds that gravity doesn't exist, right? (UA). If this was true, why would such a device exist? Call it a question, not a conclusion.

Do you have an answer, or just grammar criticism?

FE also holds that there is still gravitational influence by heavenly bodies. Having a device would be helpful in measuring that. Of course, I am sure you have done some research, so you already knew that.

So yes, there is your answer. And it was more a criticism of your logic, not your grammar. Take care!

Offline mtnman

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Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2017, 06:45:05 AM »

FE also holds that there is still gravitational influence by heavenly bodies. Having a device would be helpful in measuring that. Of course, I am sure you have done some research, so you already knew that.

So yes, there is your answer. And it was more a criticism of your logic, not your grammar. Take care!
If ones of the uses for this device is finding submarines, then every place they use it would be, by definition, at sea level. Which would be a consistent distance from "heavenly bodies". So their influence would not be a factor.
 
Further more, if the variance of gravity were actually explained by influence from "heavenly bodies", then it would be a function of altitude from the Earth's surface. (100 feet above ground, 100 feet closer to the stars). This device would still serve no purpose.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 06:47:45 AM by mtnman »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2017, 05:17:31 PM »
If ones of the uses for this device is finding submarines

Who actually found a submarine with one?
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Offline mtnman

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Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2017, 05:43:25 PM »
If ones of the uses for this device is finding submarines

Who actually found a submarine with one?
I couldn't say, I only claimed that the article I read mentioned they were using the device in this case. I guess it's possible that it has never been used for this purpose and someone thought that with a missing sub this would be a great time to try it for the first time ever. Doesn't seem very likely to me.

But let's not change the subject. Why would this device exist in a world with UA and no gravity?

Here are some uses of the devices now that they are becoming smaller and more portable.

Quote
Researchers could deploy networks of the tiny gravimeters to monitor the movements of magma within and underneath volcanoes, possibly discerning the magnitudes and patterns of flows in advance of an eruption, for example. Or they could mount them on drones and use them to search for underground voids that could eventually evolve into sinkholes, or for humanmade structures such as tunnels used to smuggle drugs.
(from http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/tiny-gravity-sensor-could-detect-drug-tunnels-mineral-deposits)

Why would this device exist in a world with UA and no gravity?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2017, 02:38:50 AM »
If ones of the uses for this device is finding submarines

Who actually found a submarine with one?
I couldn't say, I only claimed that the article I read mentioned they were using the device in this case. I guess it's possible that it has never been used for this purpose and someone thought that with a missing sub this would be a great time to try it for the first time ever. Doesn't seem very likely to me.

But let's not change the subject. Why would this device exist in a world with UA and no gravity?

Here are some uses of the devices now that they are becoming smaller and more portable.

Quote
Researchers could deploy networks of the tiny gravimeters to monitor the movements of magma within and underneath volcanoes, possibly discerning the magnitudes and patterns of flows in advance of an eruption, for example. Or they could mount them on drones and use them to search for underground voids that could eventually evolve into sinkholes, or for humanmade structures such as tunnels used to smuggle drugs.
(from http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/tiny-gravity-sensor-could-detect-drug-tunnels-mineral-deposits)

Why would this device exist in a world with UA and no gravity?

There is a difference between the meanings of "could" and "did".
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2017, 09:11:57 AM »
If ones of the uses for this device is finding submarines

Who actually found a submarine with one?
I couldn't say, I only claimed that the article I read mentioned they were using the device in this case. I guess it's possible that it has never been used for this purpose and someone thought that with a missing sub this would be a great time to try it for the first time ever. Doesn't seem very likely to me.

But let's not change the subject. Why would this device exist in a world with UA and no gravity?

Here are some uses of the devices now that they are becoming smaller and more portable.

Quote
Researchers could deploy networks of the tiny gravimeters to monitor the movements of magma within and underneath volcanoes, possibly discerning the magnitudes and patterns of flows in advance of an eruption, for example. Or they could mount them on drones and use them to search for underground voids that could eventually evolve into sinkholes, or for humanmade structures such as tunnels used to smuggle drugs.
(from http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/tiny-gravity-sensor-could-detect-drug-tunnels-mineral-deposits)

Why would this device exist in a world with UA and no gravity?

There is a difference between the meanings of "could" and "did".
Quite, but they *did* and *have* shown gravimetric differences across the globe. So once again, on a FE that doesn't have gravity, why/how do these devices exist?

Offline mtnman

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Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2017, 11:37:19 PM »

There is a difference between the meanings of "could" and "did".
The context of what I quoted was about the expanded uses now that these devices are becoming smaller. They are not a recent invention.

But let's not try to change the subject. If what keeps us on Earth is UA and gravity doesn't exist, why would these devices exist? In UA, they simply could not work.

Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2017, 03:48:21 PM »
A gravimeter is an accelerometer. It measures acceleration. The average acceleration of earth is 1 Gal (by definition) or 30.48 ft/s^2. However this acceleration is not constant over the plane(t). Some areas exhibit slightly higher acceleration, e.g. the acceleration at the bottom of the Mariana trench is approximately 100 mGal lower than the average. This effect is called "Gravity Anomaly" (it should be "Acceleration Anomaly") and maps of it exist:



Acceleration Anomaly leads to certain areas of the earth moving at different speeds, e.g. Mount Everest lies in an area with a positive anomaly. This leads to Mount Everest getting taller over time (approx. 4mm/year).

Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2017, 04:44:37 PM »
And still nobody answers, why would these devices exist? In UA, they simply could not work.
I *believe* hellbanan is claiming they work just fine because different parts of the Earth are accelerating at different rates. It's sort of a shame that means the explanation for us not being able to notice it via Relativity doesn't work without uniform acceleration. Not to mention in just a year of time Everest would be moving at a speed of over 28,00 meters/second faster than anything at 'normal' gravity according to his statement. The Earth would literally tear itself apart in days or weeks with those kind of differences.

Offline mtnman

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Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2017, 06:42:51 PM »
At risk of being banned, again, I must restate the original question, which no FE believer has answered.

Why would these devices exist if there was no gravity? In UA, they simply could not work.


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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2017, 06:49:50 PM »
You have not completely researched our position about the Universal Accelerator. The slight differences are caused by celestial gravitation affecting the device at different altitudes.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Offline mtnman

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Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2017, 07:03:34 PM »
You have not completely researched our position about the Universal Accelerator. The slight differences are caused by celestial gravitation affecting the device at different altitudes.
These things are used in geology, mining and oil exploration. From ground level. You can't explain them away with altitude differences.

I will restate what I said in an earlier post.
Quote
If the variance of gravity was actually explained by influence from "heavenly bodies", then it would be a function of altitude from the Earth's surface. (100 feet above ground, 100 feet closer to the stars). This device would still serve no purpose.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2017, 07:37:19 PM »
You have not completely researched our position about the Universal Accelerator. The slight differences are caused by celestial gravitation affecting the device at different altitudes.
These things are used in geology, mining and oil exploration. From ground level. You can't explain them away with altitude differences.

I will restate what I said in an earlier post.
Quote
If the variance of gravity was actually explained by influence from "heavenly bodies", then it would be a function of altitude from the Earth's surface. (100 feet above ground, 100 feet closer to the stars). This device would still serve no purpose.

You have not shown any examples to support that positon. Who discovered a precious metal or oil deposit with a gravimeter?

Oil hunters also reportedly use dousing rods in an effort to find oil. The fact that oil hunting hucksters might advertise that they use such equipment on their craft to the oil companies is not evidence that it actually works.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 08:20:49 PM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Gravimeter
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2017, 08:05:50 PM »
You have not completely researched our position about the Universal Accelerator. The slight differences are caused by celestial gravitation affecting the device at different altitudes.
These things are used in geology, mining and oil exploration. From ground level. You can't explain them away with altitude differences.

I will restate what I said in an earlier post.
Quote
If the variance of gravity was actually explained by influence from "heavenly bodies", then it would be a function of altitude from the Earth's surface. (100 feet above ground, 100 feet closer to the stars). This device would still serve no purpose.

You have not shown any examples to support that positon. Who discovered a precious metal or oil deposit with a gravimeter?

Oil hunters also reportedly use dousing rods in an effort to find oil. The fact that thry might carry such equipment is not evidence that it actually works.
The image above shows quite well there are gravity differences that aren't dependent upon height. Look at the gravity increase in the ocean to the south of Africa. Or the variation on Antarctica from the spot south of Africa compare to the spot south of Australia. Or the very large decrease that covers India/Sri Lanka. It clearly isn't a simple function of height.