I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« on: June 16, 2017, 09:16:51 AM »
Hello fellow flatbros.

I have made a 3d model of the flat earth, the size of the earth is to scale(roughly 12700km in diameter). And the earth and moon's position and size are based entirely on the flat earth society calculations.
I have made it completely free if you want to download it for yourself.

DOWNLOAD:
https://files.fm/u/s99b5zkn
I also made a quick youtube video explaining why etc
YOUTUBE:


Please note, my model has no atmosphere, no clouds, the camera is NOT calibrated to resemble a human's vision. And therefore the sun never completely disappears over the horizon UNLESS there is a landscape for it to disappear behind.

Let me know what you think, how i could improve the model etc.

Thanks
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 09:28:37 AM by Psychovisual »

Offline Rory

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Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2017, 11:02:40 PM »
Quote
the camera is NOT calibrated to resemble a human's vision

I don't understand, what exactly is different about human vision that could be calibrated other than field of view?

Also your map appears very distorted around the edges, especially Australia which looks super stretched out.

Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2017, 02:18:22 AM »
Wow, that was really cool, what software did you use?

I'd like to see what the sun and moon look like when they travel overhead or nearly overhead and then away from the observer on your model.

Still if the landscape is flat, there's no way the sun and moon should appear to set, adding dense atmosphere won't make much of a difference, the sun and moon will just disappear into the atmosphere, they won't appear to disappear underneath the earth.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 02:21:42 AM by Antithecystem »

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2017, 03:31:27 PM »
I don't see how "calibrating to resemble a human's vision" is going to help you here.  What this does is to prove what RE'ers such as myself have been saying all along - you can't get a sunset/sunrise to happen with a Flat Earth model without messing up the location of the sun in the sky for other places in the world.

You need rules of physics that allow light rays to bend in order to explain how you could get sunsets to happen...and I'm quite certain that your 3D rendering software doesn't support that.  (Oh - you're using Unity3D - so I can tell you right now that it can't do that).

As it happens, my day job is as a 3D graphics engineer and I modestly submit that after 40 years in the business, I'm a world leading expert on the subject - so you're not going to be able to pull the wool over my eyes here!

Your simulation also has two very serious flaws - even by FET standards.

FIRSTLY: The light cast by the FET sun can't be omnidirectional (like a 3D graphics omni-directional light object) - and it can't be a circular cross-section light source like a flashlight either (as the Wiki claims) because it has to be able to illuminate a semi-circular portion of the Earths surface in order to explain how there can be a sunrise at a point 180 degrees of longitude away from other places that are seeing a sunset:



In the image above, the sun is over the equator and it's noon in Australia and noon at the North and South poles.   Notice how a semicircle of the flat earth MUST be illuminated in order to explain what we see in the real world.

So - first amend your model to get the right light source shape - and then explain what the heck you mean by "calibrating to resemble a human's vision" - bearing in mind that I'm an expert and I'm definitely going to call you out if you attempt any hand-wavey flim-flam.

I speak your language - so please tell me how you'd alter (for example) the projection matrix values (or whatever else it takes) to get your "human vision calibration" right.

SECONDLY: I can tell you before you start though that to accurately portray what the FE'ers are claiming, you're going to do a LOT more clever rendering work than this.   In their world, light doesn't travel in straight lines...or else there can be no sunsets over level ground/ocean - they claim (vaguely) that the rules of perspective are "wrong" and that maybe light gets refracted somehow to create sunsets.   Sadly, neither of these can be simulated in Unity - so your pretty simulation is worthless.

Getting any 3D rendering package to simulate curved light beams is HARD...and without that, I'm afraid your pretty pictures only demonstrate very clearly that FET is incorrect.

If you have the ability to do 3D graphics with curved light beams then I'd be VERY interested to see the results - but I somehow doubt you know how to do that.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 03:46:41 PM by 3DGeek »
Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2017, 04:02:15 PM »
it has to be able to illuminate a semi-circular portion of the Earths surface in order to explain how there can be a sunrise at a point 180 degrees of longitude away from other places that are seeing a sunset:


Your image does not accurately represent what happens in the real world. Therefore, your "requirement" is as useless as it is artificial.

they claim (vaguely) that the rules of perspective are "wrong"
That's just about the opposite of what we're claiming. Please read ENaG.

If you have the ability to do 3D graphics with curved light beams then I'd be VERY interested to see the results - but I somehow doubt you know how to do that.
That wouldn't be particularly difficult - all you'd need to do is alter an existing ray-tracing algorithm slightly to account for the Bishop Constant. What it would be, however, is both prohibitively time-consuming and rather useless for practical purposes. You wouldn't want to bend light twice.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 04:04:06 PM by SexWarrior »
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Offline 3DGeek

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Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2017, 05:58:31 PM »
it has to be able to illuminate a semi-circular portion of the Earths surface in order to explain how there can be a sunrise at a point 180 degrees of longitude away from other places that are seeing a sunset:

Your image does not accurately represent what happens in the real world. Therefore, your "requirement" is as useless as it is artificial.
That's interesting - in what way does it fail to represent the real world?

The information on the Wiki suggests (but does not definitively state) that the sun casts a circular patch of light onto the world - but that simply cannot explain the fact that (at least on the equinox - which is what my image depicts), sunrise and sunset times are the same for all points at the same longitude...that demands that sunlight crosses the FE world in a straight line - not a curve.

Are you denying these sunrise and sunset times?

they claim (vaguely) that the rules of perspective are "wrong"
That's just about the opposite of what we're claiming. Please read ENaG.

Well, ENaG is pretty vague on the subject - but whether we're talking something to do with perspective or something related to refraction - FET absolutely demands that light does not travel in straight lines because otherwise the sun "misses" the horizon just as it does in the animation.

If you have the ability to do 3D graphics with curved light beams then I'd be VERY interested to see the results - but I somehow doubt you know how to do that.
That wouldn't be particularly difficult - all you'd need to do is alter an existing ray-tracing algorithm slightly to account for the Bishop Constant. What it would be, however, is both prohibitively time-consuming and rather useless for practical purposes. You wouldn't want to bend light twice.

Our original poster is using a piece of software called "Unity3D" to do the animation and rendering (I know this software VERY well) - it doesn't use Ray Tracing - and even if it did, it wouldn't be a "slight" change to the software to fix it.   Ray tracing software typically contains numerous optimisations and shortcuts that presume that the refractive index is constant within one material - and therefore light travels in straight lines.   You'd probably have to start from scratch with an entirely new raytracer (and it would indeed be horrifically slow!).

The "Bishop equation" is unnecessarily complicated.  You can simplify and say: y is proportional to x to the power 4/3 - which gives you the shape of the curve.

At large scales, it's a straight line - with some flattening close to X=0...which kinda makes sense.  Problem is - that it's radially symmetrical - which means that you'd see the sunset on the Northern horizon at midnight.

At any rate - is there someplace I can go and look at the full version of this equation?   Math doesn't scare me in the least - I'm sure I can handle it.
Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2017, 06:29:32 PM »
That's interesting - in what way does it fail to represent the real world?
It suggests wildly inaccurate sunrise and sunset times for most of the world.

The information on the Wiki suggests (but does not definitively state) that the sun casts a circular patch of light onto the world
Yeah, it doesn't do that. It even provides you with an example animation so you can't pretend otherwise.

(at least on the equinox - which is what my image depicts), sunrise and sunset times are the same for all points at the same longitude...that demands that sunlight crosses the FE world in a straight line - not a curve.
Please back up your assertion.

Are you denying these sunrise and sunset times?
Not yet. Let's see your justification first.

Well, ENaG is pretty vague on the subject - but whether we're talking something to do with perspective or something related to refraction - FET absolutely demands that light does not travel in straight lines because otherwise the sun "misses" the horizon just as it does in the animation.
Please read ENaG.

Our original poster is using a piece of software called "Unity3D" to do the animation and rendering
Yes.

(I know this software VERY well)
Congratulations.

it doesn't use Ray Tracing
I didn't suggest it does, nor did I suggest that you should be using something as limiting and restricting as Unity. At least now I can see why you thought this would be difficult.

and even if it did, it wouldn't be a "slight" change to the software to fix it
Agree to disagree. Your confusion stems from the fact that you're trying to implement a low-level change at a relatively high level, and shove it onto a piece of software that's completely unfit for purpose to begin with.

Ray tracing software typically contains numerous optimisations and shortcuts that presume that the refractive index is constant within one material - and therefore light travels in straight lines.   You'd probably have to start from scratch with an entirely new raytracer (and it would indeed be horrifically slow!).
Congratulations - you've somehow managed to say exactly what I said ("It would be prohibitively time-consuming"), just with many, many more words. But no, replacing the assumption of straight-line travel through uniform materials with an assumption of a differently-curved path would not be particularly *difficult* to implement. It would just take time, and be completely useless in the end, which is perhaps the best reason not to do it.

The "Bishop equation" is unnecessarily complicated. [...] Math doesn't scare me in the least
Please make up your mind. Then, read up on the basics of FET. I'm not here to lecture you.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 06:42:34 PM by SexWarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2017, 08:07:56 PM »
That's interesting - in what way does it fail to represent the real world?
It suggests wildly inaccurate sunrise and sunset times for most of the world.

How so?
Beunos Aires, Argentina and Shanghai, China are approximate Antipodes.
According to http://www.sunrisesunset.com/ which I can attest are accurate for my location, the sun is rising in one, while it sets in the other. This would suggest the half circle of light is indeed a fairly accurate representation of sunrise/sunset times in the world. I would be curious to see your suggestion of a more accurate model, but a circular disk upon the Earth as suggested by the wiki, would not match this without creating daylight in places that are not in daylight at that time.

Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2017, 10:52:31 PM »
I'd like to see what the sun and moon look like when they travel overhead or nearly overhead and then away from the observer on your model.

I'd like to see an attempt at this too.  As I imagine the moving of the Sun on the Flat Earth model, I can never figure out how it could possibly work.  This 3D rendering shows how it doesn't work.  It is possible to make a model that actually looks like the real Sun on a typical day?
There's nothing more dangerous than an idea, if it's the only one you have. -Émile Chartier

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2017, 03:50:56 PM »
I notice the original poster has gone oddly quiet.

Is this a tacit admission that his demonstration actually demonstrates why FET DOESN'T work - not that it does?

I'd like to hear his responses to my reasoned critique here...graphics guy to graphics guy.

Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

Offline Efins

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Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2017, 05:53:10 PM »
I don't see how "calibrating to resemble a human's vision" is going to help you here.  What this does is to prove what RE'ers such as myself have been saying all along - you can't get a sunset/sunrise to happen with a Flat Earth model without messing up the location of the sun in the sky for other places in the world.

You need rules of physics that allow light rays to bend in order to explain how you could get sunsets to happen...and I'm quite certain that your 3D rendering software doesn't support that.  (Oh - you're using Unity3D - so I can tell you right now that it can't do that).

As it happens, my day job is as a 3D graphics engineer and I modestly submit that after 40 years in the business, I'm a world leading expert on the subject - so you're not going to be able to pull the wool over my eyes here!

Your simulation also has two very serious flaws - even by FET standards.

FIRSTLY: The light cast by the FET sun can't be omnidirectional (like a 3D graphics omni-directional light object) - and it can't be a circular cross-section light source like a flashlight either (as the Wiki claims) because it has to be able to illuminate a semi-circular portion of the Earths surface in order to explain how there can be a sunrise at a point 180 degrees of longitude away from other places that are seeing a sunset:



In the image above, the sun is over the equator and it's noon in Australia and noon at the North and South poles.   Notice how a semicircle of the flat earth MUST be illuminated in order to explain what we see in the real world.

So - first amend your model to get the right light source shape - and then explain what the heck you mean by "calibrating to resemble a human's vision" - bearing in mind that I'm an expert and I'm definitely going to call you out if you attempt any hand-wavey flim-flam.

I speak your language - so please tell me how you'd alter (for example) the projection matrix values (or whatever else it takes) to get your "human vision calibration" right.

SECONDLY: I can tell you before you start though that to accurately portray what the FE'ers are claiming, you're going to do a LOT more clever rendering work than this.   In their world, light doesn't travel in straight lines...or else there can be no sunsets over level ground/ocean - they claim (vaguely) that the rules of perspective are "wrong" and that maybe light gets refracted somehow to create sunsets.   Sadly, neither of these can be simulated in Unity - so your pretty simulation is worthless.

Getting any 3D rendering package to simulate curved light beams is HARD...and without that, I'm afraid your pretty pictures only demonstrate very clearly that FET is incorrect.

If you have the ability to do 3D graphics with curved light beams then I'd be VERY interested to see the results - but I somehow doubt you know how to do that.

I agree! and the sun? does the sun have to have a "ad hoc" shape in order to explain this theory? Ok... wait... this sounds just like "creating a immaginary world to match all the phenomena that are uncomprehensible to those men whose don't want to acknowledge that the Earth is round"

Max_Almond

Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2018, 06:07:19 PM »
Hello fellow flatbros.

I have made a 3d model of the flat earth, the size of the earth is to scale(roughly 12700km in diameter). And the earth and moon's position and size are based entirely on the flat earth society calculations.
I have made it completely free if you want to download it for yourself.

DOWNLOAD:
https://files.fm/u/s99b5zkn
I also made a quick youtube video explaining why etc
YOUTUBE:


Please note, my model has no atmosphere, no clouds, the camera is NOT calibrated to resemble a human's vision. And therefore the sun never completely disappears over the horizon UNLESS there is a landscape for it to disappear behind.

Let me know what you think, how i could improve the model etc.

Thanks

That's really cool, and I congratulate the maker.

Is that the best 'model' of the flat earth people know about? Has anyone had a go at making a physical model?

Offline iamcpc

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Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2019, 09:12:00 PM »
Let me know what you think, how i could improve the model etc.

The model with the north pole in the center of a disk does not reconcile well with shipping times, travel times, and modern cartography which has been corroborated every day by hundreds of thousands of people (myself included). This problem has been mentioned several times in the threads linked below:

Either your model is incorrect or your continental configuration is incorrect or a combination of both.


Here are several discussions in which the topic is about how travel times, travel distances, shipping distances, and shipping times independently verified hundreds of thousands of people every day don't match that model.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9213
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=11791.0
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=11329.0
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633


A more accurate models are these:
www.mapquest.com
maps.yahoo.com
http://suncalc.net


People here don't like it because it depicts the earth as an infinite repeating plane. It reconciles very well with travel times, travel distances, shipping distances, and shipping times independently verified hundreds of thousands of people every day. It also has a system in which a full moon could be visible to everyone on earth at the same time.






Second off your model is very limited. There are many flat earthers who believe there is no dome. There are some flat earthers who believe the earth is an infinite plane which your model does not reflect. Some people believe the is a firmament which is not reflected in your model either. Anyone who believes in a great ice wall would have a problem with your model as well.

In addition your model is a self lit moon model (because the moon must be generating it's own light in that model to create a full moon which is visible to everyone on earth. In your model a full moon would only be visible to people north of the equator but not south of the equator or visa versa.


Here's a demonstration of my point:


Notice how in this model North America should have a full moon while South America has a new moon?  The problem with this is that when I'm seeing a full moon in North America that same full moon is in South America. I know because I've been to South America. When I drove to Canada for a canoeing trip the lunar cycle didn't change.

Here is an extensive discussion about your flat earth model and the only conclusion which could accurately explain why a full moon is visible to everyone (in both North America and South America) your model must have one of 2 things.

1. The moon is MUCH further away from the earth that it is in your model.
2. The moon is generating it's own light.



Here's a link to where it was discussed in depth
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=10056.0


« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 11:44:53 PM by iamcpc »

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Offline ElTrancy

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Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2019, 02:17:17 PM »
<img src="https://flatearth.ws/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/day-night-area.jpg" alt="Image result for flat earth model"/>

Explain how this happens on a flat Earth...
Please fucking launch a mininuke at me, I've become hopelessly lost.

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2019, 02:31:44 PM »
<img src="https://flatearth.ws/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/day-night-area.jpg" alt="Image result for flat earth model"/>

Explain how this happens on a flat Earth...
There was a gif made to represent this as well as the same image mapped to a sphere to show how accurate the lighting works on a globe.




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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2019, 02:40:01 PM »
Who proved such lighting?

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Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2019, 02:55:18 PM »
Who proved such lighting?
Ignoring the fact that there are people covering so much of the land in the world that you can communicate with and tell each other what the time is and how dark it is outside, showing timezones to be accurate, anyone who's been to Antarctica can confirm the constant daytime during summer. I would show video footage but there's no point since you can just claim it's fake or whatever. Before you say no one is allowed to Antarctica, we are. People go there all the time. Yes there is paperwork involved and it's a long process that can also be rejected but it still happens.

If you don't want to believe anyone else about the times in different timezones feel free to travel around the world and keep a note of how dark it is at what times on your own watch. If you still refuse to believe the Antarctica summer, well what can we do to prove that it's a thing? There's witnesses from the general public and video footage, you could go on an expedition too.

EDIT: Just for the hell of it, I'll link a video anyway.you can choose to believe it or not I suppose.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 02:57:57 PM by ChrisTP »