Offline 3DGeek

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Disproof using hurricanes.
« on: September 05, 2017, 03:46:24 PM »
I was inspired to post this just this morning:

So, we've recently seen the awesome power of Hurricane Harvey in Houston - and we're about to see Hurricane Irma do a number on Florida.

In RET, hurricanes start off as north/south straight line winds that are turned into spinning circular storms as a result of the Coriolis Effect.

The Coriolis effect is a direct result of the shape of the Earth (a sphere) and the fact that it rotates.  In the Northern hemisphere, hurricanes ALWAYS rotate counter-clockwise - and in the Southern hemisphere, they always rotate clockwise (for historical reasons they are often called "typhoons"...but typhoons are just clockwise/southern-hemisphere hurricanes).

Hurricanes/typhoons NEVER form at the equator and they happen to move towards it - they dissipate before they get there.  That's because there is no coriolis force at the equator to hold a hurricane together.

If you don't know what the coriolis effect is - or why it relates to rotating spheres and not planes - read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force - which offers a pretty good description.

In FET...oh...there can be no Coriolis effect.

Conservation of linear momentum would cause any circular storm of such a large size to be dissipated by centrifugal force within a short amount of time, and without a coriolis force continually nudging it back into a circle - there could be no hurricanes or typhoons whatever.

Oh...but wait!   I forgot to check the Wiki...on the page about (https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Coriolis_Effect) it says "The Wind Currents are put into gradual motion by the attraction of the Northern and Southern Celestial Systems, which are grinding against each other as gears at the equator line."...which is a total handwave.

There is no mention of these "celestial systems" anywhere else in the Wiki - no description of their motions - nothing at all - just this one sentence.  This is neither proof nor demonstration - it's offered without evidence - it's just words thrown together.

However, the description of them "grinding" like "gears" on the equator line paints a pretty mental picture that might perhaps allow us to reconstruct what the heck the author was talking about.

It would suggest that any such rotation of a storm could only happen at the equator where these two systems meet.  We imagine two counter-rotating "wheels" whipping up the wind between them.

But sadly, this has two major problems:

1) There are NEVER any hurricanes formed at the equator and they actually dissipate as they get close to it...which is because the coriolis force is at it's strongest in the tropics and vanishes entirely at the equator.
2) Those "wheels" would produce storms that ALWAYS rotate in one direction...but typhoons and hurricanes rotate in OPPOSITE directions.

So the pretty mental picture is clearly bullshit.

The Wiki makes ZERO other references to "celestial currents" - so this is an otherwise entirely undefined piece of terminology.

One could hazard a guess that they were talking about whatever it is that makes the stars swirl around the night sky - and since the FE'ers fondly believe that they can explain their motion with northern hemisphere stars rotating one way and southern hemisphere stars the other - you could see why they might imagine some "grinding" going on at the edges...but this effect stretches all the way down into the lower atmosphere, just above the oceans' surface?   Then why doesn't it affect other things like airplanes?   We know the coriolis force affects them - but this would cause them to spin around as the cross the equator...I've heard of no such effect - and as the author of flight simulators for the airlines and the military - I'm pretty sure they'd have demanded that I simulate it - as they do for the coriolis force.

In any case, the described motions of the stars in the two hemispheres would result in someone on the equator seeing half of the stars moving one way and the other half the other way...which CLEARLY doesn't happen because there are constellations that span the equatorial line of the sky that would be ripped apart by such motion...so the whole counter-rotating celestial current thing is nonsense.

So the Wiki's description is complete nonsense...so FE'ers have no coriolis force - and therefore no hurricanes.

Since there ARE hurricanes (and typhoons) - the Earth is Round.

QED.
Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Disproof using hurricanes.
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2017, 05:12:49 PM »
2) Those "wheels" would produce storms that ALWAYS rotate in one direction...but typhoons and hurricanes rotate in OPPOSITE directions.

Gears rotate in opposite directions when they move against each other. You are in error.

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Disproof using hurricanes.
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2017, 06:11:18 PM »
2) Those "wheels" would produce storms that ALWAYS rotate in one direction...but typhoons and hurricanes rotate in OPPOSITE directions.

Gears rotate in opposite directions when they move against each other. You are in error.

There are only two possibilities:

1) If the Northern hemisphere celestial current rotates (say) clockwise - then if it's TRULY like two gear wheels then the Southern hemisphere current would rotate counter-clockwise - so any air between them would be hurled violently to the WEST.   No rotation would be applied to that air - so no hurricanes.

2) If the North rotates (say) clockwise and the South ALSO rotates clockwise - then if they were indeed two "gears" then they wouldn't "mesh" at all - and anything that was trapped between them would also spin clockwise.  This could (conceivably) cause hurricanes to spin out from the equator - but it would provide no mechanism to create typhoons (which spin counter-clockwise).

But neither of these mechanisms come close to reproducing reality.

In truth, there are NO hurricanes at the equator...not a one...they form in the tropics.   AND they spin in opposite directions in the two hemispheres.

Perhaps you have a better explanation - but that single (super-vague) sentence in the Wiki doesn't explain a damned thing that we actually observe every year during hurricane season.

(And a yet bigger problem is that on a flat earth, the southern current isn't a "wheel" it's more like a spinning donut or something.  Whoever wrote what's on the Wiki was evidently thinking in round-earth terms.)
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 06:13:31 PM by 3DGeek »
Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Disproof using hurricanes.
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2017, 12:34:11 AM »
1) If the Northern hemisphere celestial current rotates (say) clockwise - then if it's TRULY like two gear wheels then the Southern hemisphere current would rotate counter-clockwise - so any air between them would be hurled violently to the WEST.   No rotation would be applied to that air - so no hurricanes.

Winds near the equator tend to move Westward. I don't see why you think it would happen "violently," however. The winds are fluids, and don't need to be violent to cause an equal and opposite reaction.

Quote
But neither of these mechanisms come close to reproducing reality.

In truth, there are NO hurricanes at the equator...not a one...they form in the tropics.   AND they spin in opposite directions in the two hemispheres.

Interlocked gears also spin in opposite directions.

Quote
Perhaps you have a better explanation - but that single (super-vague) sentence in the Wiki doesn't explain a damned thing that we actually observe every year during hurricane season.

(And a yet bigger problem is that on a flat earth, the southern current isn't a "wheel" it's more like a spinning donut or something.  Whoever wrote what's on the Wiki was evidently thinking in round-earth terms.)

Why are you assuming a monopole model?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 12:35:58 AM by Tom Bishop »

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Disproof using hurricanes.
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2017, 02:08:34 AM »
1) If the Northern hemisphere celestial current rotates (say) clockwise - then if it's TRULY like two gear wheels then the Southern hemisphere current would rotate counter-clockwise - so any air between them would be hurled violently to the WEST.   No rotation would be applied to that air - so no hurricanes.

Winds near the equator tend to move Westward. I don't see why you think it would happen "violently," however. The winds are fluids, and don't need to be violent to cause an equal and opposite reaction.

Quote
But neither of these mechanisms come close to reproducing reality.

In truth, there are NO hurricanes at the equator...not a one...they form in the tropics.   AND they spin in opposite directions in the two hemispheres.

Interlocked gears also spin in opposite directions.

Quote
Perhaps you have a better explanation - but that single (super-vague) sentence in the Wiki doesn't explain a damned thing that we actually observe every year during hurricane season.

(And a yet bigger problem is that on a flat earth, the southern current isn't a "wheel" it's more like a spinning donut or something.  Whoever wrote what's on the Wiki was evidently thinking in round-earth terms.)

Why are you assuming a monopole model?

What is suggested here is not going to work with either map.  Sketch for yourself how YOU think this "celestial current" flows - and see how YOU think it's going to produce both clockwise AND counterclockwise storms WITHOUT produce any close to the equator.

If you have such a diagram - then it would be nice to see it so it can be examined and understood or critiqued.

If you're going to go back to the "We have no idea what the flat earth map looks like" - then you should probably go through the Wiki and add

* "We have no idea how hurricanes happen in the absence of the coriolis force"
* "We have no idea how there are two tides each day"
* "We have no idea how light can travel in straight lines and yet still have photographs taken by pinhole cameras of sunsets"

...and many *MANY* more things.

So is the way that this celestial current causes both hurricanes and typhoons another of those "complete unknowns" that you're so fond of when you're backed into a corner?
Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?