[Rama Set]

Just assume that "dark energy" is what propels the flat disc, and space-time warping (and whatnot) causes gravity.

Why should we assume that?

Assumptions remain until proven false.

So then you are an AI until you proven otherwise?

[gizmo910]

Just assume that "dark energy" is what propels the flat disc, and space-time warping (and whatnot) causes gravity.

Why should we assume that?

Assumptions remain until proven false.

So then you are an AI until you proven otherwise?

As the great Descartes said,  je pense, donc je suis

[RoundEarthedFellow]

Assumptions are not true until proven false.
"Unicorns exist."
"Batman is real."
"I am secretly a turtle in disguise, learning about your species to better the regime."
"Every time you drop an apple, there is a 0.000000000000000000000000001% chance that it won't fall."
You can't just make a claim and say, prove me wrong. Without evidence, it doesn't mean anything.

[3DGeek]

You can't just make a claim and say, prove me wrong. Without evidence, it doesn't mean anything.

Well, you can...but then everyone will assume that you're a complete idiot...AND have the evidence to prove it!

[RoundEarthedFellow]

Very true... congrats on 1000th post!

[3DGeek]

Very true... congrats on 1000th post!

Woah - that's a horrifyingly large number!  Thanks for pointing it out!

[planetstupid]

Naw, because the speed of light is unattainable by anything that has mass. The Earth is wayyyy too big to accelarate that much

also earth is round

[Looted]

I can't pretend to be well-read on Special relativity so I'll take your word for it. I'd still appreciate some explanation for the endless, mysterious force causing this constant acceleration of the entire universe before I'm fully convinced though!

Special relativity? Isn't this spatial relativity.

[3DGeek]

Naw, because the speed of light is unattainable by anything that has mass. The Earth is wayyyy too big to accelarate that much

also earth is round

Please go and learn about relativity before you say things like that.

ONE...MORE...TIME...

SPECIAL RELATIVITY SAYS:

* Relativity is called that because "everything is relative".  Technically, you have to examine things consistently from a specific frame of reference.

* So from the "frame of reference" of someone standing on the Flat Earth, the speed of the Earth relative to us is...ZERO!   So from OUR perspective, we never reach light speed...we never even reach 10 mph.

* From the perspective of some hypothetical "outsider" who is not being accelerated by this weird FET "Universal Acceleration" - they would see the Earth going faster and faster - BUT as it goes faster, special relativity says that the rate at which clocks tick on Earth would go slower and slower (from the perspective of the outsider).   This means that from the outsider's perspective, the Earth gets closer and closer to light speed - but never *QUITE* reaches it.   From their point of view, it the Earth has been accelerating like this for a billion years (say) then time is passing insanely slowly on Earth...but the Earthlings don't notice that because for them, EVERYTHING is going equally slowly.

GENERAL RELATIVITY:


* GR says that there is no possible experiment within a closed system that can distinguish a uniform gravitational field from a uniform acceleration.  LITERALLY no experiment.
* Since UA is a uniform acceleration, it's indistinguishable from a uniform gravitational field...in every possible way.
* HOWEVER: When we measure the gravitational field of the the Earth - it isn't *quite* uniform.  There are differences of less than 1% due to three things:
   a) Being at the pole versus the equator.
   b) Being on top of a tall mountain versus a deep valley.
   c) Being above a denser rock formation (like granite) versus a lighter one (like pumice).

So - PLEASE stop this stupid argument.

The reason that Universal Acceleration is complete and utter bullshit is because EVERYTHING to do with the Flat Earth hypothesis is complete and utter bullshit.   In this case, you know it's bullshit because gravity isn't the same everywhere on Earth and UA would be the same everywhere.

You CANNOT, however, use relativity (either Special or General) to disprove UA...you just can't, OK?

If you still think you can - then you don't know enough about Einstein's theories to comment intelligently on the subject - so you should probably shut the hell up and stop embarrassing yourself.

[Looted]

'Spatial Relativity is an interactive installation exploring how our bodies and minds can develop a dialogue with the surrounding environment. '

As individuals, 'we' singular - not as a group, attempt to convey an understanding of our understanding of what we percieve around us.  When I used 'spatial' in lou of special, I was not intoning special relativity was not a correct account. I meant that the discussion was about exploring our reality as we exist in it.

As for gravity, when something goes up it must come down. Every day the sun goes up and then it comes down. Simple gravity. (From a simple observational point not a literal point)

As for disproving 'UA' spatial relativity can do that.

Cheers.

[3DGeek]

'Spatial Relativity is an interactive installation exploring how our bodies and minds can develop a dialogue with the surrounding environment. '

As individuals, 'we' singular - not as a group, attempt to convey an understanding of our understanding of what we percieve around us.  When I used 'spatial' in lou of special, I was not intoning special relativity was not a correct account. I meant that the discussion was about exploring our reality as we exist in it.

As for gravity, when something goes up it must come down. Every day the sun goes up and then it comes down. Simple gravity. (From a simple observational point not a literal point)

As for disproving 'UA' spatial relativity can do that.

Cheers.

Nonsense.  Voyager 1 (for example) "went up" - and for 100% sure it's ain't ever coming down again.

[Looted]

'Spatial Relativity is an interactive installation exploring how our bodies and minds can develop a dialogue with the surrounding environment. '

As individuals, 'we' singular - not as a group, attempt to convey an understanding of our understanding of what we percieve around us.  When I used 'spatial' in lou of special, I was not intoning special relativity was not a correct account. I meant that the discussion was about exploring our reality as we exist in it.

As for gravity, when something goes up it must come down. Every day the sun goes up and then it comes down. Simple gravity. (From a simple observational point not a literal point)

As for disproving 'UA' spatial relativity can do that.

Cheers.

Nonsense.  Voyager 1 (for example) "went up" - and for 100% sure it's ain't ever coming down again.

Did it really go up? Relative to my location it kinda went to the left. I'm sure by now its all down.

A man made contraption, can use things like fuel - to allow it to defy things like gravity.

There are a set of rules... physics that determine what you would need to be ably to not fall back to the ground, like for example helicopters.

I hope this is simple enough for you, and that you wont mistake a 'general' comment for some kind of sorcery again.

[Mora]

If the Earth is constantly accelerating at 9.2 m/s, wouldn't we eventually reach the speed of light, and then beyond?
I'd like to know some thought about why the Earth is constantly accelerating, instead of going at a constant pace.

1. The Earth is accelerating only because it is constantly changing direction due to its orbit. That is it's velocity's magnitude stays (mostly) constant while it's direction changes.

2. I believe you are confusing the Earth's acceleration around the sun and the acceleration of objects close to the surface of Earth as they fall to the Earth.

The first few posts I read brought up relativity, and I really don't think relativity plays a huge role in what's going on. But since we did bring relativity up, as a fun fact even if you were to accelerate linearly forever, you would never reach the speed of light, but instead approach it asymptotically. This is because the energy required to increase velocity as you approach the speed of light increases without bounds.

[Sushi]

Nonsense.  Voyager 1 (for example) "went up" - and for 100% sure it's ain't ever coming down again.
[/quote]

Disagree.
Voyager will come down, but not back on the earth.
I don't know Voyager exact path but it will be pulled by some star or planet in some thousands or milion years.

[TomInAustin]

Nonsense.  Voyager 1 (for example) "went up" - and for 100% sure it's ain't ever coming down again.

Disagree.
Voyager will come down, but not back on the earth.
I don't know Voyager exact path but it will be pulled by some star or planet in some thousands or milion years.
[/quote]


The odds are not good for Voyager to ever encounter a star.   If I recall correctly the star density of the Milky Way is less that one star per cubic light year.

Edit:

Voyager is not making a wild random trip across the galaxy.  It achieved escape velocity from the sun that puts it on a similar orbit around the galactic center.  Based on the following the odds are off the charts against ever encountering a star.

In the solar neighborhood, the stellar density is about one star per cubic parsec (one parsec is 3.26 light-years). At the Galactic core, around 100 parsecs from the Galactic center, the stellar density has risen to 100 per cubic parsec, crowded together because of gravity.

[3DGeek]

As for gravity, when something goes up it must come down. Every day the sun goes up and then it comes down. Simple gravity. (From a simple observational point not a literal point)

Nonsense.  Voyager 1 (for example) "went up" - and for 100% sure it's ain't ever coming down again.

Did it really go up? Relative to my location it kinda went to the left. I'm sure by now its all down.

Yes - it receded from the center of the Earth, that's "UP".  The direction it travels relative to you varies as the earth rotates and orbits.

A man made contraption, can use things like fuel - to allow it to defy things like gravity.

It used fuel initially - just as when you toss a ball, the initial speed is initially produced by muscle power.   But just like the ball, it's in free fall one the energy source goes away.

There are a set of rules... physics that determine what you would need to be ably to not fall back to the ground, like for example helicopters.

I hope this is simple enough for you, and that you wont mistake a 'general' comment for some kind of sorcery again.

It's not a matter of "simplicity" - these are facts.    Voyager 1 exceeded the escape velocity of Earth, Earth/Moon and Sun.  It is most certainly NOT going to fall back EVER.  If you doubt this - Google "Escape Velocity".   It is the velocity at which one object can completely escape the other.