Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2013, 09:27:23 PM »
The effect of crypto currency may change how we view the economy and the types of economic system we have.

So my answer is the economic system that best suits an increasingly interconnected world.

Offline spank86

  • *
  • Posts: 252
    • View Profile
Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2013, 09:41:54 PM »
In a communist society where the government owns all means of production in the economy, what incentive is there for the government to do anything beyond providing the basic necessities for the population, such as creating Facebook, filming expensive $300 Million Dollar movies, or publishing XBox 360 games?

It's cheaper than martial law?

Plus I suspect people in government quite like movies too.

*

Offline Excelsior John

  • *
  • Posts: 730
  • Excelsior! Flat Earth FTW!
    • View Profile
    • Excelsior! Flat Earth
Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2013, 12:21:09 AM »
Capitalism is best in encouraging innovation.
And corruption. And greed. And rascism
Viva la FES!
Quote from: Yaakov ben Avraham link=https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59968.msg1544396#msg1544396
Excelsior:...You are clearly a reasonable and intelligent person.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2013, 12:39:16 AM »
1 spelling error in 1 sentence. I'm not sure about capitalism breeding racism, but it does breed the other 2. I agree w/ EJ, which is unheard of.

Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2013, 02:27:26 AM »
Capitalism breeds greed, not real sure about corruption.  Communism breeds corruption.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2013, 02:30:48 AM »
Duck, I would say both systems can breed that!

*

Offline Sean

  • *
  • Posts: 2244
  • Shitty liberal.
    • View Profile
Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2013, 02:32:05 AM »
Duck, I would say both any systems can breed that!
Quote from: sandokhan
You are rushying to unwarranted conclusions

Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2013, 06:25:21 AM »
You can satiate the greed through noncorrupt means in capitalism, not so much in communism.

*

Offline Sean

  • *
  • Posts: 2244
  • Shitty liberal.
    • View Profile
Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2013, 03:20:01 PM »
Greed is not inherently bad... and greedy != corrupt.
Quote from: sandokhan
You are rushying to unwarranted conclusions

Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2013, 04:17:36 PM »
Where did I say greed was bad?  I also indicated that greed isn't always corrupt and that capitalism has a method to be greedy without being corrupt.

*

Offline Sean

  • *
  • Posts: 2244
  • Shitty liberal.
    • View Profile
Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2013, 04:21:22 PM »
Oh, hah i just misread your post as you can't have through non corrupt means.sorry
Quote from: sandokhan
You are rushying to unwarranted conclusions

*

Offline Eddy Baby

  • *
  • Posts: 311
  • Posts: 10602
    • View Profile
Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2013, 04:41:30 PM »
Nordic model is best

Although I grew out of full blown communism when I was 16 or so, I do believe that the state has some obligation to protect and care for its citizens. For example, the idea of rich companies or persons buying swathes of properties purely to drive house prices/rent up is, in my opinion, inexcusable; although I don't believe such an activity should be made illegal, I think the state has a duty to limit this by, for example, encouraging housing cooperatives.

So if the question is capitalism/communism, then definitely capitalism. But pretty far left.

Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2013, 04:59:10 PM »
Capitalism needs an opt out system to function properly, part of why monopolies are illegal. If people were able to have a comfortable life without a home and property then capitalism would do its magic in regulation because people wouldn't buy if the price wasn't right.  So I can agree with you that some government intervention is needed to protect the consumer.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2013, 05:04:35 PM »
To be honest, I think that since full blown communism is not likely to ever work outside of theoretical models, which are fine on paper or in computer simulations, but not when you do with real people, it seems that the Nordic method is the best one devised so far. Enough capitalism not to stifle creativity (look at Nokia, which is a Finnish company; they basically invented the modern cell phone!), and enough state intervention to control the worst aspects of capitalism. They have essentially an enlightened Socialism, and it seems to work pretty well for them, all told.

Offline spank86

  • *
  • Posts: 252
    • View Profile
Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2013, 05:20:29 PM »
Capitalism needs an opt out system to function properly, part of why monopolies are illegal. If people were able to have a comfortable life without a home and property then capitalism would do its magic in regulation because people wouldn't buy if the price wasn't right.  So I can agree with you that some government intervention is needed to protect the consumer.

In part it's government regulation that even allows monopolies to form.

It's only by giving big business a regulatory and tax advantage compared to small that they don't become unwieldy.

If businesses were taxed at the same rate as private citizens then they'd be much more restricted.

*

Offline Excelsior John

  • *
  • Posts: 730
  • Excelsior! Flat Earth FTW!
    • View Profile
    • Excelsior! Flat Earth
Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2013, 10:37:47 PM »
1 spelling error in 1 sentence. I'm not sure about capitalism breeding racism, but it does breed the other 2. I agree w/ EJ, which is unheard of.
It breeds rascism because it causes prejidice and discrimation for my felow African Americans by bringing us down in the system and causes major class divide. Wereas in socialism the people are equel and it does not mater what your race. Oh yeah and people in socialism...ACTULEY CARE ABOUT PEOPLE!!!!!!!
Viva la FES!
Quote from: Yaakov ben Avraham link=https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59968.msg1544396#msg1544396
Excelsior:...You are clearly a reasonable and intelligent person.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6721
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2013, 10:43:06 AM »
It's cheaper than martial law?

Plus I suspect people in government quite like movies too.

Possibly. Although I somewhat doubt the government would take risks by filming $300 million dollar movies.

What about innovation?

When we had film cameras in an era monopolized by Kodak, someone else developed digital cameras to compete, eventually taking over the market. Today digital cameras dominate.

If the world had film cameras, sold and supplied by the government, and private enterprise did not exist, why would the government ever pour money into R&D in attempt to compete with itself? It seems like we would stay at the same technology level forever.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 10:46:10 AM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Offline spank86

  • *
  • Posts: 252
    • View Profile
Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2013, 12:26:54 PM »
It's cheaper than martial law?

Plus I suspect people in government quite like movies too.

Possibly. Although I somewhat doubt the government would take risks by filming $300 million dollar movies.

What about innovation?

When we had film cameras in an era monopolized by Kodak, someone else developed digital cameras to compete, eventually taking over the market. Today digital cameras dominate.

If the world had film cameras, sold and supplied by the government, and private enterprise did not exist, why would the government ever pour money into R&D in attempt to compete with itself? It seems like we would stay at the same technology level forever.

Slight question, perhaps I should have lead with this one but, in communism... what government?

The camera firm would be run by the camera workers, which would be people who were good at and wanted to make cameras. One of them would invent the digital camera and the workers would vote on whether it was a line of research that could be productive and worth pursuing OR the guy that thought of them would continue working on them in his shed at home.


In the Russian bastardized communism someone still invented Tetris.

Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2013, 09:39:22 PM »
Because of an ever more interconnected world. The worlds economic market is moving away from the construct of the state.

States will have less power to influence the economic market.

So to answer the op, depends on the economic system that promotes healthy growth within an interconnected world. It may not fit into any of the usual definitions of an economic system.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 09:59:36 PM by DDDDAts all folks »

Re: Which Economic System is Best?
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2013, 08:37:22 AM »
A viable economic system requires access to energy.

That is why the Eurozone, in its present form, is struggling to survive. With no oil or gas reserves (with the exception of Norway and some countries in Eastern Europe) at its disposal, it must rely on nuclear plants (France), coal (Germany) or very expensive imports of gas/oil to satisfy its energy demands.

Free market capitalism has been tried only for a very brief period of time in history: United States, 1830 - 1860.

Since 1860 the United States (not to mention Europe) has been a mixed economy.

Capitalism = political and economic freedom

To understand why H. Spencer, J. Stuart Mill, J.M. Keynes and F.A. Hayek were actually socialists, and moreover, how the doctrine of socialism has ruled over american/european politics ever since 1880, please read:

http://www.amazon.com/Ominous-Parallels-End-Freedom-America/dp/0452011175/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1386933858&sr=1-1&keywords=ominous+parallels

(chapters Kant Versus America, America Reverses Direction, Convulsion and Paralysis, A Republic If You Can Keep It)


In the official chronology, all Founding Fathers were vehemently opposed to democracy.

From this view of the subject it may be concluded that a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert result from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property. (J. Madison)

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. (T. Jefferson)



« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 11:25:49 AM by sandokhan »