[markjo]

Given how long it takes to upgrade a 747 to Air Force One standards, I seriously doubt that it will ever be legitimately used as Air Force One.  They might just as well hand it over to the Trump library off the bat.

[honk]

Given how long it takes to upgrade a 747 to Air Force One standards, I seriously doubt that it will ever be legitimately used as Air Force One.  They might just as well hand it over to the Trump library off the bat.

It's far more likely that they won't bother upgrading or modifying it at all, and Trump will just use it as-is. Who's going to stop him?

[markjo]

Given how long it takes to upgrade a 747 to Air Force One standards, I seriously doubt that it will ever be legitimately used as Air Force One.  They might just as well hand it over to the Trump library off the bat.

It's far more likely that they won't bother upgrading or modifying it at all, and Trump will just use it as-is. Who's going to stop him?

He’ll have to wait for the upgrades if he wants to communicate on a platform more secure than Signal.

[Lord Dave]

Given how long it takes to upgrade a 747 to Air Force One standards, I seriously doubt that it will ever be legitimately used as Air Force One.  They might just as well hand it over to the Trump library off the bat.

It's far more likely that they won't bother upgrading or modifying it at all, and Trump will just use it as-is. Who's going to stop him?

He’ll have to wait for the upgrades if he wants to communicate on a platform more secure than Signal.

Oh he won't care about that.  What he should care about is all the stuff that keeps him from being shot out of the sky.  Or surviving a crash if it happens.  Or medical services onboard.  Inflight refueling.  You know... Stuff for a long term command center of the president.

[markjo]

Oh he won't care about that.  What he should care about …

Come now, we all know that he doesn’t care about a great number of things that he should care about.  You know, things like not crashing the world economy or defending the constitution.

[Tom Bishop]

The luxury plane, which would be one of the most valuable gifts ever received by the U.S. government, would eventually be donated to Trump's presidential library after he leaves office, the source said.

Like I've said before, there is no Trump presidential library. This plane is a gift to Donald Trump himself, not to the office of the president or the federal government.

This is wrong. There is a Trump Presidential Library and it's part of the federal government. The plane is going back to the federal government.

https://www.trumplibrary.gov - "The Trump Presidential Library is part of the Presidential Libraries system administered by the National Archives and Records Administration, a federal agency."

The federal government will be deciding what to do with the plane after Trump leaves office.

[Lord Dave]

Oh he won't care about that.  What he should care about …

Come now, we all know that he doesn’t care about a great number of things that he should care about.  You know, things like not crashing the world economy or defending the constitution.

Not dying is something Trump cares alot about.

[Lord Dave]

The luxury plane, which would be one of the most valuable gifts ever received by the U.S. government, would eventually be donated to Trump's presidential library after he leaves office, the source said.

Like I've said before, there is no Trump presidential library. This plane is a gift to Donald Trump himself, not to the office of the president or the federal government.

This is wrong. There is a Trump Presidential Library and it's part of the federal government. The plane is going back to the federal government.

https://www.trumplibrary.gov - "The Trump Presidential Library is part of the Presidential Libraries system administered by the National Archives and Records Administration, a federal agency."

The federal government will be deciding what to do with the plane after Trump leaves office.

So basically....

"I will gift my plane not to the next president but to...my library.  So the librarian can fly it or something."

>_>

[Tom Bishop]

So basically....

"I will gift my plane not to the next president but to...my library.  So the librarian can fly it or something."

>_>

I don't see evidence that anyone is intending to fly it. Several presidents have their vehicles displayed in their presidential library, such as Ronald Regan's library:

https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2012/10/31/archives-spotlight-the-ronald-reagan-presidential-library-and-museum/

The Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum is located in Simi Valley, California—about 40 miles northwest of Los Angeles—and holds over 60 million pages of documents, 1.6 million photographs, hundreds of thousands of feet of audiovisual material, and 40,000 artifacts.

In the Air Force One Pavilion, you can tour Air Force One (tail number 27000). This airplane carried Presidents Nixon, Carter, Ford, Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Clinton, and George W. Bush all over the world and the United States. This “Flying White House” was integral to Reagan’s presidency: he wrote many speeches, signed legislation, and relaxed while traveling in Air Force One.

You can also visit an exhibit on Presidential motorcades. Vehicles include one of Reagan’s presidential limousines, Secret Service suburbans, and a Marine One helicopter that flew President Johnson.

Considering that the US Taxpayers are not even paying for this plane, the library can more easily justify making the plane a tourist exhibit of Trump's presidency. Since this is a gift to the Trump Presidency which will be used for his presidency, it should logically be immortalized as Trump's flying palace and admired by the world.

If you thought that the goal was simply to give it to Trump as another plane, you were looking too low and thinking too small. Its existence as a opulent Trump exhibit is a far grander vision and is obviously the gameplan with this plane.

[markjo]

Considering that the US Taxpayers are not even paying for this plane…

If Trump ever plans on using it as Air Force One, then the US Taxpayers will most certainly be on the hook for upgrading it to Air Force One standards, and that won’t be cheap.

[Tom Bishop]

Yep, I called it. In a press conference about this Trump even mentions the plane exhibit in Ronald Regan's library as a model for this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTnDlrNPzgc

@3:21
it's something that was done by Ronald Reagan
they actually decommissioned the plane
and he put it in his library and it
actually has made the library I think a
Boeing 707 uh it's actually made the
library uh more successful so it was
good

do you plan to use the plane after you leave office?

no I don't no it would it would go
directly to the library after after I
leave office

Considering that the US Taxpayers are not even paying for this plane…

If Trump ever plans on using it as Air Force One, then the US Taxpayers will most certainly be on the hook for upgrading it to Air Force One standards, and that won’t be cheap.

Yes, and they are going to take the stuff they install back afterwards.

[Lord Dave]

Yep, I called it. In a press conference about this Trump even mentions the plane exhibit in Ronald Regan's library as a model for this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTnDlrNPzgc

@3:21
it's something that was done by Ronald Reagan
they actually decommissioned the plane
and he put it in his library and it
actually has made the library I think a
Boeing 707 uh it's actually made the
library uh more successful so it was
good

do you plan to use the plane after you leave office?

no I don't no it would it would go
directly to the library after after I
leave office

Considering that the US Taxpayers are not even paying for this plane…

If Trump ever plans on using it as Air Force One, then the US Taxpayers will most certainly be on the hook for upgrading it to Air Force One standards, and that won’t be cheap.

Yes, and they are going to take the stuff they install back afterwards.

Clinton and Bush were after Regan. 

https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/permanent-exhibits/air-force-one-pavilion#:~:text=Opening%20in%202005%2C%20the%20Air,U.S.%20presidents%20from%201973%2D2001.

So basically, the Regan plane (and Clinton and Bush) was used for 28 years.
Trump wants to use it for 4.  A brand new plane.  Used for 4 years.  Does that make sense to you?


Also, you can not just "take it out". These are major upgrades and changes to the entire structure of the plane.  You can take out some equipment but most of the cost is not removable.

And again: 4 years.  Well... Less actually since it takes a while to build it to spec.
So 3 years.  A brand new plane in use for 3 years.  Then the next president has to buy another one.

How is that saving money or efficient?  If Trump wants it in his library, we can put it there once it's beyond it's use and due for retirement.

[Tom Bishop]

Trump wants to use it for 4.  A brand new plane.  Used for 4 years.  Does that make sense to you?

It absolutely makes sense. It's a free plane to the American taxpayer and is going to be used for decades as a United States landmark. With this plane as a library feature exhibit it is going to help bring in millions of dollars in tourist revenue, not to mention notoriety. Ronald Regan's library makes 15M a year, and Trump's library will top this easily.

There are plenty of other aging planes in the federal collection that future presidents can use as Air Force One. The plane Trump is being given is also not "brand new" and is 13 years old.

[honk]

It is beyond pedantic to conflate a website with a physical building that every other president has built, especially when the subject under discussion is an airplane, a physical object that needs a physical structure to be stored in. Trump is not going to be storing the plane in a nonexistent structure when he leaves office. He is going to be keeping it, and the cowards whose job it is to hold him to account will once again just mumble about how much they disapprove.

[Lord Dave]

Trump wants to use it for 4.  A brand new plane.  Used for 4 years.  Does that make sense to you?

It absolutely makes sense. It's a free plane to the American taxpayer and is going to be used for decades as a United States landmark.

A landmark... where?  Because last I checked, Trump hasn't even made any comments on WHERE his presidential library will be, let alone began to build one.

With this plane as a library feature exhibit it is going to help bring in millions of dollars in tourist revenue, not to mention notoriety. Ronald Regan's library makes 15M a year, and Trump's library will top this easily.

Not sure that's accurate.  in 2020, they were losing $150,000 per week in revenue due to covid.
Which equates to $7.8 Million a year.  Half of what you stated.

There are plenty of other aging planes in the federal collection that future presidents can use as Air Force One. The plane Trump is being given is also not "brand new" and is 13 years old.

So Trump can use one of these aging planes and not have one be built, which is scheduled to be completed in 2027?  (ps. Trump is the one who orderd the thing.)

Also... this contract that's already been awarded... I can't seem to find it.  Curiouser and Curiouser....

[markjo]

It absolutely makes sense. It's a free plane to the American taxpayer and is going to be used for decades as a United States landmark.

But how long will it be used as Air Force One?

Thing is, the cost isn't even the worst part.  What sort of quid pro quo will Qatar expect in return for the "gift"?  This is why the Emoluments Clause says that the President may not accept such "gifts" without congressional approval.

[Tom Bishop]

Trump is not going to be storing the plane in a nonexistent structure when he leaves office. He is going to be keeping it, and the cowards whose job it is to hold him to account will once again just mumble about how much they disapprove.

Really? Why would he keep it when it can be a main feature of a major tourist destination dedicated to the Trump Presidency and further immortalize him? The museum would be a grander use for it. It is being given to the federally administered Trump library after his term because it will become a part of the Trump library. It's not too hard to understand.

A landmark... where?  Because last I checked, Trump hasn't even made any comments on WHERE his presidential library will be, let alone began to build one.

There is a bill to allow it to be built in Florida.

With this plane as a library feature exhibit it is going to help bring in millions of dollars in tourist revenue, not to mention notoriety. Ronald Regan's library makes 15M a year, and Trump's library will top this easily.

Not sure that's accurate.  in 2020, they were losing $150,000 per week in revenue due to covid.
Which equates to $7.8 Million a year.  Half of what you stated.

From Google AI:

>>ronald reagan museum yearly revenue

"The Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum generated approximately $33.3 million in total revenue for the year ending September 30, 2023, according to the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation & Institute."

They are making plenty of money.

So Trump can use one of these aging planes and not have one be built, which is scheduled to be completed in 2027?

He doesn't need to do that because one was given to his presidency as a gift, which will go on and serve as  a US landmark and help bring in millions to US revenues. It was given to Trump, not any other president. Your proposal appears to be for him to reject it, and thus deny us money.

It absolutely makes sense. It's a free plane to the American taxpayer and is going to be used for decades as a United States landmark.

But how long will it be used as Air Force One?

Thing is, the cost isn't even the worst part.  What sort of quid pro quo will Qatar expect in return for the "gift"?  This is why the Emoluments Clause says that the President may not accept such "gifts" without congressional approval.

It's only a quid pro quo if there is a pro quo. For example, if you sent me a link to redeem a $1000 Amazon gift card to my DM as a gift I would happily keep it and assume that you truly just wanted to give me a generous gift. I would give you nothing in return except for a message of thanks.

[AATW]

Tom. Hey! I'm not in a cult! Stop saying that MAGA is a cult!
Also Tom...

Why would he keep it when it can be a main feature of a major tourist destination dedicated to the Trump Presidency and further immortalize him?

All Hail Our Supreme Leader, May His Name Live On Forever!! #notacult

[Lord Dave]

A landmark... where?  Because last I checked, Trump hasn't even made any comments on WHERE his presidential library will be, let alone began to build one.

There is a bill to allow it to be built in Florida.

No, that's a bill to allow him to build one without having to follow state or local laws.  It says nothing about actually doing it.

So essentially... It's a concept of a plan.  He can't even be bothered to follow local building laws.  And even if it passes, no obligation to build it there.

With this plane as a library feature exhibit it is going to help bring in millions of dollars in tourist revenue, not to mention notoriety. Ronald Regan's library makes 15M a year, and Trump's library will top this easily.

Not sure that's accurate.  in 2020, they were losing $150,000 per week in revenue due to covid.
Which equates to $7.8 Million a year.  Half of what you stated.

From Google AI:

>>ronald reagan museum yearly revenue

"The Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum generated approximately $33.3 million in total revenue for the year ending September 30, 2023, according to the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation & Institute."

They are making plenty of money.

Yeah... You should read the PDF.  They have 36 million in expenses.  So their net profit is -3 million.

So Trump can use one of these aging planes and not have one be built, which is scheduled to be completed in 2027?

He doesn't need to do that because one was given to his presidency as a gift, which will go on and serve as  a US landmark and help bring in millions to US revenues. It was given to Trump, not any other president. Your proposal appears to be for him to reject it, and thus deny us money.

1. He ordered a new plane in 2018.  Now you're saying he didn't have to?
2. So millions in revenue per year while the next president has to spend hundreds of millions on another plane. 

3. The Regan Library had a profit of -3 million a year.  Trump is more hated than Regan.  He won't get nearly as many visitors or donations.  So... How would it make money?  Show me the math.

It's only a quid pro quo if there is a pro quo. For example, if you sent me a link to redeem a $1000 Amazon gift card to my DM as a gift I would happily keep it and assume that you truly just wanted to give me a generous gift. I would give you nothing in return except for a message of thanks.

And you know they didn't ask for something... How? 

[markjo]

It absolutely makes sense. It's a free plane to the American taxpayer and is going to be used for decades as a United States landmark.

But how long will it be used as Air Force One?

Thing is, the cost isn't even the worst part.  What sort of quid pro quo will Qatar expect in return for the "gift"?  This is why the Emoluments Clause says that the President may not accept such "gifts" without congressional approval.

It's only a quid pro quo if there is a pro quo. For example, if you sent me a link to redeem a $1000 Amazon gift card to my DM as a gift I would happily keep it and assume that you truly just wanted to give me a generous gift. I would give you nothing in return except for a message of thanks.

What do you think the Trump Organization’s luxury golf course in Qatar is supposed to be, if nothing less than a conflict of interest?   
https://apnews.com/article/trump-qatar-deal-conflicts-saudi-arabia-emoluments-7379bee2e307d39bd43b534a05ae3207

BTW, you didn’t say how long the plane would be used as Air Force One before it would be decommissioned.  Could the upgrades even be completed before the end of his term?  Do you really think that any savvy businessman would consider a reasonable return on investment for all of the required upgrades?