[markjo]

The other thing you are forgetting (perhaps not, you probably just have no real clue) is that the US Capitol is a traditional public forum, and the citizens of the United States have a constitutional right to air their grievances in such a forum.

Do the citizens have the constitutional right to threaten the life of the vice-president for doing his constitutionally mandated duty?

[honk]

The VIPs were not secured.

I did say fairly quicky. For all I know, these cherry-picked moments of cops not actively fighting dozens of angry protesters came after the evacuations. And even if they didn't, I can still easily see cops making the snap decision to not start fights they couldn't possibly win. I can't say whether or not that was a sound tactical decision, but there's a world of difference between outnumbered cops not trying to fight protesters at a few given moments and the whole thing being a setup to make Trump supporters look bad.

After the Asley Babbit shooting the massive crowd of people in that wing turned back and left. There is well publicized video of this, taken from people within the crowd, which I am certain you are aware of. Stop LARPing. If there were people still in other distant wings after that, it is irrelevant to this demonstration that firearms worked to deter the crowd.

Okay, I looked up a video of the Babbitt shooting. I wouldn't call this a "massive crowd" of protesters. A few of the protesters do seem to leave after the shot is fired. Plenty of them can clearly be seen still sticking around. Perhaps more importantly, we then see a team of cops with assault rifles bring up the rear, which I imagine played far more of a role in whatever deterrence happened in this scenario than the one lone cop firing his sidearm. In any case, your description of what happened is extremely disingenuous, and it's also extremely disingenuous to compare this one particular moment to the cherry-picked scenes of dozens of angry, screaming protesters marching past one or two isolated cops and say that, gee, all these outnumbered cops had to do was fire off a round and all these protesters would have quietly run home.

But ultimately, none of this matters. We all saw the violence of Jan. 6th. We all saw the angry mobs, we all heard their promises to murder anyone stopping Trump from getting a second term, we all saw them battering at the doors and smashing the windows while screaming for blood. None of these quibbles about whether or not this or that cop was actively fighting the protesters or whether or not this or that door was opened for them changes what we all saw and heard. These people were not at the Capitol to peacefully protest. They knew it, and we know it.

[Lord Dave]

That's the thing in this case, like I've been saying.

The four words were never uttered in the case of Ashley Babbitt.

The other thing you are forgetting (perhaps not, you probably just have no real clue) is that the US Capitol is a traditional public forum, and the citizens of the United States have a constitutional right to air their grievances in such a forum.

There will come a day when I will be the one airing my grievances.

Paraphrasing LD: "let BLM and Antifa do whatever the fuck they want, can't shoot them", but people with a legitimate grievance (the election in 2020 was a total joke, regardless of the amount of nonsense propaganda you want to push) need to be summarily shot!"

Stick your bullshit back in your sock.

I'd imagine having a gun pointed at you while being told to get back is enough for most but I guess some people are too stupid to listen.  Glad she died. Should have killed more.


As for airing grievances... Sure.  But "hang Pence" isn't an airing of grievances, thats murder. . This was a mob.  They wanted death because they were told the election was a fraud.  They were lied to.  They were told the VP can choose not to certify an election.  They were lied to.  They were told Pence was a traitor.  They were lied to.

It's clear their goal wasn't to air grievances but to stop the certification.  Which is not allowed.

Anyway, it doesn't matter.  Trump doesn't need the lie anymore and I bet that no one will ever be prosecuted nor evidence found of fraud in the 2020 election. 

[Action80]

LD: "hang Pence" is murder.

No, LD.

Words do not equal murder.

And no one is required to certify an election.

You know absolute jack-shit about the US Constitution and Pence is a traitor to the US, along with you and many others.

[Lord Dave]

LD: "hang Pence" is murder.

No, LD.

Words do not equal murder.

And no one is required to certify an election.

You know absolute jack-shit about the US Constitution and Pence is a traitor to the US, along with you and many others.

Threat of murder.


And I suppose you are technically correct.


"The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted."
But then...why did Trump claim Mike Pence could choose not to certify?

[Tom Bishop]

Do the citizens have the constitutional right to threaten the life of the vice-president for doing his constitutionally mandated duty?

Yes, the specific way he was targeted was legitimate. The MAGA narrative is typically to find traitors guilty in a military tribunals and then hang them. Chants of "hang mike pence" are legitimate in the sense that they are calling for the military to hang him on charges of collusion and treason. Similar slogans involve Gitmo and firing squads. Trump also agreed with this chant and stated that "maybe Mr. Pence should be hanged", implying that he would go through a court of justice.

"I am going to hang you" is not legitimate freedom of speech, and I don't believe this was stated.

[AATW]

As barbaric as the US system is in still having the death penalty - something which most advanced civilizations have now moved on from - I didn't think you actually hanged people these days.

[honk]

As barbaric as the US system is in still having the death penalty - something which most advanced civilizations have now moved on from - I didn't think you actually hanged people these days.

We don't, and I think any reasonable person would agree that "Hang Mike Pence" is a threat. Of course they didn't need to explicitly spell out "I am going to hang you" any more than a mugger pointing a gun at someone needs to say "I am going to shoot you" for it to be a threat.

[Action80]

Sadaam rightly recognizes that hanging is no longer a legitimate method of executing convicted persons within the military, yet clings to the idea that a statement uttered by persons outside of the military could be reasonably considered a threat!

COMEDY GOLD!!!

LMMFAO!!!

You can't make this shit up!!!

[honk]

...yeah? You're acting like those two points contradict each other. They don't. Hanging virtually never happens nowadays in this country. And any reasonable person would interpret an angry mob screaming that someone should be hanged as a threat.

[Lord Dave]

They were not going to set him up for a military tribunal (which wouldn't even apply).  And no reasonable person would conclude that the angry mob with their own gallow was really just demanding that he be tried for... Doing what the constitution says he should do.

[markjo]

Do the citizens have the constitutional right to threaten the life of the vice-president for doing his constitutionally mandated duty?

Yes, the specific way he was targeted was legitimate. The MAGA narrative is typically to find traitors guilty in a military tribunals and then hang them. Chants of "hang mike pence" are legitimate in the sense that they are calling for the military to hang him on charges of collusion and treason.

What makes you think that the mob had any intention of waiting for a military tribunal to convict Pence before hanging him?  Seems to me that they were ready for some good old fashioned vigilante justice.

[Action80]

LD thinks the mob had a working gallows on site!

MORE COMEDY GOLD!!!

LMMFAO!!!

You can't make this shit up!!!

[markjo]

LD thinks the mob had a working gallows on site!

MORE COMEDY GOLD!!!

LMMFAO!!!

Close enough for mob justice,

You can't make this shit up!!!

You keep saying that.  You must not have much of an imagination,

[Tom Bishop]

The Gallows were non-functional and too small for expected use. However, the fact that people arrived there in the early hours, built it, and it was left standing through the day on the Capitol grounds is further evidence of a set up.

See: https://cha.house.gov/2024/2/chairman-barry-loudermilk-releases-new-information-in-the-january-6-2021-gallows-investigation

The House investigated the gallows and remarks that it was odd that a team of people  people arrived early to build it and that it was not immediately taken down by police. Constructions of this nature are not allowed, and the perpetrators were never found.

[honk]

A reasonable person wouldn't think that the presence of a gallows in front of the Capitol meant that it was permissible to storm the building as part of an angry mob and to smash windows and break down doors while screaming for the blood of the politicians you hate in an attempt to stop the certification of an election, just like a reasonable person wouldn't think that a couple of cops not actively fighting dozens of angry protesters or even opening one or two doors for them meant that it was permissible to storm the building as part of an angry mob and to smash windows and break down doors while screaming for the blood of the politicians you hate in an attempt to stop the certification of an election. Even if I agreed that any of this was indicative of complicity on the part of the authorities (which apparently doesn't include Trump), all that would mean is that further blame should be extended towards the authorities. The protesters' actions would in no way be justified or excused by this. They violently tried to stop the certification of an election in an attempt to keep their preferred president in power. Nobody tricked, forced, or coerced them into doing that. The most you could argue is that someone "let" them do it. If a cop puts a loaded gun on a table in front of you, you are still 100% morally and legally guilty of murder if you then grab that gun and use it to kill someone. The cop will face their own consequences for what they've done, but that will have no bearing on your own culpability. That's all this setup argument comes out to. You're insisting that someone put a gun on the table in front of the protesters and therefore it's not the protesters' fault that they then grabbed the gun and shot someone with it.

[Action80]

Sadaam is oh so close, yet so far away in his explanation, it beggars belief!!!

MORE COMEDY GOLD!!!

You can't make this shit up!!!

[Lord Dave]

Pivoting back to present day because Action and Tom are just trolling...




Apparently, freedom of the press isn't a thing, in Trump's opinion.  Especially when they say bad things about him.  Not wrong things, mind you, just bad things.

[Action80]

It isn't trolling according to LD, when a president who has answered over 1500 questions from the press in 57 days, is somehow against freedom of the press.

And that is questions he has personally answered, not even counting the number of press briefings given by his administration!

LMMFAO!!!

MORE COMEDY GOLD!!!

You can't make this shit up!!!

[Action80]

Trump is going to win bigly against CBS very soon and then the rest of these shitbag political commentators, posing as journalists, will STFU.