Offline 3DGeek

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Tides.
« on: May 17, 2017, 04:09:20 AM »
According to the Wiki, tides in the FE theory are due to gravity from the sun and moon.

How does this explain that there are TWO lunar tides in each 24 hour period?  In the RE model, the Earth/Moon system orbit around a point a little off-center from the center of the (round) Earth. The tide that happens when the moon is overhead is just gravity, same in FE and RE physics.  But the second daily tide (which happens in RE theory because centrifugal force produces that second tide due to the off-center rotation of the Earth.

What is the FE explanation for that second daily tide?

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Tides.
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2017, 10:09:18 PM »
19 views...no answers?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Tides.
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2017, 10:04:01 AM »
19 views...no answers?
Relax, half of those views were probably you re-checking the thread. People generally only respond to posts they're interested in, and "hi I didn't do my research plz do it for me" falls quite low on that list.

According to the Wiki, tides in the FE theory are due to gravity from the sun and moon.

How does this explain that there are TWO lunar tides in each 24 hour period?  In the RE model, the Earth/Moon system orbit around a point a little off-center from the center of the (round) Earth. The tide that happens when the moon is overhead is just gravity, same in FE and RE physics.  But the second daily tide (which happens in RE theory because centrifugal force produces that second tide due to the off-center rotation of the Earth.

What is the FE explanation for that second daily tide?
To begin with, you are incorrect about how tides work in the RE model. A "tide" isn't a singular event that's somehow isolated from the rest of the day. As the Moon circles around the Round Earth, it pulls water in its direction. This is an ongoing process.

Here, for example, is the tide chart for Bondi Beach in Sydney: http://tides.willyweather.com.au/nsw/sydney/bondi-beach.html



You may notice the pattern's striking similarity to a sine wave, which should be obvious given the elliptical pattern of the Moon's movement around the hypothetical round Earth, and the round Earth's rotation around its own axis.



Now that you have a fundamental understanding of RE tides, let's return to your question: How does the Flat Earth model explain tides?
The answer, perhaps unsurprisingly, is that it's not much different from RE. The Moon travels around the Earth in an elliptical pattern and pulls the water along with it. The direction and strength of that pull depends on where the Moon is on its path.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 10:05:39 AM by SexWarrior »
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Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Tides.
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2017, 03:59:54 PM »
No - the moon passes overhead ONCE per day - producing a peak in that sine wave as it goes overhead (plus or minus a bit to allow for the time for the water to flow to where ever it needs to be).  BUT...and this is the critical thing...about 12 hours later - when (in RE terms) the moon is on the opposite side of the Earth - there is a SECOND high tide.

So your sine wave (which isn't a bad approximation of what we see) has TWO peaks and TWO troughs in every 24 hour cycle.

Actually, because (in RE terms) the moon moves around the Earth once every lunar month - AND the Earth is rotating - the cycle isn't exactly 24 hours...but roughly speaking...there are TWO high tides and TWO low tides every day.

If you check here:

http://www.myforecast.com/bin/tide.m?city=30578&metric=false&tideLocationID=T8285

You'll see that on Sunday, in Houston Texas, there will be high tides at 6:15 AM and 6:23 PM and low tides at 12:48 PM and 11:50 AM.

In RE, the first high tide happens when the moon is at it's zenith (plus or minus a bit) - and the second when the moon is on the opposite side of the Earth.  That second tide happens because the Earth and Moon both rotate about a common center-of-gravity that's not at the center of the earth - so there is a centrifugal force acting on the side of the planet that's furthest from the moon that creates that second tide each day.

I understand your explanation of the FE moon having gravity and causing tides...makes perfect sense (well, kinda)...but you CANNOT explain the second tide in the same way.   If the Moon's gravity was the only cause then there would be just one high tide and just one low tide each day...because (just as in RE) your moon will only be overhead ONCE in Houston Texas this Sunday.

There are CLEARLY two tides every day.   This is a fact that absolutely anyone can easily check for themselves - and for which tide charts are easily available if you don't want to move from your chair to verify it.

Your moon can't produce a second tide...it's too far away - when the second tide comes in in Houston, your moon is over the other side of the world!

So...where is the second tide coming from?

If you can't explain this - you don't have any clue as to how tides are formed because FE theory predicts only one tide per day - so the idea that the moon's gravity is responsible simply doesn't work.

Come what may - your Wiki is incorrect.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 04:05:22 PM by 3DGeek »

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Tides.
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2017, 07:42:49 PM »
So - at time of writing, 85 people have viewed this thread - and the only response so far can only explain ONE tide per day and not TWO.

Have FE'ers given up on this?


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Offline TitanicShark

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Re: Tides.
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2017, 01:18:42 PM »
So - at time of writing, 85 people have viewed this thread - and the only response so far can only explain ONE tide per day and not TWO.

Have FE'ers given up on this?

I think at this point it is just too much nonsense they are throwing out there and are just desperate. I barely see any flat earthers reply to my posts anymore.

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Re: Tides.
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2017, 01:21:39 PM »
Indeed.

You'd hope that they'd all decided that FE theory was bogus and given up on it - however they are still giving talks at large religious gatherings, writing books, etc.

I've yet to see an FE'er openly admit to having been persuaded that they are wrong.

But it's definitely gone very quiet out there.

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Tides.
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2017, 02:10:28 PM »
Indeed.

You'd hope that they'd all decided that FE theory was bogus and given up on it - however they are still giving talks at large religious gatherings, writing books, etc.

I've yet to see an FE'er openly admit to having been persuaded that they are wrong.

But it's definitely gone very quiet out there.

Logic is hard to argue with.  Plus the fact that Fe'ers don't agree on many concepts.  Maps, is the moon a sphere or a disk, southern star issues,  etc. 
The distance from New York to Paris is unknown.

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Tides.
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2017, 09:40:21 PM »
Indeed.

You'd hope that they'd all decided that FE theory was bogus and given up on it - however they are still giving talks at large religious gatherings, writing books, etc.

I've yet to see an FE'er openly admit to having been persuaded that they are wrong.

But it's definitely gone very quiet out there.

Logic is hard to argue with.  Plus the fact that Fe'ers don't agree on many concepts.  Maps, is the moon a sphere or a disk, southern star issues,  etc.

Yeah - that's true - but many of the fundamental FE problems are unrelated to the differences the proponents have.

Tides is a good one.   ANYONE can see that the major oceans of the world produce two high tides and two low tides per day.   This is pretty much undeniable - it's not faked - anyone can spend the day by the seaside and see this happening with their own two eyes.

The tides are undoubtedly tied to the moon - sailors have been using the moon to guide them as to when the high and low tides will be there.

But on a flat earth, you can only explain ONE of the two tides...the other (which in RE happens when the moon is on the opposite side of the planet due to centrifugal force as Earth and Moon co-orbit their barycenter)...cannot be explained here.   It just can't.

Which is why the one answer we had said there was only one tide per day - and when pointed out that there were two, has gone strangely silent on the topic.

Re: Tides.
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 04:16:03 PM »
According to the Wiki, tides in the FE theory are due to gravity from the sun and moon.

How does this explain that there are TWO lunar tides in each 24 hour period?  In the RE model, the Earth/Moon system orbit around a point a little off-center from the center of the (round) Earth. The tide that happens when the moon is overhead is just gravity, same in FE and RE physics.  But the second daily tide (which happens in RE theory because centrifugal force produces that second tide due to the off-center rotation of the Earth.

What is the FE explanation for that second daily tide?
Easy.  Both the Sun and the Moon exert an influence on the water, thus there are two high tides each day since both the Sun and the Moon cross the dome once a day.  C'mon, ask a tough one.  :D

Re: Tides.
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2017, 04:25:10 PM »
According to the Wiki, tides in the FE theory are due to gravity from the sun and moon.

How does this explain that there are TWO lunar tides in each 24 hour period?  In the RE model, the Earth/Moon system orbit around a point a little off-center from the center of the (round) Earth. The tide that happens when the moon is overhead is just gravity, same in FE and RE physics.  But the second daily tide (which happens in RE theory because centrifugal force produces that second tide due to the off-center rotation of the Earth.

What is the FE explanation for that second daily tide?
Easy.  Both the Sun and the Moon exert an influence on the water, thus there are two high tides each day since both the Sun and the Moon cross the dome once a day.  C'mon, ask a tough one.  :D
What happens during the new moon when the sun and moon are both in the sky at the same time, and thus both on the same 'half' of the Earth? We still get two high tides on those days. Try again.
FET - A few old books making claims and telling you how things must be based on the words contained therein. This sounds familiar....

The triangle doesn't work

Re: Tides.
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2017, 04:32:54 PM »
According to the Wiki, tides in the FE theory are due to gravity from the sun and moon.

How does this explain that there are TWO lunar tides in each 24 hour period?  In the RE model, the Earth/Moon system orbit around a point a little off-center from the center of the (round) Earth. The tide that happens when the moon is overhead is just gravity, same in FE and RE physics.  But the second daily tide (which happens in RE theory because centrifugal force produces that second tide due to the off-center rotation of the Earth.

What is the FE explanation for that second daily tide?
Easy.  Both the Sun and the Moon exert an influence on the water, thus there are two high tides each day since both the Sun and the Moon cross the dome once a day.  C'mon, ask a tough one.  :D
What happens during the new moon when the sun and moon are both in the sky at the same time, and thus both on the same 'half' of the Earth? We still get two high tides on those days. Try again.
  This is just silly.  This is why we have neap tides and 'Spring' tides.  Tho' the RE explanations and names are wrong, they do represent the variance we find in tides.  Some lows are lower, some high tides are higher.  This reflects the fact the Sun and Moon are different distances above the Earth and travel at different speeds.  Sometimes their effect on the water coincides, sometimes it counters; that is, sometimes the effect is additive, sometimes subtractive.  Two bodies, two tides.  This is as plain as the fact that when you look outside, the Earth is flat.  What am I gonna believe?  YOU, or may own two eyes? :D

Re: Tides.
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2017, 04:43:04 PM »
According to the Wiki, tides in the FE theory are due to gravity from the sun and moon.

How does this explain that there are TWO lunar tides in each 24 hour period?  In the RE model, the Earth/Moon system orbit around a point a little off-center from the center of the (round) Earth. The tide that happens when the moon is overhead is just gravity, same in FE and RE physics.  But the second daily tide (which happens in RE theory because centrifugal force produces that second tide due to the off-center rotation of the Earth.

What is the FE explanation for that second daily tide?
Easy.  Both the Sun and the Moon exert an influence on the water, thus there are two high tides each day since both the Sun and the Moon cross the dome once a day.  C'mon, ask a tough one.  :D
What happens during the new moon when the sun and moon are both in the sky at the same time, and thus both on the same 'half' of the Earth? We still get two high tides on those days. Try again.
  This is just silly.  This is why we have neap tides and 'Spring' tides.  Tho' the RE explanations and names are wrong, they do represent the variance we find in tides.  Some lows are lower, some high tides are higher.  This reflects the fact the Sun and Moon are different distances above the Earth and travel at different speeds.  Sometimes their effect on the water coincides, sometimes it counters; that is, sometimes the effect is additive, sometimes subtractive.  Two bodies, two tides.  This is as plain as the fact that when you look outside, the Earth is flat.  What am I gonna believe?  YOU, or may own two eyes? :D
But neap tides don't happen at the correct time. Once again, how do you explain two tides, during the roughly 7 days the around the new moon that sun and moon share the sky? A neap tide occurs halfway between full and new. Twice per lunar month. Not for 7 days straight around the new moon.
FET - A few old books making claims and telling you how things must be based on the words contained therein. This sounds familiar....

The triangle doesn't work

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Tides.
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 05:39:36 PM »
According to the Wiki, tides in the FE theory are due to gravity from the sun and moon.

How does this explain that there are TWO lunar tides in each 24 hour period?  In the RE model, the Earth/Moon system orbit around a point a little off-center from the center of the (round) Earth. The tide that happens when the moon is overhead is just gravity, same in FE and RE physics.  But the second daily tide (which happens in RE theory because centrifugal force produces that second tide due to the off-center rotation of the Earth.

What is the FE explanation for that second daily tide?
Easy.  Both the Sun and the Moon exert an influence on the water, thus there are two high tides each day since both the Sun and the Moon cross the dome once a day.  C'mon, ask a tough one.  :D
What happens during the new moon when the sun and moon are both in the sky at the same time, and thus both on the same 'half' of the Earth? We still get two high tides on those days. Try again.
  This is just silly.  This is why we have neap tides and 'Spring' tides.  Tho' the RE explanations and names are wrong, they do represent the variance we find in tides.  Some lows are lower, some high tides are higher.  This reflects the fact the Sun and Moon are different distances above the Earth and travel at different speeds.  Sometimes their effect on the water coincides, sometimes it counters; that is, sometimes the effect is additive, sometimes subtractive.  Two bodies, two tides.  This is as plain as the fact that when you look outside, the Earth is flat.  What am I gonna believe?  YOU, or may own two eyes? :D

If what you said was true - then one of the two high tides would ALWAYS be at noon - when the sun is closes to being overhead...and the other one would cycle around from day to day.
  But anyone who ever lived near the ocean would immediately tell you that there is no high tide at noon on most days.

Also, on days when the moon is "new" (so it's in roughly the same part of the sky as the sun, you'd get one VERY high tide when they were both close to zenith - and no tide at all for the next 20-some hours.   This also NEVER HAPPENS.

So your theory just doesn't work does it?

So will you now come clean and admit that your cockamamie theory is incorrect?   I think you should.

Perhaps you have a new and excitingly different theory to replace your old one?   Either way, I know you're guessing - and you have to be concerned that I'll be able to refute that one in 20 seconds flat too?

Maybe you'll just do what most FE'ers do, which is to stop responding when the going gets tough?

Let's see what happens shall we?    If I don't hear back from you, I'll send you a PM to remind you to.

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Re: Tides.
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 05:51:59 PM »
According to the Wiki, tides in the FE theory are due to gravity from the sun and moon.

How does this explain that there are TWO lunar tides in each 24 hour period?  In the RE model, the Earth/Moon system orbit around a point a little off-center from the center of the (round) Earth. The tide that happens when the moon is overhead is just gravity, same in FE and RE physics.  But the second daily tide (which happens in RE theory because centrifugal force produces that second tide due to the off-center rotation of the Earth.

What is the FE explanation for that second daily tide?
Easy.  Both the Sun and the Moon exert an influence on the water, thus there are two high tides each day since both the Sun and the Moon cross the dome once a day.  C'mon, ask a tough one.  :D

This isn't possible. If there is gravity between the Earth and sun/moon, they would all collide. Orbits work because the orbiting body is always falling over the horizon, so to speak. With no orbit around the Earth the Sun/moon would be drawn in by the gravitational pull.
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
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Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Tides.
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2017, 06:01:19 PM »
According to the Wiki, tides in the FE theory are due to gravity from the sun and moon.

How does this explain that there are TWO lunar tides in each 24 hour period?  In the RE model, the Earth/Moon system orbit around a point a little off-center from the center of the (round) Earth. The tide that happens when the moon is overhead is just gravity, same in FE and RE physics.  But the second daily tide (which happens in RE theory because centrifugal force produces that second tide due to the off-center rotation of the Earth.

What is the FE explanation for that second daily tide?
Easy.  Both the Sun and the Moon exert an influence on the water, thus there are two high tides each day since both the Sun and the Moon cross the dome once a day.  C'mon, ask a tough one.  :D

This isn't possible. If there is gravity between the Earth and sun/moon, they would all collide. Orbits work because the orbiting body is always falling over the horizon, so to speak. With no orbit around the Earth the Sun/moon would be drawn in by the gravitational pull.

Well...logically...yes...but I think the FE'ers are thinking about the kind of magical fairy-gravity that only pulls on water and doesn't have the temerity to pull on the Earth itself.

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Re: Tides.
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2017, 06:11:06 PM »
According to the Wiki, tides in the FE theory are due to gravity from the sun and moon.

How does this explain that there are TWO lunar tides in each 24 hour period?  In the RE model, the Earth/Moon system orbit around a point a little off-center from the center of the (round) Earth. The tide that happens when the moon is overhead is just gravity, same in FE and RE physics.  But the second daily tide (which happens in RE theory because centrifugal force produces that second tide due to the off-center rotation of the Earth.

What is the FE explanation for that second daily tide?
Easy.  Both the Sun and the Moon exert an influence on the water, thus there are two high tides each day since both the Sun and the Moon cross the dome once a day.  C'mon, ask a tough one.  :D

This isn't possible. If there is gravity between the Earth and sun/moon, they would all collide. Orbits work because the orbiting body is always falling over the horizon, so to speak. With no orbit around the Earth the Sun/moon would be drawn in by the gravitational pull.

Well...logically...yes...but I think the FE'ers are thinking about the kind of magical fairy-gravity that only pulls on water and doesn't have the temerity to pull on the Earth itself.

Even its less-than-audacious tugging on the oceans of the world would be enough to overcome the inertia of their silly little moon.
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Tides.
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2017, 06:25:23 PM »
According to the Wiki, tides in the FE theory are due to gravity from the sun and moon.

How does this explain that there are TWO lunar tides in each 24 hour period?  In the RE model, the Earth/Moon system orbit around a point a little off-center from the center of the (round) Earth. The tide that happens when the moon is overhead is just gravity, same in FE and RE physics.  But the second daily tide (which happens in RE theory because centrifugal force produces that second tide due to the off-center rotation of the Earth.

What is the FE explanation for that second daily tide?
Easy.  Both the Sun and the Moon exert an influence on the water, thus there are two high tides each day since both the Sun and the Moon cross the dome once a day.  C'mon, ask a tough one.  :D

This isn't possible. If there is gravity between the Earth and sun/moon, they would all collide. Orbits work because the orbiting body is always falling over the horizon, so to speak. With no orbit around the Earth the Sun/moon would be drawn in by the gravitational pull.

Well...logically...yes...but I think the FE'ers are thinking about the kind of magical fairy-gravity that only pulls on water and doesn't have the temerity to pull on the Earth itself.

Even its less-than-audacious tugging on the oceans of the world would be enough to overcome the inertia of their silly little moon.

You're forgetting the invisible (flying!) purple unicorn towing it across the sky, scattering moonbeams from her holy hooves and farting rainbow-colored cosmic rays and neutrino's as she goes.

(Although, the inertia of the unicorn is somewhat harder to explain.)