[Ga_x2]

Explain to us why you think God is the creator, for once and all

sure, in another thread. So that maybe there's space left in this one, just in case someone wants to answer the frigging OP instead of constantly derailing. Thanks.

[douglips]

I'd love to see someone predict the tide timing accurately from the "God is breathing" theory.

[3DGeek]

i genuinely think i have an explanation for the two high tides and its simply that the GIF on the FAQs is slightly wrong. Okay so the moon pulls the tides out with its mass and there is two high tides a day but in the GIF it only shows the moon being in one place daily but the moon is moving faster than the sun and it show up twice in a day this can also explain why the moon is visible in daylight sometimes and also why it rises in different places it inst moving in a circular motion it is moving in a more crazy motion and a lot faster. this theory also explains eclipses and why the don't last for a day and are only view able in some countries  correct me if u think i'm wrong, have another theory or dont understand,

you know, that would actually be a neat explanation (better than j-man's at any rate) but I don't think is confirmed by observations by either "camp"... fact is, we don't see the moon zip by at that speed. It would have to cross the sky in under 6 hours! 

More to the point, you'd have to see the moon cross the sky twice in 24 hours - once for each of the two tides.   That doesn't happen...so this explanation is busted.

The tides happen (roughly) twice per day - one high tide when the moon is overhead and another when it's overhead on the opposite side of the world.

Because the moon's motion around the Earth is combined with the Earth's rotation, the tides are actually about 12.5 hours apart, not exactly 12.   This fact of tide times really brings home the fact that tides are definitely related most strongly to the cycles of the moon.   However, the sun actually adds (or subtracts) it's own tides on a precise 12 hour cycle.   But because the sun is SO far away (at least in RET) it's tidal effects are rather small.

So if you look at water level charts, you see two sine-waves added together - one with that 12 hour cycle and another with a roughly 12.5 hour cycle

Explaining all of this subtlety is FAR beyond what FET can manage.

In RET, the explanation is really very simple.

[Ga_x2]

One week later, and this is the situation:
- 3dgeek couldn't resist explaining how tides work in a RE  (I knew you couldn't! );
- Sammy proposed a supersonic moon passing by twice a day, which not even the FE crowd would accept;
- j-man makes shit up as he goes along, and that's kind of his modus operandi... (even FErs don't seem to be willing to touch him with a 10' pole) so no hope there either.
- I'm a bit miffed by the absence of hmmm with a fake moon holografic projection multiple moons "theory" but I suppose he wouldn't comment an OP clearly coming from a reptilian;

Anyone else willing to chime in? Should I put "tides" in the bin of topics for which the FES doesn't have a discernible answer, along with the Cavendish experiment?
(And tbh with the layout of the continents, the path of the objects in the sky and a few other topics which I didn't personally ask, but I've seen butcher in various threads so far)

[J-Man]

Understanding High and Low tides doesn't have to be a difficult task. One needs to keep track and they will continue with regularity till the end of time. Tides are the movement of water and water is very important to God. In his creation of the universe, water was made on the 2nd day.
Genesis1-6 And God said, Let there be a firmament (dome) in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Now some scoffed at the notion that the tides could be tied to Gods breathing. So, I asked him. You see God wants men to be humble and "Men do therefore fear him: he respects not any that are wise of heart".

In John 7:38
"To the one who believes in Me, it is just as the Scripture has said: 'Streams of living water will flow from within him.'" So rest assured I believe and the knowledge I give is from God.
Now what is water? Water is Gods knowledge. In Isaiah the water is a simile for the knowledge of God. We are baptized in it. Water symbolizes Gods Word in many places throughout the Bible. In both Psalms and Ephesians water is symbols of God's word. Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word.

Now lets dig a little deeper. Is water living? YES, Living water is a biblical term which appears in both the Old and New Testaments. In Jeremiah 2:13 and 17:13, the prophet describes God as "the spring of living water", who has been forsaken by his chosen people Israel.

Then we have Job being scolded by God in
38:8 “Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb,
9 when I made the clouds its garment and wrapped it in thick darkness,
10 when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place,
11 when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt’?

Break the word down, The SEA has doors or passage ways and a womb (womens birth canal), it wears garments signifying a living thing, placing limits on its travel destinations and having a mind/heart of it’s own that feels PRIDE. Oh yes my friends the sea is a living thing created by God.

And living things: BREATHE regularly…..

[Ga_x2]

Aaand another week gone by. Time flies when you're having fun.
Making a mental note that the A in the forum title doesn't stand for Answers. Maybe it's quirks & absurdities, or something like that.
So no one in the damn board knows how tides work? There's people expounding on relativity and celestial gears and magic perspective and tides are a friggin mystery? Seriously?

[Revel]

Either you are a valid Catholic or the greatest man I know.
In favor of the latter contradiction: a pure, poetic erudite,
Ingenuity easily unmatched by some barbaric administrators.
He flatters no one. He trumps all. A fitting depiction of your profile!
Equipped and armed with clever humor, die by his keyboard like earnest fools.
Deserving of transcendental-quality reverence of prodigious strength; I applaud you, J-man.

A Sestet.

[AstralSentient]

Tides are due to the Geodesic deviation by the moon and sun. Think of it this way, you got aether (a fabric of space-time), the moon (and sun) warps it (because of its energy content), any object or fluid it moves by will be affected, it will follow that warp. The water will remain at it's level but when the aether it is in becomes more non-homogeneous (distorted, not equal across like flat undistorted aether), it's going to follow that aether warp as straight.

'Celestial Gravitation" is not the correct term for it since it's not forcing water away from its level, but rather, the aether it is in is non-homogeneous, so therefore the straightest path of water is non-homogeneous (equating to what we perceive as a rise or a bulge in water).

Two tides a day are because the water is warped away from a particular part of Earth and other water is left behind, having two high tides.

I've heard of other explanations for tides in the context of Flat Earth models that may not include the moon and sun, but I feel there is good evidence that the moon contributes greatly to tides.

[douglips]

Tides are due to the Geodesic deviation by the moon and sun. Think of it this way, you got aether (a fabric of space-time), the moon (and sun) warps it (because of its energy content), any object or fluid it moves by will be affected, it will follow that warp. The water will remain at it's level but when the aether it is in becomes more non-homogeneous (distorted, not equal across like flat undistorted aether), it's going to follow that aether warp as straight.

'Celestial Gravitation" is not the correct term for it since it's not forcing water away from its level, but rather, the aether it is in is non-homogeneous, so therefore the straightest path of water is non-homogeneous (equating to what we perceive as a rise or a bulge in water).

Two tides a day are because the water is warped away from a particular part of Earth and other water is left behind, having two high tides.

I've heard of other explanations for tides in the context of Flat Earth models that may not include the moon and sun, but I feel there is good evidence that the moon contributes greatly to tides.

It sounds to me like you are just using different terminology for the newtonian model of tides. I'm not sure what I could disagree with here, except, is there a way to quantify the tides using your aether idea? Newton's laws give you tidal forces quite accurately - as in, Newton calculated these exact numbers in his Principia.

[Ga_x2]

Two tides a day are because the water is warped away from a particular part of Earth and other water is left behind, having two high tides.

ok, this part has to be explained, as for the rest, you seem to use aether as a substitute for gravity, so no problem there. (Well there are some, I guess, but they can wait)
Is the rest of the Flat Earth Society ok with this explanation? I understand that aether isn't part of the "standard model" (lol)

[AstralSentient]

It sounds to me like you are just using different terminology for the newtonian model of tides. I'm not sure what I could disagree with here, except, is there a way to quantify the tides using your aether idea? Newton's laws give you tidal forces quite accurately - as in, Newton calculated these exact numbers in his Principia.

It is quite similar to gravitation in that if you assume euclidean space-time ('aether'), this geodesic deviation could be described as gravitation (boil down to equivalent effects on the water), these geodesic deviations would give a relative acceleration between the moon and the Earth. So, it equates to a celestial gravitation in terms of effect but differs in that it has water find its straightest path through the warped aether.
The geodesics calculations would get quite complicated, but I'll put up a couple links to descriptions that may clarify it for you.

http://www.aei.mpg.de/~rezzolla/lnotes/virgo/geodev.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geodesic_deviation
https://books.google.com/books?id=5DtkqcET4b0C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false (pg. 275)
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/gr/geodesic.deviation.html

[AstralSentient]

Two tides a day are because the water is warped away from a particular part of Earth and other water is left behind, having two high tides.

ok, this part has to be explained, as for the rest, you seem to use aether as a substitute for gravity, so no problem there. (Well there are some, I guess, but they can wait)

The water is warped away from a particular area (the moons geodesic deviation is at the highest magnitude in the area it is most directly facing), and other water farthest away lags behind, leaving a tidal bulge opposite of the moon. This leaves one tide facing the moon and the other opposite of the moon (two tides, separated almost 12 hours apart).

Is the rest of the Flat Earth Society ok with this explanation? I understand that aether isn't part of the "standard model" (lol)

What "standard model"? I thought the celestial gravitation wiki page made it clear that multiple with differing explanations may exist.
Aether is just a term for the space-time fabric of the universe (there may be disagreements on how to describe it and it's effects).

[J-Man]

You'll never believe it but as the moon rotates around me last night, like the oceans my wood chips in my planter began to levitate toward the moon. Of course a few hours later they were back in place although somewhat in different locations. That celestial pull is awesome to watch.

[douglips]

You can actually measure it if you have a sensitive enough scale (gravimeter). Currently they are tens of thousands of dollars, but there are some solid state gravimeters that may drive cost down:
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35926147
https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v531/n7596/full/nature17397.html

[Ga_x2]

Two tides a day are because the water is warped away from a particular part of Earth and other water is left behind, having two high tides.

ok, this part has to be explained, as for the rest, you seem to use aether as a substitute for gravity, so no problem there. (Well there are some, I guess, but they can wait)

The water is warped away from a particular area (the moons geodesic deviation is at the highest magnitude in the area it is most directly facing), and other water farthest away lags behind, leaving a tidal bulge opposite of the moon. This leaves one tide facing the moon and the other opposite of the moon (two tides, separated almost 12 hours apart).

can you please draw a diagram with the flat earth and the positions of this bulge and of the "lag"? Saying opposite of the moon on a flat earth makes really little sense. How come do we have a lag that's higher than the bulge? Why would you have a lag at all?

Is the rest of the Flat Earth Society ok with this explanation? I understand that aether isn't part of the "standard model" (lol)

What "standard model"? I thought the celestial gravitation wiki page made it clear that multiple with differing explanations may exist.
Aether is just a term for the space-time fabric of the universe (there may be disagreements on how to describe it and it's effects).

I used the scarequotes for a reason. There is no standard model, but afaik no one in here has ever presented anything in the neighbourhood of what you are writing. The "celestial gravitation wiki page" is the paragraph I cite in the OP. And it doesn't make anything clear. To call that a word salad is being charitable.

[J-Man]

You can actually measure it if you have a sensitive enough scale (gravimeter). Currently they are tens of thousands of dollars, but there are some solid state gravimeters that may drive cost down:
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35926147
https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v531/n7596/full/nature17397.html

You can see it in the bathroom for free. Hop on the scale and watch your weight fluctuate during the day. Totally awesome.

[3DGeek]

You can see it in the bathroom for free. Hop on the scale and watch your weight fluctuate during the day. Totally awesome.

I know you don't understand much science - but if you could just concentrate on the label on the left of the graph.  "Acceleration (uGal)" - then notice that the tide is producing a change in acceleration that's within plus or minus 80 uGal of "normal".

"Gal" is short for "galileo" and it's a unit used in the measurement of gravity.   A "galileo" is an acceleration of one centimeter per second per second.  Which is to say that normal Earth gravity is 9.8 meters/s/s - which is 980 Gals.  The 'u'  prefix means "micro".  So Earth-normal gravity is around 980,000,000 uGal.

So the tidal force of +/- 80 uGal is about one twelve MILLIONTHS of the force of gravity.

Dunno about you - but my bathroom scale is only accurate to about the nearest ounce!  So you're not going to see a darned thing.

[Revel]

One week later, and this is the situation:
- 3dgeek couldn't resist explaining how tides work in a RE  (I knew you couldn't! );

The tides happen (roughly) twice per day - one high tide when the moon is overhead and (*low tide*) when it's overhead on the opposite side of the world.

Because the moon's motion around the Earth is combined with the Earth's rotation, the tides are actually about 12.5 hours apart, not exactly 12.   This fact of tide times really brings home the fact that tides are definitely related most strongly to the cycles of the moon.   However, the sun actually adds (or subtracts) it's own tides on a precise 12 hour cycle.   But because the sun is SO far away (at least in RET) it's tidal effects are rather small.

So if you look at water level charts, you see two sine-waves added together - one with that 12 hour cycle and another with a roughly 12.5 hour cycle

Explaining all of this subtlety is FAR beyond what FET can manage.

In RET, the explanation is really very simple.

3DGeek makes a valid point, in spite of admonition from Ga_x2. The equation for gravitational force is (and has been proven to be, with or without a flat Earth) (G(m1m2))/(r^2).

But there's one thing. The proportion of gravitational force between Sun&Earth and Moon&Earth are (in SI units) ((Msun)/((distance[Earth--Sun])^2))/(Mmoon/((distance[Earth--moon])^2)), which would be ((1.989 × (10^30)[kg])/((1.496 x (10^8)[km])^2))/((7.34767309 × (10^22)[kg])/((3.844 x (10^5)[km])^2)) = 178.726326. The sun has 178 times the gravitational pull that the moon has upon the Earth. The sun has a higher pull upon the Earth than the moon does. So the tides should, according to this logic, rise and fall with the sun. But it doesn't. What do you people make of that?

[Ga_x2]

Please create a thread on round earth tides and discuss about it how much you want

[Revel]

Please create a thread on round earth tides and discuss about it how much you want

This isn't round Earth. This is the relationship between the moon's influence and the sun's influence. Nothing to do with the Earth except for distance between it and the moon and sun. What am I saying that's controversial in the slightest?