The Flat Earth Society

Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Alchemist21 on December 01, 2013, 10:40:25 PM

Title: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Alchemist21 on December 01, 2013, 10:40:25 PM
Some say capitalism that encourages competition and motivation to improve product quality and prices. Others say socialism that gives a fair share to all who contribute to society.  Some might say the answer lies in a mix of two or more systems.

So what are the opinions of our members on this matter?
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Blanko on December 01, 2013, 10:45:06 PM
One that we haven't figured out yet, but it's probably pretty similar to capitalism.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Rushy on December 01, 2013, 10:45:21 PM
All economic systems are perfect, that is, until you put people in them.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: DuckDodgers on December 01, 2013, 11:12:28 PM
A system similar to capitalism is probably best.  With the lack of product knowledge the average consumer has (whether from laziness, product complexity, or dissimilarities of competitor products), the system would need to have some consumer protection built into it.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: RoundEarthisRound on December 01, 2013, 11:20:06 PM
American-style Capitalism.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Vindictus on December 01, 2013, 11:55:07 PM
A free market is an appealing thought, but to me it seems to result in big monopolies and the rich rigging the system to benefit themselves.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: spoon on December 02, 2013, 05:20:28 AM
Best for what? For smart people? For stupid people? Or even worse, actual people?! If people were intelligent, a completely free market would self regulate in a very effective way.

Since a nation's economy is mostly predicated on its government, the question is basically "Which governing system is best?"

The answer to that question is anarchy. Again, that's only if people are smart. The dumber people are, the more government is necessary.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Alchemist21 on December 02, 2013, 05:22:45 AM
Best for what? For smart people? For stupid people? Or even worse, actual people?! If people were intelligent, a completely free market would self regulate in a very effective way.

Since a nation's economy is mostly predicated on its government, the question is basically "Which governing system is best?"

The answer to that question is anarchy. Again, that's only if people are smart. The dumber people are, the more government is necessary.

I suppose the question is geared towards practicality.  Which is most practical in reality?
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: spoon on December 02, 2013, 05:29:41 AM
The one that works best
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Rama Set on December 02, 2013, 06:49:19 PM
I like capitalism for all interactions between private citizens with some regulation so that citizens with large amounts of capital are not able to abuse those with less.  For government interactions with people I prefer socialism.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Excelsior John on December 03, 2013, 12:10:40 AM
Some say capitalism that encourages competition and motivation to improve product quality and prices. Others say socialism that gives a fair share to all who contribute to society.  Some might say the answer lies in a mix of two or more systems.

So what are the opinions of our members on this matter?
Socialism because its fair. Capitalism is all about money money money. Only the greedey fat cats benifit of capitalism while the poor is starving and dying and the goverment is doing nothing to help it. Obama himself is trying to help out the poor being the good caring man he is while evil rascist greedey rich republistupit basterds keep on giving more and more to the rich. Not to forget there taxing the poor higher than the rich while the rich just sit there in there filthyness and greed and dont care about there poor brethren. Anyone who suports capitalism is a rascist
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on December 03, 2013, 01:40:05 AM
Well, this is an interesting question, and many things need to be considered carefully. True Communism would be best in my mind, but I don't think that it can ever be achieved in reality, because people, any people, tend to be greedy. Take a man who has millions, he will want more. Take a man who has nothing, and give him something, and he will want more. This is obvious by the number of people who are on welfare and yet pump out more and more kids every year in order to the increase in that check.

EJ, I know that you are a troll, but just because a person doesn't like Obama's political views, doesn't mean he is racist. I voted for the man twice, and I have VERY mixed views of how he's done so far. And no, I don't consider myself racist in any sense, although my lack of political correctness may sometimes make me very blunt. Frankly, in defence of truth I don't care who I offend, whether, they are Black, White, Brown, green, or purple.

Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Saddam Hussein on December 03, 2013, 03:54:36 AM
EJ, I know that you are a troll

Then stop replying to him.  There's no "but."  Just stop it.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 03, 2013, 05:42:28 AM
In a communist society where the government owns all means of production in the economy, what incentive is there for the government to do anything beyond providing the basic necessities for the population, such as creating Facebook, filming expensive $300 Million Dollar movies, or publishing XBox 360 games?
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Socker on December 03, 2013, 06:25:46 AM
Communism can be just as effective or better than capitalism in theory, but it seems to always breed corruption, so I guess capitalism wins it for me.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: DuckDodgers on December 03, 2013, 06:39:21 AM
Capitalism has the checks and balances that communism doesn't.  The best way to prevent corruption is to make it harder to partake in the corruption.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Socker on December 03, 2013, 06:54:02 AM
Capitalism has the checks and balances that communism doesn't.  The best way to prevent corruption is to make it harder to partake in the corruption.

True, but just about everyone will call corruption on any form of government.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Alchemist21 on December 03, 2013, 04:10:38 PM
Capitalism has the checks and balances that communism doesn't.  The best way to prevent corruption is to make it harder to partake in the corruption.

True, but just about everyone will call corruption on any form of government.

Capitalism runs the risk of corporate corruption, not just government corruption.  Sometimes there's corruption in both areas as corporations try to bribe the government to ignore illicit and unethical practices.  In capitalism, money is power, and power corrupts.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Excelsior John on December 03, 2013, 09:26:03 PM
Well, this is an interesting question, and many things need to be considered carefully. True Communism would be best in my mind, but I don't think that it can ever be achieved in reality, because people, any people, tend to be greedy. Take a man who has millions, he will want more. Take a man who has nothing, and give him something, and he will want more. This is obvious by the number of people who are on welfare and yet pump out more and more kids every year in order to the increase in that check.

EJ, I know that you are a troll, but just because a person doesn't like Obama's political views, doesn't mean he is racist. I voted for the man twice, and I have VERY mixed views of how he's done so far. And no, I don't consider myself racist in any sense, although my lack of political correctness may sometimes make me very blunt. Frankly, in defence of truth I don't care who I offend, whether, they are Black, White, Brown, green, or purple.
Uh im pretty sure im not a troll so stop being a jerk. I never called you a rascist but sometimes you seem like one (not to forget the nazi beleif in Jewish as a race). And yes you are vary politcley incorect I was sickened by those coments you made in .org. And btw these are my views so DEAL WITH IT BUCKO!
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Sean on December 04, 2013, 05:58:45 PM
Capitalism is best in encouraging innovation.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on December 04, 2013, 09:27:23 PM
The effect of crypto currency may change how we view the economy and the types of economic system we have.

So my answer is the economic system that best suits an increasingly interconnected world.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: spank86 on December 04, 2013, 09:41:54 PM
In a communist society where the government owns all means of production in the economy, what incentive is there for the government to do anything beyond providing the basic necessities for the population, such as creating Facebook, filming expensive $300 Million Dollar movies, or publishing XBox 360 games?

It's cheaper than martial law?

Plus I suspect people in government quite like movies too.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Excelsior John on December 05, 2013, 12:21:09 AM
Capitalism is best in encouraging innovation.
And corruption. And greed. And rascism
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on December 05, 2013, 12:39:16 AM
1 spelling error in 1 sentence. I'm not sure about capitalism breeding racism, but it does breed the other 2. I agree w/ EJ, which is unheard of.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: DuckDodgers on December 05, 2013, 02:27:26 AM
Capitalism breeds greed, not real sure about corruption.  Communism breeds corruption.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on December 05, 2013, 02:30:48 AM
Duck, I would say both systems can breed that!
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Sean on December 05, 2013, 02:32:05 AM
Duck, I would say both any systems can breed that!
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: DuckDodgers on December 05, 2013, 06:25:21 AM
You can satiate the greed through noncorrupt means in capitalism, not so much in communism.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Sean on December 05, 2013, 03:20:01 PM
Greed is not inherently bad... and greedy != corrupt.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: DuckDodgers on December 05, 2013, 04:17:36 PM
Where did I say greed was bad?  I also indicated that greed isn't always corrupt and that capitalism has a method to be greedy without being corrupt.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Sean on December 05, 2013, 04:21:22 PM
Oh, hah i just misread your post as you can't have through non corrupt means.sorry
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Eddy Baby on December 05, 2013, 04:41:30 PM
Nordic model is best

Although I grew out of full blown communism when I was 16 or so, I do believe that the state has some obligation to protect and care for its citizens. For example, the idea of rich companies or persons buying swathes of properties purely to drive house prices/rent up is, in my opinion, inexcusable; although I don't believe such an activity should be made illegal, I think the state has a duty to limit this by, for example, encouraging housing cooperatives.

So if the question is capitalism/communism, then definitely capitalism. But pretty far left.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: DuckDodgers on December 05, 2013, 04:59:10 PM
Capitalism needs an opt out system to function properly, part of why monopolies are illegal. If people were able to have a comfortable life without a home and property then capitalism would do its magic in regulation because people wouldn't buy if the price wasn't right.  So I can agree with you that some government intervention is needed to protect the consumer.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on December 05, 2013, 05:04:35 PM
To be honest, I think that since full blown communism is not likely to ever work outside of theoretical models, which are fine on paper or in computer simulations, but not when you do with real people, it seems that the Nordic method is the best one devised so far. Enough capitalism not to stifle creativity (look at Nokia, which is a Finnish company; they basically invented the modern cell phone!), and enough state intervention to control the worst aspects of capitalism. They have essentially an enlightened Socialism, and it seems to work pretty well for them, all told.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: spank86 on December 05, 2013, 05:20:29 PM
Capitalism needs an opt out system to function properly, part of why monopolies are illegal. If people were able to have a comfortable life without a home and property then capitalism would do its magic in regulation because people wouldn't buy if the price wasn't right.  So I can agree with you that some government intervention is needed to protect the consumer.

In part it's government regulation that even allows monopolies to form.

It's only by giving big business a regulatory and tax advantage compared to small that they don't become unwieldy.

If businesses were taxed at the same rate as private citizens then they'd be much more restricted.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Excelsior John on December 05, 2013, 10:37:47 PM
1 spelling error in 1 sentence. I'm not sure about capitalism breeding racism, but it does breed the other 2. I agree w/ EJ, which is unheard of.
It breeds rascism because it causes prejidice and discrimation for my felow African Americans by bringing us down in the system and causes major class divide. Wereas in socialism the people are equel and it does not mater what your race. Oh yeah and people in socialism...ACTULEY CARE ABOUT PEOPLE!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 08, 2013, 10:43:06 AM
It's cheaper than martial law?

Plus I suspect people in government quite like movies too.

Possibly. Although I somewhat doubt the government would take risks by filming $300 million dollar movies.

What about innovation?

When we had film cameras in an era monopolized by Kodak, someone else developed digital cameras to compete, eventually taking over the market. Today digital cameras dominate.

If the world had film cameras, sold and supplied by the government, and private enterprise did not exist, why would the government ever pour money into R&D in attempt to compete with itself? It seems like we would stay at the same technology level forever.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: spank86 on December 08, 2013, 12:26:54 PM
It's cheaper than martial law?

Plus I suspect people in government quite like movies too.

Possibly. Although I somewhat doubt the government would take risks by filming $300 million dollar movies.

What about innovation?

When we had film cameras in an era monopolized by Kodak, someone else developed digital cameras to compete, eventually taking over the market. Today digital cameras dominate.

If the world had film cameras, sold and supplied by the government, and private enterprise did not exist, why would the government ever pour money into R&D in attempt to compete with itself? It seems like we would stay at the same technology level forever.

Slight question, perhaps I should have lead with this one but, in communism... what government?

The camera firm would be run by the camera workers, which would be people who were good at and wanted to make cameras. One of them would invent the digital camera and the workers would vote on whether it was a line of research that could be productive and worth pursuing OR the guy that thought of them would continue working on them in his shed at home.


In the Russian bastardized communism someone still invented Tetris.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on December 08, 2013, 09:39:22 PM
Because of an ever more interconnected world. The worlds economic market is moving away from the construct of the state.

States will have less power to influence the economic market.

So to answer the op, depends on the economic system that promotes healthy growth within an interconnected world. It may not fit into any of the usual definitions of an economic system.
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: sandokhan on December 13, 2013, 08:37:22 AM
A viable economic system requires access to energy.

That is why the Eurozone, in its present form, is struggling to survive. With no oil or gas reserves (with the exception of Norway and some countries in Eastern Europe) at its disposal, it must rely on nuclear plants (France), coal (Germany) or very expensive imports of gas/oil to satisfy its energy demands.

Free market capitalism has been tried only for a very brief period of time in history: United States, 1830 - 1860.

Since 1860 the United States (not to mention Europe) has been a mixed economy.

Capitalism = political and economic freedom

To understand why H. Spencer, J. Stuart Mill, J.M. Keynes and F.A. Hayek were actually socialists, and moreover, how the doctrine of socialism has ruled over american/european politics ever since 1880, please read:

http://www.amazon.com/Ominous-Parallels-End-Freedom-America/dp/0452011175/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1386933858&sr=1-1&keywords=ominous+parallels

(chapters Kant Versus America, America Reverses Direction, Convulsion and Paralysis, A Republic If You Can Keep It)


In the official chronology, all Founding Fathers were vehemently opposed to democracy.

From this view of the subject it may be concluded that a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert result from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property. (J. Madison)

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. (T. Jefferson)



Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: Saddam Hussein on December 13, 2013, 07:48:38 PM
Sandokhan!  Hooray!
Title: Re: Which Economic System is Best?
Post by: spoon on December 14, 2013, 04:14:55 AM
He didn't even address the OP other than mentioning the need for energy...