Re: Trump
« Reply #781 on: February 25, 2017, 11:08:32 AM »
"Which of the following do you think are top priorities for President Trump to accomplish next? Select as many that apply."

> radio buttons

Re: Trump
« Reply #782 on: February 25, 2017, 11:28:17 AM »
"Which of the following do you think are top priorities for President Trump to accomplish next? Select as many that apply."

> radio buttons

I selected fix the VA.  Cause that's the safest one.

Re: Trump
« Reply #783 on: February 25, 2017, 02:26:18 PM »
So my initial reaction to Trump's rollback on trans rights a few days ago was a kind of bleak acceptance, because, y'know, of course. But then today I remembered what he had said back in April of last year and I got mad. Not surprised, but mad.

As a side note, after reading the first article I linked today, I was pleasantly surprised to find out that Betsy DeVos was initially against this decision, even if she did eventually cave. I didn't realize that she's been quietly but consistently pro-LGBT for years.

My posting this is more about the flip-flop than the bathroom issue itself, but in case anyone feels inclined to challenge that the rollback is a problem at all, let me say this: unless you're as adamant about protecting people from sexual assault outside of bathrooms as you are inside of bathrooms, you don't really give a shit about sexual assault and just can't admit that you're uncomfortable with trans people. Also, the narrative that trans people, or people "pretending" to be trans, frequently assault people in bathrooms is a fabrication, and in fact trans people are actually frequently the victim of assault in bathrooms.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #784 on: February 25, 2017, 02:59:36 PM »
The notion that it's about protecting children is ridiculous. Molesting or harassing children is obviously already illegal, regardless of what gender you identify as or what bathroom you happen to be in. There's no connection between legally allowing trans people to use certain bathrooms and suddenly putting children at risk for victimization. Someone who's willing to target children like that isn't going to care what the sign on the bathroom door says.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 03:44:04 PM by honk »
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

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Re: Trump
« Reply #785 on: February 25, 2017, 04:45:21 PM »
But then today I remembered what he had said back in April of last year and I got mad. Not surprised, but mad.
Trans rights is perhaps the one area where Trump's been perfectly consistent through and through. His personal opinion is that people should use whatever bathroom they want. He also ran (and won a mandate) on a platform that suggests it shouldn't be a federal issue. This is something you know about, because we've talked about it in detail back when he said it in the first place, and because it's outright stated in the article you've linked. To claim that this is a flip-flop now is extremely disingenuous.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 04:55:31 PM by SexWarrior »
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Re: Trump
« Reply #786 on: February 25, 2017, 07:05:05 PM »
This is something you know about, because we've talked about it in detail back when he said it in the first place, and because it's outright stated in the article you've linked. To claim that this is a flip-flop now is extremely disingenuous.

Ah, yes, I'm so disingenuous for not remembering the exact contents of a conversation that happened between us almost a year ago, regarding an event I didn't even remember had happened until until three days after a relevant follow-up event when a news article reminded me. I mean, I know I have memory problems, but I'm pretty sure a normal person wouldn't have remembered that either.

But, fair enough with regards to the "shouldn't be a federal issue" thing. To be honest that seems like a convenient veil for "I need to pander to my religious/conservative supporters," but whatever. The rollback is disappointing regardless of its reasoning. I mean, trans people have been using public bathrooms for as long as trans people and public bathrooms have existed, with no harm done. It suddenly becoming a political issue is stupid, on both a state and a federal level.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #787 on: February 25, 2017, 07:23:32 PM »
I'm pretty sure a normal person wouldn't have remembered that either.
It's more that the article you've linked already explains that. You either didn't read it thoroughly before posting (in which case fair enough, I take my accusation back), or you forced that paragraph out of your mindset in order to channel your frustration more effectively.

But, fair enough with regards to the "shouldn't be a federal issue" thing. To be honest that seems like a convenient veil for "I need to pander to my religious/conservative supporters," but whatever.
While that may or may not be the case, this is the platform he ran on. I know it's shocking to see an American politician actually fulfil campaign promises, but hey ho.

I mean, trans people have been using public bathrooms for as long as trans people and public bathrooms have existed, with no harm done.
As far as I understand, the main controversy surrounds people who would face the most stigma if they used the bathroom matching their identity. I strongly doubt that a blatantly male-presenting person could use the ladies' bathroom with "no harm done", be it with Obama's "be tolerant or we'll defund you" guidance or without it.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 07:25:20 PM by SexWarrior »
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Re: Trump
« Reply #788 on: February 25, 2017, 08:38:30 PM »
You either didn't read it thoroughly before posting (in which case fair enough, I take my accusation back), or you forced that paragraph out of your mindset in order to channel your frustration more effectively.

I guess it's a combination of the two; I skimmed for the important bits of information, and seeing how that explanation is completely unsatisfying it didn't stick in my mind as important. Human rights > States' rights, always.

I strongly doubt that a blatantly male-presenting person could use the ladies' bathroom with "no harm done", be it with Obama's "be tolerant or we'll defund you" guidance or without it.

I'm not really sure to what you're referring. This happens?

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Re: Trump
« Reply #789 on: February 25, 2017, 10:12:45 PM »
Human rights > States' rights, always.
The "human rights" element of this debate is extremely nuanced. What you mean is "the self-proclaimed rights of the people I like".

I'm not really sure to what you're referring. This happens?
I don't frequent ladies' bathrooms, so I can't say for sure. I've witnessed the converse on too many occasions, however.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #790 on: February 26, 2017, 12:24:04 AM »
The "human rights" element of this debate is extremely nuanced. What you mean is "the self-proclaimed rights of the people I like".

Are you saying trans people don't deserve certain rights? I'm not being accusatory here, I'm actually asking.

I don't frequent ladies' bathrooms, so I can't say for sure. I've witnessed the converse on too many occasions, however.

Okay... And the harm done was what, exactly? You appear to be unscathed.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #791 on: February 26, 2017, 01:12:05 AM »
Are you saying trans people don't deserve certain rights?
No.

Okay... And the harm done was what, exactly? You appear to be unscathed.
I'm not going to address this strawman.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #792 on: February 26, 2017, 01:21:23 AM »
i am legit confused about what point you're trying to make then lol

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Re: Trump
« Reply #793 on: February 26, 2017, 01:24:14 AM »
i am legit confused about what point you're trying to make then lol
That's because you're trying to twist my words beyond their logical meaning instead of having a discussion.

Let's try this: you say that human rights are more important than states' rights. While that statement is controversial in and of itself, let's accept it at face value for the sake of the discussion. With these assumptions in place, please justify the idea that choosing your bathroom is an inalienable human right.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #794 on: February 26, 2017, 01:34:51 AM »
Therrrre we go, now you've said what you mean, kind of. Thanks.

It's more about the right to safety. Safety from assault (in both bathrooms of one's gender and bathrooms of one's sex, because trans folks do experience harassment and assault in both) and safety from health issues like UTIs that are the result of avoiding public bathrooms altogether.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #795 on: February 26, 2017, 01:53:48 AM »
It's more about the right to safety. Safety from assault (in both bathrooms of one's gender and bathrooms of one's sex, because trans folks do experience harassment and assault in both) and safety from health issues like UTIs that are the result of avoiding public bathrooms altogether.
And this is just one of the areas where the nuance is blatant. Already you've pointed out that either option could be argued as "unsafe". In a way, I agree, and I believe that the Obama administration's "guidance" was doing nothing to address the problem.

All people deserve to be safe, but to claim that a change in the "bathroom laws" will affect anyone's safety is a big stretch. If you're concerned about people being assaulted, then perhaps consider lobbying for either harsher sentences for offenders or more extensive education and rehabilitation. If you believe people frequently develop UTIs due to stigma, then you could in addition lobby for them receiving proper medical and mental health attention.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #796 on: February 26, 2017, 02:11:17 AM »
I would agree that laws allowing people to use the restroom that corresponds with their gender aren't necessary if states and businesses didn't make laws and policies that disallowed trans people to use the restroom that corresponds with their gender. As I said before, trans people have been using public restrooms for as long as trans people and public restrooms have existed. Had North Carolina (there may be an earlier example, I cba to check at the moment) not tried to endanger trans people, then I would definitely find bathroom laws superfluous. But alas, that is not the case.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #797 on: February 26, 2017, 02:31:51 AM »
endanger trans people
Has there been a demonstrable increase in assaults on trans people in North Carolina following the change in legislation?

As I said before, trans people have been using public restrooms for as long as trans people and public restrooms have existed.
And, as you also said, it has not happened with "no harm done" - by your own claim they get assaulted on the regular regardless of which bathroom they use.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #798 on: February 26, 2017, 03:03:48 AM »
And, as you also said, it has not happened with "no harm done" - by your own claim they get assaulted on the regular regardless of which bathroom they use.

w0w0w0w that's some damn logic gymnastics you got goin' on there bud lmao

You know good and well that the argument against allowing trans people in the bathroom that corresponds with their gender is about cis people's safety, not trans people's. It'd be downright delusional to suggest otherwise.

Re: Trump
« Reply #799 on: February 26, 2017, 06:26:02 AM »
The trans people argument about bathrooms is fake.  Know why?  Because when you hear about it, you hear about a man going into the woman's room.  The entire argument is designed to scare fathers into wanting to protect their daughters from predators.  You never hear about protecting sons from the same.


This issue at hand, simply, is the state trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.  Most trans people, I imagine, use the bathroom that will cause them less issues.  So if they can pass as female, they will use the women's room.  If they pass as male, the mens.  And when they can: a gender neutral one.  All regardless of law.  Because if they followed the law in some states, like NC, then a manly looking trans man would have to walk into the woman's room. 








In Trump news, he's skipping the correspondant's dinner.
Also, fox called him out on his BS of banning certain news agencies.  So guess which agency is gonna be labeled fake news next...