Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12140 on: February 05, 2025, 05:42:25 PM »
LD raises an interesting point and one I have been thinking about.

When you examine the whole last two years, that is when things really started to ramp up (with lockdowns and the rest of the fucking bullshit, like full-blown takeovers of cities by persons who really, truly, have no need to exist. It was allowed to continue for ??? Maybe it was Trump all along and just a big dog and pony show.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12141 on: February 05, 2025, 06:02:27 PM »
LD raises an interesting point and one I have been thinking about.

When you examine the whole last two years, that is when things really started to ramp up (with lockdowns and the rest of the fucking bullshit, like full-blown takeovers of cities by persons who really, truly, have no need to exist. It was allowed to continue for ??? Maybe it was Trump all along and just a big dog and pony show.

That's just your perception.

All this Fox garbage about 'liberal cities in flames' is bullshit fed to idiots who want to believe it..

No cops were killed in the Minneapolis riots and Trump was going to send in federal troops. His army of Appalachian orcs attacks our capital, ransacks the building, injures and kills cops but he calls them 'heroes' and wants let them out of prison so they can attack us again.

In other news, the orange idiot just let Lex Luthor and his henchmen into the government computers.
https://www.vox.com/politics/398366/musk-doge-treasury-sba-opm-budget



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Re: Trump
« Reply #12142 on: February 05, 2025, 07:02:32 PM »
Since the President is clearly above the powers of other branches a more accurate statement is that he provides the permission for his actions. The President is the check against the other branches, not vice-versa. You guys have that backwards.

Another example is the recent "TikTok ban". It was passed legally by Congress and upheld by the Supreme Court. TikTok went offline for a while and then it was brought back online by internet telecommunication companies after declarations from Trump. Trump issued statements and an EO that he will put the orders for the TikTok ban on pause and not uphold it, demonstrating that he is above those powers and can simply ignore the orders.

The best Congress can do is impeach him and give him that label, but whether they have the power to actually forcefully remove him against his will is in debate since it has never been done and the President has an encompassing enforcement power that nullifies other branches. In fact, the article I posted a couple of posts back says that he can overturn or overthrow Congress in his official capacity without fear of arrest. It is interesting to speculate about the limits of the President's vast power, but it is nonetheless very clear that he is incredibly powerful in likeness to a king.


As a UK citizen it's not my speciallist subject, but the Supreme Court seems to believe that the Judicial Branch determines what powers the President can employ. 

https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/constitutional.aspx#:~:text=When%20the%20Supreme%20Court%20rules,legislative%20action%20can%20be%20taken.

Quote:

"The complex role of the Supreme Court in this system derives from its authority to invalidate legislation or executive actions which, in the Court’s considered judgment, conflict with the Constitution. This power of "judicial review" has given the Court a crucial responsibility in assuring individual rights, as well as in maintaining a "living Constitution" whose broad provisions are continually applied to complicated new situations".  (My bold). 

Fully agree on the concept that a constitutionally-powerful president can make all the difference to national success e.g. Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Lukashenko, Saddam, Mugabe. 

Of course, to quote another powerful president, Mao Zedong, real power comes from the barrel of a gun, so if you can get enoough guns on-message the Supreme Court can go suck.  But that would be Insurrection, wouldn't it? 


Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12143 on: February 05, 2025, 07:50:54 PM »
LD raises an interesting point and one I have been thinking about.

When you examine the whole last two years, that is when things really started to ramp up (with lockdowns and the rest of the fucking bullshit, like full-blown takeovers of cities by persons who really, truly, have no need to exist. It was allowed to continue for ??? Maybe it was Trump all along and just a big dog and pony show.

That's just your perception.
Oh yes, how silly of me...I just imagined all of the city takeovers and the lockdowns... ::)
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12144 on: February 05, 2025, 08:46:21 PM »
Oh yes, how silly of me...I just imagined all of the city takeovers and the lockdowns... ::)

Seriously, what are you talking about?
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Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12145 on: February 05, 2025, 09:39:37 PM »
Have you lost the plot?

You were so confidently writing how in touch you are.
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Offline markjo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12146 on: February 06, 2025, 01:06:46 AM »
If the US President can murder a US Citizen then he obviously has great king-like power. The president is at the seat of power which executes justice, and the Supreme Court has ruled that he is therefore above the law, just as a king is. If he breaks some law in actions, it doesn't matter. Since he himself is responsible for enforcing the law, the laws do not apply to him.
But does that insulate the president from impeachment?  There is the notion that you can't (or, at least, shouldn't) enforce the law by breaking the law.

I know that impeachment isn't likely this term, but we do have the mid-term elections before too long, and party leadership has been known to flip during those elections.

The President is the country's Commander in Chief, and is an executor of justice above the law, very similar to the role of a medieval king. The courts can make laws, but they don't apply to him. The courts are therefore inferior entities meant for normal citizens, not the President who is superior.
The courts don't make laws at all.  They interpret laws to determine if they are valid and if they apply to individual cases.  Congress makes the laws and the executive branch enforces those laws. 

You guys will have a tough time doing anything against Donald Trump, so it's probably best to quit whining about it.
Well, we can always hope that he dies peacefully in his sleep before too long.
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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12147 on: February 06, 2025, 03:27:43 AM »
Then why does the President have the power to assassinate US Citizens at will?

That's a dubious piece of hyperbole, but even if we assume it to be true, there's an easy answer - because the Supreme Court, the body representing the judicial branch of government, chose to allow him to. They didn't have to. They could have - and, needless to say, absolutely should have - ruled against him, and if they had, Trump couldn't have done anything about it, just as Biden couldn't do anything about them ruling in Trump's favor. Like Congress, the Supreme Court has a number of ways to check Trump's power, and also like Congress, they're refusing to use them.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12148 on: February 06, 2025, 07:00:22 AM »
This is the best thing Trump has done since he has been in office.

To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12149 on: February 06, 2025, 07:37:37 AM »
This is the best thing Trump has done since he has been in office.


But not men's sports?

Also, how does the president have authority to control sporting association rules?  What, can he ban women's sports next?  Maybe ban mixed sports?
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

Re: Trump
« Reply #12150 on: February 06, 2025, 08:02:48 AM »
This is the best thing Trump has done since he has been in office.


But not men's sports?

Also, how does the president have authority to control sporting association rules?  What, can he ban women's sports next?  Maybe ban mixed sports?
If he banned mental Olympics, the flat eathers would be very upset.

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12151 on: February 06, 2025, 08:39:41 AM »
Trump banned no sports and he doesn't need to protect men's sports, as men within the human species are the protectors.

Trump does not exercise executive power over sporting associations, but he does exercise executive power within the United States and sporting associations, schools, etc., within the US can still do as they wish, but will no longer receive federal funding if they allow any trans-identifying persons to participate in women's sports.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2025, 09:16:37 AM by Action80 »
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12152 on: February 06, 2025, 09:22:57 AM »
Trump banned no sports and he doesn't need to protect men's sports, as men within the human species are the protectors.

Trump does not exercise executive power over sporting associations, but he does exercise executive power within the United States and sporting associations, schools, etc., within the US can still do as they wish, but will no longer receive federal funding if they allow any trans-identifying persons to participate in women's sports.

Oh, only federal funding?
That's fine then.  The headline made it sound like he just banned it period not "no federal finding if you..."
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12153 on: February 06, 2025, 09:32:30 AM »
You can read the entire order here. The issue is over Title IX.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2025, 09:34:01 AM by Action80 »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12154 on: February 06, 2025, 09:38:02 AM »
But does that insulate the president from impeachment?  There is the notion that you can't (or, at least, shouldn't) enforce the law by breaking the law.

Impeachment is an internal process that provides the label of "impeached", and it is not clear that Congress can actually take the next step and use it to enforce an order to remove a President, considering that in practice they can't actually enforce anything they order if the executive branch disagrees.

If I am a military general and I am reading that Congressional orders and laws can and are often ignored by the President as regular practice, and that the President has the power to overthrow Congress at will without fear of arrest, it would be clear to me that the ultimate power is with the President and not Congress. The removal order is going into the trash.

Quote from: markjo
The courts don't make laws at all.  They interpret laws to determine if they are valid and if they apply to individual cases.  Congress makes the laws and the executive branch enforces those laws.

The courts do create laws, which is how "right to privacy" turned into "abortion for all". This knowledge is at our fingertips. We can simply ask our friend Google AI.

> do the courts create laws

Google AI: Yes, courts create law in the United States, but they do so by interpreting existing laws and the Constitution. This process is called judicial review.

Quote from: honk
That's a dubious piece of hyperbole, but even if we assume it to be true, there's an easy answer - because the Supreme Court, the body representing the judicial branch of government, chose to allow him to. They didn't have to. They could have - and, needless to say, absolutely should have - ruled against him, and if they had, Trump couldn't have done anything about it, just as Biden couldn't do anything about them ruling in Trump's favor. Like Congress, the Supreme Court has a number of ways to check Trump's power, and also like Congress, they're refusing to use them.

The main reason that the President can be interpreted to be above the law is because the founders of the United States
didn't create anything truly original and just fixed what was there, which is the logical thing to do when something is broken. They adopted large parts of the the English system of government and gave the President the powers and role of the King, with modification that it was an elected King. In traditional and medieval monarchies the King embodies the law. The law flows through the monarch and spreads over his realm. The King could not break the law because he was the law.

Similar language that the US President embodies the law is apparent, and in 246 years of practice the President has been able to ignore and nullify orders and laws issued by the courts and Congress, demonstrating that he is genuinely above the law.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2025, 01:51:04 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12155 on: February 06, 2025, 11:04:47 AM »
You can read the entire order here. The issue is over Title IX.
Well... Since we're all female or non-gender by the order....


And before you think me insane, Tell me how you will determine which sex cell is produced by a fertilized egg at conception?
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12156 on: February 06, 2025, 11:09:25 AM »
LD, if you think any of the questions (or position) you raised are pertinent to this order, I urge you to contact someone (or, even yourself) to take it in front of a court and have them examine your questions in light of the EO.

I know what I think, but that does not matter. I will say I do not see where the order says we, "are all female or non-gender." I will also say I do not see anything in the order dealing with issues related to conception.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2025, 11:14:39 AM by Action80 »
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12157 on: February 06, 2025, 11:20:50 AM »
LD, if you think any of the questions (or position) you raised are pertinent to this order, I urge you to contact someone (or, even yourself) to take it in front of a court and have them examine your questions in light of the EO.

I know what I think, but that does not matter. I will say I do not see where the order says we, "are all female or non-gender." I will also say I do not see anything in the order dealing with issues related to conception.

Sec. 2.  Definitions.  The definitions in Executive Order 14168 of January 20, 2025 (Defending Women from Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth to the Federal Government), shall apply to this order.


That part.  Because ya gotta define a woman to define who can be in women's sports.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12158 on: February 06, 2025, 11:24:08 AM »
I see.

Well, how do biologists determine those definitions?

I am not a biologist.

I do see this definitions for men and women:

(b) “Women” or “woman” and “girls” or “girl” shall mean adult and juvenile human females, respectively.

(c) “Men” or “man” and “boys” or “boy” shall mean adult and juvenile human males, respectively.

Anything not matching those two definitions can have their own, individual category.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2025, 11:26:44 AM by Action80 »
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #12159 on: February 06, 2025, 11:36:06 AM »
I see.

Well, how do biologists determine those definitions?

I am not a biologist.

I do see this definitions for men and women:

(b) “Women” or “woman” and “girls” or “girl” shall mean adult and juvenile human females, respectively.

(c) “Men” or “man” and “boys” or “boy” shall mean adult and juvenile human males, respectively.

Anything not matching those two definitions can have their own, individual category.
It varies but generally speaking females give birth or lay eggs.  Males provide genetic material.

This only applies to biology and not society, however.  Social gender identity is not the same.

The problem is that the wording is "At conception".  Which is impossible to determine via DNA and, at conception, no reproductive cells are made.  No sex organs even exist.  So the order doesn't make sense from a biological perspective.

The potential is there tho anyone whose intersex will tell you that conception means nothing if something goes wrong elsewhere in the process between conception and puberty.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.