Re: Trump
« Reply #4800 on: February 01, 2020, 11:48:12 AM »
Wow.

So much written nonsense.

Trump has the authority to defer, recess, withhold any foreign aid he deems fit.
Please quote the law and or document that gives him that right?  The law I posted very clearly does NOT give him the right to defer, recess, or withhold foreign aid as he deems fit.  In fact, the CONSTITUTION gives Congress the power of the Purse, not the President.
One, the Impoundment Control Act actually deals with the requirements of reporting when the President makes a decision to withhold foreign aid.
Half right.  It is the rules stating how to proceed when a president determiens that money allocated by congress is not needed for the project it's set for.  It is quite clear that the President does not have the authority to canel the items outright or delay them as he see's fit but rather must make the request to do so to Congress and the law outlines how to do that.  You HAVE read it, yes?

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If the President cannot make such a decision, as you are claiming, then why write an act requiring reports to Congress when he does?
Deciding to do something and being allowed to do it are not the same thing.  Example:
You will be perminately banned from both forums.  I have decided.

I do not have the power to actually do it though.  But I have decided!  The act, quite simply, is the procedure on what to do after the president makes the decision (and there are restrictions on the reasons).  He can't actually block or deallocate the money himself, but he can petition congress to do so.  Which is what the law says.

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But, just to sugar your crow:

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2010-title22/html/USCODE-2010-title22-chap32-subchapIII-partI-sec2370.htm

And the phrase, "deems fit," means to meet the standards justifying such delay or withholding.

Not willy-nilly.
You know, I did a search for Deem, Deems, and fit and could not find that phrase at all.  Be a dear and actually quote the area it's in?  Because most of what that reads is restrictions on foreign aid to communist nations.

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The Executive Directives mentioned and codified in the law specifically delineate who has the authority and the responsibility to report such actions.
Sure.  It gives the OMB the power to report any deferrment requests as well as reasons and facts as to why.  Again, why did they not do it?  WAs it because Trump ordered it?
The OMB did file the required reports.

Get your facts straight.
Did they?  With all the relevant facts? 
 
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Your argument is totally ridiculous...but let's just assume you are right.

I urge you to write the House Impeachment Managers forthwith, without haste, and notify them of this earth shattering news you put forth here!
They already know, genius.  Where do you think we got the law from?
What law?

The House managers didn't name any law that was broken, including the Impoundment Control Act.

Breaking the law constitutes a crime. 

The House didn't incorporate a specific law that was broken because...wait for it...

No law was broken.
The GAO did.
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/16/796800125/read-the-report-to-congress-about-how-trump-broke-budget-law-on-ukraine

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Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974, Pub. L. No. 93-344, title X, § 1015, 88 Stat. 297, 336 (July 12, 1974), codified at 2 U.S.C. § 686. As explained below, we conclude that OMB withheld the funds from obligation for an unauthorized reason in violation of the ICA. 1 See 2 U.S.C. § 684.

Again, for your reading because you can't seem to read.  These are the valid reasons for deferring payments:
(1) to provide for contingencies;
(2) to achieve savings made possible by or through changes in requirements or greater efficiency of operations; or
(3) as specifically provided by law.

The reason he gave was re-evaluating policy.  Which is not a valid reason according to the law.  So not only did he do what he wasn't allowed to do, but he did it for a reason he wasn't allowed to do it for.

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As an additional aside, you have gone back and forth several times about what the specific issues could possibly be with the Impoundment Control Act, even denying issues with reporting.

Here you are:
"1. The issue is not about reports not being filed."

But now, you pick that glove back up...

You are all over the place!

Nothing you have written supports any sort of violations and has been thoroughly debunked.

Don't believe me?

Write any lawyer.
I'm honestly just responding to you.  YOU started with the report bit.  I never mentioned it.  Junker, in fact, pointed out the law before I could. 

And while I do know several Lawyers, I am not wasting their time by trying to win an argument with some cocky corrections employee who wrote a few rules and thinks he's a lawyer.  Bet you have your constitutional law degree just lying around but you won't show it, huh? 

Anyway, I am still waiting for you to explain Section 684(b) and why that is not valid in this case.
The Executive Directives I already pointed to are now legally incorporated and codified into the Impoundment Control Act.

If you read them, they specifically address Section 684(b) and reporting requirements.

Really, talk to your lawyer friends.

ETA:

Finally, everyone here must consider this.

The President of the United States has the sole power under the US Constitution to decide whether or not the United States actually recognizes the existence of any country.

Essentially, this mean the US House can vote to provide foreign aid to any country, and the President, after a certain period of time, decides, "Nah, the country as we once knew it, actually exists no longer."

That's all fact.
Oh, has Trump decided to not acknolwledge the existence of Ukraine?  That's news to me.
You need to do a search on corruption.

That word is in the Foreign Aid codes.

That puts an end to the discussion .

Tale of the tape:

Many lawyers serving in the US House who wrote the 2 Impeachment articles and totallackey clearly state no laws broken = +1.

Lorddave failing to understand and simply relying on opinion= 0.

This was all a power play to maintain the illusion of differences in the two parties in the US.

Trump was, and remains, a lifelong Democrat.

There truly is no more Republican party.
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4801 on: February 01, 2020, 05:36:23 PM »
Weird how the allegedly corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor Shokin never got charged with anything related to corruption.

It's almost like he's not corrupt.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4802 on: February 02, 2020, 02:02:12 PM »
Weird how the allegedly corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor Shokin never got charged with anything related to corruption.

It's almost like he's not corrupt.

Do you need to break the law to be corrupt?
Ex: A doctor has a frank discussion about a specific medication with the pharmaphudical sales representative, over dinner, on his yacht, in the carribean.  Illegal?  No.  Corrupt?  Probably.

Trump, using his power as president to boost the profits of his hotels and clubs.  Illegal, no.  Corrupt, yes.

Re: Trump
« Reply #4803 on: February 02, 2020, 02:50:29 PM »
Weird how the allegedly corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor Shokin never got charged with anything related to corruption.

It's almost like he's not corrupt.

Do you need to break the law to be corrupt?
Ex: A doctor has a frank discussion about a specific medication with the pharmaphudical sales representative, over dinner, on his yacht, in the carribean.  Illegal?  No.  Corrupt?  Probably.

Trump, using his power as president to boost the profits of his hotels and clubs.  Illegal, no.  Corrupt, yes.
Trump has lost net worth while president.

Where are you getting your information from?
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4804 on: February 02, 2020, 03:14:15 PM »
Trump’s personal net worth is likely separate from the profits of his hotels and casinos.

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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4805 on: February 02, 2020, 04:36:33 PM »
We can't say anything for sure about the overall state of Trump's finances, because he has pointedly refused to do what every other president since Ford has done and release his tax returns. All we can really go by are his actions since he's taken office, and there's a clear pattern of him flogging his own properties, advertising them as venues for access to him, requiring agencies like the Secret Service to use them, and so on. Whether or not Trump has profited overall since taking office isn't really the point. You can be corrupt without actually being good at it, and Trump bungling his attempts to profit from the presidency is entirely in character for him.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4806 on: February 02, 2020, 05:01:19 PM »
Weird how the allegedly corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor Shokin never got charged with anything related to corruption.

It's almost like he's not corrupt.

Do you need to break the law to be corrupt?
Ex: A doctor has a frank discussion about a specific medication with the pharmaphudical sales representative, over dinner, on his yacht, in the carribean.  Illegal?  No.  Corrupt?  Probably.

Trump, using his power as president to boost the profits of his hotels and clubs.  Illegal, no.  Corrupt, yes.
Trump has lost net worth while president.

Where are you getting your information from?

And you know this.... How?
Have you seen his tax returns?

Now granted, he went from (whatever income) to $1/year as President so his personal income, separate from his business, essentially makes him poor.  But since we have never seen his taxes, its all speculation.  He could be raking in millions from speaking engagements, like Obama did.  The fact that YOU know makes me wonder how you know.

Re: Trump
« Reply #4807 on: February 03, 2020, 01:37:28 PM »
Weird how the allegedly corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor Shokin never got charged with anything related to corruption.

It's almost like he's not corrupt.

Do you need to break the law to be corrupt?
Ex: A doctor has a frank discussion about a specific medication with the pharmaphudical sales representative, over dinner, on his yacht, in the carribean.  Illegal?  No.  Corrupt?  Probably.

Trump, using his power as president to boost the profits of his hotels and clubs.  Illegal, no.  Corrupt, yes.
Trump has lost net worth while president.

Where are you getting your information from?

And you know this.... How?
Have you seen his tax returns?

Now granted, he went from (whatever income) to $1/year as President so his personal income, separate from his business, essentially makes him poor.  But since we have never seen his taxes, its all speculation.  He could be raking in millions from speaking engagements, like Obama did.  The fact that YOU know makes me wonder how you know.
Don't need to see his tax returns.

Tax returns, like so much other fluff, became a cheap political talking point.

Fact is, read any source.

Net worth is down.

Find one that states it is up.

I will retract, including the words "LORDDAVE IS RIGHT!"
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4808 on: February 03, 2020, 03:26:48 PM »

Re: Trump
« Reply #4809 on: February 03, 2020, 04:05:18 PM »
It went up last year, returning it to pre-presedential levels: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-12/trump-s-net-worth-rises-to-3-billion-despite-business-setbacks

"LORDDAVE IS RIGHT (according to the notorious napoleon little mike)!"

Lorddave is wrong according to Forbes.
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4810 on: February 03, 2020, 06:56:01 PM »
It went up last year, returning it to pre-presedential levels: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-12/trump-s-net-worth-rises-to-3-billion-despite-business-setbacks

"LORDDAVE IS RIGHT (according to the notorious napoleon little mike)!"

Lorddave is wrong according to Forbes.

Glad to see you arent a sore loser.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4811 on: February 03, 2020, 07:37:01 PM »
Don't need to see his tax returns.

Tax returns, like so much other fluff, became a cheap political talking point.

Fact is, read any source.

Net worth is down.

Find one that states it is up.

I will retract, including the words "LORDDAVE IS RIGHT!"

Do... do you do this intentionally or do you just not know the difference between profit and net worth?

For one, I never mentioned his net worth.  I mentioned his personal income (Like a pay check) and company profits.
If his hotel loses or gains worth due to capitalist forces, it doesn't change the facts of if his hotel is making $1.5 million in profits or $700,000. 

I also said "Boosting his company profits" which does not mean he doesn't loose money.

If I stand to loose $500,000 in profit, but "boost" it $400,000, I'm still losing money, just not as much.  I don't know what Trump Corp.'s profits are or it's finanical situation.  All I know is that the President is going to his own clubs to golf (often), which requires the US Tax payer to pay HIS COMPANY for the food, lodging, and any other fees associated with housing the security detail the president has, even if Trump himself eats for free.  Not to mention the "Join our club and maybe you'll meet the president" mentality that is basically there right now.  I mean, Trump has open discussions on classified information in the god damn open dining hall.  So if you've got the cash, you can meet the president on the golf course.

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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4812 on: February 04, 2020, 06:07:44 AM »
Don't need to see his tax returns.

Tax returns, like so much other fluff, became a cheap political talking point.

Fact is, read any source.

Net worth is down.

Find one that states it is up.

I will retract, including the words "LORDDAVE IS RIGHT!"

Why are you so fixated on his net worth? Do you think that the alleged claim here - Trump using his office to bolster his properties and usher more business and revenue their way - only meets the definition of corruption if at the end of the day, his overall net worth has increased?
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4813 on: February 04, 2020, 06:15:59 AM »
Don't need to see his tax returns.

Tax returns, like so much other fluff, became a cheap political talking point.

Fact is, read any source.

Net worth is down.

Find one that states it is up.

I will retract, including the words "LORDDAVE IS RIGHT!"

Why are you so fixated on his net worth? Do you think that the alleged claim here - Trump using his office to bolster his properties and usher more business and revenue their way - only meets the definition of corruption if at the end of the day, his overall net worth has increased?

Well, considering he thinks asking to investigate a political rival is only corruption if the investigation finds nothing...

Re: Trump
« Reply #4814 on: February 04, 2020, 11:59:51 AM »
Don't need to see his tax returns.

Tax returns, like so much other fluff, became a cheap political talking point.

Fact is, read any source.

Net worth is down.

Find one that states it is up.

I will retract, including the words "LORDDAVE IS RIGHT!"

Do... do you do this intentionally or do you just not know the difference between profit and net worth?
Yeah, I know the difference.
For one, I never mentioned his net worth.  I mentioned his personal income (Like a pay check) and company profits.
I looked and you didn't even mention personal income.

His sole paycheck is actually redirected.

He doesn't collect a penny.

His company profits?

Crain's reports profitability is down.
If his hotel loses or gains worth due to capitalist forces, it doesn't change the facts of if his hotel is making $1.5 million in profits or $700,000. 

I also said "Boosting his company profits" which does not mean he doesn't loose money.

If I stand to loose $500,000 in profit, but "boost" it $400,000, I'm still losing money, just not as much.  I don't know what Trump Corp.'s profits are or it's finanical situation.  All I know is that the President is going to his own clubs to golf (often), which requires the US Tax payer to pay HIS COMPANY for the food, lodging, and any other fees associated with housing the security detail the president has, even if Trump himself eats for free.  Not to mention the "Join our club and maybe you'll meet the president" mentality that is basically there right now.  I mean, Trump has open discussions on classified information in the god damn open dining hall.  So if you've got the cash, you can meet the president on the golf course.
The President has accomplished nearly all of his fundamentally Democratic policy platform and deserves his leisure time.

I don't know why you got a problem with that.
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4815 on: February 04, 2020, 09:24:53 PM »
Don't need to see his tax returns.

Tax returns, like so much other fluff, became a cheap political talking point.

Fact is, read any source.

Net worth is down.

Find one that states it is up.

I will retract, including the words "LORDDAVE IS RIGHT!"

Do... do you do this intentionally or do you just not know the difference between profit and net worth?
Yeah, I know the difference.
For one, I never mentioned his net worth.  I mentioned his personal income (Like a pay check) and company profits.
I looked and you didn't even mention personal income.
You're right, I didn't.  I mentioned company profits only.  Which makes your comment make even less sense.  His net worth has nothing to do with his company's profits.

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His sole paycheck is actually redirected.

He doesn't collect a penny.
This is actually illegal and false.  He collects $1, which is the minimum amount a president can make.  So yeah, he's in poverty by definition, unless he has other income.

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His company profits?

Crain's reports profitability is down.
I've no doubt.  But how much lower would they be if Trump didn't golf at his own club?  Boosting profits does not mean you aren't lower than you were, just means you aren't as low as you could be.

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If his hotel loses or gains worth due to capitalist forces, it doesn't change the facts of if his hotel is making $1.5 million in profits or $700,000. 

I also said "Boosting his company profits" which does not mean he doesn't loose money.

If I stand to loose $500,000 in profit, but "boost" it $400,000, I'm still losing money, just not as much.  I don't know what Trump Corp.'s profits are or it's finanical situation.  All I know is that the President is going to his own clubs to golf (often), which requires the US Tax payer to pay HIS COMPANY for the food, lodging, and any other fees associated with housing the security detail the president has, even if Trump himself eats for free.  Not to mention the "Join our club and maybe you'll meet the president" mentality that is basically there right now.  I mean, Trump has open discussions on classified information in the god damn open dining hall.  So if you've got the cash, you can meet the president on the golf course.
The President has accomplished nearly all of his fundamentally Democratic policy platform and deserves his leisure time.

I don't know why you got a problem with that.
Oh I've no issues with him taking leisure time.  (despite him spending ALOT! ) My issue is that he's basically having us pay him.

So you pay taxes. 
That money (some of it) goes to the secret service.  They follow Trump around and must pay for things that he uses so they can follow.  So if trump goes to Disney, every agent that follows needs to buy a ticket in.  Same for his clubs.  This includes rental fees, lodging, food, etc...

So .... $$Tax$$ -> Government -> Secret Service -> Mar a Lago -> Trump Profits -> Trump.

In essence, the more Trump golfs, the more money his clubs make, which means the more money HE gets.  (assuming he still collects money from his business either directly or in the form of future payments after he's out of office).  Kinda nice being able to get money from tax payers just by having liesure time.

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Offline Boots

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4816 on: February 05, 2020, 01:28:08 AM »
He doesn't collect a penny.
This is false.  He collects $1

This thread rn. lol
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 01:29:42 AM by Boots »
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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4817 on: February 05, 2020, 04:13:43 AM »
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-awards-rush-limbaugh-medal-freedom-during-sotu-prompting-moans-dems-standing-ovation-1485744

Rush Limbaugh has never contributed anything of value to the national discourse, and in fact has done an enormous amount of damage. He is a crude, boorish, borderline-racist bully and a liar, and has been for his entire radio career. At least Bill Maher has a brain under his sleaze and narcissism. At least Stephen Colbert brings some charm and class to his political comedy. At least John Oliver's tired, overly-long gags had good intentions behind them. Limbaugh has none of that. He's just a dumb, obnoxious asshole belching out insults and sneering hot takes, and somehow this became popular enough to spawn a wave of imitators and relaunch the entire genre of conservative talk radio. It makes sense that Trump would frivolously give him this medal.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4818 on: February 05, 2020, 04:26:21 AM »
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-awards-rush-limbaugh-medal-freedom-during-sotu-prompting-moans-dems-standing-ovation-1485744

Rush Limbaugh has never contributed anything of value to the national discourse, and in fact has done an enormous amount of damage. He is a crude, boorish, borderline-racist bully and a liar, and has been for his entire radio career. At least Bill Maher has a brain under his sleaze and narcissism. At least Stephen Colbert brings some charm and class to his political comedy. At least John Oliver's tired, overly-long gags had good intentions behind them. Limbaugh has none of that. He's just a dumb, obnoxious asshole belching out insults and sneering hot takes, and somehow this became popular enough to spawn a wave of imitators and relaunch the entire genre of conservative talk radio. It makes sense that Trump would frivolously give him this medal.

He needs something because Rush is gonna die soon.  Advanced lung cancer.

Re: Trump
« Reply #4819 on: February 05, 2020, 11:58:03 AM »
Don't need to see his tax returns.

Tax returns, like so much other fluff, became a cheap political talking point.

Fact is, read any source.

Net worth is down.

Find one that states it is up.

I will retract, including the words "LORDDAVE IS RIGHT!"

Do... do you do this intentionally or do you just not know the difference between profit and net worth?
Yeah, I know the difference.
For one, I never mentioned his net worth.  I mentioned his personal income (Like a pay check) and company profits.
I looked and you didn't even mention personal income.
You're right, I didn't.  I mentioned company profits only.  Which makes your comment make even less sense.  His net worth has nothing to do with his company's profits.

Quote
His sole paycheck is actually redirected.

He doesn't collect a penny.
This is actually illegal and false.  He collects $1, which is the minimum amount a president can make.  So yeah, he's in poverty by definition, unless he has other income.

Quote
His company profits?

Crain's reports profitability is down.
I've no doubt.  But how much lower would they be if Trump didn't golf at his own club?  Boosting profits does not mean you aren't lower than you were, just means you aren't as low as you could be.

Quote
If his hotel loses or gains worth due to capitalist forces, it doesn't change the facts of if his hotel is making $1.5 million in profits or $700,000. 

I also said "Boosting his company profits" which does not mean he doesn't loose money.

If I stand to loose $500,000 in profit, but "boost" it $400,000, I'm still losing money, just not as much.  I don't know what Trump Corp.'s profits are or it's finanical situation.  All I know is that the President is going to his own clubs to golf (often), which requires the US Tax payer to pay HIS COMPANY for the food, lodging, and any other fees associated with housing the security detail the president has, even if Trump himself eats for free.  Not to mention the "Join our club and maybe you'll meet the president" mentality that is basically there right now.  I mean, Trump has open discussions on classified information in the god damn open dining hall.  So if you've got the cash, you can meet the president on the golf course.
The President has accomplished nearly all of his fundamentally Democratic policy platform and deserves his leisure time.

I don't know why you got a problem with that.
Oh I've no issues with him taking leisure time.  (despite him spending ALOT! ) My issue is that he's basically having us pay him.

So you pay taxes. 
That money (some of it) goes to the secret service.  They follow Trump around and must pay for things that he uses so they can follow.  So if trump goes to Disney, every agent that follows needs to buy a ticket in.  Same for his clubs.  This includes rental fees, lodging, food, etc...

So .... $$Tax$$ -> Government -> Secret Service -> Mar a Lago -> Trump Profits -> Trump.

In essence, the more Trump golfs, the more money his clubs make, which means the more money HE gets.  (assuming he still collects money from his business either directly or in the form of future payments after he's out of office).  Kinda nice being able to get money from tax payers just by having liesure time.
Is your ultimate goal for everyone to be in the shitter?

Asking for a friend...

I mean, really...a lot of you guys cheering on for a recession, doom and gloom, woe is me...

Makes everyone to yell out, "STOP THAT TRAIN!!! I WANT A RIDE!!!"

LOL!!!

"How to Win Friends and Influence People," by Lorddave...talk about how bad things should be because orange man bad...

Why do you care so much about how much Trump is making, when you should be more concerned (according to you anyway) about your neighbor next door?

I don't recall you here writing about how much Obama pulled in while being President.
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.