Offline zp0okii

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Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« on: August 21, 2017, 06:57:26 PM »
If the earth is flat, why was the path of totality for the solar eclipse curved down through Georgia? Shouldn't the path of totality move around the "perimeter" of a flat earth? I'm pretty sure there isn't a cliff a few miles off the southeast coast of Florida... seeing as there is a continent to the south and the Atlantic Ocean with dozens of island nations to the southeast and east.

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Offline muffinskill

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Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2017, 07:24:31 PM »
For some reason they say it could be an "..object separate from the moon.."

lol.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2017, 05:09:10 PM »
You are assuming that North America on a Flat Earth would shaped as it is in Round Earth Theory.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2017, 05:18:17 PM »
You are assuming that North America on a Flat Earth would shaped as it is in Round Earth Theory.
There is only one shape of the earth, how would you propose determining it?

Offline zp0okii

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Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 06:03:27 PM »
I am assuming that North America looks the way topographers/cartographers have depicted it for centuries now. How do you believe North America is shaped? How could North America be shaped to explain the curve of the path of totality? What's more, why can NASA predict, down to the minute and mile, when and where the path of totality will be?

You are assuming that North America on a Flat Earth would shaped as it is in Round Earth Theory.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2017, 06:24:49 PM »
I am assuming that North America looks the way topographers/cartographers have depicted it for centuries now. How do you believe North America is shaped?

We presently lack the funding to look into the matter to any acceptable level. However, the point stands.

Quote
How do you believe North America is shaped?

The Round Earth coordinate system would look different on a Flat Earth, since lat/long assumes a Round Earth, and therefore the landmasses would look different. This is deserving of a research project. Unfortunately there is a lack of funding to look into this matter at present.

Quote
What's more, why can NASA predict, down to the minute and mile, when and where the path of totality will be?

The sun and moon have traveled over the surface of the earth for eons. It is possible to create a model which predict where the coordinates of the Sun's path will be tomorrow based on previous occurrences. It has traveled that path before and is therefore predicable.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2017, 06:27:38 PM »
I am assuming that North America looks the way topographers/cartographers have depicted it for centuries now. How do you believe North America is shaped?

We presently lack the funding to look into the matter to any acceptable level. However, the point stands.

Quote
How do you believe North America is shaped?

The Round Earth coordinate system would look different on a Flat Earth, since lat/long assumes a Round Earth, and therefore the landmasses would look different. This is deserving of a research project. Unfortunately there is a lack of funding to look into this matter at present.

Quote
What's more, why can NASA predict, down to the minute and mile, when and where the path of totality will be?

The sun and moon have traveled over the surface of the earth for eons. It is possible to create a model which predict where the coordinates of the Sun's path will be tomorrow based on previous occurrences. It has traveled that path before and is therefore predicable.

Tom - how do the sun and moon cross paths if they orbit one another?
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2017, 06:29:14 PM »
Tom - how do the sun and moon cross paths if they orbit one another?

Where in our materials have you seen it stated that they orbit each other?
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2017, 06:34:25 PM »
I am assuming that North America looks the way topographers/cartographers have depicted it for centuries now. How do you believe North America is shaped?

We presently lack the funding to look into the matter to any acceptable level. However, the point stands.

Quote
How do you believe North America is shaped?

The Round Earth coordinate system would look different on a Flat Earth, since lat/long assumes a Round Earth, and therefore the landmasses would look different. This is deserving of a research project. Unfortunately there is a lack of funding to look into this matter at present.

Quote
What's more, why can NASA predict, down to the minute and mile, when and where the path of totality will be?

The sun and moon have traveled over the surface of the earth for eons. It is possible to create a model which predict where the coordinates of the Sun's path will be tomorrow based on previous occurrences. It has traveled that path before and is therefore predicable.
Who, again,  is 'we'?  Please describe how you would create this model.

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2017, 06:52:07 PM »
Tom - how do the sun and moon cross paths if they orbit one another?

Where in our materials have you seen it stated that they orbit each other?
Fully willing to admit I may be misinterpreting your theory, but from the images I've seen in the wiki, it appears they share an orbit around a common gravitational center. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2017, 07:04:12 PM »
You are assuming that North America on a Flat Earth would shaped as it is in Round Earth Theory.

The shape of North America is well known. Please provide evidence that it's not.
Nothing Guest has ever said should be taken as representative of anything other than Guest's own delusions opinions.

Offline zp0okii

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Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2017, 07:28:16 PM »

Quote
We presently lack the funding to look into the matter to any acceptable level. However, the point stands.

So, you have no evidence to stand against the work of cartographers? Are all cartographers conspiring to propagate the "Round Earth Myth"? You need to provide evidence of some kind if this is the case - a defector's interview, or something to that effect. Are you prepared to furnish those?

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The Round Earth coordinate system would look different on a Flat Earth, since lat/long assumes a Round Earth, and therefore the landmasses would look different. This is deserving of a research project. Unfortunately there is a lack of funding to look into this matter at present.

Cartographers are paid to do this kind of thing all the time - and many do it for fun on their own! How are we able to travel if our maps are incorrect? We have sacrificed relative size of regions for accuracy in distance (the classic maps we see are an example of this) - if the world were flat, this wouldn't be necessary! Distance and size would be constant due to transcribing locations from a flat plane (a flat earth) onto another flat plane (some paper).

Quote
The sun and moon have traveled over the surface of the earth for eons. It is possible to create a model which predict where the coordinates of the Sun's path will be tomorrow based on previous occurrences. It has traveled that path before and is therefore predicable.

But NASA can predict the next path of totality for the solar eclipse in 2024 - can Flat Earthers do this?

Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2017, 07:36:08 PM »
The sun and moon have traveled over the surface of the earth for eons. It is possible to create a model which predict where the coordinates of the Sun's path will be tomorrow based on previous occurrences. It has traveled that path before and is therefore predicable.

But NASA can predict the next path of totality for the solar eclipse in 2024 - can Flat Earthers do this?
FE (using the Saros cycle) can indeed predict a path and date, because each pass of a Saros cycle moves by a known amount. What I believe they cannot predict - at the very least to the same degree of accuracy - is the precise times the eclipse passes over any location, and how long it stays there. That isn't something the Saros cycle would know as far as I'm aware, but NASA can in fact predict with their equations.

geckothegeek

Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2017, 04:53:48 AM »
Tom - how do the sun and moon cross paths if they orbit one another?

Where in our materials have you seen it stated that they orbit each other?

One animated diagram shows the moon and the sun in the same orbital path over the flat earth.
One flat earth definition says the moon and the sun are both 30 miles in diameter and 3000 miles above the earth.
Since the moon and the sun travel at different speeds, what keeps them from colliding with each other ?
The animated diagram shows them always separated by 180 degrees, but this would be impossible ?



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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2017, 09:06:24 AM »
Are all cartographers conspiring to propagate the "Round Earth Myth"?
Of course not. What a preposterous suggestion. There is no Round Earth conspiracy. Cartographers operate under the false premise of the Earth being round because the people we've entrusted as experts in the field have told us the Earth is round. It's not the cartographers' fault - they're merely doing their job following a set of sensible instructions.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2017, 09:54:57 AM »
Are all cartographers conspiring to propagate the "Round Earth Myth"?
Of course not. What a preposterous suggestion. There is no Round Earth conspiracy. Cartographers operate under the false premise of the Earth being round because the people we've entrusted as experts in the field have told us the Earth is round. It's not the cartographers' fault - they're merely doing their job following a set of sensible instructions.
Where are these instructions?

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2017, 11:17:46 AM »
You are assuming that North America on a Flat Earth would shaped as it is in Round Earth Theory.
What shape would you suggest for the USA, something like this?

1888 Topographic Survey Map of the United States
Or is "North America on a Flat Earth" somehow different?  How about this one? It does not look markedly different.

1892-new-standard-map-of-the-world - North America
So maybe you could give us a definitive map of North America on three real world.

Offline Mock

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Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2017, 11:30:43 AM »
Since Tom probably won't bother to reply anyway (as he always does when he gets stuck), let me save you some waiting time.

"You'll have to prove those maps are not based on RE latitudes and longitudes or using other RE assumptions"

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Offline Rounder

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Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2017, 12:41:27 PM »
FE (using the Saros cycle) can indeed predict a path and date, because each pass of a Saros cycle moves by a known amount. What I believe they cannot predict - at the very least to the same degree of accuracy - is the precise times the eclipse passes over any location, and how long it stays there. That isn't something the Saros cycle would know as far as I'm aware, but NASA can in fact predict with their equations.
They really can't, in fact.  The Saros cycle is a good tool to estimate the eclipse timing, but tells you only the approximate longitudes where it may be visible, not the precise path.  To get the path requires accuracy to the second (which the Saros cycle does not provide) and correct geometry (which the FE does not provide).  The Saros cycle method doesn't tell you if the eclipse will be partial, total, annular, or hybrid.  It doesn't give you duration.  It doesn't give you path width.   

Consider the data for the Saros cycle of the August 2017 eclipse.  Here is that data:



Notice the 4th column, which gives the difference between consecutive eclipses in this Saros cycle.  If one could accurately calculate it by simply adding 8 years, 11 days, and 8 hours, then that column would all have the same number in it.  The reason it does not: the Saros cycle is a convenient way to categorize eclipses and to ESTIMATE their timing.  To get timing accurate to the second, and a corresponding geographic accuracy, one must calculate by understanding the orbital ephemeris of the bodies involved.
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Offline zp0okii

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Re: Path of Totality doesn't add up with the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2017, 05:01:31 PM »
I would love for Tom Bishop to respond to my response to him!