[Lord Dave]

What sources are they quoting?

If it is the same ones you guys are relying on, then they have just as much credence as you guys do.

They quote the law.  Like the actual law, with which specific section of the law it is and everything.

Where? Musta missed that. Gotta timestamp?

Yeah, I see. Around 14:45...Correct law, correct reading...Incorrect analysis regarding what was shared.

Legal eagle quotes law alot.  So not sure why you picked just one but ok.

Also, cool.  So you have a law degree?  Because last I heard, you made a few rules for the prison you worked at and think that makes you a law expert.

[Action80]

Again, it would be so beneficial for you to learn to read my fucking posts before you respond.

I have no problem with the one law or any of the laws that Devin cites in this case.

He just doesn't know how to fucking apply the laws.

Essentially, he is just like you and all the other goddamn harpies..."CLASSIFIED INFO!!! CLASSIFIED INFO!!!"

None of you fucking know a goddamn thing about classified fucking info.

[Lord Dave]

Again, it would be so beneficial for you to learn to read my fucking posts before you respond.

I have no problem with the one law or any of the laws that Devin cites in this case.

He just doesn't know how to fucking apply the laws.

Essentially, he is just like you and all the other goddamn harpies..."CLASSIFIED INFO!!! CLASSIFIED INFO!!!"

None of you fucking know a goddamn thing about classified fucking info.

I do.
However, as I'm sure you ignored, the espionage act doesn't require the info to be classified but simply have a potential to cause harm to the United States if it's released.  War plans like described would have been listed as confidential as they could cause harm to the US if they are leaked.  But the information isn't sensitive enough to reach secret level as the harm would be short term (failed mission, time to prepare defenses to shoot down the planes, etc...) and would not leave any lasting harm directly.


And even so, the entire crux of the problem isn't the info specially, it was that high level officials added someone who shouldn't be there to a group chat.  On a personal phone.  As they talked about sensitive military maneuvers.  And Signal uses your personal address list on your phone when you add people (or you type the number in manually) SO that means that unless he just happened to hit the right number by accident, he had The Atlantic's editor in chief in his contact list. 

If this guy's personal phone was ever compromised, it would be trivial to replace contact info so he'd be adding in spies to signal chats instead of using the actually secure devices that won't add anyone outside of approved people.

[Action80]

I ignored nothing.

Tell you what. You claim the ability to apply the law. Devin is certainly capable of filing suit against the Trump Administration. He can certainly press charges in this instance and demand accountability and for the law to be upheld. You two go ahead and get together and get to work, toot sweet.

[Lord Dave]

I ignored nothing.

Tell you what. You claim the ability to apply the law. Devin is certainly capable of filing suit against the Trump Administration. He can certainly press charges in this instance and demand accountability and for the law to be upheld. You two go ahead and get together and get to work, toot sweet.

Why?  Senate Republicans are doing that now.  I'll wait for them.

Plus, a criminal or civil cases can't be brought up by an uninjured entity. The only group that could file charges is the US government, specifically the AG.  And not even releasing the location of all our nuclear warheads would get that to happen, so it'll never be touched, legally, by the AG.

[Action80]

Wait, your now claiming citizens are uninjured?

Good to know.

Bitching can cease and case is closed.

[markjo]

Video snipped.

Entertainment lawyers have no credence in the discussion.

If you had bothered to watch the video, you would have seen that he brought on other lawyers who have more insight into such matters.  Like a former Judge Advocate General who knows a whole lot more about the laws regarding information security than you or Tom do.

[Lord Dave]

Wait, your now claiming citizens are uninjured?

Good to know.

Bitching can cease and case is closed.

Yes.  Because every information leak did no harm to citizens, directly.  The information isn't owned by the public and the people who would be injured is military.  Which falls under Trump.

Of course, you don't seem to understand that or how law works.  Or how... Anything works, really, except maybe the post button here.

[Shane]

lol

so calculated. so methodical.

also



what even is the point of these tariffs again?

[Shane]

no it doesn't...

edit: Tom posted this nonsense and deleted it: "This represents money coming out of the international companies and back to America." responding to the tanking markets

in other news: up is down and left is right

[Tom Bishop]

I was going to expand on that a bit more, but yes, the graph represents the money going out of the multi-nationals and back into the United States. It represents both the money going back to the US Public, and back to US companies who produce domestically.

Unless you are proposing that those traders will never trade again, they will simply shift to trade in the most profitable companies under this new tariff paradigm.

[Shane]

it is taking back our retirement funds.

no the stock market crashing isn't magically good now. every economic indicator points to disaster. stagflation coming soon... trump is tarriffing uninhibited islands and American military bases. none of this makes any sense. 

what this is, as it stands, is a 6 trillion dollar tax hike over the next 10 years on working Americans across the board while they push through their tax cuts for the rich.

[Lord Dave]

I was going to expand on that a bit more, but yes, the graph represents the money going out of the multi-nationals and back into the United States. It represents both the money going back to the US Public, and back to US companies who produce domestically.

Unless you are proposing that those traders will never trade again, they will simply shift to trade in the most profitable companies under this new tariff paradigm.

Except for the money that comes from foreign trade that now won't due to reciprocal tariffs.

This all happened before.  This is history repeating.  And everyone agrees that the Smoot-Hawley Tariff, which looks very similar to this shit, basically made the great depression far far worse.  Whether tariffs helped caused it or not is a matter of debate.  But no debate that it made it worse.

[Tom Bishop]

it is taking back our retirement funds.

This is why you are supposed to have the bulk of your retirement in US-guaranteed bonds or securities, only gambling a portion in the more-risky stocks. The US has the guns to impose its agenda and success. Other entities do not, and exist at the whims of US policy and turbulent market conditions.

no the stock market crashing isn't magically good now. every economic indicator points to disaster. stagflation coming soon... trump is tarriffing uninhibited islands and American military bases. none of this makes any sense. 

what this is, as it stands, is a 6 trillion dollar tax hike over the next 10 years on working Americans across the board while they push through their tax cuts for the rich.

Unlike a tax, you can choose not to pay it. Simply refrain from buying tariffed goods. In an ideal teriffed America you would see cheaper American brands on the shelf next to more expensive imported brands, who are forced to justify their increased price with innovation. Right now it's the reverse, where cheaper foreign goods flood the market and more expensive American brands can only survive with innovation for a smaller market share.

Trump has long suggested that he would level the playing field.

https://twitter.com/IanJaeger29/status/1907583794464673929

[Lord Dave]

it is taking back our retirement funds.

This is why you are supposed to have the bulk of your retirement in US-guaranteed bonds or securities, only gambling a portion in the more-risky stocks. The US has the guns to impose its agenda and success. Other entities do not, and exist at the whims of US policy and turbulent market conditions.

no the stock market crashing isn't magically good now. every economic indicator points to disaster. stagflation coming soon... trump is tarriffing uninhibited islands and American military bases. none of this makes any sense. 

what this is, as it stands, is a 6 trillion dollar tax hike over the next 10 years on working Americans across the board while they push through their tax cuts for the rich.

Unlike a tax, you can choose not to pay it. Simply refrain from buying tariffed goods. In an ideal teriffed America you would see cheaper American brands on the shelf next to more expensive imported brands, who are forced to justify their increased price with innovation. Right now it's the reverse, where cheaper foreign goods flood the market and more expensive American brands can only survive with innovation for a smaller market share.

Trump has long suggested that he would level the playing field.

https://twitter.com/IanJaeger29/status/1907583794464673929

Cheaper?

You uhh... Do know that prices for American goods won't decrease, right?  They'll still be as expensive as they've been.

[Lord Dave]

https://www.npr.org/2025/04/03/nx-s1-5350576/u-s-stocks-fall-tariffs-global-trade-war

I'm sure 1,200 point drop at opening is totally fine.  Right?  No one's 401k is part of the stock market?

[markjo]

Unlike a tax, you can choose not to pay it. Simply refrain from buying tariffed goods. In an ideal teriffed America you would see cheaper American brands on the shelf next to more expensive imported brands, who are forced to justify their increased price with innovation. Right now it's the reverse, where cheaper foreign goods flood the market and more expensive American brands can only survive with innovation for a smaller market share.

All of that presumes that American made alternatives exist.   For example, how many of the consumer electronic devices that we all know and love are actually made in America?

[Lord Dave]

Unlike a tax, you can choose not to pay it. Simply refrain from buying tariffed goods. In an ideal teriffed America you would see cheaper American brands on the shelf next to more expensive imported brands, who are forced to justify their increased price with innovation. Right now it's the reverse, where cheaper foreign goods flood the market and more expensive American brands can only survive with innovation for a smaller market share.

All of that presumes that American made alternatives exist.   For example, how many of the consumer electronic devices that we all know and love are actually made in America?

Or how many will be up and running with full replacement production in a week?

[Shane]

"Trump has had these misguided ideas for a long time" is quite an argument!

[Tom Bishop]

Cheaper?

You uhh... Do know that prices for American goods won't decrease, right?  They'll still be as expensive as they've been.

American goods are expensive in America because big business isn't investing in much automation infrastructure in America. In the last decades the investment focus is on the cheapest areas abroad. Sufficient tariffs will cause manufacturing to come back to America.

The US has the the right cards in doing this. The whole world is focused on grabbing at the consumer dollars in the US Market:

Bloomberg: U.S. Consumer Carries the World Economy, Says Baird's Antonelli

Reuters: Weight of world rests on US consumers' shoulders

See this table:

Wikipedia: List of largest consumer Markets

Household final consumption expenditure (HFCE)

Country	HFCE
	(millions of USD, nominal)
United States	21,081,812
European Union	9,860,153
China	6,720,652
Japan	2,320,919
Germany	2,215,427
France	2,155,988
India	2,140,000
United Kingdom	2,064,938
Brazil	1,311,778
Italy	1,280,149

I'm a mighty 21M in the USA, and AATW is a piddly 2M in the United Kingdom. He might as well be a homeless vagrant who has little money obtained from begging on the streets, as far as the interest is in big business to cater to his consumerism. Companies won't be cutting the US out any time soon. Trump is making sure that if they want to be competitive in the US Market, that they will invest in US infrastructure. It is only right that they manufacture here if they want our super dollars.

Other countries are not really in a position to force this kind of world-wide rearrangement in their favor, but the United States is.