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Re: Trump
« Reply #1780 on: June 28, 2017, 03:08:49 PM »
06/26: In light of Trump’s latest Twitter tantrum, I am retracting my claim of Trump not admitting the Russian meddling happened.

...

https://twitter.com/CaitrionaPerry/status/879804904696496128

Ugh.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 01:52:33 PM by honk »
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Re: Trump
« Reply #1781 on: June 28, 2017, 03:25:12 PM »
hold the phone everyone.  a cnn producer has confirmed that cnn chases ratings.

IT'S HAPPENING.

GET. THIS. TO. THE. TOP.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #1782 on: June 28, 2017, 04:42:17 PM »
I'll grant that O'Keefe's latest video doesn't seem to be quite as inherently dishonest as his usual fare, but it's hardly a devastating scandal or exposé. Any organization will have somebody cynical working there who's willing to vent.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #1783 on: June 28, 2017, 04:54:22 PM »
i'm not sure he's even being all that cynical.  all he said was that there's no concrete evidence of any collusion between trump and russia (true), yet cnn pushes the every development because it's what their predominantly liberal viewership wants to hear about (also true). 

which of course has now been twisted into "cnn admits they manufactured the russia story from whole cloth with help from the deep state."
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Re: Trump
« Reply #1784 on: June 28, 2017, 05:29:16 PM »
i'm not sure he's even being all that cynical.  all he said was that there's no concrete evidence of any collusion between trump and russia (true), yet cnn pushes the every development because it's what their predominantly liberal viewership wants to hear about (also true). 

which of course has now been twisted into "cnn admits they manufactured the russia story from whole cloth with help from the deep state."

I wouldn't think there was.

If I were Russia I'd be like...

"Trump's a moron who can't keep off twitter.  Tell him nothing."

Re: Trump
« Reply #1785 on: June 29, 2017, 01:48:32 PM »
I wouldn't think there was.

If I were Russia I'd be like...

"Trump's a moron who can't keep off twitter.  Tell him nothing."

right?

although i'm like 1% convinced that covfefe is a kgb code-word.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #1786 on: June 29, 2017, 03:21:50 PM »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1787 on: June 30, 2017, 01:19:15 AM »
i'm not sure he's even being all that cynical.  all he said was that there's no concrete evidence of any collusion between trump and russia (true), yet cnn pushes the every development because it's what their predominantly liberal viewership wants to hear about (also true). 

which of course has now been twisted into "cnn admits they manufactured the russia story from whole cloth with help from the deep state."

He also said that Trump was right for saying that it was a witch hunt.

http://truthfeed.com/cnn-producer-admits-trump-right-about-russian-witch-hunt-its-bullsht/85720/
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Re: Trump
« Reply #1788 on: June 30, 2017, 03:13:35 AM »
I should have replied to this weeks ago, my mistake:

They are posturing up for a major witch hunt that they only hope drags out until the midterms. Finding anything is secondary to just muddying the waters and trying to build a Trump obstruction of justice case.

A congressional investigation designed to stretch on as long as possible and push a narrative of perpetual scandal rather than genuinely investigate any real issues?

You don't say.

Except that investigation actually found multiple felonies being committed, as well as obstruction of justice. It was Hillary's "intent" that your on again/off again hero/enemy James Comey arbitrarily decided wasn't malicious.

This picture is from the endless Benghazi hearings, not anything to do with the emails issue. I'll concede that Trump is the victim of an unfair partisan vendetta if this investigation is followed by another investigation, which is then followed by another one, which is then followed by yet another one, etc. Also:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/880408582310776832
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/880410114456465411

What a disgusting piece of shit.
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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1789 on: June 30, 2017, 03:33:43 AM »
i'm not sure he's even being all that cynical.  all he said was that there's no concrete evidence of any collusion between trump and russia (true), yet cnn pushes the every development because it's what their predominantly liberal viewership wants to hear about (also true). 

which of course has now been twisted into "cnn admits they manufactured the russia story from whole cloth with help from the deep state."

He also said that Trump was right for saying that it was a witch hunt.

http://truthfeed.com/cnn-producer-admits-trump-right-about-russian-witch-hunt-its-bullsht/85720/

Why is it a big deal that a random producer happens to be conservative and have an opinion in line with that ideology? Most Republicans don't think there's anything to the Russia investigation. Is CNN to be chastised for hiring Republicans?

CNN has said his views don't represent those of the network and that's perfectly reasonable. This is a silly thing to start a controversy over.

Also the guy who made the video is a notorious hoaxster with a history of selective editing. He's no more reliable to present the objective truth than Michael Moore. Just saying.
Go kicking and screaming, lol, it all means the same on January 21st.

Before this is over I'm betting you eat those landslide words :)

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1790 on: June 30, 2017, 03:20:58 PM »
i'm not sure he's even being all that cynical.  all he said was that there's no concrete evidence of any collusion between trump and russia (true), yet cnn pushes the every development because it's what their predominantly liberal viewership wants to hear about (also true). 

which of course has now been twisted into "cnn admits they manufactured the russia story from whole cloth with help from the deep state."

He also said that Trump was right for saying that it was a witch hunt.

http://truthfeed.com/cnn-producer-admits-trump-right-about-russian-witch-hunt-its-bullsht/85720/

Why is it a big deal that a random producer happens to be conservative and have an opinion in line with that ideology? Most Republicans don't think there's anything to the Russia investigation. Is CNN to be chastised for hiring Republicans?

CNN has said his views don't represent those of the network and that's perfectly reasonable. This is a silly thing to start a controversy over.

Because as a high level producer you are included in the board meetings.

Quote
Also the guy who made the video is a notorious hoaxster with a history of selective editing. He's no more reliable to present the objective truth than Michael Moore. Just saying.

An entirely false narrative. Can you show me how he hoaxed or what he selectively edited?

The "hoaxing" and "criminal past" of his solely consisted of going into a government facility under false pretenses and with a false identity for a sting video to expose ACORN corruption. Rather than answering for their bad deeds which were uncovered the focus was shifted towards the persecuting the whistle blower.

The same tactic was used with the Podesta email leaks. Instead of answering for Hillary's shady and corrupt activities, the focus was on "Russia hacked the emails and is interfering with the election!". It is rather pathetic to attack the messenger (or make up an messenger, in that case) to shift blame. The tactic is transparent, too. That is like attacking Edward Snowden for his illegal leaks and ignoring the crimes of the NSA, which some have done.

Do you you really want to be one of those people? Why can't you just accept the loss rather than blaming everyone else?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 03:31:04 PM by Tom Bishop »
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Re: Trump
« Reply #1791 on: June 30, 2017, 03:39:45 PM »
The ACORN video was a hoax. It's not simply that O'Keefe used dishonest methods to find his story, but that the story itself was a lie. Most of his stories over the years have had similar issues with their veracity.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #1792 on: June 30, 2017, 03:46:52 PM »
The ACORN video was a hoax. It's not simply that O'Keefe used dishonest methods to find his story, but that the story itself was a lie. Most of his stories over the years have had similar issues with their veracity.

Exactly. But it's funny that Tom takes what was really an aside in my post and acted like it was my main argument, virtually ignoring the point that this guy's opinion literally means nothing anyway. Tom, you have a real talent for BS, have you ever considered a career in the conservative "news" industry?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 03:50:59 PM by Roundy »
Go kicking and screaming, lol, it all means the same on January 21st.

Before this is over I'm betting you eat those landslide words :)

Another gullible, delusional "Independent" ::)

Re: Trump
« Reply #1793 on: June 30, 2017, 04:37:31 PM »
He also said that Trump was right for saying that it was a witch hunt.

http://truthfeed.com/cnn-producer-admits-trump-right-about-russian-witch-hunt-its-bullsht/85720/

"I just feel like they really don’t have it [proof of collusion] but they want to keep digging. And so I think the president is probably right to say, ‘Look, you are witch hunting me.'"

like i said, there's no proof that trump colluded with russia, yet cnn digs into that story because it's what their liberal viewership wants to hear about.  none of that is news to anyone.

i wonder how many cnn editors the 'interviewer' had to go through before finding one who said what he was looking to get someone to say.  don't you just hate shitty journalism that pushes a political agenda and is accountable to no one?  yeah me too.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #1794 on: June 30, 2017, 04:42:06 PM »
It's ironic how Trump whines about a witch hunt yet he literally did the same thing with Obama's birth certificate.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1795 on: June 30, 2017, 05:26:19 PM »
The ACORN video was a hoax. It's not simply that O'Keefe used dishonest methods to find his story, but that the story itself was a lie. Most of his stories over the years have had similar issues with their veracity.

Did you read the link? Here were his "dishonest methods":

Quote
In the videos, O'Keefe included segments in which he wore a fur coat, top hat, sunglasses, and wielded a cane, giving viewers, including the media, the impression that he had dressed that way when he visited the ACORN offices and spoke to its workers.[27] As part of the deception and distortion of the released videos, O'Keefe added that portion as a lead-in, but he was dressed professionally during his ACORN visits. He never revealed himself on camera in the visits to the ACORN offices.[27]

The article goes on...

Quote
In the Baltimore office, the released video lets viewers hear O'Keefe saying that he and Giles were bringing up thirteen girls from El Salvador "like 15" years of age to live in their house and work as prostitutes "just to get them on their feet so they can do this type of thing."[43] Giles remarks, "they are kind of dependent."[44] Although the Baltimore ACORN staffer pointed out their plans were illegal, after O'Keefe says, "we are going to be putting a roof over [their] head", the ACORN employee states, "well then you know what you can always claim them as dependents."[45] Later, the employee says, "you are gonna use three of them they are gonna be under 16 so you is eligible to get child tax credit and additional child tax credit."[46] When O'Keefe asks, "what if they are going to be making money because they are performing tricks too?" the employee replies, "but if they making money and they are underage, then you shouldn't be letting anybody know anyway."[47] The Baltimore employees were fired by ACORN after the video was released.

In the Washington, D.C., office, Giles and O'Keefe ask about how to account for Giles' anticipated prostitution income on tax forms. Giles asks, "is there a way I can make up two years of tax returns?" The ACORN employee replies, "no you can't make it up", but tells Giles that she could form a business and state that she provides a service.[50] The employee says, "you can have a business. She's not going to put down that she's doing prostitution", and "you don't have to sit back and tell people what it is you do."[51][52] Giles later tells an ACORN employee that she will be giving the money earned from prostitution to O'Keefe. The employee says, "when the police ask you – you don't know where it's coming from."[52][53]

In the Brooklyn office, Giles and O'Keefe tell a loan counselor they want to buy a house, and that an abusive pimp is "aggressively" pursuing Giles. She "wanted to leave because it is scary being subjected to a huge man who has control over your life."[54] The ACORN counselor advises her "you get a tin if [he] is going to come beat you... you get a tin and bury it down in there and you put the money right in and you put grass over it and you don't tell a single soul."[55] When discussing getting a house and Giles' earnings, O'Keefe says that Giles is very honest and an ACORN counselor replies, "honest is not going to get you the house that is why you probably been denied cause you probably going in saying."[56][57] Another stated to Giles, "you can't say what you do for a living."[57] For tax and banking purposes, and to establish a legitimate income and credit history, Giles was told she needed to start saying she was a "freelancer".[57] The ACORN employee also suggested that Giles open two accounts at separate banks, depositing no more than $500 each a week to ensure few eyebrows are raised.[57]

In the San Bernardino office, ACORN employee Tresa Kaelke told O'Keefe and Giles they could classify the underage brothel as a "group home" to avoid detection; she suggested the pair "invest in a line of vitamins" to disguise the location's true purpose.[58] Later, Kaelke stated she believed the activists were joking and made a variety of absurd or joking statements to them.[59][60] She said they were "somewhat entertaining, but they weren't even good actors."[61] Office supervisor Christina Spach said Kaelke "pretended to cooperate with O'Keefe and Giles because she feared for her safety." Kaelke responded to the pair's requests for help setting up a child-prostitution ring on the video by claiming to be an ex-prostitute and exclaiming, "Heidi Fleiss is my hero!"[62] The California Attorney General's investigation of Kaelke determined that "none of her claims" on the video were true, that "she was playing along with what she perceived as a joke", and there was "no evidence she had ever engaged in prostitution."[9] According to CNN, the filmmakers released a transcript of their discussion with Kaelke that included a comment left out of the originally released tape in which Kaelke said that ACORN would have nothing to do with their prostitution business.[63] Kaelke said that her supervisor "would shoot this down faster than a bat out of hell", but advised the couple to conceal the prostitution business by calling it a massage parlor.[58] Kaelke was fired by ACORN after the videos were released.

In the San Diego office, edited video showed ACORN employee Juan Carlos Vera telling O'Keefe he had "contacts" in "Tijuana" to help get underage girls across the border.[64] But, after the discussion with O'Keefe, Vera reported O'Keefe's fabricated plan for human smuggling to police.[65][66][67] Vera was fired for what ACORN called "unacceptable conduct." Vera had said he tried to help the fake prostitute because she said that she needed to escape her controlling pimp.[68] On July 8, 2010, after the AG's Report confirmed that he had contacted the police to try to thwart the couple's smuggling plan, Vera filed a civil suit in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of California against O'Keefe and Giles for recording him without his permission, which was a violation of California law.[69][70] In July 2012, Giles settled the case with Vera, leaving Vera's lawsuit with O'Keefe to move forward.[71]
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 05:51:20 PM by Tom Bishop »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1796 on: June 30, 2017, 06:11:13 PM »
The investigations that followed don't even contradict the message in the videos. Here is what they accuse James O'Keffee of:

Quote
The Attorney General Office criticized O'Keefe for not acting as a journalist trying to objectively report a story from the facts, noting instead that O'Keefe stated he "was out to make a point and to damage ACORN."[9] The report said:

The video releases were heavily edited to feature only the worst or most inappropriate statements of the various ACORN employees and to omit some of the most salient statements by O'Keefe and Giles. Each of the ACORN employees recorded in California was a low level employee whose job was to help the needy individuals who walked in the door seeking assistance. Giles and O'Keefe lied to engender compassion, but then edited their statements from the released videos.[9]

Wow! the video was edited to only feature the worst or most inappropriate statements of various ACORN employees. I guess that makes makes a murderer rapist who only rapes and murders one woman a year, able to withhold from murder-rape for 364 days, a complete saint!

And also, ACORN is totally in the clear because it was all the fault of the corrupt low level employees who rejected the morally-righteous instruction of their good and honest superiors, who themesleves have absolutely no responsibility over their subordinates that are speaking to the public on behalf of the government.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1797 on: June 30, 2017, 06:11:30 PM »
The ACORN video was a hoax. It's not simply that O'Keefe used dishonest methods to find his story, but that the story itself was a lie. Most of his stories over the years have had similar issues with their veracity.

Exactly. But it's funny that Tom takes what was really an aside in my post and acted like it was my main argument, virtually ignoring the point that this guy's opinion literally means nothing anyway. Tom, you have a real talent for BS, have you ever considered a career in the conservative "news" industry?

What happened at ACORN is truly indefensible. Anyone who reads the transcript of what happened, or who has seen videos knows that. Trying to blame the messenger and shift blame is very dishonest, when the ACORN employees are clearly very conspiring to provide government funds to child-prostitution rings and and are giving them advice on how to operate and stay under the radar. The investigations that followed do not deny that.

Come on, can you please do a better job of defending ACORN providing money to child-prostitution rings? Please tell us how the videos were edited or hoaxed and how everything they said is completely moral and above board.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Trump
« Reply #1798 on: June 30, 2017, 06:28:08 PM »
i wonder how many acorn employees told them to fuck off before they finally got the footage they wanted to get.

ACORN employees are clearly very conspiring to provide government funds to child-prostitution rings and and are giving them advice on how to operate and stay under the radar. The investigations that followed do not deny that.

"On September 16, 2009, ACORN suspended advising new clients and initiated an independent review process, headed by Scott Harshbarger, an attorney from the Proskauer Rose firm and a former Massachusetts Attorney General...The independent external investigation found that while some of the counsel given by employees and volunteers was "unprofessional and inappropriate", the videos that had been released appeared to have been edited, "in some cases substantially", and ACORN employees had taken no illegal actions."

"On December 22, 2009, the Congressional Research Service (CRS) released a report on ACORN activities, commissioned by the House Judiciary Committee. It stated that ACORN has not been found to violate any federal regulations in the past five years. The reports other findings included that there were no instances of voter fraud by individuals who were allegedly registered to vote improperly by ACORN or its employees, and no instances where ACORN violated terms of federal funding in the last 5 years."

"The New York Attorney General, Andrew Cuomo, began an investigation on September 15, 2009, to ensure that state grants given to ACORN were properly spent...On March 1, 2010, the District Attorney's office for Brooklyn determined that the videos were "heavily edited" to give a misleading impression, and concluded that there was no criminal wrongdoing by the ACORN Brooklyn staff filmed in the videos. A law enforcement source said, "They edited the tape to meet their agenda.""

"On September 25, 2009, in response to Governor Schwarzenegger's request to investigate the incidents, the California Attorney General's office opened an investigation...The report of the Attorney General Office concluded, "Even if O'Keefe and Giles had truly intended to break the law, there is no evidence that any of the ACORN employees had the intent to aid and abet such criminal conduct or agreed to join in that illegal conduct." While faulting a few of the recorded ACORN members for "terrible judgment and highly inappropriate behavior", the investigation report also concluded that "ACORN could determine that the conduct of its employees in California was inappropriate, but that is an employment matter, which does not rise to the level of a law enforcement or governmental concern". The report determined that the employees did not commit prosecutable crimes in California. Regarding this contrast between the publicity related to the videos and what actually transpired, Attorney General Brown stated, "The evidence illustrates that things are not always as partisan zealots portray them through highly selective editing of reality. Sometimes a fuller truth is found on the cutting room floor.""

"On June 14, 2010, the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) released its findings on ACORN, by then disbanded. It said that there was no evidence that the group, or any of its related organizations, mishandled any of the $40 million in federal money that they had received in recent years."

lol
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 06:35:07 PM by garygreen »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1799 on: June 30, 2017, 06:54:16 PM »
Are you really arguing that because there may be some ACORN employees who did not support child-prostution, that puts the rest of them in the clear? That is a pretty bad argument.

None of the investigations are denying what was said in those offices. None are denying that those ACORN employees were supporting and guiding the criminal business. None of those investigations are denying it. They are calling it an "employee conduct issue". That means THEY ARE ACCEPTING BLAME. The government is merely trying to downplay the scandal.

It is alleged by critics that only the worst footage was shown, and that maybe if James O'Kafee was a little more thorough as a reporter, he would have found that not all of ACORN's employees supported child-prostitution. This is a laughable argument, however, and anyone who dare attempts a defense after seeing the footage is little more than a clown.

If it was a hoax ACORN would not have lost its government funding and shut down because these videos. That much is clear.
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